Greetings Khaleel,
Thanks for your comments…
when i see the word Allah, i think of God...plain and simple. similarly to how the Bible refers to the Creator as simply God. thats how i see it. please tell me how you see it ?!
Well…tell me this…do you think that the Allah of the Koran is the Yahweh of the Holy Bible?
Why…or…why not…?
so how do you view the Qur'an?
As a twisted imitation of its original source material, the Holy Bible…
do you accept what it has to say?
I accept that the Koran is an extra-Biblical confirmation to the authority of the Holy Bible…
As an imitation, the Koran holds no authority…
The Holy Bible has the final authority…
do you think its truth?
As an imitation Holy Book, the Koran needs constant correction, and clarification by its source, the Holy Bible…
Only the Holy Bible can reveal any truth that is contained in the Koran…
does the fact that you believe it's a "replication" of the Holy Bible make it less important to you?
Why would I trust my eternal salvation to a book that is a translation of the original?
I go to the source of the Koran, the Holy Bible, for my salvation…
So yes….the Koran is definitely much less important to me…the Koran cannot be used for salvation – but for the study of an interesting twist to Biblical scriptures…
do you believe that Allah in the Qur'an is Jesus(peace and blessings be upon him)...
The Koranic Allah is definitely not the Biblical Jesus. Period.
In their imitation process, the authors of the Koran attempted to re-assign the deity of the Biblical Jesus to their newly created god “Allah”, and then wrap him in Biblical stories from Genesis to Revelation…
Was this a translation error…..or an attempt at creating a fictional opus…?
is that what you think Islam is trying to show us? just curious.
What Islam is trying to show us, and what the Koran clearly states are two entirely different things…
Sura 86 clearly tells us that we should worship Jesus as God Almighty…
Tell me….is this what Islam proclaims…?
Apple Pie wrote:
As we already know, the Koran claims that Jesus is the Messiah. Even the Koran is unwilling to make the claim that Jesus (the Messiah) can be associated with the god “Allah”, hence the promotion of the “believers” that claim that the god “Allah” is NOT the Messiah Jesus.
i don't follow... the Qur'an says that Jesus(peace and blessings be upon him) is the Messiah.
Agreed…
the Qur'an says that people who say "Allah is the Messiah" are disbelievers...making the believers the ones who says "Allah is NOT the Messiah". then you say that Allah is a man-made God that can never be equal to the real God[Jesus(peace and blessings be upon him) as you say]. but yet you still maintain that the Qur'an confirms that Jesus(peace and blessings be upon him) is God. are you saying that the believers(the ones who say "Allah is NOT the Messiah") are worshipping a "false" God in Allah?
Again…this gets back to who or what you think “Allah” is…..
do you believe it was the author's(of the Qur'an) intention to show that Jesus(peace and blessings be upon him) is God?
Yes….and that is exactly what they did…
not true...you just made a statement that caught my attention and i was interested in what you had to say...thats all. i am quite interested in the topic at hand. you'll just have to forgive me cause i'm not much of a formal debator...i ask questions and observe what others have to say...then apply that to what i think and what i already know...does that make sense? i do not mean to divert attention away from the title of this thread...u put a lot of work in and it deserves attention. please don't think i don't appreciate or ignore what you have to say.
No problem…
again, i can't really answer this. but i can re-stress my point and hopefully you can answer your own question. again, i apologize. the definition you provided me stated that the word meant; "to take a third of a thing". is "a third" the same as "1/3" ? i thought so. i used fractions to illustrate what i was trying to say. if you were to divide the "thirds" into threes, you would then have nine parts. each third would have to be split. thats not what i was saying. my reasoning is that a "singular thing", as mentioned in the definition provided, is divided into thirds(3 parts). which is why i asked how many whole numbers this fraction is...3/3(three thirds)?
i applied that reasoning to my understanding of the Trinity...which is ONE GOD(a singular thing) being divided into THREE(thirds) equal members[or vantage points](each fully God). it is not 3 seperate Gods, they are all the SAME GOD...right? does this not meet the definition you provided: "to take a third of a thing"?
I understand your rational, however, I think that you may be attempting to insert the root “thalatha”, from which both of these words are derived, into your understanding of what the Koran is stating.
Using your current trend of reasoning, then you should be stating a ONE of ONE.
The Koran is stating a THIRD “thalithu” of THREE “thalathatin”.
It is not stating a THIRD of ONE….
i thought you showed the usage of a word that meant a third of one? not three seperate, but three parts of a singular unit...isn't that what the word "Thalathatun" means?...a third of a single?
Where did I ever say that….?
Perhaps you are confusing the root word with the actual word…?
yes i have...are you implying that the third of three(in 5:73) is talking about Mary and Jesus(peace and blessings be upon them) being God's next to Allah?
Yes…
no this cannot be the same...why? because this passage is talking about two others, seperate from Allah being equals to him. while the other is talking about "thirds" of a single Allah(God). how can Mary and Jesus(peace and blessings be upon them) be thirds of Allah?
It is clear that the Koran sets-up the premise of THREE gods.
This is clear from 5:73, in which a THIRD of THREE is mentioned. Applying this Koranic understanding to 5:116, we can see that the authors’ of the Koran thought that Jesus, Mary, and Allah were the THREE gods.
Thus, you can see more clearly their notion of dividing these THREE in thirds…but only one was the “real” god…
it doesn't benefit either of us for it to be re-stated. all i was trying to show was that you recognized a single God in three vantage points or whatever you want to call them...showing or not showing does nothing to affect my point, which was re-itteration of what you told me about each member being equal. "EACH is the one God, from different vantage points..." three vantage points...yet all the same God?...right?
Yes…each is the one God…
Thanks…