What are you trying to prove here?
Your website source for qawm (you probably were secretly hoping I wouldn't check) says: family , population , kinsmen , kin , kinsfolk , kindred , residents
Are you now saying that the word really doesn't refer to her people but to a mysterious clan of the aaronites that were not jewish? To be honest I find your excuse of an explanation absolutely ridiculous:
I encourage everybody to put the arabic قوم in
http://www.cimos.com/index.asp?src=try and translate it from the arabic to english it simply says = a people. قومها on the same site simply says her people.
And obviously your little online tool translater cannot also translate the significance of the word. We supported the word with an online Arabic Lexicon. Does the word have more than one meaning than Just "people" ? ...
When Maryam brought the child to her "قوم = qawm" or clan [
not people indicating the Jewish people in general but the clan her family was affiliated with http://alqamoos.sakhr.com/idrisidic_1.a ... =%de%e6%e3 ].............
The question here is, to WHOM was this act unheard-of among. Obviously it is not refering to
the Jews in general but to " قومها = qawmahaa " her clan and lineage of family.
What clan was this whom never commited adultry or fornication among the Jewish people and it was a thing unheard-of in their lineage ?
The Context is not refering to the whole Jewish people but a group she was part of that had never commited fornication or adultry.You should know this isnt refering to the Jewish people in general cause many of them have had a long history of fornication etc. Those who remained pure in their lineage were the Aaronites. Also I never said anthing about the Aaronites not being Jewish. The Aaronites are Jews who are clan.
Do you even know what a CLAN is ? Well its seems you went off into the long shot to criticize the usage of the word "clan" to make it seem contrary to the online Lexicon I provided that gave the deffinition of the word as family , population , kinsmen , kin , kinsfolk , kindred , residents, and also to be contrary to the word "people". Lets see if the word I chose "clan" is contrary to these Arabic Lexicon meanings, and to your online translater.
Now lets see how many meanings does the word "people" have :
people
SYLLABICATION: peo·ple
PRONUNCIATION: AUDIO: p p l KEY
NOUN: Inflected forms: pl. people
...The meanings people, family, clan etc all are sysnonomous. The context deffined the significance of "qawm" she was associated with. I chose the word "clan" cause the context gives the significance of what is meant by her "qawm"
For all who are reading this and are unaware of just how ridiculous this fellow's argument is, let me rephrase what this is all about again:
You said this:
"O sister of Aaron" ~ Yaa ukhta haaroona". You didnt even have to quote hadeeth. I automatically knew its indicated religious affiliation. This is Jewish idiom expressing her sisterhood of the Aronites. Go ask a Jew about this type of Idiom reference and if they use it among them selves...
In the Quran Maryam was addressed as " Sister of Aaron" this is Jewish idiom ...
I then asked you
Quote:
I think it is time I call your bluff on this, if it is in there would you care to show us where it is
Quote:
Would you care to cite for us where this jewish idiom is found?
Quote:
Wait a minute do you not see the commentary, the conversation in the koran was about jews talking to Mary, the jews were the one calling Mary "sister of Aaron", where is this idiom in judaism?
Still without a response I asked you this:
Quote:
Since you claim to be jewish, and you as you claim above that this is jewish idiom show us where in the whole of Judaism this idiom exists, you can't run away and say we muslims understand "sister of Aaron" as a respected title of her sisterhood of the aaronites or other such nonsense, when the alledge conversation in the koran and in that sahih muslim hadith was jews talking to Mary unless those jews are talking about understanding "sister of Aaron" as a respected title of her sisterhood of the Aaronites you are looking at a blatant lie, error and contradiction in your koran and hadiths, now show us since you claim to be jewish where this idiom is found, If you are unable to show us this idiom in judaism you are a liar like your prophet
To which you said:
Quote:
Yea Yea ! I been through this already with the Talmud , when I produced the proof willingly a back flip was done using it against us as proof Muhammad copied from the Jewish Talmud also.
