I was begining to enjoy your formal until you went off into a whole new different topic which was irrelevant to the point I brought up backed by hard core proof and evidence. It seems you want to apply your own rules of logic and reasoning which is not authenticated with an unbiased approached in which you seriously lacked in.
You know it becomes pointless if all anybody does is quote and plagiarise what academics have to say on a matter,
Let us apply some common sense here, the alledged christian missionaries and orientalists did not reach the conclusion that allah is a contraction of " al ilah" by themselves, I am quite frankly surprised you can make such a claim that the arabic language makes no leeway for such a contraction,...
What you call academics have produce no proof but mere conjecture, as a matter of fact I dont think you ever even read the posted sites on the technicalities of the word
http://www.geocities.com/uwas2001/Dunleep.htm ,
http://www.answering-islam.org/Quran/So ... laha2.html These men are acquinted with the language and the word Allah from its original source in Arabic it self. If you did, you would of seen that these men clearly with the knowledge of the Language who speak it and live it have laid down the foundations of constructive criticism against the contrary. As I said from before:
All those who claim the name Allah is a contraction of al-ilah make no reference to Arabic authorities such as Arabic Scholars or Arabic Lexicons
.
The missionaries and oreintalists fail to Quote Arabic Scholars and Lexicons only other contemporaries, however, they never failed in doing this when it comes to their own scripture or with the name "YHWH" they quote Hebrew and Aramaic Lexicons and scholars, but why wont they do the same for the name "Allah" by quoting the PROFESIONALS ~ the scholars of the Language ? This seems to be prejudice if you ask me. You apply a rule of logic to your self but you dont apply the same rule to another...that is being bias.
...what about their own God given logic when applied to their scruptures? what exactly does the holy books have to say, what does the quran and sunnah have to say this should take precedence over any apologetic material
This is your statement, I was enjoying this part till you started to prejudice the matter. I did make reference to this as you can see above in my last quote and proved that Allah and Hubal where not the same deity from the sources it self the Quran and Authentic Hadeeth (Sunnah) but you over looked this and got stuck on another agenda, and you failed to acknowldge that in the ISLAMIC TEACHING it explains those so called alledged practices that you called PAGAN:
In islam based on the Quran and Sunnah when Adam and his wife finally came down to the Earth from the paradise (Quran 2:30-39) they received words from their Lord of how to repent in which they learnt and weeped unto their Lord with these words upon the earth (Quran 7:23). This place on earth was named after the commemoration of the even of Adam and his wife called "Bakka" meaning "a place of weeping or wailing" where the first house of worship for mankind (Quran 3:96) was built by Adam and his wife when mankind was only ONE NATION before they became divided (Quran 2:213,10:19). After a period of time man fell into idolotry and started to worship other things, and currupted the sacred house in which prophets were sent to them to warn them ( Quran 2:219 ) but they became divided and began to disperse through out the land each group following their own desires of a deity. Due to the sins of the people the land of Bakka that was once an Oasis like Egypt became a desolation that made the region uninhabitable. After a period of time Allah chose and guided Abraham out of his home land to a blessed land and gave him a son called Ishmael and then guided them both to the anchient and sacred land of Bakka to re-establish His sacred house and to pruify it from idols (Quran 2:124-129). Thus the foundations of the sacred house was the only remains that was there from former times in which Abraham and his son lefted up, rebuilt, and purified when Ishmael passed the age of puberty. Before this, Ismael and his mother was left in the sacred land of Bakka by Abraham per the instructions of Allah. Hajjar (Haggar) Ishmael's mother sought for water for her son but could not find none, and feared death of her son and her self if she did not soon. She cried unto Allah in which Allah answered her prayer and sent an angel to root up a well. A well was sprung and water flourished for her and her son. The water drew the attention of wild life that drew the attention of passing bedouin travelers that showed signs of water. Tribes began to be attracted to the location cause of its water in which they settle there in which the land was now and again inhabitable. After this the place had began to be called "Makka" meaning "a place of water" and Bakka remained as its anchient name due to the commemoration of Adam and his Wife. Thus a community evolved with Ishmael and his mother. Abraham returned after his son passed the age of Puberty to rebuild the ancient house (Shahih Al- Bukhari Volumn 004, Book 055, Hadith Number 583) From Hence the right of Ramadhan, Al-Hajj, Ummrah, and the Salah was taught to Ishmael by Abraham through inspiration from Allah (Quran 2:129-132,135; 14:35-41). After this Ishmael taught these rights and practices to his family and tribe who became the custodians of the sacred House. After generations passed, like before, the descendants of Ishmael fell into idolorty and incorporated other practices into the once pure religion and practice taught by Abraham to his son. These descendants idoltorated the religion, and inovated pratices into it that became customs and traditional practices among the Arabs of that region NOT originally belonging to the Religion of Abraham "millatu Ibraheem" ie the religious practice of Ibraheem in which later was purified and restored by the advent of Muhammad as a prophet of Allah whom was revealed the Quran as a divine book of Guidance (Quran 3:67-68,95-97)
You showed a partial of the picture but didnt dare to elaborate on the rest of the Islamic teachings pertaining to this subject which was fully presented above. In other words you took things out of their context from their correct prospective into your own. You went back only so far but didnt go back more into the history of the islamic tradition and teaching. Of course this goes against your christian teachings so you desregarded it as false but only presented that which you can use against islam that does not conflict with you beliefs, but strengthens it, to prove in your eyes islam is a pagan religion.
