Liberate wrote:Why is it that the online translator agrees with the majority of accepted quranic translations, and the rules of arabic, what is your qualification as an arabic scholar?, to dismiss what seasoned scholars, and an independent neutral arabic translation utilising the rules of arabic have to say?
Lets take a look at them :
066.005
YUSUFALI: It may be, if he divorced you (all), that Allah will give him in exchange consorts better than you,- who submit (their wills), who believe, who are devout, who turn to Allah in repentance, who worship (in humility), who travel (for Faith) and fast,- previously married or virgins.
PICKTHAL: It may happen that his Lord, if he divorce you, will give him in your stead wives better than you, submissive (to Allah), believing, pious, penitent, devout, inclined to fasting, widows and maids.
SHAKIR: Maybe, his Lord, if he divorce you, will give him in your place wives better than you, submissive, faithful, obedient, penitent, adorers, fasters, widows and virgins.
Were you guessing again like you usually do ? Now lets see what we translated compared to the above:
H2O wrote:Perhaps his Lord, if he devorced you all, that He will replace for him spouses better than you....."
or
"Perhaps that his Lord will replace for him spouses better than you all if he devorced you...."
Compared to your bot translator :
May be his Lord, if he divorces you, will give him in your place wives better than you, submissive, faithful, obedient, penitent, adorers, fasters, widows and virgin." sura 66:5
With the Arabic transliteration accompanied with english meaning in () :
H2O wrote:
'asaa (perhaps/maybe) rabbu (Lord) hu (his) in (if) Tallaqa (he devorced) kunna (you all) an (that) yubdila (He will replace) hu (him) azwaajan (spouses) khairan (better) min (than) kunna (you all).....
Ali, Pickthal, and Our translation comform with each other in which "
an" ~
that a conjuction followed by an imperfectence verb denoting an
achievable action to occure that is mansoob of "'asaa" ~ perhaps/maybe denoting
certainty rather than doubt "IF" another action was fulfilled in the context.
Your bot translation and Shakir have failed to translate "an" which clearifies "'asaa" ~ perhaps/maybe to denote the
certainty of an act that would be done.
Liberate wrote:Are you honestly trying to tell us maybe doesn't mean maybe in arabic?
Your answer was given:
The Arabic word "'asaa" denotes hope in the case of that which is liked or disliked as an opinion or doubt or certainty (Ref. Edward Lane Arabic Lexicon)
In english it denotes doubt, in Arabic it can be any of the three denotations in bold above.
If you want confirmation you can ask you brother Apple Pie to turn to page 373 of that dictionary that he so galantly uses.
Liberate wrote:You have dismissed all the accepted english translations of the koran. You even dismissed the widely accepted Yusuf Ali translation, listening to you, someone would leave with the impression that Yusuf Ali didn't understand english properly rather than a Cambridge graduate.
Accepted by who ? Translations of the Quran have not authority upon Arabic speakers not to mention do to the fact when you translate the Quran you lose meaning:
" The Koran is one of the worlds classics which cannot be translated without grave loss." (Ref. A. Guillama, Islam, P. 73)
Adding to this the english language it self falls short and is limited in conveying the proper significant meaning of the Arabic in which Tafsir is need for those who do not speak Arabic for them to obtain a fuller understanding.
As to the three translations that you rely your criticism on:
Translations of the Qur'an
On this Web site, there are three translations[Ali, Pickthal, Shakir] of the Qur'an.
Note that any translation of the Qur'an immediately ceases to be the literal word of Allah, and hence
cannot be equated with the Qur'an in its original Arabic form. In fact, each of the translations on this site is
actually an interpretation which has been translated. The first-time reader is
strongly advised to read the introduction to the translations we have made available. Corrections and suggestions are appreciated.
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/
Introduction to the translations
Warning!
Please keep in mind
that ANY translation of the Qur'an will most definitely contain errors (e.g. see our online list of corrections). We have provided three translations here to emphasize this point. In its natural language (Arabic), the Qur'an is the direct Word of Allah (God) to mankind through the prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). Any translation of the Qur'an no longer retains that 'official' and perfect status, however it can be tremendously helpful to beginning students wanting to learn more about Islam.
We would strongly encourage those want to learn about Islam to purchase a hardcopy of the Qur'an but with the following conditions:
get one with commentary (tafseer)
make sure the tafseer is scholarly (e.g. references to reasons behind a verse, references to hadith and sunnah, etc.)
