But what if he changed and did live a "so-called" good life?
It is my prayer that he comes to Christ Someday.
And I would think it should be pretty obvious in the case of those who live a nice life and claim to be Christians, but instead of separating from unbelievers, they associate very closely with them and exalt them to the highest positions in their organizations (i.e. Promisekeepers).
There are people who make that "Confession Of Faith" but never really accept that in their heart (They just say it because they feel it is the right thing to do) Mind you, The Holy Spirit hit me with his presence head-on at a Promise Keepers Covention. While I don't agree with everything that they are doing, the Lord still used the event to convict me of his presence.
Those are nice OT examples. But if they cause others to stumble because of the NT teachings on separation and decency and order, then they should be avoided.
That is why it is so important to read both the OT & NT together to understand what God is telling us.
Ahh, what a great word..... "jiggy"!!!! Always makes me smile for some reason. I guess it's just because it sounds so silly.
It is completely silly. Who knows who came up with it
That would be as silly as telling someone who told a lie that they are an athiest and they automatically going to hell. What I can do is the same thing that I'm trying to do with you - point them to the Word and explain that Christ calls us to live holy, separated lives - not lives that live as close to the world as possible, but just have an ounce of Jesus in them to ensure that they won't burn.
All well and good my friend. One could argue and say "Well if we are going to throw out the music because it is too close to "wordly" music, might as well throw out the church buildings too (Since they are constructed just as all of the other "worldly" buildings) Not to mention, the buildings themselves are secular to begin with (They will pass) It is the family of believers that makes the church
I'm not calling anyone "partially holy." I said that partial unholiness is no better that total unholiness, because any amount of sin causes us to be unholy. Therefore, I'm not saying they are partially unholy - I'm saying they are unholy. Don't take me the wrong way. I'm unholy too. I sin just as much as the next guy. Holiness is something none of us will achieve this side of heaven. But we should still be striving to be holy. And it's pretty easy to judge the actions of someone I don't know - if they're not following the guidelines of the Bible, they're unholy. Simple as that. I reckon that you didn't have a close relationship with Hitler, right? So how can you judge him? You look at his actions. Actions are reflective of what's in the heart. Hitler's actions were unholy, therefore we conclude that he was unholy.
You made your point there. But it is based on interpetations of the Word. A Biker could believe that he is living holy because he has a biker ministry in Sturgis, SD. In fact, there are several that do and they read and understand the word cover to cover. Just so happens they like riding Harleys and have some tatoos. Here is an example:
http://www.argusleader.com/sturgis/2001/08.06.01.shtml
No argument about that. But my point was that since the words of most Christmas songs are about Jesus, do you automatically conlude that the song and the singer is Christian?
If it comes down to it, you can't be sure ANYONE except yourself really truly believes. They take that to their grave with them. The important thing is where is YOUR relationship with God.
Amen to that! But would you expect that his style of music would go unchanged?
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No, I can't. But I can't find a place that tells you explicitly that you shouldn't smoke either. Nor can I find a place that tells you explicitly that you shouldn't surf the Internet for porn. But you would agree that these are principles that are taught in the Bible, right?
Destruction of the temple (Body) is definately taught in scripture, no argument there.
The true church is made up of the body of believers. If a local assembly chooses to use a contemporary style of worship, they are responsible to God for that choice. It's not my place to decide whether or not they are true believers, but I can look at the fruit of their lives for an indication. Those who live in disobedience to God's Word may be doing so for any number of reasons - perhaps out of ignorance; perhaps they are backslidden; perhaps they are not saved. God knows for sure. I am only responsible to teach the principles of the Word and bring others to repentance, not for making a decision on their salvation.
Grace Church where I goto has both Traditional And Contemporary. As with any church, there are people there that are there for only "Socializing" But the great majority are there to praise God and be with their Brothers And Sisters.
Then why did you say that God needs to turn your music into something that glorifies Him?
No he CAN turn any music into something that glorifies him. I believe the music that I play definately fits with Scripture
Or perhaps it's only right because your liberal outlook says it is. Maybe the fact that you think being as close to the world as possible, while ignoring that God commands you to be separate, is enough for you to justify it in your mind. But is that enough to justify it to God?
Actually I am a conservative believe it or not. Can't stand Liberalism. We do live in this world after all. We are called to be IN it but not OF it. If you see how I live my life, I think you would agree that I am definately not OF this world.
So, what? Only things that cause people to die of cancer are bad? Perhaps the studies done on style of music and their relation to violent, rebellious behavior don't mean a thing after all. I mean, at least it doesn't cause cancer. Maybe the fact that listening to loud music (which typically this style of music is played loudly) can have a detrimental affect on ones hearing abilities doesn't really matter because, as you pointed out, at least it doesn't cause cancer.
This point is going to turn silly really quick and is getting a bit off topic. Lots of things cause Cancer. If the music is too loud, there is a volume button. Nuff Said.
Have you ever posed this question to a Christian who smokes? They can tell you a few things that they believe can be beneficial. One of which is the fact that they are able to associate with other smokers and possibly lead them to Christ, an opportunity that they may not have had if they weren't smokers. But does this mean that it is ok for them to smoke? No. The ends do not justify the means.
Yes and I get the same negative responses: It calms their nerves (Wrong it raises their heartbeat hence why they need another cigarette so quickly) If they say they reach other people by smoking, I believe they are making an excuse so they can keep smoking. I talk to alot of people about God while they are outside smoking (I don't smoke myself)
This is the same argument that Christians make when they get married to non-Christians, even though the Bible forbids it. They think they will have the opportunity to witness to their nonbelieving spouse and win them to Christ. But does this mean it's ok for them to be unequally yoked? No.
I was basically an agnostic when me and my wife got together. For a short time while we were married, I rejected God altogether. Mind you I was in a very unstable mental state at the time (Deep Depression) Fortunately, that all changed with the help of my wife and many others. I have always yearned to believe and know the truth, but for a while I was very confused about what that truly meant.
Come to think of it, this is the same argument that CCMers use to justify their music. You think it will give you an inroad to reaching the lost. But in reality, all you do is solidify their impression of Christians as hypocrits. Why would they want to be converted if there is basically no change in your lifestyle and you can still listen to the same music? This is why God wants us to be separate so we can win the world through our differences. We will not win the world for Christ through our similarities, rather we will drive it away from Him.
Do you think Michael W. Smith is the same now as he was when he was an unbeliever? What about Sandi Patti, Bill Gaither and those folks? Music is how they praise God and serve him. Are they all wrong as well?[/quote]