Liberate wrote:what exactly does the 3 denotations above say:
"denotes hope in the case of that which is liked or disliked"
...as an opinion
... or doubt
... or certainty
Is this not the definition of maybe? What has changed? Are you taking us for idiots? You have an allah that speaks in the third person using uncertainty narratives but this is supposed to be God.
Are you trying to play games with the meaning of maybe? Do you honestly think we are this gullible?
So this sounds like God to you: The creator of the known universe, when alledgedly speaking as the first person says this:
Maybe (denotes uncertainty) his(third person possessive pronoun) lord...
Being that the answer was already there why ask such a question "Are you honestly trying to tell us maybe doesn't mean maybe in arabic?" when it was right there in front of your face. Your question indciated you didnt know it had such denotations then now you agree to its three denotations
When did I say this?
What on earth makes you think I am unaware that maybe denotes uncertainty?
Why are you trying to put words in my mouth?
You agree that "'asaa" maybe/perhaps denotes " hope in the case of that which is liked or disliked as an opinion, or doubt, or certainty " but then you render it above as (denotes uncertainty) and why not (denotes certainty). You have no clearification on your side to determine if it denotes an opinion, doubt, or certainty. I have shown its mansoob that clearify its denotation as "certainty".
What you have done with the context is say because it says
that in "Maybe his lord if he divorces you
that..." is proof that it denotes certainty, certainty of what? certainty that
maybe allah will grant him virgins
if he divorces his wives? The whole sentence contains two conditional clauses in maybe and if, are you really taking us for idiots?
Let me elaborate on what the problem is:
Maybe [Denoting uncertainty] his lord [third person possessive pronoun but this is from allah as the first person], if [conditional clause] he divorces you that allah will grant him better wives, virgins, obedient, submitters.
Perhaps [Denoting uncertainty] his lord [third person possessive pronoun alledgedly coming from allah as the first person speaker], if [Conditional clause] he divorces you that allah will grant him better wives, virgins, obedient, submitters.
Please apply some logic to the above, and tell me if this sounds like God to you? Would God conduct a conversation as the first person with statements such as:
Maybe his lord will do it if he divorces you...
Liberate wrote:Does it not occur to you then that allah has failed in sending his message to mankind, when 90%+ of his converts do not understand the language they chant five times a day, and will lose meaning if it is translated in any other language.
Nope. Thats why we have a responsibility to teach those who do not know.
Teach them what? that every tafsir hadith and quran that they have been exposed to is in error and only your interpretation is the correct one and you have the monopoly on the truth and interpretation of the quran?
Why does Allah make some rich and some stay poor or in between ?
What are you talking about here? First off let us be clear on something I do not believe we worship the same God, something else I should let you on, you have not proven ONE point in all the discussions we have had,
I am just amazed at the level of deception you are prepared to stoop to ( if you honestly believe I am buying in your own personal interpretation of the quran I suggest you think again), to avoid facing what is staring you in black and white.
Imagine that. If Islam dominates the earth that means Arabic also will be the dominating language. One religion, one language, one brotherhood, one G-d etc. Think about it.
That reminds me of this:
"
Revelation 13
15He was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that it could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed.
16He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead,
17so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name.
if your god can only send it's message in an ambiguous language 90%+ of it's converts do not understand and it loses it's meaning being interpreted, then your god is arabic and only understands arabic. This is not God.
Quote:
" The Koran is one of the worlds classics which cannot be translated without grave loss." (Ref. A. Guillama, Islam, P. 73)
Quote:
Adding to this the english language it self falls short and is limited in conveying the proper significant meaning of the Arabic in which Tafsir is need for those who do not speak Arabic for them to obtain a fuller understanding.
Liberate wrote:
Now you are admitting you need a tafsir to understand it, if I were to show you some of the unbelievable nonsense in your tafsirs you are going to start acting that you are quran only again as you are doing with the hadiths.
Did you see in bold who the Tafsir is for ?
What difference does it make?
The tafsir is for those who do not understand arabic according to you, so what do you think the tafsir is explaining to them?
Liberate wrote:Quote:
16:4 He has created man from a sperm-drop
32:8 He made his seed from a quintessence of despised fluid
35:11 ... then from a little fluid
53:46 From a sperm-drop when lodged (in its place)
56:58 Do you then see? The (human Seed) that ye emit
75:37 Was he not a drop of sperm emitted (in lowly form)?