It seems you are the one here very biased and dishonest, but your veiw was not a SCIENTIFIC and UNBIASED approach, but strickly a christian indoctrinated view which natural will be biased, and does not constitute the ramification of truth.
I can also polk holes into Christianity showing its parallel beliefs to that of other pagan and anchient religions of the world in the light of comparitive religion, but this is not my motive, and I dont wish to lower my self down to such a degree. I came to this post to clearify what WESTERN CHRISTIANS keep making propaganda about an arabic name "Allah".
...I am quite frankly surprised you can make such a claim that the arabic language makes no leeway for such a contraction, when we both know arabic is a difficult language precisely because words can be contracted and have several meanings based from the contraction
Do you know Arabic ? What type of words can you contract in Arabic, and when does this rule apply ? Well I will jump the gun and say that you dont know not a thing about arabic grammar nor about the clusterization of words and how they are applied, nor the science of Arabic Orthography. Let us look at what is said about the flaw in the supposed contraction:
“Alllaah”
Not a contraction
The English customary spelling “Allah” syllable as “al - lah” in English dictionaries and encyclopedias has often been misrepresented as to its etymology or nature of the word without any Arabic authoritive sources such as Arabic Dictionaries, Lexicons, or Arabic Scholars them selves.
Due to its English customary spelling it is often viewed by western writers that the English transliterated letters “a,l,l,a,h” are a contraction of two Arabic words based on a linguistical prestige (in English not Arabic). Thus being ignorant of the fact, and the language it self, that the second “L” in Arabic script called “laam” is a double consonant letter.
The first two letters “al” is perceived as the definite article (the), and the three following letters “laah” ( sometimes rendered in English as “lah” ) is the contracted Arabic word “ilaah (deity)” where the weak radical “a”, in Arabic called “alif” - pronounced as an “i” in “ilaah”, is dropped for a contraction.
Example
1) al ilah (the deity)
2) al lah
3) al-lah
4) Allah
Based on this western hypothesis, and its manipulative fraudulent philosophy which is misleading, the word is assumed to mean ‘the god’ or ‘the deity’ denoting the supreme deity out of others as the main one. The double consonant “L”(laam) in the original Arabic has been edited in English exegesis of the word as a single consonant giving it a linguistical prestige in English as an
“al ilah” contraction. This reason because, the double consonant “L”, which would be properly spelled with three L’s(Alllah) serves no purpose in English as it does in Arabic. If the customary English spelling of the name it self is transliterated back into Arabic it would spell “ alif, laam, laam, fatah, ha” reading “allah(a)” (Note: This word in Arabic has NO article) which would be a different word in Arabic meaning “Deification” whereas the name in its original Arabic is spelled as “alif, laam, laam, laam, alif maqsoorah, ha’a” reading “alllaah”. On the other hand, a contraction of the words “al-ilah” is not possible in the Arabic language because the grammar behind it does no permit it as will be shown in the reality of the words in their original language which have been manipulated in English.
In The Arabic language when the second radical letter of a word is doubled, by stressing it, it either enhances the word or changes its meaning all together. When the Arabic word “ilaah”(deity) is pronounced as “illaah” by stressing its second radical consonant “L” to double “ll” it changes the meaning from “deity” to “except him” where the “h” consonant is converted into a masculine suffix pronoun.