I then asked you :
Quote:
Then show us the proof again, if you are scared of plagiarism the readers will judge for themselves, then again it is nothing new about the koran, you have zoroastrianism, persian, christian and jewish apocryphal books plagiarised in there, so what is one more plagiarism from the talmud, show us the idiom pls.
Several times he has stated that this is jewish idiom, several times I have asked him to show us where this jewish idiom is in judaism, he has refused and has now given us an incredible insight into linguistic and semantic acrobatics a muslim apologist will stoop to, he shows us an arabic dictionary that the word qawm really means clan, a phantom clan of the aaronites who Mary was affiliated with that never commited adultery(ofcourse there is no source for this but him and him alone), in other words he wants us to believe the verse is really saying that it refers to
family, relatives or ancestors according to his dictionary submeanings. In other words he wants us to believe the verse really means:
then she took the babe to her clan who never commited adultery, and they said ,now hast thou done a strange thing
or
then she took the babe to her family who never commited adultery...
or
then she took the babe to her ancestors who never commited adultery
or
then she took the babe to her relatives who never commited adultery...
ARE THESE STILL NOT JEWS?
Considering this fellow has numerously stated that this is jewish idiom and has so far failed despite numerous requests to show us where this idiom is in judaism, it is obvious we are dealing with a
liar.
Where is this idiom in judaism? this has been my question for the last umpteen posts.
I asked you to show us the majority of christians that were not trinitarians and supported the NIV over the KJV, you didn't do this, you instead went off on a mass web link post about the errors in the kjv. When I ask that they are subject to criticism and??? you suddenly change tactic and now as a response make the subject of discussion differences between christians and jews (when did jews enter the conversation topic???) you even precede your response with the definite adverb in your sentence:
Incorrect. You asked me three distinct questions on the translations of the Bible:
Let me see there are all subject to criticism and...? [Question 2] Let me remind you of the question I asked you that brought this up Has the message from the versions of the bible changed? [Question 3]
And I answered Question 3 .
Did you? What on earth makes you think I was talking about the tanakh and the christian bible? Tell me something what is the context of my post in reference to bible versions? Do you honestly believe I was talking about judaism and chrisitianity or the versions of the
christian bible?
116 And behold! God will say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of God'?" [Why didn't you include this bit? didn't you want to discuss why allah thinks christians worship Mary as part of the trinity?]
1) Does that verse say anything about christians or christianity or does it speaking about "men" in Arabic "al-nas" literally "Mankind" ? Seems the verse above your speaking of is refering to "men" or " mankind" who worship Maryam and Jesus as gods
, which mentions nothign about a particular religion. Who are such people that do this ? They are only two groups, the Catholics who worship Maryam
Do you realise how insulted a catholic would feel if he heard you say he worships Mary?
and the non Catholics who do not worship Maryam but Worship Jesus.[Note: Not all those who claim to be Christians worship Jesus as G-D]
2) Does the verse say anything about three or is it speaking about two people who are worshiped as gods by certain people? It doesnt make and reference to the trinity.
3) "...in derogation of God ?.." A horrible translation. Here let me give you the Arabic:
أَأَنتَ قُلتَ لِلنَّاسِ اتَّخِذُونِي وَأُمِّيَ إِلَهَيْنِ مِن دُونِ اللّهِ
Now go use your little online translator see what it gives you. "Did you (Jesus) say to mankind that to take me and my mother as gods besides Allah (G-D) ?" This is the correct translation of that phrase. Allah is excluded. There is no trinity of inference to the trinity mentioned in that verse.
