What are you trying to prove here?
Your website source for qawm (you probably were secretly hoping I wouldn't check) says: family , population , kinsmen , kin , kinsfolk , kindred , residents
Are you now saying that the word really doesn't refer to her people but to a mysterious clan of the aaronites that were not jewish? To be honest I find your excuse of an explanation absolutely ridiculous:
I encourage everybody to put the arabic ููู
in
http://www.cimos.com/index.asp?src=try and translate it from the arabic to english it simply says = a people. ููู
ูุง on the same site simply says her people.
And obviously your little online tool translater cannot also translate the significance of the word. We supported the word with an online Arabic Lexicon. Does the word have more than one meaning than Just "people" ? Yes it does
http://alqamoos.sakhr.com/idrisidic_1.a ... =%de%e6%e3 as I posted before. Also you didnt pay attention to the context which defines the SIGNIFICANT meaning of the word.
When Maryam brought the child to her "ููู
= qawm" or clan [
not people indicating the Jewish people in general but the clan her family was affiliated with http://alqamoos.sakhr.com/idrisidic_1.a ... =%de%e6%e3 ].............
The question here is, to WHOM was this act unheard-of among. Obviously it is not refering to
the Jews in general but to " ููู
ูุง = qawmahaa " her clan and lineage of family.
What clan was this whom never commited adultry or fornication among the Jewish people and it was a thing unheard-of in their lineage ?
The Context is not refering to the whole Jewish people but a group she was part of that had
never commited fornication or adultry.You should know this isnt refering to the Jewish people in general cause many of them have had a long history of fornication etc. Those who remained pure in their lineage were the Aaronites. Also I never said anthing about the Aaronites not being Jewish. The Aaronites are Jews who are clan.
Do you even know what a CLAN is ? Well its seems you went off into the long shot to criticize the usage of the word "clan" to make it seem contrary to the online Lexicon I provided that gave the deffinition of the word as
family , population , kinsmen , kin , kinsfolk , kindred , residents, and also to be contrary to the word "
people". Lets see if the word I chose "clan" is contrary to these Arabic Lexicon meanings, and to your online translater.
clan
PRONUNCIATION: AUDIO: kl n KEY
NOUN: 1. A traditional social unit in the Scottish Highlands, consisting of a number of families claiming a common ancestor and following the same hereditary chieftain.
2.
A division of a tribe tracing descent from a common ancestor.
3.
A large group of relatives, friends, or associates.
ETYMOLOGY: Middle English, from Scottish Gaelic clann, family, from Old Irish cland, offspring, from Latin planta, plant, sprout. See plat- in Appendix I.
http://education.yahoo.com/reference/di ... 84100.html
Now lets see how many meanings does the word "people" have :
people
SYLLABICATION: peoยทple
PRONUNCIATION: AUDIO: p p l KEY
NOUN: Inflected forms: pl. people
1. Humans considered as a group or in indefinite numbers: People were dancing in the street. I met all sorts of people.
2. A body of persons living in the same country under one national government; a nationality.
3. Inflected forms: pl. peoยทples
A body of persons sharing a common religion, culture, language, or inherited condition of life.
4. Persons with regard to their residence, class, profession, or group: city people.
5. The mass of ordinary persons; the populace. Used with the: โthose who fear and distrust the people, and wish to draw all powers from them into the hands of the higher classesโ (Thomas Jefferson).
6. The citizens of a political unit, such as a nation or state; the electorate. Used with the.
7. Persons subordinate to or loyal to a ruler, superior, or employer: The queen showed great compassion for her people.
8.
Family, relatives, or ancestors.
9. Informal Animals or other beings distinct from humans: Rabbits and squirrels are the furry little people of the woods.
