Christian/Muslim ThreadsHow Do Christians Read The Quran ?Greetings H2O, Huh....so much for “burning” your copy of Omar’s Lexicon... Looks like it’s your ONLY source for the Classic Arabic...and a cherished source at that!! LOL...! Oh....and please don’t continue pretending that you have Lane’s Lexicon....it’s not very becoming of a Muslim to continue lying..... Swear it on Mo’s grave...!
Since you don’t have E.W. lanes Lexicon…Don’t be afraid to say that you are still using Omar’s Lexicon….after all, you paid your hard earned $ for it…. ماء = “ma-in” “ma-in” definition: Water; Sap of plants; Juice. It comes from the root “maha”, which means to hold much water, draw water. Reference: The Dictionary of the Holy Qur’an Abdul Mannan Omar p. 547
Let’s look… Exegetical Analysis: Ayah 6… 6. خلق من ماء دافق Khuliqa min ma-in dafiqin من = “min” “min” definition: Preposition used for expressing starting point, part of a whole, origin as, from, of some, amongst. Determining time mood of action, as, no, upon, from, of. Reference: The Dictionary of the Holy Qur’an Abdul Mannan Omar p. 542 ماء = “ma-in” “ma-in” definition: Water; Sap of plants; Juice. It comes from the root “maha”, which means to hold much water, draw water. Reference: The Dictionary of the Holy Qur’an Abdul Mannan Omar p. 547 دافق = “dafiqin” “dafiqin” definition: Jetting; Flowing with force. That which flow with force. It comes from the root “dafaqa”, which means to flow with force, pour forth, go briskly. It appears only once in the entire Koran. Reference: The Dictionary of the Holy Qur’an Abdul Mannan Omar p. 180 Thus, we have this Literal rendering of 86:6… He was created from water pouring/jetting/flowing forcefully. Let’s compare ayah 6 to all of the Koranic fluid-based “creation” passages of the Koran. Exegetical analysis of the twelve “creation” via “nutfatin” ayahs in the Koran: نطفة = “nutfatin” “nutfatin” definition: Drop of semen; Quantity of pure water; Drop of fluid. It comes from the root “natafa”, which means to flow gently, extrude, ooze, exude, drop, pour, trickle. A drop/a male’s or female’s secretion/little water. References: The Dictionary of the Holy Qur’an Abdul Mannan Omar p. 567 The Koran Complete Dictionary & Literal Translation Mohamed Ahmed p. 390 1) He created the human/mankind from a drop/male's or female's secretion/little water, so then he is (a) clear/evident disputer/adversary. (16:4) Khalaqa al-insana min NUTFATIN fa-itha huwa khaseemun mubeenun 2) His companion/friend said to him and he is discussing/debating with him: "Did you disbelieve with Who created you from dust/earth then from a drop/male's or females' secretion/little water, then He straightened you (into) a man?” (18:37) Qala lahu sahibuhu wahuwa yuhawiruhu akafarta biallathee khalaqaka min turabin thumma min NUTFATIN thumma sawwaka rajulan 3) You, you the people, if you were in doubt/suspicion from the resurrection/revival, so We created you from dust/earth, then from a drop/males' or female's secretion/little water, then from a blood clot/sperm/semen, then from a piece of something chew able of flesh or other evened/smoothed/kneadable, and other than (that) not evened/smoothed/kneadable, to clarify/explain to you, and We settle/establish in the wombs/uteruses what We will/want to a named/identified term/time, then We bring you out (as) a child/children, then to reach your maturity/strength, and from you who (is) made to die, and from you who is returned to the life time's worst/meanest, so that he not know from after knowledge a thing, and you see/understand the earth/Planet Earth quiet/lifeless, so if We descended on it the water, it shook/moved, and it grew/increased, and it sprouted/grew from every pair delightful/cheering. (22:5) Ya ayyuha alnnasu in kuntum fee raybin mina albaAAthi fa-inna khalaqnakum min turabin thumma min NUTFATIN thumma min AAalaqatin thumma min mudghatin mukhallaqatin waghayri mukhallaqatin linubayyina lakum wanuqirru fee al-arhami ma nashao ila ajalin musamman thumma nukhrijukum tiflan thumma litablughoo ashuddakum waminkum man yutawaffa waminkum man yuraddu ila arthali alAAumuri likayla yaAAlama min baAAdi AAilmin shay-an watara