The online translation says:
"You said to the people take me and my mother god" If this is not a clear reference to the trinity (as understood by Mohammed consisting of Jesus Mary and God the Father, a Marianite heresy)I don't know what is, why did Yusuf Ali include trinity in his translation if it didn't?, why are you purposefully misinterpreting your koran, where are you getting this convenient translations that contradicts the majority?? why are you being so deceptive?
see would you care to explain sura 19:33 and the usage of the future tense " the day I die" if Jesus is not coming back
Here is the arabic and transliteration:
وَالسَّلَمُ عَلَيَّ يَوْمَ وُلِدْتُ وَيَوْمَ أَمُوتُ وَيَوْمَ أُبْعَثُ حَيًّا
Waalssalamu AAalayya yawma wulidtu wayawma amootu wayawma obAAathu hayyan
The translation universally agreed even with the online translation uses the future tense of "I die":
""So peace is on me the day I was born, the day that I die , and the day that I shall be raised up to life (again)"!"
I know for sure now that you have never read the Quran you are merely doing the monkey see monkey do, following what some Christian web site has dictated to you. Go back to the Quran and you will see the same exact word for word statement used for Yahya ie John The Baptiste in the second person.
Did you read what I typed?
""So peace is on me the day I was born, the day that I die , and the day that I shall be raised up to life (again)"!"
Why is that word in bold in there?
Let us put aside this obvious fabricated commentary that Mohammed simply regurgitated that both John and Jesus said, why is that word in bold in there?, coincidentally:
وَسَلَامٌ عَلَيْهِ يَوْمَ وُلِدَ وَيَوْمَ يَمُوتُ وَيَوْمَ يُبْعَثُ حَيًّا
wassalaamun alai-hi yawma wulida wa yawma yamootu wa yawma yub'athu hayyaa
[19] So Peace on him (Yahya) the day he was born, the day that he dies, and the day that he will be raised up to life!
This is what the online translation gives for that verse to make any logical sense of it:
peace on him the day he is born, the day he dies, and the day he is being sent to come!
but this is the literal word for word translation:
A peace was born on him and a day dies and a day is being sent to come!
If you are wondering why the above is unintelligible you are not alone this is where personal interpolations () come in, I read a scholar who was to authenticate a quran fragment said one in six of the arabic could not be properly translated.
Incorrect. "Iddah" is 3 months waiting period after a divorce before a woman can remarry again. It has nothing to do with being widowed or consumation ~ where as you can be married to someone without consumation..
Iddah is a period during which a woman waits after the death of her husband or divorce
Source:
http://www.zawaj.com/articles/talaq_scales2.html
Zaid went on until he came to her and she was fermenting her flour. He (Zaid) said: As I saw her I felt in my heart an idea of her greatness so much so that I could not see towards her (simply for the fact) that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) had made a mention of her [Let us get this straight Mohammed told his son to go and mention him to his son's wife? the son goes to his wife and feels her greatness??? do you honestly believe this?]
Zaid was his adopted son not his real son or biological son.
What is this suppose to prove? it is ok to sleep with your adopted son's wife?
So I turned my back towards her. and I turned upon my heels, and said: Zainab, Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) has sent (me) with a message to you. She said: I do not do anything until I solicit the will of my Lord. So she stood at her place of worship and the (verse of) the Qur'an (pertaining to her marriage) were revealed [Do you not see something strange about Zaid's behaviour ( is this the behaviour of a 7th century arab who is about to divorce his wife? Do you realise it was then that Mohammed declared allah wants them to get married it is clear to any rational individual something was already going on between Mohammed and zainab) there is no logical reason for zaid's behaviour in this hadith, her greatness couldn't have overwhelmed him as there are other hadiths that he had sex with her before the divorce at the orders of Mohammed, the whole hadith is irrational the only logical thing I can ascertain from this hadith is that Zaid was aware his great prophet of a father was sleeping with his wife ofcourse if that was what really happened and the hadiths indicate this was a major scandal somebody tried to cover it up ) Aisha even mentioned that "your god indeed rushes in coming to your aid"] , and Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) came to her without permission. ..."