http://education.yahoo.com/reference/di ... 76400.html
The meanings people, family, clan etc all are sysnonomous. The context deffined the significance of "qawm" she was associated with. I chose the word "clan" cause the context gives the significance of what is meant by her "qawm"
I asked you to show us the majority of christians that were not trinitarians and supported the NIV over the KJV, you didn't do this, you instead went off on a mass web link post about the errors in the kjv. When I ask that they are subject to criticism and??? you suddenly change tactic and now as a response make the subject of discussion differences between christians and jews (when did jews enter the conversation topic???) you even precede your response with the definite adverb in your sentence:
Incorrect. You asked me three distinct questions on the translations of the Bible:
Would you care to cite for us the names of these majority of christians that are not trinitarians and prefer the NIV over the KJV [Question 1]
Quote:
The NIV is more informative as to the texts and manuscripts. Please read the preface to the NIV they them selves criticize the KJV of its grave Errors in translation but also the NIV has also been convicted of the same thing
http://www.geocities.com/kjvdispensational/ http://www.biblestudy.org/basicart/kjverror.html http://www.considerthis.net/Textfile/kjv-errors.htm http://www.bibletexts.com/topics/kjv.htm http://www.asapnet.net/remnant/page5isKJVonly.htm http://www.theology.edu/journal/volume1/tr.htm http://www.bible.ca/b-kjv-only.htm
Hope you enjoy reading all those sites between Christians and their disputes about the translators of the different versions of the Bible which is G-D's word and not. As again I am like them to the fact we undertand the original language the scripture was revealed in and realize the hard task involved in translations which are subject to error. The Christian Bible has the same problems of translation errors like that of Quran English translations. That why we say if you wanna Criticize islam or find flaw in it you will have to learn Arabic to do so. And from there is the real debate. A person in your shoes have no Idea if what you are criticizing if it is and translators error or not.
Let me see there are all subject to criticism and...? [Question 2] Let me remind you of the question I asked you that brought this up Has the message from the versions of the bible changed? [Question 3]
And I answered Question 3 .
116 And behold! God will say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of God'?" [Why didn't you include this bit? didn't you want to discuss why allah thinks christians worship Mary as part of the trinity?]
1) Does that verse say anything about christians or christianity or does it speaking about "men" in Arabic "al-nas" literally "Mankind" ? Seems the verse above your speaking of is refering to "men" or " mankind" who worship Maryam and Jesus as gods, which mentions nothign about a particular religion. Who are such people that do this ? They are only two groups, the Catholics who worship Maryam and the non Catholics who do not worship Maryam but Worship Jesus.[Note: Not all those who claim to be Christians worship Jesus as G-D]
2) Does the verse say anything about three or is it speaking about two people who are worshiped as gods by certain people? It doesnt make and reference to the trinity.
3) "...
in derogation of God ?.." A horrible translation. Here let me give you the Arabic:
ุฃูุฃููุชู ูููุชู ููููููุงุณู ุงุชููุฎูุฐููููู ููุฃูู
ูููู ุฅููููููููู ู
ูู ุฏูููู ุงููููู
Now go use your little online translator see what it gives you. "Did you (Jesus) say to mankind that to take me and my mother as gods besides Allah (G-D) ?" This is the correct translation of that phrase.
Allah is excluded. There is no trinity of inference to the trinity mentioned in that verse.
see would you care to explain sura 19:33 and the usage of the future tense " the day I die" if Jesus is not coming back
Here is the arabic and transliteration:
ููุงูุณููููู
ู ุนูููููู ููููู
ู ููููุฏูุชู ููููููู
ู ุฃูู
ููุชู ููููููู
ู ุฃูุจูุนูุซู ุญููููุง
Waalssalamu AAalayya yawma wulidtu wayawma amootu wayawma obAAathu hayyan
The translation universally agreed even with the online translation uses the future tense of "I die":
""So peace is on me the day I was born, the day that I die , and the day that I shall be raised up to life (again)"!"
I know for sure now that you have never read the Quran you are merely doing the monkey see monkey do, following what some Christian web site has dictated to you. Go back to the Quran and you will see the same exact word for word statement used for Yahya ie John The Baptiste in the second person.
ููุณูููุงู
ู ุนููููููู ููููู
ู ููููุฏู ููููููู
ู ููู
ููุชู ููููููู
ู ููุจูุนูุซู ุญููููุง
wassalaamun alai-hi yawma wulida wa yawma yamootu wa yawma yub'athu hayyaa
[19] So Peace on him (Yahya) the day he was born, the day that he dies, and the day that he will be raised up to life!
