Christian/Muslim ThreadsLucifers Pride!MuhammedAli Wrote I answer all your questions to the best of my knowledge. MuhammedAli Wrote No problem. MuhammedAli Wrote Jesus Christ did many miracles in human form, so did former prophets. The same cant be said about Muhammad. Is Jesus God? Many people have dealt with this "spiritual" dispute by intellectually accepting Jesus as a great man, great teacher, or great prophet. However, Jesus and His inspired followers didn't mince words when they declared Him to be God (John 10:30-38, Matthew 16:13-17, Mark 14:61-64, John 14:6, Hebrews 1:8, Colossians 1:16, John 12:40-41 [quoting Isaiah 6:1-10]). Therefore, any type of intellectual compromise calling Jesus a "good man" is logically inconsistent. Why? Because there are really only three legitimate alternatives for the identity of Jesus Christ. He is either a liar, a lunatic or our Lord and God. Since Jesus claimed to be God, His claims are either true or false. Lets take a look at biblical scripture, and see how Christians come to the concultion that Jesus Christ is both God and man. A key verse showing Jesus is God is John 5:18: "For this cause therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill [Jesus], because He not only was breaking the Sabbath [as they defined it], but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God." Jesus referred to the Father in such a familiar way (v. 17), unlike other Jews, they thought He was committing blasphemy. Similarly, Jesus stated in John 10:30, "I and the Father are one." For this remark, the Jews immediately (v. 31) "picked up stones again to stone Him." Why? "'For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God." At this point, if Jesus wasn't God, immediately He could have clarified His identity by issuing a simply plain denial right then. Instead, side-stepping the accusation by quoting Psalms 82:6, He affirms He is the Son of God. The Jews understood Jesus when He used the title "the Son of God" to imply divinity and not just Messiahship. Then consider John 8:58: "Jesus said to them, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.'" Implying He was God. consider Jesus' ability to forgive sins by His own authority. While healing the paralytic, Jesus told him: "your sins are forgiven" (Mark 2:5; cf. Luke 5:19). Immediately, some of the scribes hearing Him questioned His apparent presumption: "Why does this man speak that way? He is blaspheming; who can forgive sins but God alone?" (Mark 2:7). Despite knowing their thinking, Jesus proceeded to assert His authority to forgive sins. Since only God is worthy of worship (Matt. 4:10), if Jesus was worshiped by anyone without Him rebuking him (cf. Rev. 22:8-9; Acts 10:25-26; 14:12-15), that would prove His Deity. The Magi from the east "came into the house and saw the Child with Mary His mother; and they fell down and worshiped Him" (Matt. 2:11). (Matt. 14:33): "And those who were in the boat worshiped Him, saying, 'You are certainly God's Son!'" when the disciples first met Jesus after His resurrection (Matt. 28:9; cf. v. 17): "They came up and took hold of His feet and worshiped Him." Hebrews 1:6 states the angels worshipped Christ: "And when He again brings the first-born into the world, He says: 'And let all the angels of God worship Him.'" "From the beginning of the ages has been hidden in God who created all things through Jesus Christ" (Eph. 3:9). "Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him" (I Cor. 8:6). "All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made" (John 1:3, NKJV). "For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities--all things have been created by Him and for Him. And He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together" (Col. 1:16-17). Logically, if Jesus made "ALL things," then He Himself couldn't be one of the "things" made! 'I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,' says the Lord, 'who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty" (Rev. 1:8, NKJV). Paul affirmed the Deity of Christ in Col. 2:9: "For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form." Titus 2:13: "Looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus." A similar expression appears in II Peter 1:1: "by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ." There are to many verses and paragraphs in the bible, that lead us to understand that Jesus Is God. Jesus always has existed (John 8:58; 10:30). When Jesus was conceived, He was becoming a human being in addition to being God (John 1:1,14). Jesus is both God and man. Jesus has always been God, but He did not become a human being until He was conceived in Mary. Jesus became a human being so that He could identify with us in our struggles (Heb 2:17), and most importantly so that He could die on the cross to pay the penalty for our sins (Phil 2:5-11). Again, it is impossible for us to be able to fully understand how Jesus could be both God and man at the same time. This is something that requires faith and trust on our part. Just because we don’t understand something fully does not mean it is not true. MuhammedAli Wrote
