Us? exactly how many people am I talking to?
Yusuf Ali was educated in the uk, he was sufficiently grounded in the language to know what he was doing, I agree his work was inaccurate but not in the way you imply, he and other english translators knew exactly the people they were translating to, they bent over backwards to make the koran mild, so maakiren instead of cheater vis-a-vis allah is the best of cheaters, allah is now the best of plotters, instead of beat your wives, it is beat(lightly) and many more like it without their interpolations () the koran does not make any sense to the conscience or to a rational mind.
For a person that does not know how to read arabic how can you stipulate the degree of which I implied inaccuracy of his translation or any other translators work ?
YOu mean the Quran doesnt make sense to the indoctrinated Christian mind. What you and your contemporaries dont relate to others who are not muslim do.
Quote:
To show flaw in the translators works that you and your contemporaries took advantage of I produced legitimate grounds of why their translations are rejected as an authoritive and credible Tafsir (explanation):
Read above
Rejected by whom?
Exactly what splinter group do you represent?
Quote:
You were to disprove and show inaccuracy in our Tafsir. This is where the challenge was at. However, your critic sources that you posted was not based on our Tafsir, but based on another translators work that was inaccurate and poor.
Have a look at the original post, I used your tafsir, I found it amusing how you came to such a detailed description of embryology given ..thing that sojourns, clinging thing, flesh on bones.
By those who agree with our Madzhab that speak arabic
You used my Tafsir then used a critic source that expounded on a different Tafsir translation that dated back before my post. I told you to go and present it to an Embryologiest not refer to criticism that already exist on an invalid translation.
Interesting, Lets see, here is the arabic :
23:13 thumma (and then) Ja'al (Placed) naa (We) hu (him/it) nutfatan (a trickler) fee (into) qararin (a sojourner/settler) makeenin (an implanter)
23:14 thumma (and then) khalaq (made) naa (We) annutfata (the trickler) alaqatan (a clinger) fa (then) khalaq (made) naa (We) al-alaqata (the clinger) mudhghatan (a chewing) fa (then) khalaq (made) naa (We) al-mudhghata (the chewing) 'izhaaman ( bones) fa (then) kasaw (clothed) naa (We) al-'izhaama (the bones) lahman (muscle) thumma (and then) anshaa' (produced) naa (We) hu (it) khalqan (creation) aakhar (another)....
Translation
...and then We placed him (man) as a trickler into a thing that sojourns (settles) and implants, and then We made the trickler as something that clings and then We made the thing that clings as a chewing and then We made the chewing as bones and then We clothed the bones with muscle, and then we produced it as another creation...
Arabic
Nutfah means
Trickler derived from its Arabic root
natafa ~ to trickle, or dribble
Nutfah is described as an Amshaaj ~ a germ
76:2 inna (verily) khalaq (made) naa (We) al-insaana ( Man[male&female]) min (from) nutfatin (a trickler) amshaajin (a germ)...
Translation
Verily We made man [male&female] from a Trickling Germ...
The
Nutfatin Amshaajin ~ a Trickling Germ is from Semen
75:37 alam (not ?) yaku (was he) nutfatan (a trickler) min (from) maniyyin (semen) yumnaa (emitted)
Translation
Was he[man] not a trickler from semen emitted ?
The
Nutfah Amshaajin ~ a trickling germ, is from semen. It is placed into something that
sojourns or settles and implants in Arabic called
Qararin Makeen.
Nutfah = Trickler that is a Germ from Semen.
* Does not the Sperm trickle ?
* Is not the Sperm a germ?
* Is not Sperm from Semen ?
Qararin Makeen = something that sojourns(settles) and implants
* Does not the Ovum sojourn in the Falopian Tube ?
* Does not the Ovum implant it self to the uterus ?
....and then We made
the trickler as something
that clings and then We made
the thing that clings as
a chewing and then We made
the chewing as bones and then We clothed the bones
with muscle, and then we produced it as another creation...
The above is tha stage by stage embryo developement after the fertilization and Ovum implantation.
The Trickling germ after being placed into the thing that sojourns and implants in the Quran is made into "alaqatan" ~ a clinger or something that clings.