al-arda hamidatan fa-itha anzalna AAalayha almaa ihtazzat warabat waanbatat min kulli zawjin baheejin 4) Then We created/made him a drop/male's or female's secretion/little water in (a) firm/established bottom. (23:13) Thumma jaAAalnahu NUTFATAN fee qararin makeenin 5) Then We created the drop/male's or female's secretion/little water (into) a blood clot/sperm/ semen, so We created the blood clot/sperm/semen (into) a piece of something chewable of flesh or other, so We created the piece of something chewable of flesh or other (into) bones, so We dressed/clothed the bones (with) flesh/meat, then We originated/developed him (into) another creation, so blessed (is) Allah, best (of) the creators. (23:14) Thumma khalaqna ALNNUTFATA AAalaqatan fakhalaqna alAAalaqata mudghatan fakhalaqna almudghata AAithaman fakasawna alAAithama lahman thumma ansha/nahu khalqan akhara fatabaraka Allahu ahsanu alkhaliqeena 6) And Allah created you from dust/earth then from a drop/male's or female's secretion/little water, then He made you pairs/couples, and no female conceives/(is) pregnant with and nor gives birth/drops except with His knowledge, and no long lived/aged be granted long life, and nor be reduced (shortened) from his lifetime except in a Book/fate/term, that truly that (is) on Allah easy/little. (35:11) WaAllahu khalaqakum min turabin thumma min NUTFATIN thumma jaAAalakum azwajan wama tahmilu min ontha wala tadaAAu illa biAAilmihi wama yuAAammaru min muAAammarin wala yunqasu min AAumurihi illa fee kitabin inna thalika AAala Allahi yaseerun 7) Does not the human/mankind see/understand that We created him from a drop/male's or female's secretion/little water, so then he is a clear/evident disputer/adversary/arguer? (36.77) Awa lam yara al-insanu anna khalaqnahu min NUTFATIN fa-itha huwa khaseemun mubeenun 8 ) He is who created you from dust/earth, then from a drop/male's or female's secretion/little water, then from a blood clot/sperm/semen, then He brings you out (as) a child/children, then to reach your maturity/strength, then to be old aged, and from you whom (is) made to die from before, and to reach a named/identified (specified) term/time, and maybe/perhaps you reason/comprehend. (40:67) Huwa allathee khalaqakum min turabin thumma min NUTFATIN thumma min AAalaqatin thumma yukhrijukum tiflan thumma litablughoo ashuddakum thumma litakoonoo shuyookhan waminkum man yutawaffa min qablu walitablughoo ajalan musamman walaAAallakum taAAqiloona 9) From a drop/males or female's secretion/little water, if/when (it be) emitted. (53:46) Min NUTFATIN itha tumna تمني = “tumna” “tumna” definition: Emitted. It comes from the root “mana”, which means to inspire with desire. Reference: The Dictionary of the Holy Qur’an Abdul Mannan Omar p. 543-544 10) Did he not be a drop/male's or female's secretion/little water from sperm/semen, emitted? (75:37) Alam yaku NUTFATAN min manayyin yumna مني = “manayyin” “manayyin” definition: Sperma; Drop of fluid which is emitted; Small drop of semen; Small life germ in sperma. It comes from the root “mana”, which means to inspire with desire. Reference: The Dictionary of the Holy Qur’an Abdul Mannan Omar p. 543-544 يمني = “yumna” “yumna” definition: Is emitted. It comes from the root “mana”, which means to inspire with desire. Reference: The Dictionary of the Holy Qur’an Abdul Mannan Omar p. 543-544 11) That We, We created the human/mankind from a drop/male's or female's secretion mixtures, We test him, so We made/created him hearing/listening, seeing/knowing. (76:2) Inna khalaqna al-insana min NUTFATIN amshajin nabtaleehi fajaAAalnahu sameeAAan baseeran امشاج = “amshajin” “amshajin” definition: This word is a plural noun. It means Mingled; Inter-mingled; Mixed; United; Mixture of. It comes from the root “mashaja”, which means to mix up, mingle, unite. Reference: The Dictionary of the Holy Qur’an Abdul Mannan Omar p. 535 12) From a drop/male's or female's secretion He created him, so He predestined/evaluated/estimated him. (80:19) Min NUTFATIN khalaqahu faqaddarahu Key points from the creation via “nutfatin” ayahs: 1) In all cases “nutfatin” refers to a small volume of fluid (i.e. drop of semen/sperm, little