Concerning the issue of the Fig tree: Matt 24:32"Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it(Or he) is near, right at the door. 34I tell you the truth, this generation (Or race )will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. Earlier He had cursed a fig tree, and it withered. Matt 21:19 Seeing a fig tree by the road, he went up to it but found nothing on it except leaves. Then he said to it, "May you never bear fruit again!" Immediately the tree withered. Even earlier He had related this parable: Luke 13:6Then he told this parable: "A man had a fig tree, planted in his vineyard, and he went to look for fruit on it, but did not find any. 7So he said to the man who took care of the vineyard, `For three years now I've been coming to look for fruit on this fig tree and haven't found any. Cut it down! Why should it use up the soil?' 8" `Sir,' the man replied, `leave it alone for one more year, and I'll dig around it and fertilize it. 9If it bears fruit next year, fine! If not, then cut it down.' " We find the whole House of Israel symbolized as a vineyard: (NKJ)Hos 10:7The vineyard of the LORD Almighty is the house of Israel, and the men of Judah are His pleasant plant. We find the "men of Judah" symbolized as figs: Jer 24:4Then the word of the LORD came to me: 5"This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: `Like these good figs, I regard as good the exiles from Judah, whom I sent away from this place to the land of the Babylonians.B Therefore, symbolically the whole House of Israel if the vineyard and the FIG TREE is the house of Judah. What does this mean? When Messiah(Jesus) spoke the parable of finding no fruit on the fig tree(Judah) for three years He was speaking of His last ministry and indicated Judah would remain a little longer. When He spoke to the fig tree(Judah) and caused it to wither He indicated it would cease, which Judea did many centuries ago. When He points to the lesson of the fig tree connected to the time of the end He is indicating the fig tree(Judah) will again start to put out shoots, which happened in May of 1948. At that point He tells us that "summer is near" and "He is right at the door". At this point , May 1948, the "seven weeks", that is forty nine years, of Dan 9 begin counting again. Isaac Newton also recognized that these "seven weeks" were to occur after the last coming in his interpretation of Daniel. It does not take a mathematical genius to figure little time remains. You have to understand what the Fig Tree cursing is about, its not simple about He (Jesus) was hungry and there was no fruit. MuhammedAli Wrote I have responded to that, and I told you that the bible isn't contradicting itself it shows us that Jesus was both man and God. I have given you some bible verses above, which state Jesus is God to "analaze". MuhammedAli Wrote If its in the Bible its God's Word, so it doesnt matter who said it. John 13:38: Then Jesus answered, "Will you really lay down your life for me? I tell you the truth, before the rooster crows, you will disown me three times! Mark 14:66:72 While Peter was below in the courtyard, one of the servant girls of the high priest came by. When she saw Peter warming himself, she looked closely at him. "You also were with that Nazarene, Jesus," she said. But he denied it. "I don't know or understand what you're talking about," he said, and went out into the entryway.[1] When the servant girl saw him there, she said again to those standing around, "This fellow is one of them." Again he denied it. After a little while, those standing near said to Peter, "Surely you are one of them, for you are a Galilean." He began to call down curses on himself, and he swore to them, "I don't know this man you're talking about." Immediately the rooster crowed the second time.[2] Then Peter remembered the word Jesus had spoken to him: "Before the rooster crows twice[3] you will disown me three times." And he broke down and wept. How did Jesus know that Peter would later deny knowing Him 3 times, after the rooster crowed? MuhammedAli Wrote