Zaid was not about to divorce his wife, He had already divorced her, the Iddah period was finished for Zainab to remarry again. She was divorced three months prior to what you are reading. And remember it was Zaid who wanted to divorce her and the Prophet pleaded him to keep her. If your so smart then find out why he wanted to divorce his wife when both Quran and hadith say he wanted to divorce her and the prophet pleaded him to keep her. So why did he want to divorce her ?
Why don't you respond to the other hadiths I showed?
If the above hadith is still ambiguous as to what is going on let us see what the leading commentaries have to say:
From the commentary of AL Tabari in his book “The Complete collection of Koranic Commentary” or “Jamia Al Bayan” in Arabic we find the following:
http://quran.al-islam.com/Tafseer/DispT ... 33&nAya=37
Quote:
When the exalted Allah said,
“Thou didst say to one who had received the grace of Allah and thy favor: ‘Retain thou (in wedlock) thy wife, and fear Allah.’ But thou didst hide in thy heart that which Allah was about to make manifest: thou didst fear the people, but it is more fitting that thou shouldst fear Allah” this was said by Allah as chastisement to His prophet. For when He said, “one who had received the grace of Allah and thy favor” this was in reference to Zaid son of Thabit who had been set free by the apostle of Allah – prayers and peace be upon him.
When the Exalted Allah said,
“Retain thou (in wedlock) thy wife, and fear Allah” this was concerning Zaynab daughter of Jahsh
whom the prophet – pbuh- had seen in her robes and was enamored by her.
Thus when Allah saw what was stirring in His prophet’s soul, he placed hatred in the heart of Zaid towards Zayned [Do you honestly believe God would do such a thing cause a man to leave his wife to satisfy his prophet's lust!!!] that he may depart from her. When Zaid mentioned his intention to separate from Zayneb to the prophet, but the prophet told him, “Retain thou thy wife” even though
the prophet desired that they separate so that he could marry her...
When Allah said,
“Thou didst hide in thy heart that which Allah was about to make manifest,” means that the
prophet hid in his heart his desire for Zaid to depart from Zaynab so that he may marry her, and Allah will reveal what you are concealing in your heart concerning this.
The Almighty said,
“Thou didst fear the people, but it is more fitting that thou shouldst fear Allah,” because Allah was telling the prophet who feared people might say, “He ordered a man to divorce his wife so that he himself may marry her after she is divorced,” and Allah aught to be feared more than people.
Narrated by Younis, narrated by Ibn Wahab, narrated by Ibn Zaid who said,
“The prophet –pbuh- had married Zaid son of Haritha to his cousin Zaynab daughter of Jahsh. One day the prophet – pbuh- went seeking Zaid in his house, whose door had a curtain made of hair. The wind blew the curtain and the prophet saw Zaynab in her room unclothed and he admired her in his heart. When Zaynab realized that the prophet desired her she began to hate Zaid
Zaid then came to the prophet – pbuh- and said, “O apostle of Allah, I wish to separate from my mate.” The prophet responded, “Why? Has anything evil come from her?” Zaid responded, “No, by Allah! I haven’t seen anything evil from her only good.”
The prophet said, “
Hold unto your wife and fear Allah.” That is what Allah said in the Koran, “Thou didst say to one who had received the grace of Allah and thy favor: "Retain thou (in wedlock) thy wife, and fear Allah." But thou didst hide in thy heart that which Allah was about to make manifest.” For the prophet was concealing the fact that he would marry Zaynab when Zaid had divorced her.
The above was taken from the commentary of Al-Tabari in his book “The Complete collection of Koranic Commentary”
The next commentary is taken from authoritative, ancient and eminent Islamic scholar AL-Kurtubi from his book, “The Collection of Koranic Legislation” in Arabic its, “AL Jamia li-Ahkam Al-Koran”
http://quran.al-islam.com/Tafseer/DispT ... 33&nAya=37
Quote:
Mukatil narrated that the prophet married Zaynab daughter of Jahsh to Zaid and she stayed with him for a while. Then one day the prophet –pbuh- came seeking Zaid but he saw Zaynab standing; she was white skinned with a beautiful figure and one of the most perfect women in Quriash.