water) 2) This small volume of water is also witnessed by “manayyin” 3) The fluid is NOT pouring/jetting/flowing forcefully 4) “Nutfatin” comes from the root “natafa”, which means to flow gently, extrude, ooze, exude, drop, pour, trickle 5) The lack of force behind the fluid emission is also acknowledged by “yumna”,& “tumna” 6) “Nutfatin” is a mixture of fluids as described by “amshajin” 7) From a Male/Female. Exegetical analysis of the five “creation” via “water” ayahs of the Koran: ماء = “ma-in” “ma-in” definition: Water; Sap of plants; Juice. It comes from the root “maha”, which means to hold much water, draw water. Reference: The Dictionary of the Holy Qur’an Abdul Mannan Omar p. 547 1) Did those who disbelieved not see that the skies/space and the earth/Planet Earth, they were joined, so We split/ruptured them, and We made/created from the water every thing alive/living, so do they not believe? (21:30) Awa lam yara allatheena kafaroo anna alssamawati waal-arda kanata ratqan fafataqnahuma wajaAAalna mina ALMA-I kulla shay-in hayyin afala yu/minoona 2) And Allah created every/each walker/creeper/crawler from water, so from them who walks (moves) on its belly, and from them who walks on two feet, and from them who walks on four, Allah creates what He wills/wants, that truly Allah (is) on every thing capable/powerful. (24:45) WaAllahu khalaqa kulla dabbatin min MA-IN faminhum man yamshee AAala batnihi waminhum man yamshee AAala rijlayni waminhum man yamshee AAala arbaAAin yakhluqu Allahu ma yashao inna Allaha AAala kulli shay-in qadeerun 3) And He is who created from the water a human so He made/put him a relationship/kinship and relations through marriage, and your Lord was/is capable/able/overpowering. (25:54) Wahuwa allathee khalaqa mina ALMA-I basharan fajaAAalahu nasaban wasihran wakana rabbuka qadeeran 4) Who bettered every thing He created it, and He started/began the human's/mankind's creation from mud/clay. Then He created/made his off spring/descendants from descendent/strain/gene/progeny from humiliated/degraded water. (32:7-8 ) Allathee ahsana kulla shay-in khalaqahu wabadaa khalqa al-insani min teenin Thumma jaAAala naslahu min sulalatin min MA-IN maheenin 5) Did We not create you from despised/insignificant/miserable/wretched water? (77:20) Alam nakhluqkum min MA-IN maheenin مهين = “maheenin” “maheenin” definition: Despised; Weak; Reviled; Insignificant; Miserable; Wretched; Ignominious. It comes from the root “mahuna” which means to be despised, weak, reviled. Reference: The Dictionary of the Holy Qur’an Abdul Mannan Omar p. 545 Key points from the creation via “water” ayahs: 1) Man is created from water. 2) Not just any water, but despised/insignificant/miserable/wretched “maheenin” water. 3) Water is NOT flowing. 4) Water is NOT emitted from a human. Summary: 1) Ayah 6 expands upon ayah 5 and tells us from what mankind was created 2) The water “ma-in” in ayah 6 is described as large in quantity by the root “maha”, which means to hold much water 3) The large volume of water is in motion; pouring/jetting/flowing forcefully 4) Comparing all of the Koranic fluid-based “creation” passages, clearly shows that Sura 86 is not referring to creation via an emitted drop “nutfah”, nor is it referring to creation via stagnant, insignificant water 5) The “creation” of man spoken of in this Sura is unique from everything else mentioned in the entire Koran Integrated Summary of the Sura title & ayahs 1-6: 1) The Sura title, “alttariqi” unites the following three aspects: One who comes at night; One who knocks; Morning Star 2) Ayah 1 begins by acknowledging and joining all “al” aspects of heaven “ssama” and all “al” aspects of “ttariqi” 3) This sets the stage for the rest of the Sura 4) Ayah 2 asks how you came to the knowledge of “alttariqi” 5) Thus, the premise has been established that “alttariqi” is already known 6) Ayah 3 describes “alttariqi” as a rising star/planet having piercing brightness 7) Ayah 4 further elaborates on “alttariqi” proclaiming that ALL souls gather on it as a guardian 8 ) This gathering of spirits involves a punishment 9) This punishment involves blood 10) Ayah 5 is directly linked to