Several times he has stated that this is jewish idiom, several times I have asked him to show us where this jewish idiom is in judaism, he has refused and has now given us an incredible linguistic and semantic acrobatics, he shows us an arabic dictionary that the word qawm really means clan, a phantom clan of the aaronites who Mary was affiliated with that never commited adultery(ofcourse there is no source for this but him and him alone), in other words he wants us to believe the verse is really saying that it refers to family, relatives or ancestors according to his dictionary submeanings. In other words he wants us to believe the verse really means:
I dont want you to believe anything. It is not why I am here. Again the Quran stated the act which they accused her of doing which was something unheard-of to her "qawm", which is not refering to the Jews in general whom many of them have a long history of commiting adultry and fornication.
Not so fast, it was you that stated
repeatedly that this was
jewish idiom, and that you have produced the proof in
the talmud. Let me be blunt if you are unable to provide the proof
I will no longer engage in a conversation with a liar.
It is not the same
Did you read what I typed?
Quote:
""So peace is on me the day I was born, the day that I die , and the day that I shall be raised up to life (again)"!"
Why is that word in bold in there?
Let us put aside this obvious fabricated commentary that Mohammed simply regurgitated that both John and Jesus said, why is that word in bold in there?, coincidentally it is not in there for John
Why dont you you go use your little online tool translator see what if gives you. There is no "again" in the Arabic this is merely the translators own interpolation. " why is that word in bold in there?, coincidentally it is not in there for John " Hmm lets see have you ever went back to the the translation of which you obtained that verse from to check the verse with John to see if (again) is also with John. Who is lieing here ? You never read the Quran but your making this blunt statement but fail to produce the proof from the translation.
Again you have never read the Quran not even the translations, but yet you make remark about what the Quran says or doesnt say. Hmm as I said your a wishful thinker. The above is the translation of Abdullah Yusaf Ali.
This is what the online translation gives for that verse to make any logical sense of it:
peace on him the day he is born, the day he dies, and the day he is being sent to come!
but this is the literal word for word translation: A peace was born on him and a day dies and a day is being sent to come!
If you are wondering why the above is unintelligible you are not alone this is where personal interpolations () come in, I read a scholar who was to authenticate a quran fragment said one in six of the arabic could not be properly translated.
Prejudice man. That is what you are. You apply that online translation tool to that verse but not to the verse with Jesus let just see what it says :
Source text:
وَ السَّلامُ عَلَيَّ يَوْمَ وُلِدتُّ وَ يَوْمَ أمُوتُ وَ يَوْمَ أُبْعَثُ حيًّا
Target text:
The peace on me day is وُلِدتُّ day I die and day I send a quarter
That is what it translated for the statement of Jesus. It couldnt translate it, in which your little gadget failed the test to know how to translate Quranic Arabic which is not like modern Arabic
Didn't you say they were the same? for John and Jesus so why couldn't it translate it? Isn't the truth the verses are ambiguous, and open to interpretation by the translater and because of this allah has to be helped with the translator's interpolations (), a bit strange since this is suppose to be in pure arabic a child can understand, allah has failed. Your comment about modern arabic different from quranic arabic is plain laughable, and simply shows the depth a muslim apologist will stoop to, either it is corrupt or it is being interpreted wrong, or maybe it's israeliyyat hadiths.
Quote:
Zaid went on until he came to her and she was fermenting her flour. He (Zaid) said: As I saw her I felt in my heart an idea of her greatness so much so that I could not see towards her (simply for the fact) that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) had made a mention of her [Let us get this straight Mohammed told his son to go and mention him to his son's wife? the son goes to his wife and feels her greatness??? do you honestly believe this?]
Quote:
Zaid was his adopted son not his real son or biological son.
What is this suppose to prove? it is ok to sleep with your adopted son's wife?
So this is it. Your trying to degrade our Prophet
I don't have to do that his sunnah does a better job
cause he married his adopted son's wife. I dont see anything wrong with that. Who declaired such a thing as immoral or against the will of G-D ?
I think it's time I drew the line I will no longer conduct this conversation if you are to insult the nature of God, claiming this abomination of an act was the will of God. Your god cannot possibly be ours.