So he desired her and said, “Wondrous is Allah who changes the heart.” When Zaynab heard the prophet’s exaltation of her, she relayed it to Zaid who then understood (what he had to do)
[Makes logical sense right? Looks like Mohammed was acting like a mafia don].
Zaid said to the prophet, “O prophet of Allah, allow me to divorce her, for she has become arrogant; seeing herself superior to me and she insults me with her tongue.”
The prophet replied, “Hold onto your wife and fear Allah.”
It was said that Allah had sent a wind which lifted the curtain to reveal Zaynab in her room. [All I can say is wow] When the prophet saw her he desired her and it delighted Zaynab to be desired by the prophet- pbuh. When Zaid returned home, she informed him of what had happened and Zaid was thus determined to divorce her.
The next section is taken from the ancient muslim biographer Ibn Saad, from his book, “The Higher Levels. Chapter titled: Zaynab daughter of Jahsh.” In Arabic its “Al Tabakat Al Kubra”
http://mirror.al-eman.com/Islamlib/view ... CID=107#s3
Quote:
Narrated by Muhammad son of Omar, narrated by Abd Allah Al Aslamy, narrated by Mohammed son of Yahya son of Habban who said, “The prophet came to the house of Zaid son of Haritha, previously known as Zaid son of Mohammed, seeking him but did not find him. Then Zaynab daughter of Jahsh, the wife of Zaid, invited the prophet –pbuh- to enter the house but he refused. Zayned said to the prophet, “Zaid is not here, but by my father and mother I ask you to enter.” The prophet refused to enter, but when Zaynab was told that the prophet was at the door, she hurried in getting dressed and came quickly and the prophet began to admire her. The prophet then left whispering something unintelligible except for the part, “Wondrous is Allah the Great. Wondrous is he who changes the heart.”
When Zaid returned home, Zaynab informed him that the prophet had come to his house. Zaid asked her, “Why didn’t you ask him to come in?”
She replied, “I invited him to come in but he refused. However, while he was leaving he said something that I didn’t understand but I was able to hear him say, ‘Wondrous is Allah the Great. Wondrous is he who changes the heart.’
Zaid then went to the prophet and said to him, “I have been told that you came to my house so, by my father and mother, why didn’t you enter? Perhaps if Zaynab is desirous to you I shall leave her.” .[This is the most illogical excuse I have ever heard for a man to want to divorce his wife, absolutely ridiculous]
The prophet then responded, “Hold onto your wife.” But Zaid was unable to do so from that day on, for he would often return to the prophet who would advice him, “Hold onto your wife.” Zaid would often say to the prophet, “O prophet I shall separate from her,” but the prophet would repeat, “Keep to your wife.” However, Zaid separated from her and she was segregated until her waiting period was over.
While the prophet was talking to Aisha, he fainted [another epileptic fit]. When he woke up he smiled and said, “Who will go to Zaynab and announce to her that Allah from heaven has wed me to her.” Then the prophet recited the verse of the Koran that says:
“Thou didst say to one who had received the grace of Allah and thy favor: "Retain thou thy wife, and fear Allah." But thou didst hide in thy heart that which Allah was about to make manifest: thou didst fear the people, but it is more fitting that thou shouldst fear Allah. Then when Zaid had dissolved his marriage with her, with the necessary formality, We joined her in marriage to thee: in order that there may be no difficulty to the Believers in the matter of marriage with the wives of their adopted sons.”
Aisha then reported, “We were constantly reminded of Zaynab’s beauty and honor and how Allah from heaven had wed he the prophet. She used to see herself superior to us because of this. Then Salmah, the servant of the prophet, went out to confront Zaynab because of all this, but Zaynab explained the matter to her”
My comments were a direct response to what you asked:
Quote:
No this is what the koran and the hadiths indicate, every single uttering was to benefit Mohammed, to soothe his melagomania of an ego the world is created for him, 5% of booty is designated for him, his incestual relationships have been sanctioned by allah, the whole koran is literred with his sexual promiscuity being sanctioned by allah, this is an insult to the true God.