ayah 4 by the sequence marker “fa” on “lyanthuri” proclaiming that not only do ALL souls gather on it as a guardian, but mankind has an intimate connection with “alttariqi” 11) This intimate connection, from which mankind is created is sacred/consecrated 12) To consecrate is to devote irrevocably to the worship of God 13) Ayah 6 expands upon ayah 5 and tells us from what mankind was created 14) The water “ma-in” in ayah 6 is described as large in quantity by the root “maha”, which means to hold much water 15) The large volume of water is in motion; pouring/jetting/flowing forcefully 16) Comparing all of the Koranic fluid-based “creation” passages, clearly shows that Sura 86 is not referring to creation via an emitted drop “nutfah”, nor is it referring to creation via stagnant, insignificant water 17) The “creation” of man spoken of in this Sura is unique from everything else mentioned in the entire Koran 18 ) Both Blood and water have been mentioned Looks like your exegesis is bankrupt….
Let’s close the “open” issue once and for all… Exegetical Analysis: Ayah 7… 7. يخرج من بين الصلب والترائب Yakhruju min bayni alssulbi waalttara-ibi يخرج = “Yakhruju” “Yakhruju” definition: He comes out. Appears, emerges, brings out. It comes from the root “kharaja”, which means to go out, go forth, come forth, deport, attack, rebel against. References: The Dictionary of the Holy Qur’an Abdul Mannan Omar p. 150 The Koran Complete Dictionary & Literal Translation Mohamed Ahmed p. 419 بين = “bayni” “bayni” definition: Between; Before. It comes from the root “bana”, which means to be distinct and separate, far away, remote from, divorced, clear, obvious, explain. Reference: The Dictionary of the Holy Qur’an Abdul Mannan Omar p. 70-71 صلب = “ssulbi” “ssulbi” definition: Backbone; Loins; Spine. It comes from the root “salaba”, which means to put to death by crucifixion, extract marrow from bones. Reference: The Dictionary of the Holy Qur’an Abdul Mannan Omar p. 318 The Koran Complete Dictionary & Literal Translation Mohamed Ahmed p. 71 Reviewing “al” again… ال= “al” “al” definition: The definite article. In Arabic it is used to give the meaning of Most, All, Complete, Maximum, Whole, and to donate comprehensiveness, that is to say all aspects or categories of a subject, or to denote perfection and includes all degrees and grades. It is also used to indicate something which has already been mentioned or a concept of which is in the mind of the writer or reader. Reference: The Dictionary of the Holy Qur’an Abdul Mannan Omar p. 25 الصلب = “al” + “ssulbi” = “alssulbi” = backbone/loins/spine ترائب = “ttara-ibi” “ttara-ibi” definition: Plural noun. Breast bone; Upper part of girls chest. The rib bones. It comes from the root “tariba”, which means to have much earth, be full of earth, have dust in his hands, be destitute. References: The Dictionary of the Holy Qur’an Abdul Mannan Omar p. 74 The Koran Complete Dictionary & Literal Translation Mohamed Ahmed p. 55 والترائب = “wa” + “al” + “ttara-ibi” = “waalttara-ibi” = and the breast bone/rib bones Thus, we have this Literal rendering of 86:7… He comes out/emerges/appears from between the backbone/loins/spine and the breast bone/rib bones. Let’s examine all of the ayahs in the Koran that mention crucifixion: And their saying: "We have killed the Messiah, Jesus, Mary's son, Allah's messenger, and they have not killed him, and they have not crucified him/placed him on a cross, and but (it) resembled/was vague/was doubtful to them, and that those who disagreed/disputed in (about) him (are) in doubt/suspicion from him, (there is) no knowledge for them with (about) him, except following the assumption , and they have not killed him surely/certainly. (4:157) Waqawlihim inna qatalna almaseeha AAeesa ibna maryama rasoola Allahi wama qataloohu wama salaboohu walakin shubbiha lahum wa-inna allatheena ikhtalafoo feehi lafee shakkin minhu ma lahum bihi min AAilmin illa ittibaAAa alththanni wama qataloohu yaqeenan وماصلبوه = “wama salaboohu” “wama salaboohu” definition: They did not cause death by crucification. It comes from the root “salaba”, which means to put to death by crucifixion, extract marrow from