By us I mean my fellow Christian brothers, Don't worry. MuhammedAli Wrote When you come across a verse in the bible that clearly indicates Jesus is God, you start saying that the bible was not what Jesus preached? I have told you already both in the OT and NT there are refrences that state Jesus is God. Behold! The virgin shall conceive and bear a Son, and shall call His name Immanuel. (Isaiah 7:14)" The name Immanuel (Jesus) means "God with us", you figure it out. And the world rejoiced and cried out, "Unto us a Child is born, unto us a Son is given. And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace! (Isaiah 9:6) Again the above is proof from the Jewish scriptures, that indicate Jesus is God. MuhammedAli Wrote First of all Consider the following: 1 Timothy 6:3:10 If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching, 4he is conceited and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions 5and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain. 6But godliness with contentment is great gain. 7For we brought nothing into the world, and we can take nothing out of it. 8But if we have food and clothing, we will be content with that. 9People who want to get rich fall into temptation and a trap and into many foolish and harmful desires that plunge men into ruin and destruction. 10For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs. 2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, So God IS saying whatever is in the bible. Jesus called himself "I am" a direct reference to God's statement to Moses from the burning bush: And God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM." And He said, "Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, 'I AM has sent me to you.'" (Exodus 3:14) "Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM." John 8:58 It is clear from the context that this is just exactly how Jesus meant his statement. It is also clear that His hearers took this statement as a claim to be God because they immediately picked up stones to stone Him. (Stoning was the penalty under Jewish law for blasphemy against the name of God (Exodus 24:11-16) Now you show me from the bible, where Jesus says he was not God! MuhammedAli Wrote I understand it, and I told you before Just because we don’t understand something fully does not mean it is not true. MuhammedAli Wrote Are you saying Jesus sinned? First Jesus never sinned, God cannot Sin. Lets take a look at scripture: Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth: (1 Pet 2:22) Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth why do ye believe me not? (John 8:46) For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. (Heb 4:13) For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. (2 Cor 5:21) And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. (1 Jn. 3:5) The bible says Jesus never commited sin. Islam also acknowledges that Jesus was without sin. One person, to whom neither the Qur'an nor the Hadith ascribe sin, is Jesus. He never sinned. He never made a mistake. The Hadith also speaks of Jesus as being sinless. Bukhari, for example, relates the following Hadith: When any human being is born [lit. all the children of Adam as they are born], Satan touches [lit. thrusts] him at both sides of the body with his two fingers, except Jesus, the son of Mary, whom Satan tried to touch but failed. Amongst those who were born, only Jesus, son of Mary, was untouched by Satan and not overpowered by him. Why was Jesus singled out for this matchless distinction? Because he was the perfect, sinless God who sacrificed himself for mankind. MuhammedAli Wrote I suggest you give it. MuhammedAli Wrote It doesnt matter if EMMANUEL was mentioned once or a hundred times, its in the bible. I find it amusing that when you cant explain something you resort to saying someone inserted this word into the bible, or that its a corrupt text. The fact is the word Emmanuel is found in the book of Isaiah, which is part of the Old Testament! So no, nobody inserted this word. The Book of Isaiah is the first and longest of the books of the Major Prophets in the Old Testament of the Bible. It derives its name from the prophet Isaiah, who lived in Jerusalem. His prophetic career spanned half a century, from around 742 BC. Behold! The virgin shall conceive and bear a Son, and shall call His name Immanuel. (Isaiah 7:14)" The book of Isaiah existed hundreds of years before Christ' ministry, so it was Always part of the Jewish scriptures. Jesus fulfilled Isaiah's prophecy. MuhammedAli wrote Here you are saying that Jesus said "I am he" not "I am He" therefore Jesus was speaking about him being the Messiah not God, according to you. Well if you read a few verses up from John 8:24 it says, in John 8:18 "I am He who bears witness of Myself, and the Father who sent Me bears witness of Me." so now does this mean he is God? Jesus answered, "If I glorify Myself, My glory is nothing; it is My Father who glorifies Me, of whom you say, ‘He is our God’; 55 and you have not come to know Him, but I know Him; and if I say that I do not know Him, I shall be a liar like you, but I do know Him, and keep His word. 56 "Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad." 57 The Jews therefore said to Him, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?" 