76:2 We created Man from a drop of mingled sperm
80:19 From a sperm-drop He hath created him
86:6-7 He is created from a drop emitted - proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs.
These are some of your creation accounts according to Mohammed, all state that man is created from sperm, that it is emitting from between the backbone and the ribs.
No those are the creation accounts according to the interpretation of the translators that are subject to error.
Now you are debating with an Arabic speaker. My reference is the Quran in Arabic not a translation. Now what do those verses mean to me when I read them in their original ? Here it is as follows with its Tafsir:
16:4 He created man (male and female) from a nutfah (a thing that trickles) [ie a sperm]
Tafsir Al-Mujaalid Samiy Abdullah : ["nutfah" is a feminine verbal noun derived from the root "natafa" meaning to trickle dribble or drop. Male and female "al-insaan" is created from this thing that determines their gender]
32:8 and then He made his (Adam and his Wife) progeny from an extract from contemptible water
Tafsir Al-Mujaalid Samiy Abdullah : [ the progeny of man is created from an extract drawn from contemptible water or fluid in the human body. There is nothing stating directly or inderectly that this is semen]
35:11 and Allah created you all from dust, and then a nutfah (a thing that strickles), and then He made you all as pairs..
Tafsir Al-Mujaalid Samiy Abdullah : [ The evolution of the creation of mankind is here spoken of. Allah began his creation of dust and thus his body is composed of dust which is one of the constituents of his body as we see when the body decomposes after death it become as dust once again. The dust element of the body is used to produce the nutfah along with other constituent elements such as water.Then from nutfah the pairs of male and female are created from which determines the gender.]
53:46 from a nutfah (a trickler ie. sperm) when emited
Tafsir Al-Mujaalid Samiy Abdullah : [ The study of the male repoductive system shows that the sperm is emited from at least 3 parts of the male. 1) from the Scotum 2) Prostate glands 3) and then the penis which druing emition passes through the Epididymis from the Scrotum that pushes it out to the prostate glands that adds fluid ie semen to it and then through the Urethra of the Penis.]
Now the tafsir has the translation wrong, and you interpret the tafsir with your own interpolations to match with what you want the koran to say.
Absolutely amazing, so let me get this straight the tafsir is for those who do not understand arabic, but the interpretation of the tafsir you suddenly deem is incorrect even though the tafsir is for those who do not understand arabic, so the people who are reading the tafsir that is suppose to aid their understanding as they do not understand arabic according to you are in a lose lose situation because the tafsir interpretation is wrong!!!. Is not the tafsir suppose to have the same message as the quran? regardless if it is an arabic speaker or a non arabic speaker that is reading it, where do you get off with this ego that the tafsir has no hold on you?
WHERE ARE YOUR ARABIC SCHOLAR QUALIFICATIONS TO DISMISS ALL QURANIC TRANSLATIONS, HADITHS AND TAFSIRS AS A WRONG TRANSLATION?
Liberate wrote:For someone who alledgedly studied embryology I find it unbelievable to hear you SAY ovum and sperm is produced from between the backbone and the ribs.
And you have mistaken me or you were not paying attention to what I said. I think you are bringing your own personal debated issues with other muslims into this. I mentioned no such thing:
So then let man (male and female) consider from what they are created from. They are created from ejected liquid coming out from between the backbone and the ribs "
"Man" is translated from the arabic word "al-insaa" which is dual literally meaning "the two human beings" expressing the two gender of male and female.
The mistake here is when people read this they thinkin of only the gender of male when it is refering to both male and female.
"Liquid" is translated from the arabic word "maa'a" whereas there is no word for semen or sperm in the context.
This liquid that both male and female are created from is ejected comming out from between the backbone and the ribs which is the THORAX area of the spinal.
Where in the world you Christians keep having this illusions of semen and sperm is beyond me.
Whos Thorax does this Liquid come out from. It is the Thorax of both male and female and not just the male in which the Subject is refering to both male and female.
So what is this liquid that lodges in the Thorax of both male and female that we are created from ?
Males produce sperm but what is the sperm created from in the body ?
Females produce ovums which are follicles before ovulation. So what is the follicles created from in the body ?
Before they become living organisms ie cells they where created from something in the body.
The above is your quote, the fact that you even proceeded the back bone and the ribs nonsense in bold font tells me you are just another illogical fundamentalist muslim that is taking your audience for idiots.