bones. Reference: The Dictionary of the Holy Qur’an Abdul Mannan Omar p. 318 But (the) reward (of) those who embattle/fight Allah and His messenger, and they strive/endeavor in the earth/Planet Earth corruption/disorder, that they be killed or they be crucified, or their hands and their feet be cut off from opposites, or they be expelled/exiled from the land, that (is) for them shame/scandal/disgrace in the present world, and for them in the end (other life is) a great torture. (5:33) Innama jazao allatheena yuhariboona Allaha warasoolahu wayasAAawna fee al-ardi fasadan an yuqattaloo aw yusallaboo aw tuqattaAAa aydeehim waarjuluhum min khilafin aw yunfaw mina al-ardi thalika lahum khizyun fee alddunya walahum fee al-akhirati AAathabun AAatheemun يصلبوا = “yusallaboo” “yusallaboo” definition: They will crucify till death. It comes from the root “salaba”, which means to put to death by crucifixion, extract marrow from bones. Reference: The Dictionary of the Holy Qur’an Abdul Mannan Omar p. 318 "You my two companions/friends (of) the prison/jail, but, one of you so he gives drink an intoxicant (to) his lord, and but the other, so he be crucified/placed on a cross , so the birds eat from his head, the matter/affair which in it you ask for an opinion/clarification was passed judgment/ordered." (12:41) Ya sahibayi alssijni amma ahadukuma fayasqee rabbahu khamran waamma al-akharu fayuslabu fata/kulu alttayru min ra/sihi qudiya al-amru allathee feehi tastaftiyani فيصلب = “fayuslabu” “fayuslabu” definition: Will be crucified till death. It comes from the root “salaba”, which means to put to death by crucifixion, extract marrow from bones. Reference: The Dictionary of the Holy Qur’an Abdul Mannan Omar p. 318 "I will cut off/amputate your hands and your feet from opposites, then I will crucify you/place you on crosses all/all together." (7:124) LaoqatiAAanna aydiyakum waarjulakum min khilafin thumma laosallibannakum ajmaAAeena He said: "You believed to him before that I permit for you, that he truly (is) your biggest/greatest who taught/instructed you the magic/sorcery, so I will cut off/sever your hands and your feet from opposites (sides), and I will crucify you in the palm trees' trunks/stems, and you will know which of us (is) stronger (in) torture and more lasting." (20:71) Qala amantum lahu qabla an athana lakum innahu lakabeerukumu allathee AAallamakumu alssihra falaoqattiAAanna aydiyakum waarjulakum min khilafin walaosallibannakum fee juthooAAi alnnakhli walataAAlamunna ayyuna ashaddu AAathaban waabqa He said: "You believed to him before that I permit/allow for you, that he truly is your greatest/teacher and leader who taught/instructed you the magic/sorcery, so you will/shall know I will cut off/sever your hands and your feet from opposites (sides), and I will crucify you/place you on crosses all/all together." (26:49) Qala amantum lahu qabla an athana lakum innahu lakabeerukumu allathee AAallamakumu alssihra falasawfa taAAlamoona laoqattiAAanna aydiyakum waarjulakum min khilafin walaosallibannakum ajmaAAeena ولاصلبنكم = “walaosallibannakum” “walaosallibannakum” definition: I will surely crucify till death. It comes from the root “salaba”, which means to put to death by crucifixion, extract marrow from bones. Reference: The Dictionary of the Holy Qur’an Abdul Mannan Omar p. 318 Summary round-up of ALL of the Koranic Crucifixion ayahs… From 86:7… صُّلْب = “ssulbi” = Backbone; Loins; Spine = from the root, SALABA Compare to the other Koranic ayahs referencing Crucifixion… From 4:157… مَا صَلَبُوهُ = “ma salaboohu” = They did not cause death by crucification = from the root, SALABA From 5:33… يصلبوا = “yusallaboo” = They will crucify till death = from the root, SALABA From 12:41… فيصلب = “fayuslabu” = Will be crucified till death = from the root, SALABA From 7:124, 20:71, 26:49 … ولاصلبنكم = “walaosallibannakum” = I will surely crucify till death = from the root, SALABA References: The Dictionary of the Holy Qur’an Abdul Mannan Omar p. 318 The Koran Complete Dictionary & Literal Translation Mohamed Ahmed p. 71 As you can see for yourself, ALL the Crucifixion ayahs in the Koran have the same root “salaba”. I have to