Unfortunately, the three translations presented here do NOT meet these simple conditions. To the best of our knowledge, an excellent English translation and commentary of the Qur'an is Maududi's recently published work "The Meaning of the Qur'an". This work took more than forty years to complete, and was published beginning in the mid to late 1980's. We have included Maududi's introduction to each chapter of the Qur'an, but the complete commentary is not online (yet!). Maududi's work is superior to the three works presented here, HOWEVER please note that we are not in any way decrying the tremendous efforts of Ali, Pickthal, or Shakir. May Allah reward them all.
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/qmtintro.html
Their works have been subject to editing and corrections in which they are all followed by edition 1,2,3 etc
Does an Arabic Speaker need to be an Arabic Scholar to correct a translation ? No. Ref.
The first-time reader is strongly advised to read the introduction to the translations we have made available. Corrections and suggestions are appreciated.
Corrections of all three translations done by Arabic Speakers who are not Arabic scholars
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/corrections.html
Liberate wrote:Why is it that the online translator agrees with the majority of accepted quranic translations, and the rules of arabic, what is your qualification as an arabic scholar?, to dismiss what seasoned scholars, and an independent neutral arabic translation utilising the rules of arabic have to say?
Your bot tanslator could not translate "an" ~
that a conjuction introducing an achievable act of certainty which is mansoob of "'asaa" ~ perhaps.maybe that denoted opinion, doubt, or certainty; nor could it properly translate "kunna" ~
you all (fem. pl. three or more) in which the human translators failed to do.
Liberate wrote:
what is your qualification as an arabic scholar?
tell us again what are your scholarly qualifications in arabic?
Sure. I completed Fus-haa Arabiyyah studies at the Islamic Center of Boca Raton in Quranic Grammar, Linguistics, and Orthography. Our Shaikh and Teacher was Qari Ahmad Tameem from Masjid Al-Azhar who is a graduate mu'alim of the Al-Azhar University the leading University of Classical and Modern Arabic studies.
Re: Let me give you something you can relate to(Liberate wrote):
Which of course has nothing to do with the phenominon relation of the Quran to your insignificant and un-scientifically supported accuasation of assocaiting it with epilepcy.
I find it very strange your response is to laugh at the hadith?? regardless of the implications of that hadith!!! In the process of defending your religion you chose to laugh at it, reveals a great deal about your character and your motives for being on this forum, why didn't you address the child looking like it's mother or father superstitious nonsense in that hadith or was that a laughing matter to?
