Christian/Muslim ThreadsThe moon god - al-ilah
That Hadith mentions nothing of Hubal directly or indirectly, and Did you read the Hadith and Quran Verse's I posted ? Your interpretation of Tabari's hadith contradicts Quran and the hadith above which is SAHIH (Authentic) that declares Allah is Greater than Hubal. To remind you Tabari's collection of Hadith are not ruled as Sahih. Also in the religon of ISLAM Hadiths are not inspired nor are they the WORDS OF ALLAH, they do not supersede the Quran in Islam. Islam does not deny the history that the pagans gave reverence to Allah. This does not denote that Allah was an Idol as you interpretated it to be that contradicts my posting that supersede yours by authority. If you dont know the levels of authority of hadeeth I think you need to go do a lot more studying. Tabari hadiths are hasan (good) there are not Sahih (sound/authentic), hasan hadiths DO NOT supersede Sahih hadiths in authority. Anyhow, regardless, your quote of Tabari hadith doesnt say anything of Allah being an Idol. As again, the Abrahamic religion was idolterated by the descendants of Ishmael in which the rights of sacrifice to Allah was originally part of the Abrahamic religion that was still practiced by the idolterous descendance of Ishmael. The quotation from the quran makes it clear that the practice of sacrifice was apointed upon all people in whom Allah sent messengers to including the children of Israel whom are spoken of more times in the Quran than any other people. The Blood atonement of sin in Islam is pagan and is rejected where as the meat and blood of the sacrificial animal means nothing to Allah. So if Allah was an idol why would He say not to eat food that is sacrifice to any Idol. Thus would include Allah himself then all of us muslims would have to starve to death. You interpretation is silly in quoting Tabari hadiths and again prejudiced. You dont know nothing about the teaching of Islam you are just following what some web site keeps on rambling about that keeps you quoting Tabari hadiths from and not one quote form the supreme authority which is the Quran. This is the foundation of the Muslims faith, hadiths are subject to error and contradiction not Quran, and if you wish to debate on what you may claim to be contradictions in the Quran we can do this on another forum " Does the Quran have contradictions " http://www.jesus-christ-forums.com/home/viewtopic ... 3357#33357 . and I hope you are versed in Arabic. Your repeating your self. I already refuted this with the islamic tradition and Quranic teaching of how the Abrahamic faith was once pure and then currupted and then restored to its original status. Thus is per your own words "what about their own God given logic when applied to their scruptures? what exactly does the holy books have to say, what does the quran and sunnah have to say this should take precedence over any apologetic material." in which you never posted a single Quranic verse is superior to any hadith.What you are doing is to the same manner if I was to go back to the history of the Jews when they idolterated the religion of Moses when they started woshiping Baal and other deities but still revered YHWH along with other deities. So does this mean that YHWH in the Bible was a pagan god ? SubhaanaAlllaah !. Here you go again. You never checked the reference link, this tells me you can careless of what proof is presented, this shows your zeal of arrogance in this dialogue. If you had checked the link you will see it is not answering-christianity it is an Arab Christian web site http://www.al-bushra.org/arbhrtg/arbxtn04.htm . I am being scientific in the matter which you cannot do. Now I would agree with you on one thing though until this new discovery has become more general and published with pics to show proof of its discovery then we all can doubt its authenticity but it can still be considered until warranting evidence is shown contrary. I would like know where you learnt Aramaic from ? Umm you forgot I use to be Jewish, and one of the things, just like in islam, we stressed is to learn Hebrew and Aramaic to be less reliable on translations. Father ? what word means father in that so called aramaic phrase in " Bism El-Lah al Rahman al Rahim " ? Rahman in Aramaic means Son ? Hmmm why havent you produced your proof from an Aramaic Lexicon source ? The Hebrew and Aramaic word for father is " ab " http://www.studylight.org/lex/heb/view.cgi?number=01 so where is "ab" in " Bism El-Lah al Rahman al Rahim " ? Rahman in Arabic and Aramaic both come from the semetic root " rahim (arabic), racham (hebrew), rakhem (aramaic) http://www.studylight.org/lex/heb/view.cgi?number=07355 both meaning to be have compassion or mercy . Rahman (Arabic), Rachman (Hebrew fem. Rachmaniy) Rakhmiyn [mRakhman] (aramaic) all mean merciful or compassionate http://www.studylight.org/lex/heb/view.cgi?number=07362 . These links are for both Hebrew and Aramaic. But if you want Aramaic only then you can go here http://www.atour.com/cgi-bin/lexicon.cgi If you dont know how to type Aramaic then type the root code " Mxr " or the root word number 19813 . As for " Rakhmiyn " the lexical code is 29799 and for "mRakhman" is 19770 which are all derived from the aramaic root Mxr = rakhem ~ to have mercy or compassion. In "mRakhman" the prefixed aramaic letter "mem" or "m" is gramatical to make the word a proper adjective . For the Aramaic words for "SON" please go to http://www.atour.com/cgi-bin/lexicon.cgi then Type "Son" into the search drive. Liberate you are making stuff up. The Phrase " Bism El-Lah al Rahman al Rahim " does not mean " In the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit " Prove it, I just proved it is not using Christian sources with Hebrew/Aramaic Lexicons, You are fagricating things here. |
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