Christian/Muslim ThreadsThe moon god - al-ilahWell then dont continue with me. I have not with drawn from my statement, it is a Jewish Idiom as the Quran indicates it as used by the Jews in the time of Jesus, and the hadith of our prophet that supports it. So, no, I dont need to go to the Talmud for support, plus this would be against what WE agreed upon from the begining that you keep retreating to whenever we start criticizing the bible. You been violating this through out all the threads by interjecting your own beliefs from what you have been indoctrinated with from the Bible, and other propagated criticism. And then when we start criticizing your foundation you revert to the above agreement. How lame. Mereless, you have not studied the Quran and hadith collectively in their authoritive status, but rather, your form of education is learned by bias propaganda other than scientifical research from the sources it self. You stated before that such idiom does not exist in the Talmud, again how do you know this when you have never read the Talmud ? I asked you for a certain reference to the Talmud in which you never replied to proving to our audience that you read the Talmud before. Now are you lieing ? Now how many times have you been dishonest in reference to the Quran and hadith ? Well I leave that for the people to decide. Prove to us that you have read the Talmud, and then we will show you, unless, you see it first where the term "Brother of Levi" , a Jewish Idiom of purity refering to one of Levite lineage and brotherhood, antonymous of Sister of Aaron, a Jewish Idiom of purity refering to one of Aaronite lineage and sisterhood. It took me 3 years to read through all those volumes of the Talmud, I dont think a person of your prejudice would have been so patient in doing this due to its content toward Christianity it self. Anyhow, you reneged again and went against your own words from before as we where suppose to stick to and agreed on: You are the one that invited the Talmud into this, so your the one that has to prove it not me, when in our teachings it tells us it is a Jewish Idiom. You called me a bluff , I would think here for you to bring this up it is something that you your self is guilty of. Further we will not answer your Question until you answer ours since it was you that introduced the Talmud into this, and whereas we first asked the Question in the above quote to prove you have read the Talmud before. Hmm. Lets see there are two possible ways man could have multiplied. We agree that Adam and his wife bared two sons called Cain and Abel, but it makes no mention of their daughters.
Please note the above was summerized from Geneses Chap 1-4:17 http://www.biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bib ... ersion=NIV IF we take this chronologically to be exact as Cain and Abel were the two sons of Adam, making no mention of daughters, and then all of a sudden Cain has a wife, then it is reasoned that there had to be other people on earth before Adam in which Cain married one of their daughters which would contradict Adam being the father of mankind or the first man G-D created. But however the above is the atheist views. Not the Christian, Jewish, or Islamic views. The Christian, and Jewish views is that Cain's wife was his own sister (Lit.) in which G-D allowed (The sister and brother marriage) for a period of time for man to multiply then later prohibited in which the verses of Genensis are summerized in. Thus would give purpose for people to marry their Aunts and Uncles etc (as what we call incest today) before the Torah, in which it was allowed and was perfectly ok. (Note: Not all Christians agree to this though) The Islamic view is divided on this. Some muslims hold the same views as Jews and Christians which are merely adopted in which the Quran and Hadith DO NOT SUPPORT. The others believe that G-D in the begining multiplied men through the daughters, and grand daughters of Adam and his wife the same way he made it possible for Maryam to give birth to Jesus without a male father. Thus Cain's wife could of been also his cousin rather than his sister as marrying your cousin is not prohibited, and has ever since been a practice, whereas they lived prolonged ages to see 6-8 generations of their families and Kin. Also to add to this G-D sent prophets through out the world to every nation even before the Torah, in which the Jews were not the only nation to receive a Law. I hold to the last view as I do not believe that Alllaah (G-D) ever allowed such thing of one marrying his sister etc. Of course we muslims look at the birth of Jesus as a miracle and a manifestation of Alllaah's power in which He could have also done in the past and not just to Maryam alone. Why do I say this ? Cause there is numerous religions that existed before Christianity and Judaism that have simular beliefs of men being born just like that of Jesus. Interesting thougth. Then you should know by now that Zainab was not a slave woman. She came from a wealthy family who were owners of slaves themselves (smile). Yes they are the same with the difference in their pronoun usage. {For any of our audience that would like an Arabic Speaking Christian to verify this please goto www.arabicbible.com and email them the inquiry of the two verses we mentioned.