Allah cannot be seen
One of the innovations of Mohammed instead of being one of the 360 idols allah is now invisible and only talks to Mohammed via an epileptic fit, I am curious I have to take your word for it that you are jewish, but how does a jew reconcile abrogation with a "a God whose words changeth not"
Quote:
No vision can grasp Him(Allah).
Except Mohammed ofcourse
But His grasp is over all vision: He is above all comprehension, yet is acquainted with all things. (Koran 6:103)
Sounds like a poem the jinn possessed Hassan Bin Thabbit would sing.
He(Allah) is the First and the Last,
I don't need to tell you where this was plagiarised from
Allah not a sun or moon god
But allah has 3 daughters. Maybe that was abrogated too.
Quote:
Among His(Allah's) Signs are the Night and the Day, and the Sun and the Moon. No not prostrate (in worship) to the Sun nor the Moon, but prostrate (in worship) to Allah who created them both, if it is Him ye wish to serve. (Koran 41:37)
Maybe you need to read the sunnah to see the history of these verses, I assure you there is nothing divine about it. Mohammed or whoever edited the koran wanted to give the air of respectability and monotheism to combat judaism and christianity, something for the arabs in their language as they were 'unlettered'
Hubal the moon-god and Allah were not the same God
You have not proved this, you have extrapolated hadiths and made your own conclusion instead of asking some simple logical questions.
Your interpretation of Tabari's hadith contradicts Quran
Really? I had the impression they explained those verses they are the only biographical data we have on islam, written by and I can't emphasis this any more they were written
BY MUSLIMS not western orientalist missionaries the hadiths of tabari and Ishaq condemn islam for the superstitious misogynist dribble it is.
and the hadith above which is SAHIH (Authentic) that declares Allah is Greater than Hubal.
Are you sure it says so, or do you take the generic term for pagans to mean hubal? What makes you think that after Mohammed had elevated allah over the daughters of allah and the other 360 idols that muslims didn't go about destroying all references to hubal and allah? the early muslims were very good at not leaving any evidence behind, don't you agree?
To remind you Tabari's collection of Hadith are not ruled as Sahih. Also in the religon of ISLAM Hadiths are not inspired nor are they the WORDS OF ALLAH, they do not supersede the Quran in Islam.
But they explain a great deal about islam, they explain the verses and the give body to the whole religion without those hadiths you have 114 epileptic utterances you call suras with no chronological basis.
Islam does not deny the history that the pagans gave reverence to Allah. This does not denote that Allah was an Idol as you interpretated it to be that contradicts my posting that supersede yours by authority
.
supercedes mine by authority? pls elaborate on how it does, if the pagans venerated allah then how did they do it? surely you understand how pagans need something physical in relation to their god the need to kiss it, to circumnavigate it...
If you dont know the levels of authority of hadeeth I think you need to go do a lot more studying.
Pls you are preaching to the choir, to me they are so many lies in the hadiths lies to make Mohammed look good, read the sahih and Abu Dawod, and Malik hadiths only gullible individuals would believe Mohammed initiated the Lord's prayer,
Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, "ALLAH SAID, ‘I have prepared for My righteous slaves (such excellent things) as no eye has ever seen, nor an ear has ever heard nor a human heart can ever think of.’" (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 9, Book 93, Number 589)
However, as it is written: "No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him." (1 Corinthians 2:9)
Narrated AbuUmamah Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) said, "Blessed is he who has seen me, but seven times blessed is he who has not seen me but has believed in me."Ahmad transmitted it. (Number 1688; taken from the ALIM CD-ROM Version)
"Then Jesus told him, ‘Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.’" John 20:29
Narrated AbudDarda': I heard the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) say: If any of you is suffering from anything or his brother is suffering, he should say: Our Lord is Allah Who is in the heaven, holy is Thy name, Thy command reigns supreme in the heaven and the earth, as Thy mercy in the heaven, make Thy mercy in the earth; forgive us our sins, and our errors;
Thou art the Lord of good men; send down mercy from Thy mercy, and remedy, and remedy from Thy remedy on this pain so that it is healed up. (Sunan Abu Dawud, Book 28, Number 3883)
"After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen." Matthew 6:9-13
Tabari hadiths are hasan (good) there are not Sahih (sound/authentic), hasan hadiths DO NOT supersede Sahih hadiths in authority. Anyhow, regardless, your quote of Tabari hadith doesnt say anything of Allah being an Idol. As again, the Abrahamic religion was idolterated by the descendants of Ishmael in which the rights of sacrifice to Allah was originally part of the Abrahamic religion that was still practiced by the idolterous descendance of Ishmael.