After the ovum is fertilized by a single sperm it then moves to the Uterus where it implants it self to the walls of the Uterus where it literally starts to
cling
...and then We made
the thing that clings as
a chewing and then We made
the chewing as bones and then We clothed the bones
with muscle, and then we produced it as another creation...
The above is the next stages of development mentioned in the Quran after the clinging stage:
* then it is made as a chewing or something that looks chewed (mudhghatan)
* then the bones ('izhaaman) are made
* then the bones are clothes with muscle (lahman)
Above are the stage by stage developments in the Quran that can be compared with the microscopic images of the stages of embryo development in its early stages
before it can be seen with the naked eye
http://anatomy.med.unsw.edu.au/cbl/embr ... Stages.htm
There you have it. We gave a transliteration of everyword and its literal meaning.
I asked you to refute this by taking it to an embryologiest asking him/her if this is accurate.
If allah cannot pass on his message except via a language 90% of his converts do not speak or do not comprehend, and translations lose their meanings then the last message for all mankind for all eternity is a failure.
Wow ! I wonder why you have 76 revised editions of the Bible in English. Hmm, lets see, in order to properly undersand the bible you have to find aid in another language inorder to define its meaning.
For the student of the Bible the Arabic language is of interest, first, as one of the members of the Semitic group of languages, to which belong the Hebrew and Aramaic tongues of the Bible; secondly, as one of the languages into which the Bible and other church literature were early translated and in which a Christian literature was produced; and thirdly, as the vernacular of Mohammed and his followers, the classical tongue of that religious system which is the offspring of a degenerate Judaism and Christianity......
For the interpretation of the Old Testament the Arabic language has been of service in a variety of ways. In the department of lexicography it has thrown light not only on many a word used but once in the Bible or too seldom for usage alone to determine its meaning, but also on words which had seemed clear enough in their Biblical setting, but which have received illustration or correction from their usage in the immense bulk and range of Arabic literature with its enormous vocabulary. For the modern scientific study of Hebrew grammar, with its genetic method, Arabic has been of the greatest value, through the comparison of its cognate forms, where, in the main, the Arabic has the simpler, fuller and more regular morphology, and through the comparison of similar constructions, for which the highly developed Arabic syntax furnishes useful rubrics.
http://www.jesus-christ-forums.com/home/viewtopic ... c&start=60
Several questions pop up why did the jews want to kill Jesus, what was His crime? why did allah want to raise Jesus up dead? what for? what purpose surely God would do things for a purpose?
This has nothing to do with the subject
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and in their (the Jews) disbelief they spoke against Maryam grave false charges, and they said: " Verily we have killed The Messiah Jesus Son of Maryam the Messenger of Allah !" And they (the enemies of Jesus) killed him not nor crucified him but however it appeared to them so. [Why would allah make it appear so, what possible reason?] And verily those who differed there in (that he was not crucified nor killed) were indeed in doubt about it. They had no knowledge about it except that they followed conjecture, and for surety they killed him not, rather Allah raised him up to himself (ref. 3:54-55) and Allah is almighty all wise (Quran 4:157-157)
[Is this a valid reason for all of the above?]
Hmm bad reading. It didnt say Allah made it to appear to them so, it says it appeared to them so. Where do you see that Allah had something to do with it of it appearing to them so ?
I am curious do you believe the "seal of the prophets" to be a cancerous lump between the shoulder blades?
Nope the Quran doesnt confirm such a thing.
Quote:
BukhariVolumn 004, Book 055, Hadith Number 657.
-----------------------------------------
Narated By Abu Huraira : Allah's Apostle said, "By Him in Whose Hands my soul is, surely (Jesus,) the son of Mary will soon descend amongst you and will judge mankind justly (as a Just Ruler)[ What part in the above statement is figurative?]; he will break the Cross and kill the pigs and there will be no Jizya ...
Well he is not coming back according to Quran so what does it matter?
Quote:
" The Pigs" and in some hadith it is singular as "The Pig". What pigs is he going to kill ? There are millions of pigs all over the word. In other Hadiths Jesus is to comback to kill an imposter Messiah called "Al-Masiha Dajjal" and those who follow him.