"Hey daddy if you want to sleep with my wife you can have her" is no behaviour befitting a prophet of God.
Exodus 6:20
Amram married his father's sister Jochebed, who bore him Aaron and Moses. Amram lived 137 years.
(Whole Chapter: Exodus 6 In context: Exodus 6:19-21)
Here we have in the Bible a man marrying his Aunt who never was condemned for it, neither by G-D, or his people. Obviously it seemed ok to marrying and having children with your aunt.
Genesis 20
11 Abraham replied, "I said to myself, 'There is surely no fear of God in this place, and they will kill me because of my wife.' 12 Besides, she really is my sister, the daughter of my father though not of my mother; and she became my wife.
Seems like it was ok here to. Tons of incest in the bible as what we call it in American, or was it considered such a thing back then ? Lets get some more
Micah: Sister of Lot, married their uncle, Nahor. "The name of Nahor's wife was Milcah; she was the daughter of Haran, the father of both Milcah and Iscah." (Gen 11:29) NIV
Isaac: Abraham's son married his own second cousin, Rebekah. "Some time later Abraham was told, 'Milcah is also a mother; she has borne sons to your brother Nahor: Uz the firstborn, Buz his brother, Kemuel (the father of Aram), Kesed, Hazo, Pildash, Jidlaph and Bethuel.' Bethuel became the father of Rebekah." (Gen 22:20-23) NIV
Jacob: Married two of his first cousins, daughters of his mother's brother. "Now Laban had two daughters; the name of the older was Leah, and the name of the younger was Rachel… he took his daughter Leah and gave her to Jacob, and Jacob lay with her… Jacob lay with Rachel also" (Gen 29:16-30) NIV
Perez: The twin brother of Zerah, they are the offspring of Judah and his son's wife Tamar. "When Tamar was told, 'Your father-in-law is on his way to Timnah to shear his sheep,' she took off her widow's clothes, covered herself with a veil to disguise herself… When Judah saw her, he thought she was a prostitute, for she had covered her face. Not realizing that she was his daughter-in-law, he went over to her by the road-side and said, 'Come now, let me sleep with you.'… When the time came for her to give birth, there were twin boys in her womb. (Gen 38:13-27) NIV
Michal: Originally betrothed to David, she was later wed to Paltiel until David kidnapped her. "David said: 'I will make an agreement with you. But I demand one thing of you: Do not come into my presence unless you bring Michal daughter of Saul when you come to see me.' Then David sent messengers to Ish-Bosheth son of Saul, demanding, 'Give me my wife Michal, whom I betrothed to myself for the price of a hundred Philistine foreskins.' So Ish-Bosheth gave orders and had her taken away from her husband Paltiel" (2 Sam 3:13-15) NIV
Bathsheba: Conceived her first son by David while still married to Uriah. "The man said, 'Isn't this Bathsheba, the daughter of Eliam and the wife of Uriah the Hittite?' Then David sent messengers to get her. She came to him, and he slept with her." (2 Sam 11:3-4) NIV
The beginning of the word of the LORD by Hosea. And the LORD said to Hosea, Go, take unto thee a wife of whoredoms and children of whoredoms: for the land hath committed great whoredom, departing from the LORD.
(Whole Chapter: Hosea 1 In context: Hosea 1:1-3)
Leviticus 18:5 Ye shall therefore keep my statutes, and my judgments: which if a man do, he shall live in them: I am the LORD.
18:6 None of you shall approach to any that is near of kin to him, to uncover their nakedness: I am the LORD.
18:7 The nakedness of thy father, or the nakedness of thy mother, shalt thou not uncover: she is thy mother; thou shalt not uncover her nakedness.
18:8 The nakedness of thy father's wife shalt thou not uncover: it is thy father's nakedness.
18:9 The nakedness of thy sister, the daughter of thy father, or daughter of thy mother, whether she be born at home, or born abroad, even their nakedness thou shalt not uncover.
18:10 The nakedness of thy son's daughter, or of thy daughter's daughter, even their nakedness thou shalt not uncover: for theirs is thine own nakedness.
18:11 The nakedness of thy father's wife's daughter, begotten of thy father, she is thy sister, thou shalt not uncover her nakedness.
18:12 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy father's sister: she is thy father's near kinswoman.
