Joseph wrote:I do not believe Muslims are pagans in any sense, and know Muslims find notion they worship in sameness of pagans, repulsive. Muslims believe in the Supreme Being who created all things and desire to honor him. I hold their worship is duly offered to the true God, but is not acceptable outside of faith in Jesus Christ (Matthew 15.9 - "In vain do they worship me"). Whether I offend Muslims, Jews or Christians in having said this, is hardly a concern. The only boat I want be in, is that which carries my Lord Jesus. The Name above all names is Jesus. No apologizes, no special pleading to Judaism, no soft peddling, no your religion for you and my religion for me(that should go without saying).
I have no problem with this Joseph, this was not my issue
Joseph wrote:Muslims esp Arab are a people I know and love, that does not change because I am Christian. Following quote by an honorable Christian man pretty well sums up my attitude. "Militant Christian writers say Allah cannot be a representation of the true God because, according to the Qur'an, he is not Triune, he has no Son, etc. Well then, the Yahweh of the Jews today cannot be the true God either because they maintain that he too is not Triune and also has no Son. At least Islam acknowledges Jesus as a man sent from God but the Jews say Yahweh did not send Jesus at all!"--John Gilchrist. Even worse, Mr. Gilchrist, even worse.
Neither was this, I have no problem with what you said above
Joseph wrote:I find your method of argument, underhanded, making an assertion then shifting the burden of proof. Though nothing is owed to you, I will comment for the sake of the readers here, and hopefully they will taken it upon themselves to discover the truth. Nowhere in the Arabic Bible is Yahweh replaced with Allah[1], also Yahweh is intentionally never used in new covenant context i.e. NT books, notwithstanding in which language its published . Hammer to make it fit, but Allah does not mean I AM[2]. Never was it my contention Muslim claiming Allah is The Name means a foreign god[3], and because you're thick I will repeat and expand on what I said earlier in second part of reply .
The bold red had nothing to do with my issue in which I never raised
Joseph wrote:This is also the theological position of Christian Arabs and difference in usage of term Allah.
H2O Responded:
If I undertand you correctly on this I do not see much difference among Arab Christians with the use of the word in their mother tongue to be different from how muslims use the word. Even in the Arabic bible which I would say is more closer to the Hebrew than the english is, where the tetragrammaton "YHWH" is used in Hebrew it is translated as Allah in the Arabic bible.
I have only read the Arabic Bible once so before I stooped to low with this I said:
H2O wrote: .. never recall ever seing in the Arabic bible the name Allah being used for another deity other than the all mighty creator. I have only read the Arabic bible once so you have to excuse me if I missed something that you can point out to me.
Now, when i made this I assumed being that you were Christian that you may have believed the circulating propaganda that the name Allah is a contraction of the two Arabic words "al-ilah" ~ The G-D.
These forums have been smothered with this off the wall concept in which they say al-ilah was the designated title of the pagan moon god called Hubal at Makkah and through out the various other parts of Arabia it ws called Sin, or Nanna, that later was contracted as Allah.
This is far from true and a blunt expression of ignorance of the science of the language.
My appologies if I seem to go off the topic here I just want to broaden things here between you and I so you can understand where I am coming from.
The First place the name YHWH is mention is in Genesis 2:4 (This is the elohist text of the bible in which the Yawist text of the bible does not use the word elohiym)
Before that the name Elohiym is used for G-D which is translated into Arabic as Allah
Genesis 2:4 هذه مبادئ السموات والارض حين خلقت . يوم عمل
الرب الاله الارض والسموات
In Genesis 2:4 where the name YHWH is first mentioned it is translated as "arrabbu
al-ilah" which is translated in english as "The Lord G-d"
Now, not for you Joseph but, for all those who claim the name Allah is a contraction of "al-ilah"and that the name Allah means The G-d in the arabic bible, the name Yhwh is translated into Arabic as "arrabbu
al-ilah" which would be Allah's name in its uncontracted form.
Needless to say I do not believe Allah is a contraction of al-ilah and it has absolutely no association with those two words. If you, Joseph, believe the name is a contraction then I have produced my proof. If not, then yes I would agree with you that name Yhwh is not translated into the Arbaic bible as Allah but as "arabbu al-ilah" being a synonym of the name Allah as elohiym and Yhwh are both sysnomous in Hebrew.
In Islam "Arrabb(u)" The Lord is one of Allah's 99 main names in which "al-ilah" is never associated with him as one of his names.
2)
but Allah does not mean I AM
Omega wrote:It is written: Quote:
Exodus 3:14 - And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
I AM THAT I AM:And not Allah! or the other Allah.
H2O Responded:
Ok now lets see what the Quran says as to this event in history:
Quote:
[20] But when he came to the fire, a voice was heard: "O Musa!
[20] "Verily I am thy Lord! therefore (in My presence) put off thy shoes: thou art in the sacred valley Tuwa.
[20] "I have chosen thee: listen, then to the inspiration (sent to thee).
[20] "Verily I am, I am Allah: there is no god but I: so serve thou Me (only), and establish regular prayer for celebrating My praise.
In Hebrew G-D says in bible: "..ahyah ashar ahyah.." and in the Quran its says "..innanee anaa Alllaah.."
The Bible
..ahyah ashar ahyah.. ~ I am that I am
The Quran
..innanee anaa Alllaah.. ~ Verily I am, I am Alllaah
Verily close isnt it ? Hmm maybe the Jews edited the name out from text leaving "...ahyah ashar ahyah.." as an incomplete thaught cause it was too HOLY to pronounce and then they incrypted the name as yhwh as part of Jewish Kabbalahism. Thus leading people like Gentiles and then later Christians to be in delima as to "...ahyah ashar ahyah.." as to what it meant or what it is refering to.
The above is my opinion. Even before islam when I read the Hebrew there seemed to be an edit or an incomplete thought of the statement.
"ahyah" ~ translated as "I am" comes from the Hebrew root hyh which means to exist or to be
The name Yahwh does not carry the same above hebrew root. The root of this word is stemed to the Aramaic root "hwh" which is synomous with the hebrew root hyh to make the association of Yahwh with such root when in it self does not carry the Hebrew root characters. This is how christian scholars associated Exodus 3:14 which is widely rejected by Jewish Scholars.
I never said or implied that the name Allah meant " I am" however one of Allah's names Al-Hayy ~ The Living one comes from the same root as ahyah ~ I am, and also "Assamad" ~ The Self Existing Eternal One another of Allah's names in the Quran are the equivalants of Yhwh.