Christian/Muslim ThreadsAllah used By Christians and Jews before Islam ?No, you did not understand. I said you ignored my question, though you did testify to your position, you did not respond to the second part of the question, which was in regards to the use of the word, whether as a name or as a title. Yes, you did say that it was a name, but you did not answer how it was that it is a name, and yet you claim that it is the same Hebrew God Yehovah. Also, I have no idea as to what you are talking about when you say my skepticism. I am not doing anything but pointing out the problem that you did not solve. Yehovah does not mean this. Here is what my lexicon says: יהוה Yahweh, the proper name of the God of Israel. 1. MT Yehovah, or Yehovih. Many scholars explain YHVH as Hiph. of היה =) הוה )the one bringing into being, life-giver (cf. הוה Gen 3:20) Schr HSch ; giver of existence, creator, Kue Tiele; he who brings to pass (so already Le Clerc), performer of his promises; or from he who causes to fal, rain or lightening; ‘faller,’ destroying foes. But most take it as Qal of הוה (היה=); the one who is; i.e., the absolute and unchangeable one, Ri; the existing, ever-living, as self-consistent and unchangeable, Di; or the one ever coming into manisfestation as the God of redemption, De Oehl; he will be it, ie.e, all that his servants look for, he will approve himself (give evidence of being, assert his being). I. יהוה is not used by E in Gn, but is given Ex 3:12-15 as the name of the God who revealed himself to Moses at Horbe, and is explained thus: I shall be with thee (v. 12), which is then implied in Ehyeh asher Eyeh (אהיה אשר אהיה), I shall be the one who will be it (v. 14a) (i.e. with thee v. 12) and then compressed into אהיה (v.14b) (i.e. with thee v. 12), which then is given in the nominal form יהוה, He who will be it (v. 15) (i.e. with thee v. 12) Other interpretations are: I am he who I am, i.e. it is no concern of yours (Le Clerc); I am, (this is my name), inasmuch as I am (אשר =כי); Di al. I am who I am, he who is essentially unnameable, inexplicable. ISBN 1-56563-206-0 THE BROWN-DRIVER-BRIGGS HEBREW AND ENGLISH LEXICON: WITH AN APPENDIX CONTAINING THE BIBLICAL ARAMAIC Hendrickson Publishes, Inc., PO Box 3473, Peabody, Mass. 01961-3478, Sixth Printing —August 2001 And here is what Moses Maimonides (12th Century Jew) writes about it: Then God taught Moses how to teach them, and how to establish amongst them the believe in the existence of Himself, namely, by saying Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh, (אהיה אשר אהיה), a name derived from the verb hayah ( היה ) in the sense of “existing,” for the verb hayah denotes “to be,” and in Hebrew no difference is made between the verbs “to be” and “to exist.” The principal point in this phrase is that the same word which denotes “existence,” is repeates as an attribute. The word asher, “that,” corresponds to the Arabic illadi and illati, and is an incomplete noun that must be completed by another noun ; it may be considered as the subject of the predicate which follows. The first noun which is to be described is ehyeh; the second, by which the first is described, is likewise ehyeh, the identical word, as if to show that the object which is to be described and the attribute by which it is described are in this case necessarily identical. This is, therefore, the expression of the idea that God exists, but not in the ordinary sense of the term; or, in other words, He is “the existing being which is the existing Being,” that is to say, the Being whose existence is absolute. The Guide for The Perplexed by Moses Maimonides; The Names of God (Chapter LXIII; page 94-95), Dover Publications, Inc., New York And then here is what Rina-Valera has to say about it: This phrase explains the personal name of the God of Israel, associating it to the Hebrew verb hayah, which means “to be, “to exist”, and on occasions “to happen”. According to some interpreters, the same verb, when being repeated, reinforces its meaning and acquires greater intensity, in a way that “I am who I am”, is equivalent to “Y am the one that exists (real existence) and by his own self.” (i.e. self existence) Reina-Valera 1995; Edicion de Estudios, Published by Sociedad Biblica Americana, New York. Just as a side note, there is another form of the same name which is YehYeh or YahYah ( יהיה ). Where is all the information to support this claim? As you can