18:13 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy mother's sister: for she is thy mother's near kinswoman.
18:14 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy father's brother, thou shalt not approach to his wife: she is thine aunt.
18:15 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy daughter in law: she is thy son's wife; thou shalt not uncover her nakedness.
18:16 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of thy brother's wife: it is thy brother's nakedness.
18:17 Thou shalt not uncover the nakedness of a woman and her daughter, neither shalt thou take her son's daughter, or her daughter's daughter, to uncover her nakedness; for they are her near kinswomen: it is wickedness.
18:18 Neither shalt thou take a wife to her sister, to vex her, to uncover her nakedness, beside the other in her life time.
18:19 Also thou shalt not approach unto a woman to uncover her nakedness, as long as she is put apart for her uncleanness.
18:20 Moreover thou shalt not lie carnally with thy neighbor's wife, to defile thyself with her.
The more you paste this stuff the more I am certain you were never jewish just another islamic imposter. Who did the children of Adam marry? How did cain get his wife? Who did he get his wife from? At what point did marriage between close knit family groups come to a halt? [Hint: Leviticus 18]
Why don't you respond to the other hadiths I showed?
How many times are we going to tell you that if anything conflicts with Quran it is rejected. Just like you dont accept any hadith that speaks good about Muhammad you reject also.
So tell me, what does Safiyah have to do with Zaids marriage to Zainab or any of the topics formerly posted? Oh I see, now you are running off on another topic.
Are you even reading what you are pasting? This was a response to this post:
Quote:
About Surah 33:53
Muslim Book 008, Hadith Number 3328.
------------------------------
Chapter : Excellence of emancipating a slave-girl and then marrying her.
Anas (Allah be pleased with him) reported: I was sitting ...Allah, the Majestic and the Glorious, defeated them (the inhabitants of Khaibar), and there fell to the lot of Dihya a beautiful girl, and Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) got her in exchange of seven heads, and then entrusted her to Umm Sulaim so that she might embellish her and prepare her (for marriage) with him. He (the narrator) said: He had been under the impression that he had said that so that she might spend her period of 'Iddah in her (Umm Sulaim's) house. (The woman) was Safiyya daughter of Huyayy
why dont you read the rest of the hadith. It speaks of two different events of marriage.
The title I have highlighted in bold is enough to tell you what the topic is about
Quote:
About Surah 66: 1-4
Muslim Book 009, Hadith Number 3496-3497.
------------------------------
Chapter : Atonement is essential for one who made his wife unlawful for himself without the intention of divorce.
'Aisha (Allah be pleased with her) narrated that Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) used to spend time with Zainab daughter of Jahsh and drank honey at her house. She ('Aisha further) said: I and Hafsa agreed that one whom Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) would visit first should say: I notice that you have an odour of the Maghafir (gum of mimosa). He (the Holy Prophet) visited one of them and she said to him like this, whereupon he said: I have taken honey in the house of Zainab bint Jabsh and I will never do it again. It was at this (that the following verse was revealed): Why do you hold to be forbidden what Allah has made lawful for you... (up to). If you both ('Aisha and Hafsa) turn to Allah" up to: "And when the Holy Prophet confided an information to one of his wives" (lxvi. 3). This refers to his saying: But I have taken honey.
...
This is the hadith on the link I gave you
Quote:
Bukhari vol 3 43 648:... The Prophet did not go to his wives because of the secret which Hafsa had disclosed to 'Aisha, and he said that he would not go to his wives for one month as he was angry with them when Allah admonished him (for his oath that he would not approach Maria)
What do you think is happening here? which is the more logical hadith? Is this to do with a literal honey? or a cheating husband. What is the context of approach in this hadith? Remember the verses "approach your wives when and how ye will" .."do not approach them till they are clean".
Here we go again. The secret is that the two wives played a trick on the prophet with the honey in which the prophet had prohibited for himself in which 66:1-4 was revealed. And yes let us look at that half edited hadith you posted in it actual context that you have never read before except what has been dictated to you.
Do you honestly believe a wife would get upset with her husband to the point that her and hafsah would come against him and need the intervention of allah and jibreel and all the angels/jinns because he ate honey? are you that gullible?