Quote:
Show us where in the Quran that it INDICATED this that you are alledging ? Also the 5% booty that you are talking about, after receiving such a thing in such little amount what did he do with it thereon after? What does the hadiths that you soo much favor say. Also when Abraham, Moses, David, and Soloman went into wars didnt they obtain booty? Also how many wives did Abraham, Moses, and especially David and Soloman have ? According to you isnt this an insult to the true God also ?
Quote:
So he adds more of his wishful thinking. Why doesnt he run to hadith about these verses like he was doing in the begining. Maybe if he did this is what he would have founded.
I hope you are aware that there are other much more logical hadiths surrounding safiyah and not the ones you pick and chose:
So tell me, what does Safiyah have to do with Zaids marriage to Zainab or any of the topics formerly posted? Oh I see, now you are running off on another topic.
Are you even reading what you are pasting? This was a response to this post:
About Surah 33:53
Muslim Book 008, Hadith Number 3328.
------------------------------
Chapter : Excellence of emancipating a slave-girl and then marrying her.
Anas (Allah be pleased with him) reported: I was sitting ...Allah, the Majestic and the Glorious, defeated them (the inhabitants of Khaibar), and there fell to the lot of Dihya a beautiful girl, and Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) got her in exchange of seven heads, and then entrusted her to Umm Sulaim so that she might embellish her and prepare her (for marriage) with him. He (the narrator) said: He had been under the impression that he had said that so that she might spend her period of 'Iddah in her (Umm Sulaim's) house. (The woman) was Safiyya daughter of Huyayy
I also told you I believe the quran is also false and full of man and demonic fabrications, like I said from the beginning all we can use are the scriptures in front of us and apply logic to it
For the same reasons he didn't get rid of his excess wives and concubines when he/allah revealed that muslims should only marry 4.For the same reasons he didn't follow his own law of iddah before having sex with a widow, considering he is the one that caused her to become a widow,
Hmm. Question is, was he married to more than 4 wives at the same time ? It is agreed that he was married to more than 4 wives through out his life but was he married to more than 4 at the same time ? Where is the proof ? The hadith only indicate to us that he was married to more than 4 wives through out his life. And remember the Quran says we can have up to 4 wives this does not mean that we can only have 4 wives total through our our life time.
This is the kind of mental slavery legalism can put you in, you now start to argue in terms of numbers, should I declare it a rape if one, two, three or four witnesses witness it? Is someone forbidden for marriage after one, two or three suckings? Is it haram if I have more than 4 wives?
Jesus said one man to one woman this was what it was from the beginning, if Mohammed was serving the same God he wouldn't regress on the teachings of Jesus, it is an insult, to dismiss what Jesus said to justify a misogynist attitude, and claim you are serving the same God.
And you added more Wishful Thinking to it about Sex which has nothing to do with it.
Did you read it?
This is the hadith you showed:
About Surah 66: 1-4
Muslim Book 009, Hadith Number 3496-3497.
------------------------------
Chapter : Atonement is essential for one who made his wife unlawful for himself without the intention of divorce.
'Aisha (Allah be pleased with her) narrated that Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) used to spend time with Zainab daughter of Jahsh and drank honey at her house. She ('Aisha further) said: I and Hafsa agreed that one whom Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) would visit first should say: I notice that you have an odour of the Maghafir (gum of mimosa). He (the Holy Prophet) visited one of them and she said to him like this, whereupon he said: I have taken honey in the house of Zainab bint Jabsh and I will never do it again. It was at this (that the following verse was revealed): Why do you hold to be forbidden what Allah has made lawful for you... (up to). If you both ('Aisha and Hafsa) turn to Allah" up to: "And when the Holy Prophet confided an information to one of his wives" (lxvi. 3). This refers to his saying: But I have taken honey.