see, I provided clear evidence of what the name means, by breaking of the letters in it. Why is there no example of how ALLH contains ‘assamad’ in it? And it is not simply that the name is used in conjunction with those other attributes, but how it is that the name itself comes off to mean that. As you can see, ‘ehyeh’ has the meaning of ‘self-existing’ or ‘to be’ or ‘to happen’. And in a double application of it, it has the meaning of absolute-existence, as it is clearly expressed in the writings of the Biblical writers, and in the expressions of Jesus as being ‘fully self-existent’, as the Father is. Strange, that illah, Allah, El, Eloah, Elohim are supposed to have the same root, and are very similar in writing, yet you claim that Allah is the equivalent of a name that cannot be translated to the Arabic? How much sense does that make? Imagine, the Arabic alphabet is even similar, and some word such as Shalom and Salaam are so similar to eachother, yet YHVH cannot be written in Arabic? What about the name of Joshua (Yehoshua) which is translated as Yasu (notice the Ya, from Yah, in there!), yet you sit here telling me that YHVH cannot be translated as with such characters? Perhaps not crazy, but just misguided. Yea, I don’t blame myself either. I am bilingual, aiming to be tetra-lingual, or perhaps more. I would like to know your sources, and please do give me information that I can verify for myself. I have no idea what you are talking about. So far, I have given you both Christian and Jewish sources, which explain in detail the understanding of the name, the root, and the meaning of the first giving of the name to Moses. Whatever you have in your mind, it must be non-related to this subject. Ah, so this is why you were trying to say that the Jews disagree with Christians, so that you could make an interjection in the argument, trying to make your argument on grounds of so-called ‘confusion’. LOL! Sorry, but Christians and Jews agree on the subject! Please, if you are going to use a form of the name, use one, but don’t mix them. You either use Yehovah, or you use Yahweh – not a mixture of the two! The text that contains the name Yehovah, clearly use the ‘e’ form. Could you provide a source for this? I don’t know what you mean by “double hei”. Where is this coming from? The name is Yod, Hei, Vav, Hei. This does not mean anything. El is also used in the same form as llah, where it is found in YisraEl, JoEL, etc. And as you say, Allah and ilah share the same root, and since El shares the same root with ilah, then Allah, by default, shares the same root with El, which means that, if any equivalent use would be found in the Hebrew, it would come from El, as opposed to Yeh or Yah. Again, I ask that you give me these sources you are using, because as far as I know, and I have full scholarly support behind me, the use of Yah or Yeh in the names is a shorthand of the full name Yahweh or Yehovah. That is why in the translations of the names of biblical characters, we use the full name, e.g. Yehoshua means Jehovah is Salvation. It may sound similar, but that does not substantiate the claim. You have neither provided scholarly support for the supposed evolution, and so called “Hebrewization of the word”, which you claim. Theories are fine for the thought, but if they cannot be substantiated, then what are they good for? Again, I require some verification of this proposition. Can you provide it? See, I don’t know how you can’t see the problem with all these explanations you are giving, in which you clearly compare Allah to generic terms for ‘divinity’ or ‘deity’, and you claim that the name itself means ‘divinity’, yet you sit here and argue that it is the Arabic name of the Hebrew Yehovah, which in itself does not denote divinity, though it denotes power, self-existence, etc. From where does it come? Some Muslims claim that it comes from the Aramaic, which they say is Alah, but this would pose a problem, being that the Aramaic would contain terms closer to the Hebrew, than to the Arabic, being that the Hebrews did speak it in their homeland, way before the time of Christ, and as the evolution of language goes, many of the Hebrew words were very similarly written and pronounced in Aramaic, as they were in Hebrew. That is why the Lexicon I used to get the information on the Name of YHVH considered both the Hebrew and Aramaic. |
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