With the contraction theory of “al ilah” applied in Arabic, rather than in English, the second radical letter “L” in the Arabic word “ilaah” is doubled when the “i”(alif kasrah) is dropped to take the word “al” in order to contract “al” and “lah” in the Arabic language.
EXAMPLE
1) al ilaah
2) al-llaah
3) alllaah
Such an etymological contraction is not possible in the Arabic language in which the word would be meaningless therefore prohibited
http://www.geocities.com/uwas2001/Dunleep.htm
Please go back to above link Quote to read the full article.
Now let us see what our knowledgeable christians who have some sort of knowledge of arabic have to say :
The spelling (rasm) "'lyh" was even involved in finding the ultimate orthography
for God's name "Allaah" in Arabic. It is hard to believe that "Allaah" goes back
to Arabic "al-'ilaah", as Edward William Lane summarizes the traditional
theoretical efforts of the Arab grammarians in his Arabic-English Lexicon.
http://www.answering-islam.org/Quran/So ... laha2.html
These are plain logical facts presented in the light of Arabic grammar and Orthography and Lexiconic reality.
Every arabic speaker knows it literally means " there is no god except the god"
so which term is the god? and which term simply means 'god'?
The term 'Rasulu-llah' or "rasullah" means "slave of god" which term is god?
There are numerous muslim material that state that "allah" is a contraction of "al -ilah" are you honestly telling us they are all in error?
Again do you speak arabic ? I speak fus'ha Arabic and when I read the statement "laa ilaaha illallaah" it means only " there is no ilaah ~ (God/god) except Allah " . The name Allah in arabic is a proper noun. It does not mean "there is no god but the god" which is a contradiction to it self cause "the god" is vague as you implied, but denoting the main god out of others which still would give the notion of other gods.
Yes I would agree that many Muslims think the name Allah is a contraction of al-ilah. They are merely following something they have no knowledge of and cannot produce proof from an Arabic Dictionary or Lexicon cause NONE of the Arabic Lexicon or Dictionaries confirm the name is a contraction. Most of these same muslims believe suicide bombing is allowed in islam but when you turn the pages of the Quran we find the opposite :
Oh You who believe ! Do not eat up your wealth among you selves in vainity except that it be traffic and trade by mutual good-will; and do not kill your selves, verily Allah has been to you most merciful (Quran 4:29)
Some of those who speak arabic do not even know there own language, the same for people who speak english but are horrible in grammar and lack of understanding the definition of words, Whom both, are ignorant of the actual meaning but only follow that which they hear in tradition.
I do not see a valid point here, 400 years before Mohammed the symbol of Hubal was already being put atop of roofs.
There is a very valid point here. Islam never had incorporated the symbol of the Crescent Moon until after the Ottoman empire in which it was adopted from. Please visit the facts
http://www.fotw.net/flags/islam.html this is not a muslim web site this is Flags and Symbols research site with numerous reference by the ELITE scholars, historians, and theologians, and not one of them are muslim.
Islam was obtained from paganism, it is seethed in paganism, you are a pagan, it is an insult to us, the apostles, christianity and to God for you to claim you serve the same God.
No love in those words at all. But they are noted and respected as your opinion and I am happy to be assualted for the sake of the truth for the son of Maryam the servant of God. Yes you are right about one thing WE do not worship the same God. If you beleive Jesus is God, or for the Arabic speaking Christians Jesus is Allah, no we DO not worship the same God, and any muslims that says such a thing obviously does not know his own book
Indeed those(Arabic speaking Christians) have disblieved who say: Verily Allah is he the Messiah son of Maryam...(Quran 5:17,72)
Now as for those Christians who do not beleive the son of Maryam is God or Allah or YHWH or Aalaha (aramaic) then yes we all Jews, Chrisitians and muslims worship the same God. As me being a former Jew, Jews also say the same about Christians who worship Jesus as pagans, and that they do not worhip the same God as those Christians that worship Jesus in which the Jews deny him all together as an imposter and false prophet. please read the Jewish Thalmud.
What name did Jesus use to refer to the almighty creator in his mother tongue ? The Aramaic name was Aalah the Aramaic form of the Arabic name Allaah. Reference goto
www.peshitta.org Click on TOOLS/LEXICON then enter into search drive the word GOD click on search and there you have it from the Aramaic lexicon new testament bible concordance.