wonder, first of all, why you failed to compare 86:7 to the other ayahs in the Koran that mention the same thing. Remember that proper exegesis includes examining where the word, or in this case, root, is used elsewhere in scripture. Additionally, you have not even bothered to look at how it relates to the direct context of the ayahs that surround it in Sura 86…..why is that? Key point from all of the crucifixion ayahs: 1) Every time crucifixion is mentioned in the Koran, the word used to describe the event can be traced back to the same root word “salaba” as utilized in ayah 7 Summary: 1) Ayah 7 tells us from where mankind was “created” 2) It describes the source of the water “ma-in” that is in motion 3) This source of the water comes from “between the backbone/loins/spine and the breast bone/rib bones 4) “alssulbi” which is rendered backbone/loins/spine, comes from the root “salaba”, which means TO PUT TO DEATH BY CRUCIFIXION, 5) Furthermore, investigating all the Koranic passages dealing with the crucifixion, trace their origins back to the root “salaba” 6) The definite article “al” in addition to signifying all aspects of a subject, can also be used to denote something which has already been mentioned or a concept of which is in the mind of the reader or writer 7) This water is described as coming from the human anatomy 8 ) This water, from which mankind is created, comes from “alttariqi” 9) “alttariqi” has been given human attributes Integrated Summary of the Sura title & ayahs 1-7: 1) The Sura title, “alttariqi” unites the following three aspects: One who comes at night; One who knocks; Morning Star 2) Ayah 1 begins by acknowledging and joining all “al” aspects of heaven “ssama” and all “al” aspects of “ttariqi” 3) This sets the stage for the rest of the Sura 4) Ayah 2 asks how you came to the knowledge of “alttariqi” 5) Thus, the premise has been established that “alttariqi” is already known 6) Ayah 3 describes “alttariqi” as a rising star/planet having piercing brightness 7) Ayah 4 further elaborates on “alttariqi” proclaiming that ALL souls gather on it as a guardian 8 ) This gathering of spirits involves a punishment 9) This punishment involves blood 10) Ayah 5 is directly linked to ayah 4 by the sequence marker “fa” on “lyanthuri” proclaiming that not only do ALL souls gather on it as a guardian, but mankind has an intimate connection with “alttariqi” 11) This intimate connection, from which mankind is created is sacred/consecrated 12) To consecrate is to devote irrevocably to the worship of God 13) Ayah 6 expands upon ayah 5 and tells us from what mankind was created 14) The water “ma-in” in ayah 6 is described as large in quantity by the root “maha”, which means to hold much water 15) The large volume of water is in motion; pouring/jetting/flowing forcefully 16) Comparing all of the Koranic fluid-based “creation” passages, clearly shows that Sura 86 is not referring to creation via an emitted drop “nutfah”, nor is it referring to creation via stagnant, insignificant water 17) The “creation” of man spoken of in this Sura is unique from everything else mentioned in the entire Koran 18 ) Both Blood and Water have been mentioned 19) Ayah 7 tells us from where mankind was “created” 20) It describes the source of the water “ma-in” that is in motion 21) This source of the water comes from “between the backbone/loins/spine and the breast bone/rib bones 22) “alssulbi” which is rendered backbone/loins/spine, comes from the root “salaba”, which means TO PUT TO DEATH BY CRUCIFIXION, 23) Furthermore, investigating all the Koranic passages dealing with the crucifixion, trace their origins back to the root “salaba” 24) The definite article “al” in addition to signifying all aspects of a subject, can also be used to denote something which has already been mentioned or a concept of which is in the mind of the reader or writer 25) This water is described as coming from the human anatomy 26) This water, from which mankind is created, comes from “alttariqi” 27) “alttariqi” has been given human attributes As usual….you are falling flat on your face……….again……… Take care… |
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