I see, you are basically saying the followers of the false messiah will be killed, do you realise the followers of the false messiah will be the jews? so you are implying that jews are the pigs being referred to here? as a former jew as you claim I find it truly amazing you would utter such a thing.
Easy, Just like a former Christian who became muslim as Jews become muslims. That statement doesnt bother me in least. Tell me what you think about these other Jews that became muslim.
http://www.jews-for-allah.org/Jewish-Converts-to-Islam/ http://www.convertstoislam.org/cboard/show.php?fid=7 http://www.msnusers.com/JewishRevertsToIslam
Do you honestly believe God would utter such a thing, this sounds like what a man would say when he has forgotten the things he was suppose to remember.
Remember ! God's thoughts are not you thoughts
Isn't this religion so simple a child can understand it, if the religion can only be understood by elaborate tafsirs which have no prophetic mandate, why should anybody believe them?
Except when you start to get into criticizm and science translations are not meant for such a task.
Is this your excuse for an explanation?, the term was "sister of Aaron" yes we can both agree that they named themselves after their ancestors, the question was where in the whole of judaism do they name themselves as a sibling of an ancestor that was not their real life contemporary sibling?
Nope. The point is Muslims do not understand Sister of Aaron as you precieve it. We understand the statement Sister of Aaron as a respectable title of her sisterhood of the Aaronites, which expresses she was an Aaronite.
I see, according to you Mary was put into the care of Zechariah which makes him her uncle as a guardian and her as his daughter, and since he is a descendant of Aaron this makes her a "sister of aaron" impressive deduction but...your koran states Mary is a literal "sister of harun", when Mohammed was confronted about this lie in the koran he said another lie that..The (people of the old age) used to give names (to their persons) after the names of Apostles and pious persons who had gone before them. The onus is on you to prove that the jews had this idiom, if it is in there spit it out.
,
Nope. Go back and read what I said. I stated her uncle or aunt was one of Elizabeth's parents, thus reject your statement. You not paying attention.
Where did you get this information from that Mary was a descendant of Aaron?, if Mary was a descendant of Aaron, even your koran would have known better to call her a "DAUGHTER OF AARON"
Nope. Imran was an Aaronite, Maryam was the only child of Imran contrary to the Amram in the old testament.
Have you thought maybe the hadiths also contain fabrications of historical time line of events, a fabrication containing more fabrications...it would explain why they contradict each other.
When I come accross such hadith I delete them or mark them with a big X or they go straight to the garbage.
Your blind faith is the koran is inerrant, and everything must be discarded if it contradicts the koran or if it sheds light on it that shows it is no more divine than the utterings of a demon possessed man
Exactly, Quran comes first as it says. It is th Truth verifier for WHATEVER is before it.
So tell me, why would Muhammad need to copy from the Bible to get his info if he was possessed by the devil as you say? If he was possessed by the devil then he woudlnt need to copy from the Bible when he can get it all info from the evil dude himself. :roll:
Since those hadiths are all we have on the formation of islam, we can only apply logic on those hadiths, far from contradicting the koran like you would have us all believe they shed light on it. I also believe the koran is a forgery on human and demonic proportions.
A Christian perspective of course would think like that. The Quran was written first before hadith so it has preference over the hadith. Plus. The Quran is regarded as divine and the hadith are not. So how could you take that which is believed to be NOT divine to supersede that which is believed to be divine?
Would you care to point us to where it says alnissa means adult women who have passed puberty?
Sure turn to chapter 3 the name of the chapter is
annisaa (al nisaa) meaing Women. What is a woman ?
woman
SYLLABICATION: wom·an
PRONUNCIATION: AUDIO: wmn KEY
NOUN: Inflected forms: pl. wom·en (AUDIO: wmn)
1. An adult female human.
2. Women considered as a group; womankind: “Woman feels the invidious distinctions of sex exactly as the black man does those of color” (Elizabeth Cady Stanton).
3. An adult female human belonging to a specified occupation, group, nationality, or other category.
http://education.yahoo.com/reference/di ... 03400.html
A woman is an adult female. Females did not become adults until after puberty.
The hadiths say the quranic verse on stoning was abrogated by a goat, read into it what you will.
Hmm, maybe its a hadith reported by a goat that said that. Who cares.