Lets see what else your reading ability brought you to conclude
Zaid then went to the prophet and said to him, “I have been told that you came to my house so, by my father and mother, why didn’t you enter? Perhaps if Zaynab is desirous to you I shall leave her.” .[This is the most illogical excuse I have ever heard for a man to want to divorce his wife, absolutely ridiculous]
I almost thought here you werent an American. So tell me when last did you watch The Opra or Jerry Springer show ?
You would happily equate the behaviour of your prophet with an episode of the jerry springer show? I have to ask you then what are you doing in such a religion?
When Allah said, “Thou didst hide in thy heart that which Allah was about to make manifest,” means that the prophet hid in his heart his desire for Zaid to depart from Zaynab so that he may marry her, and Allah will reveal what you are concealing in your heart concerning this.
The Almighty said, “Thou didst fear the people, but it is more fitting that thou shouldst fear Allah,” because Allah was telling the prophet who feared people might say, “He ordered a man to divorce his wife so that he himself may marry her after she is divorced,” and Allah aught to be feared more than people.
Narrated by Younis, narrated by Ibn Wahab, narrated by Ibn Zaid who said, “The prophet –pbuh- had married Zaid son of Haritha to his cousin Zaynab daughter of Jahsh. One day the prophet – pbuh- went seeking Zaid in his house, whose door had a curtain made of hair. The wind blew the curtain and the prophet saw Zaynab in her room unclothed and he admired her in his heart. When Zaynab realized that the prophet desired her she began to hate Zaid
This is really interesting here. You and the narrator of that hadith are now playing the double Psychic roll now. Use your head. How did Younis know this . Who told him this and where is he getting this from. The hadith is "da'if" unauthentic. I can understand if he said the prophet told him, but nothing of the such is in the hadith.
The isnad includes Zaid, unless you believe Zaid is lying, that brings into question all the other hadiths by Zaid, remember the quirra hadith and how Zaid collected the koran maybe that is a lie too, you have to ask yourself some simple questions what does Younis or Zaid have to gain by lying? There are muslims what is in it for them? If they could predict these hadiths would be used against the prophet at a later future date that makes them better prophets than Mohammed.
It is truly amazing the muslim mentality that screams corruption on the many disturbing aspects of Mohammed's example. If we are truly serving the same God where are the stories of the disciples, Paul, Peter and Timothy et al., and the early church fathers marrying their son's wives, and declaring it scripture, it is simply laughable to believe this selfish mandate is anything to do with God.
I am curious why you bring this up, David was punished God let him know he had sinned, allah on the other hand gives Mohammed the thumbs up, something is clearly wrong
O really so please show our audience this punishment for this so called crime and also while your at it show us his admonishment for sleeping with another mans wife [ Note: We do not believe David did such unrightious things]
Of course you used to be jewish?
Quote:
And Also the number of wives our Prophet married in his life time is far more remote from that of number of wives the Jewish Prophets had at ONE TIME. While they still remained as prophets of G-D.
Which jewish prophets? Where is the record of thse prophets with mutiple wives? Do you know the difference between a prophet and a king?
Ofcourse they were still prophets while their excess wives led them to idolatry but they were still prophets?
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Let me remind you the topic started out with speaking about the moon god propaganda. We were suppose to be speaking about that, but however because of your enmity towards islam and our beloved prophet, you went off the topic to something else totally different from the main subject. Why did you do this ? Were you hoping that you would shake my faith ? You want to have a debate but you couldnt stick to the topic.
Logic ? How could you apply logic to Islamic teachings when your views are biased, and interjected with the indoctrination of Americanism (ie. cultral perspectives) and christian perspectives ? Where is the logic that three are one 3/1= [?] or 1/3 = [?]. And where is the logic that G-D begets a child, but G-D is the child or his son and then yet some spooky interchangable spirit ?
The best form of islamic defense is to attack, unfortunately this will not help your conscience about your religion, like Jesus said take out the beam before you take out the mote in your neighbour's eye. Why don't you take things in little steps, your koran said the jews plotted to kill Jesus why don't you ask yourself what did He do that they wanted to kill Him?
Like I said to you in the beginning of this post I will no longer conduct this conversation unless you start bringing proof of what you alledge is in judaism.