I know the world has allsorts but for a former jew to utter this is just plain shocking. Do you honestly believe the children of Ishmael the uncle of Jacob had prophethood in their lineage, do you not see the significance of the descandants of Ishmael vying for the birth right akin to Esau and Jacob? Do you honestly believe Adam had a book, and so did Abraham all divinely revealed by frothing at the mouth, heart palpitations, swooning, bell ringing and bee buzzing sounds? Do you honestly believe this is how God inspired the prophets?
A word of advice before copying and pasting articles from answering-christianity be sure to check it has not already been refuted in answering-islam, this particular discovery has already been exposed as a pack of lies
Here you go again. You never checked the reference link, this tells me you can careless of what proof is presented, this shows your zeal of arrogance in this dialogue. If you had checked the link you will see it is not answering-christianity it is an Arab Christian web site
http://www.al-bushra.org/arbhrtg/arbxtn04.htm .
I am being scientific in the matter which you cannot do. Now I would agree with you on one thing though until this new discovery has become more general and published with pics to show proof of its discovery then we all can doubt its authenticity but it can still be considered until warranting evidence is shown contrary.
Rest assured I read it, all credibility you had with me are now suspect. Let me get this straight you are referring me to a
'christian' website to show that the arab
'christian' had "in the name of allah" in their inscriptions?
The first term is aramaic not arab christian and it means "In the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit" in aramaic, you can see where the plagiarism of bismillah came from. You do know that rahman in aramaic means 'son' isn't allah also known as al rahman? with the definitive article meaning "the son"?
I would like know where you learnt Aramaic from ? Umm you forgot I use to be Jewish,
So you say, for all I know it is incumbent on a good muslim to lie for the benefit of the religion.
and one of the things, just like in islam, we stressed is to learn Hebrew and Aramaic to be less reliable on translations. Father ? what word means father in that so called aramaic phrase in " Bism El-Lah al Rahman al Rahim " ? Rahman in Aramaic means Son ? Hmmm why havent you produced your proof from an Aramaic Lexicon source ?
Maybe I should have stressed that it was a syriac phrase from arab christians. (Source:
http://www.answer-islam.org/Osamalie.html)
not related to the lexicon website you are so happy to show.
It is a good thing you stress that the archealogical discovery on the website has to be taken with a pinch of salt as it doesn't look very professional, because it can easily be shown to be the other way round, pagan arabs being the first to utter the bismillah; this doesn't help you, either the website information is a lie in which case pagan arabs were the first to utter the bismillah, or the website is telling the truth about christian arabs praising God in a different language than aramaic or arabic which the nearest equivalent in arabic is what you are so happy to quote.
I don't have to remind you how efficient muslims were at converting former places of worship regardless of the religion into theirs, a muslim could simply have put that inscription in a former church.
I also suggest you read the arabic catholic website again
This is what http://www.answering-christianity.com/allah.htm the original source you plagiarised your material said:
Most Recent Discoveries:
Recently Father Pecerillo, a famous Franciscan Archiologist, found more than twenty churches in Madaba at the south of Jordan. From the Forth Century we found houses in Syria, Lebanon, Iraq and Palestine with this inscription in Arabic :"Bism Allah al Rahman al Rahim" which showed that Christians were the first to use this name, Allah for GOD Almighty, which proves that the name of GOD Almighty in the Noble Quran, "Allah" is the correct one. This also proves to us that the Bible is not all found. There are still missing pieces in it that disprove trinity.
This is what the Arabic Catholic site says: -
http://www.al-bushra.org/arbhrtg/arbxtn04.htm
Recently Father Pecerillo, a famous Franciscan Archiologist, found morethan twenty churches in Madaba at the south of Jordan. From the Forth Century we found houses in Syria, Lebanon, Iraq and Palestine with this inscriptionin Arabic :"Bism El-Lah al Rahman al Rahim" that showed that Christians were the first to use this name so as to indicate their beliefin the Holy Trinity, more than two hundred years before Islam.
Can you see it? Hint (about the Trinity)