Hmm lets see
...As for the resemblance of the child to its parents: If a man has sexual intercourse with his wife and gets discharge first, the child will resemble the father, and if the woman gets discharge first, the child will resemble her...."
Well for a fact the male sperm determines the
gender of the child. As for whom the child will resemble most it is based on the strongest genes bewteen the male and female.
โุญูุฏููุซูููุง โ โุนูุจูุฏู ุงูููููู ุจููู ู
ููููุฑู โ โุณูู
ูุนู โ โุนูุจูุฏู ุงูููููู ุจููู ุจูููุฑู โ โุญูุฏููุซูููุง โ โุญูู
ูููุฏู โ โุนููู โ โุฃูููุณู โ โููุงูู โ
โุณูู
ูุนู โ โุนูุจูุฏู ุงูููููู ุจููู ุณูููุงู
ู โ โุจูููุฏููู
ู ุฑูุณูููู ุงูููููู โ โุตููููู ุงูููููู ุนููููููู ููุณููููู
ู โ โูููููู ููู ุฃูุฑูุถู ููุฎูุชูุฑููู ููุฃูุชูู ุงููููุจูููู โ โุตููููู ุงูููููู ุนููููููู ููุณููููู
ู โ โููููุงูู ุฅููููู ุณูุงุฆููููู ุนููู ุซูููุงุซู ููุง ููุนูููู
ูููููู ุฅููููุง ููุจูููู ููู
ูุง ุฃูููููู โ โุฃูุดูุฑูุงุทู ุงูุณููุงุนูุฉู โ โููู
ูุง ุฃูููููู ุทูุนูุงู
ู ุฃููููู ุงููุฌููููุฉู ููู
ูุง ููููุฒูุนู ุงููููููุฏู ุฅูููู ุฃูุจูููู ุฃููู ุฅูููู ุฃูู
ูููู ููุงูู โ โุฃูุฎูุจูุฑูููู ุจูููููู โ โุฌูุจูุฑูููู โ โุขููููุง ููุงูู โ โุฌูุจูุฑูููู โ โููุงูู ููุนูู
ู ููุงูู ุฐูุงูู ุนูุฏูููู โ โุงูููููููุฏู โ โู
ููู ุงููู
ูููุงุฆูููุฉู ููููุฑูุฃู ููุฐููู ุงููุขููุฉู โ
โู
ููู ููุงูู ุนูุฏููููุง โ โููุฌูุจูุฑูููู โ โููุฅูููููู ููุฒูููููู ุนูููู ููููุจููู ุจูุฅูุฐููู ุงูููููู โ
โุฃูู
ููุง ุฃูููููู โ โุฃูุดูุฑูุงุทู ุงูุณููุงุนูุฉู โ โููููุงุฑู ุชูุญูุดูุฑู ุงููููุงุณู ู
ููู ุงููู
ูุดูุฑููู ุฅูููู ุงููู
ูุบูุฑูุจู ููุฃูู
ููุง ุฃูููููู ุทูุนูุงู
ู ููุฃููููููู ุฃููููู ุงููุฌููููุฉู ููุฒูููุงุฏูุฉู ููุจูุฏู ุญููุชู ููุฅูุฐูุง ุณูุจููู ู
ูุงุกู ุงูุฑููุฌููู ู
ูุงุกู ุงููู
ูุฑูุฃูุฉู ููุฒูุนู ุงููููููุฏู ููุฅูุฐูุง ุณูุจููู ู
ูุงุกู ุงููู
ูุฑูุฃูุฉู ููุฒูุนูุชู ููุงูู ุฃูุดูููุฏู ุฃููู ููุง ุฅููููู ุฅููููุง ุงูููููู ููุฃูุดูููุฏู ุฃูููููู ุฑูุณูููู ุงูููููู ููุง ุฑูุณูููู ุงูููููู ุฅูููู โ โุงูููููููุฏู โ โููููู
ู ุจูููุชู ููุฅููููููู
ู ุฅููู ููุนูููู
ููุง ุจูุฅูุณูููุงู
ูู ููุจููู ุฃููู ุชูุณูุฃูููููู
ู ููุจูููุชููููู ููุฌูุงุกูุชู โ โุงูููููููุฏู โ โููููุงูู ุงููููุจูููู โ โุตููููู ุงูููููู ุนููููููู ููุณููููู
ู โ โุฃูููู ุฑูุฌููู โ โุนูุจูุฏู ุงูููููู โ โูููููู
ู ููุงูููุง ุฎูููุฑูููุง ููุงุจููู ุฎูููุฑูููุง ููุณููููุฏูููุง ููุงุจููู ุณููููุฏูููุง ููุงูู ุฃูุฑูุฃูููุชูู
ู ุฅููู ุฃูุณูููู
ู โ โุนูุจูุฏู ุงูููููู ุจููู ุณูููุงู
ู โ โููููุงูููุง ุฃูุนูุงุฐููู ุงูููููู ู
ููู ุฐููููู ููุฎูุฑูุฌู โ โุนูุจูุฏู ุงูููููู โ โููููุงูู ุฃูุดูููุฏู ุฃููู ููุง ุฅููููู ุฅููููุง ุงูููููู ููุฃูููู โ โู
ูุญูู
ููุฏูุง โ โุฑูุณูููู ุงูููููู ููููุงูููุง ุดูุฑููููุง ููุงุจููู ุดูุฑููููุง ููุงููุชูููุตูููู ููุงูู ููููุฐูุง ุงูููุฐูู ููููุชู ุฃูุฎูุงูู ููุง ุฑูุณูููู ุงูููููู โ
http://hadith.al-islam.com/Display/Disp ... 0&Rec=6449
The following is the English Translation by Dr. M. Muhsin Khan
Sahih Al-Bukhari Volumn 006, Book 060, Hadith Number 007.