...
This is the hadith on the link I gave you
Bukhari vol 3 43 648:... The Prophet did not go to his wives because of the secret which Hafsa had disclosed to 'Aisha, and he said that he would not go to his wives for one month as he was angry with them when Allah admonished him (for his oath that he would not approach Maria)
What do you think is happening here? which is the more logical hadith? Is this to do with a literal honey? or a cheating husband. What is the context of approach in this hadith? Remember the verses "approach your wives when and how ye will" .."do not approach them till they are clean".
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You are absolutely right. Embryology has nothing to do with people being made from out of clay. I couldnt agree with you anymore. But however, embryology and man being made from clay does have something to do with the EVOLUTION OF MANKIND, unless you beleive you came from a monkey . {Smile}
Clay has to do with the evolution of mankind? why is a muslim believing in evolution?, please elaborate on exactly what you mean here with clay, the evolution of mankind and embryology. Did you read what I said about the sequential meaning of thumma? how on earth can you not see that the verses you have described as pertaining to embryology can equally be seen as the creation of man according to allah, that is of adam and eve period.
No, the person who has a probleming seeing is you, not us. You have poor reading and understanding of your own langauge.
Muslims always believed in the evolution of mankind contrary to the evolution of mankind from Apes.
You obviously didnt pay attention to verse especially at the ending of the verse that distinguishes the two human creation from clay and that of the embrological stages.
Thumma (Then) you said about "(Thumma [Then]): A letter of Atf [an Arabic grammatical classification] indicating sequence [in order] with a pause in time [between the two things in the sequence]" This is agreed. WoOHOo! your learnig some arabic. " with a pause in time " does not tell us how long later before the next sequence starts again.
"then He (Allah) brings it out as another creation; " Another ? Hmm. Then the enbryological stages that are mentioned is distinguished from the first Creation of Man ie the two human beings that were created from clay. So the ebyological stages mention is not part of the First creation of man but another production of a human being. {Smile}
...
If you can see such detailed description in a few ambiguous lines that are inaccurate, I think you are seriously giving more credit than is due, it is symptomatic of a religion bereft of any prophecies or miracles for the followers to hang onto any crumbs to claim a miracle when it is clearly not there; just blinded zeal; that since Mohammed may have been illiterate then it must have been God that 'inspired' him, what about the alternative, that it was the devil that did.
You are soo stuck on sex you might want to consider what David did who was the proclaimed Anointed one (Messiah) of G-D and His Prophet whom assasinated one of his people so he could mary his wife ?
I am curious why you bring this up, David was punished God let him know he had sinned, allah on the other hand gives Mohammed the thumbs up, something is clearly wrong.
And Also the number of wives our Prophet married in his life time is far more remote from that of number of wives the Jewish Prophets had at ONE TIME. While they still remained as prophets of G-D.
Which prophets are you talking about?
Let me remind you the topic started out with speaking about the moon god propaganda. We were suppose to be speaking about that, but however because of your enmity towards islam and our beloved prophet, you went off the topic to something else totally different from the main subject. Why did you do this ? Were you hoping that you would shake my faith ? You want to have a debate but you couldnt stick to the topic.
After several posts why is it now that you bring this up?. What happened to the fellow that was going to play chess with us in hebrew, arabic, aramaic and koine greek, you don't want to debate anymore? don't you recall I said I was hoping to show you islam is derived from paganism? You are worshipping the thoughts and actions of a very sick man, this is idolatry.
The reason why I quoted other non muslim commentors as to the issue of Zaid and Zainab is to show their views and study of the subject is contrary to yours, whom have acquinted them selves with the study of the Quran and the Hadiths which you have not, and that your views, that contradict theirs, are not facts but are of a prejudice opinion.
Which hadiths are they using? If they are not using any hadiths why should I (or you for that matter) believe a word they say remember what we agreed?