Compared to :
ููุงูุณููููุงู
ู ุนูููููู ููููู
ู ููููุฏุชูู ููููููู
ู ุฃูู
ููุชู ููููููู
ู ุฃูุจูุนูุซู ุญููููุง
wassalaamu alai-ya yawma wulid tu wa yawma amootu wa yawma ub'athu hayyaa
[19] "So Peace is on me (Jesus) the day I was born, the day that I die, and the day that I shall be raised up to life
What was the day that Yahya died, and what was the day that Jesus died ? The day that Jesus died is mentioned in 3:55 when Allah had raised him up to himself which is confirmed in 5:117.
Anas (Allah be pleased with him) reported: When the 'Iddah of Zainab was over [Iddah is waiting period before you consumate your marriage with a widow, how convenient],
Incorrect. "Iddah" is 3 months waiting period
after a divorce before a woman can remarry again. It has nothing to do with being widowed or consumation ~ where as you can be married to someone without consumation..
Zaid went on until he came to her and she was fermenting her flour. He (Zaid) said: As I saw her I felt in my heart an idea of her greatness so much so that I could not see towards her (simply for the fact) that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) had made a mention of her [Let us get this straight Mohammed told his son to go and mention him to his son's wife? the son goes to his wife and feels her greatness??? do you honestly believe this?]
Zaid was his adopted son not his real son or biological son.
So I turned my back towards her. and I turned upon my heels, and said: Zainab, Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) has sent (me) with a message to you. She said: I do not do anything until I solicit the will of my Lord. So she stood at her place of worship and the (verse of) the Qur'an (pertaining to her marriage) were revealed [Do you not see something strange about Zaid's behaviour ( is this the behaviour of a 7th century arab who is about to divorce his wife? Do you realise it was then that Mohammed declared allah wants them to get married it is clear to any rational individual something was already going on between Mohammed and zainab) there is no logical reason for zaid's behaviour in this hadith, her greatness couldn't have overwhelmed him as there are other hadiths that he had sex with her before the divorce at the orders of Mohammed, the whole hadith is irrational the only logical thing I can ascertain from this hadith is that Zaid was aware his great prophet of a father was sleeping with his wife ofcourse if that was what really happened and the hadiths indicate this was a major scandal somebody tried to cover it up ) Aisha even mentioned that "your god indeed rushes in coming to your aid"] , and Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) came to her without permission. ..."
Zaid was not about to divorce his wife, He had already divorced her, the Iddah period was finished for Zainab to remarry again. She was divorced three months prior to what you are reading. And remember it was Zaid who wanted to divorce her and the Prophet pleaded him to keep her. If your so smart then find out why he wanted to divorce his wife when both Quran and hadith say he wanted to divorce her and the prophet pleaded him to keep her. So why did he want to divorce her ?
My comments were a direct response to what you asked:
Quote:
No this is what the koran and the hadiths indicate, every single uttering was to benefit Mohammed, to soothe his melagomania of an ego the world is created for him, 5% of booty is designated for him, his incestual relationships have been sanctioned by allah, the whole koran is literred with his sexual promiscuity being sanctioned by allah, this is an insult to the true God.
Quote:
Show us where in the Quran that it INDICATED this that you are alledging ? Also the 5% booty that you are talking about, after receiving such a thing in such little amount what did he do with it thereon after? What does the hadiths that you soo much favor say. Also when Abraham, Moses, David, and Soloman went into wars didnt they obtain booty? Also how many wives did Abraham, Moses, and especially David and Soloman have ? According to you isnt this an insult to the true God also ?
Quote:
So he adds more of his wishful thinking. Why doesnt he run to hadith about these verses like he was doing in the begining. Maybe if he did this is what he would have founded.
That is not what the Quran indicates. You never read the Quran for your self other than having it dictated to you by a christian website that takes it out of context. Your are merely following the speculation and conjextures of others.
I hope you are aware that there are other much more logical hadiths surrounding safiyah and not the ones you pick and chose:
So tell me, what does Safiyah have to do with Zaids marriage to Zainab or any of the topics formerly posted? Oh I see, now you are running off on another topic.
I also told you I believe the quran is also false and full of man and demonic fabrications, like I said from the beginning all we can use are the scriptures in front of us and apply logic to it
Then your use of it is invalid. your approach to the Quran and hadith is not based on the prestige of muslims by the madzhab of muslims beliefs but by your own wanton way of distruction.