-----------------------------------------
Narated By Anas : 'Abdullah bin Salam heard the news of the arrival of Allah's Apostle (at Medina) while he was on a farm collecting its fruits. So he came to the Prophet and said, "I will ask you about three things which nobody knows unless he be a prophet. Firstly, what is the first portent of the Hour? What is the first meal of the people of Paradise? And what makes a baby look like its father or mother?'. The Prophet said, "Just now Gabriel has informed me about that." 'Abdullah said, "Gabriel?" The Prophet said, "Yes." 'Abdullah said, "He, among the angels is the enemy of the Jews." On that the Prophet recited this Holy Verse:
"Whoever is an enemy to Gabriel (let him die in his fury!) for he has brought it (i.e. Qur'an) down to your heart by Allah's permission." (2.97) Then he added, "As for the first portent of the Hour, it will be a fire that will collect the people from the East to West. And as for the first meal of the people of Paradise, it will be the caudite (i.e. extra) lobe of the fish liver. And if a man's discharge proceeded that of the woman, then the child resembles the father, and if the woman's discharge proceeded that of the man, then the child resembles the mother." On hearing that, 'Abdullah said, "I testify that None has the right to be worshipped but Allah, and that you are the Apostle of Allah, O, Allah's Apostle; the Jews are liars, and if they should come to know that I have embraced Islam, they would accuse me of being a liar." In the meantime some Jews came (to the Prophet) and he asked them, "What is 'Abdullah's status amongst you?" They replied, "He is the best amongst us, and he is our chief and the son of our chief." The Prophet said, "What would you think if 'Abdullah bin Salam embraced Islam?" They replied, "May Allah protect him from this!" Then 'Abdullah came out and said, "I testify that None has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is the Apostle of Allah." The Jews then said, "Abdullah is the worst of us and the son of the worst of us," and disparaged him. On that 'Abdullah said, "O Allah's Apostle! This is what I was afraid of!"
Dr Khan's translation is much more closer to the original than the translation you are using, despite he still renders certain words based on his interpretation rather than translating the actual meaning of the Arabic words.
...
And if a man's discharge proceeded that of the woman, then the child resembles the father, and if the woman's discharge proceeded that of the man, then the child resembles the mother...."
"
discharge" was translated from the Arabic word "maa'a" that means " water, liquid, fluid" (Ref. Edward Lane Arabic Lexicon)
"
proceeded" was translated from the Arabic word "sabaqa" that means "overtake, overcomes, outstrips, advance".
The "maa'a" that come from both male and female to create another human being is mention in the Quran:
86:5 fa ( so then) yandhuri (consider) al (the) insaan (man ie male and female) mimma (from what) khuliqa (created)
86:6 khuliqa (created) min (from) maa'a (liquid) daafiqin (ejected)
86:7 yakhruju (coming out) min (from) bayni (between) al (the) sulbi (backbone) wa (and) al (the) taraaa'ib (ribs)
" So then let man (male and female) consider from what they are created from. They are created from ejected liquid coming out from between the backbone and the ribs "
"Man" is translated from the arabic word "al-insaa" which is dual literally meaning "the two human beings" expressing the two gender of male and female.
The mistake here is when people read this they thinkin of only the gender of male when it is refering to both male and female.
"Liquid" is translated from the arabic word "maa'a" whereas there is no word for semen or sperm in the context.
This liquid that both male and female are created from is ejected comming out from between the backbone and the ribs which is the THORAX area of the spinal.
Where in the world you Christians keep having this illusions of semen and sperm is beyond me.
Whos Thorax does this Liquid come out from. It is the Thorax of both male and female and not just the male in which the Subject is refering to both male and female.
So what is this liquid that lodges in the Thorax of both male and female that we are created from ?
Males produce sperm but what is the sperm created from in the body ?
Females produce ovums which are follicles before ovulation. So what is the follicles created from in the body ?
Before they become living organisms ie cells they where created from something in the body.
This question was left open on another Forum
http://www.jesus-christ-forums.com/home/viewtopic ... ght=#35518 and no one could respond to it. The Ovum of a woman and the sperm of a man is made of plasma. This plasma is produced from "maa'a" or liquid from between the backbone and the ribs of men and women :
"
Cerebrospinal fluid (CSF) is a clear fluid that circulates in the space surrounding the spinal cord and brain. CSF protects the brain and spinal cord from injury by acting like a liquid cushion. CSF is usually obtained through a lumbar puncture (spinal tap). During the procedure, a needle is inserted usually between the 3rd and 4th lumbar vertebrae and the CSF fluid is collected for testing."
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency ... s/9239.htm
The hadith makes mention that the resemblance of a child favores either its mother or father depending on a "maa'a" liquid from the man or the woman in which his/her liquid "sabaqa"
overtake, overcomes, outstrips, advances the other.
This is refering to the strength of the gene protoplasm of the sperm or the ovum. If the genes in the male sperm or female ovum is stronger than or supersedes the other then the child will turn out to resemble him or her.