} Why your gadget couldnt translate simple elementary words is beyond me. I think we produced valid proof in the transliteration with their comparisons showing the word for word usage in both verses. Obviously this isnt a challenge for you cause you dont speak Arabic. So how would you know ? No, the verses are not ambiguous they are clear. So tell me, out of all the 73 versions of the Bible there are interpolated ( ) into their translations so does this mean they are ambiguos? { I hope our audience is paying attention} { For our audience, through out our debates, has not Mr/Ms Liberate ie The Wishful Thinker been slandering and assualting our Prophet and the Religion of Islam ? ) Now, if you (The Wishful Thinker) think thats all, we got more, and I am not coming from a website, we are coming from actual SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH and STUDY of the bible. Want to quiz me if I ever read the Bible ? {Wink} You quoted leviticus which is part of the 636 Laws of the Torah. Part of these Laws of G-D also say: But later on G-D is commading to kill people. If you havent been paying attention G-D instructed his Prophet to sleep with a whore. A contradiction to the Levitical 18:19 verses you posted. [Maybe everyone thought if G-D could do it then so can they] Also Amram marrying his Aunt and having children from her was BEFORE Leviticus was revealed. Remember the Torah was not revealed until after Moses was Married, the same with Micah, Isaac, Jacob, Perez, and Michal, they were all before the Torah was revealed. So now we are left with David and Soloman etc. They had multiple wives whos number of wives have been unheard of, but where in the Torah does it prohibit poligamous marriage. They had all these wives but still retained the Status of being the Prophets of G-D. Nope. She wasnt his wife any more she was long divorced before the prophet married her. And no Muhammad was not Zaids father. Please dont get your Jerry Springer stereo of the American culture concepts mixed up into this. You always changing the topic. I didnt present that you did. We started about speaking about the name Allah and then you Jumped on the issue of Aisha (ra) then Maryam, then Zaid etc... The original topic was about the name Allah I never introduced this you did. You couldnt stay to a topic then went off into your enimty and prejudice wantoness.
Its not what you think, remember, it is what does the material say. Nothing of the such that you indicated exist in the contexts. This is your own interpolation and interjection of your Wishful Thinking ideas. Anyhow it is for our Audience to decide. I posted the full hadith in its context that you edited with the Quranic verses in thier context for our audience to determine if it indicates sex play as what you allege. And your missing the point to the hadith, they upset the prophet with their little game they played. No incorrect. It was a remark towards your pathetic statement [ This is the most illogical excuse I have ever heard for a man to want to divorce his wife, absolutely ridiculous ] that was your interjection of your idea that I associated the Jerry Springer show with not the hadith. Ehm. I think you are getting you Zaids mixed up here: The Zaid reporting the hadith is the third transmitter of the hadith long after Zaid son of Haritha. As again you have bad reading comprehension: Ibn Zaid is the third tranmitter of the hadith who is not the Zaid spoken of in the hadith. Try eating some honey it will clear your mind. Seems to me you answered your own question. With the exception of them being idolators. Who said their wives were EXCESSIVE. I will like our audience to think about this. From pages 2-5 of this forum who was attacking who ? On this forum page(6) I merely turned the mirror for him to see himself because as he said " like Jesus said take out the beam before you take out the mote in your neighbour's eye " . Again who attaked who first ? I merely showed him the "mote or prick" in his eye. Rather than him/her asking questions as to such and such he/she made allegations with questions or questions with their answers to their allegations. If the audience hasnt figured out his/her intentions yet of how we went from speaking about the name Allah then to 4-5 different other topics that have absolutely nothing to do with topic of the forum then go get your self a glass of coffee, make sure to use some HONEY (smile), and then start reading from page 1-6 again...lol. If you be Christian or whatever if you would like to study islam from a non dictatorial view you can goto http://www.islamasoft.co.uk/downloads.html to download the Quran and the Hadiths for free. Being that the Quran was revealed first to our Prophet (s.a.w.) it is likewise in the same manner to reading and studying the Quran first then the hadith. If anyone has a questions you can email us at akiadorah@aol.com please indicate subjest as "Question As To Quran" other wise it will be regarded as spam. Prove to us ( the muslims and the audience) that you have read the Talmud, and then we will show you, unless, you see it first where the term Brother of Levi , a Jewish Idiom of purity refering to one of Levite lineage and brotherhood, antonymous of Sister of Aaron, a Jewish Idiom of purity refering to one of Aaronite lineage and sisterhood......... You are the one that invited the Talmud into this, so your the one that has to prove it not me, when in our teachings it tells us it is a Jewish Idiom. You called me a bluff , I would think here for you to bring this up it is something that you your self is guilty of..... Further we will not answer your Question until you answer ours since it was you that introduced the Talmud into this, and whereas we first asked the Question in the above quote to prove you have read the Talmud before.[color] |
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