For the same reasons he didn't get rid of his excess wives and concubines when he/allah revealed that muslims should only marry 4.For the same reasons he didn't follow his own law of iddah before having sex with a widow, considering he is the one that caused her to become a widow,
Hmm. Question is, was he married to more than 4 wives at the same time ? It is agreed that he was married to more than 4 wives through out his life but was he married to more than 4 at the same time ? Where is the proof ? The hadith only indicate to us that he was married to more than 4 wives through out his life. And remember the Quran says we can have up to 4 wives this does not mean that we can only have 4 wives total through our our life time.
Now remember this verse in the Quran.
O Prophet! When ye do divorce women, divorce them at their prescribed periods, and count (accurately) their prescribed periods: and fear Allah your Lord: and turn them not out of their houses, nor shall they (themselves) leave, except in case they are guilty of some open lewdness, those are limits set by Allah: and any who transgresses the limits of Allah, does verily wrong his (own) soul: thou knowest not if perchance Allah will bring about thereafter some new situation.
The verse of the Quran indicated that he didnt keep all of his wives he divorced some of them during his life. When the prophet was taken from this life how many of his wives were there with him ? Four.
And you added more Wishful Thinking to it about Sex which has nothing to do with it.
Quote:
You are absolutely right. Embryology has nothing to do with people being made from out of clay. I couldnt agree with you anymore. But however, embryology and man being made from clay does have something to do with the EVOLUTION OF MANKIND, unless you beleive you came from a monkey . {Smile}
Clay has to do with the evolution of mankind? why is a muslim believing in evolution?, please elaborate on exactly what you mean here with clay, the evolution of mankind and embryology. Did you read what I said about the sequential meaning of thumma? how on earth can you not see that the verses you have described as pertaining to embryology can equally be seen as the creation of man according to allah, that is of adam and eve period.
No, the person who has a probleming seeing is you, not us. You have poor reading and understanding of your own langauge.
Muslims always believed in the evolution of mankind contrary to the evolution of mankind from Apes.
You obviously didnt pay attention to verse especially at the ending of the verse that distinguishes the two human creation from clay and that of the embrological stages.
Thumma (Then) you said about "(Thumma [Then]): A letter of Atf [an Arabic grammatical classification] indicating sequence [in order] with a pause in time [between the two things in the sequence]" This is agreed. WoOHOo! your learnig some arabic. " with a pause in time " does not tell us how long later before the next sequence starts again.
"then He (Allah) brings it out as another creation; " Another ? Hmm. Then the enbryological stages that are mentioned is distinguished from the first Creation of Man ie the two human beings that were created from clay. So the ebyological stages mention is not part of the First creation of man but another production of a human being. {Smile}
Again you should pay more attention to what you read. The Arabic I can understand. And just to let all the people out there know who can read...lol....that the online translater tool that our Wishful Thinker aided us with is limited cause it cannot translate the gender, singularity, duality, and plurality of words.
Back to Safiyah. Obviously as you have been doing through out all your postings, its all copy cat wishful thinking, in taking what you want as whatever speaks bad about Muhammad as the truth and whatever speaks good about him you reject as a lie or fabrication, this is your form of authentication, while at the same time lacing hadiths which have nothing to do with each other in their events as you did with the Quranic chapters. You should follow up on your anti islamic propaganda by going back to validate the sources it self, but again you are void of doing this.
You are soo stuck on sex you might want to consider what David did who was the proclaimed Anointed one (Messiah) of G-D and His Prophet whom assasinated one of his people so he could mary his wife ? And Also the number of wives our Prophet married in his life time is far more remote from that of number of wives the Jewish Prophets had at ONE TIME. While they still remained as prophets of G-D.
Let me remind you the topic started out with speaking about the moon god propaganda. We were suppose to be speaking about that, but however because of your enmity towards islam and our beloved prophet, you went off the topic to something else totally different from the main subject. Why did you do this ? Were you hoping that you would shake my faith ? You want to have a debate but you couldnt stick to the topic.
The reason why I quoted other non muslim commentors as to the issue of Zaid and Zainab is to show their views and study of the subject is contrary to yours, whom have acquinted them selves with the study of the Quran and the Hadiths which you have not, and that your views, that contradict theirs, are not facts but are of a prejudice opinion.