58 Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am." 59 Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself, and went out of the temple. Read it in context. MuhammedAli Wrote Lets take a look at the Quran; "And call to mind when the unbelievers plotted against thee, that they might detain thee, or slay thee, or expel thee. Yea, they plotted; but God plotted likewise. And God is the best of plotters." (Q.8: 29) God is the best plotter? Surah 2: ayat 193. Fight against them until idolatry is no more and Allah’s religion reigns supreme. Surah 2: ayat 216. Fighting is obligatory for you, much as you dislike it. But you may hate a thing although it is good for you, and love a thing although it is bad for you. Allah knows, but you do not. Surah 9: ayat 41. Whether unarmed or well-equipped, march on and fight for the cause of Allah, with your wealth and your persons. This will be best for you, if you but knew it, Surah 8: ayat 39. Make war on them until idolatry is no more and Allah’s religion reigns supreme. Surah 9: ayat 123. Believers! make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Let them find harshness in you. Surah 66: ayat 9. O Prophet! make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal sternly with them. Hell shall be their home, evil their fate. Surah 9: ayat 73. O Prophet! Make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites. Be harsh with them. Their ultimate abode is Hell, a hapless journey’s end. Surah 8: ayat 65. O Prophet! Exhort the believers to fight. If there are twenty steadfast men among you, they shall vanquish two hundred; and if there are a hundred, they shall rout a thousand unbelievers, for they are devoid of understanding. Surah 8: ayat 12. I shall cast terror into the hearts of the infidels. Strike off their heads, maim them in every limb. What a peaceful God! Surah 9: ayat 39. If you do not fight He will punish you sternly and replace you by other men… Surah 9: ayat 111. Allah has purchased of the faithful their lives and worldly goods and in return has promised them the Garden. They will fight for His cause, slay and be slain. Such is the true pledge which He has made them in the Torah, the Gospel and the Koran. And who is more true to His promise than Allah? Rejoice then in the bargain you have made. That is the supreme triumph. In the bible we dont fight for God, God fights for us. Surah 4: ayat 100. He that flies his homeland for the cause of Allah shall find numerous places of refuge in the land and great abundance. He that leaves his dwelling to fight for Allah and His apostle and is then overtaken by death, shall be rewarded by Allah. Allah is forgiving and merciful. Surah 48: ayat 29. Muhammad is Allah’s apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another… Through them Allah seeks to enrage the unbelievers. Surah 49: ayat 15. The true believers are those that have faith in Allah and His apostle and never doubt; and who fight for His cause with their wealth and persons. Such are those whose faith is true. Surah 8: ayats 59-60. Let the unbelievers not think that they will escape Us. They have not the power to do so. Muster against them all the men and cavalry at your disposal, so that you may strike terror into the enemies of Allah and the faithful, and others besides them. All that you give for the cause of Allah shall be repaid you. You shall not be wronged. Surah 9: ayat 29. Fight against such of those to whom the Scriptures were given as believe neither in Allah nor the Last Day, who do not forbid what Allah and His apostle have forbidden, and do not embrace the true faith, until they pay tribute out of hand and are utterly subdued. What ever happened to no compulsion in religion(Quran 2:256)? Surah 8: ayat 67. It is not for any Prophet to have captives until he has made slaughter in the land… Surah 29: ayat 6. He that fights for Allah’s cause fights for himself… Surah 29: ayat 69. Those that fight for Our cause We will surely guide to our own paths. Allah is with the righteous. Surah 9: ayat 5. When the sacred months are over slay the idol-worshippers wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them. If they repent and take to prayer and pay the alms-tax, let them go their way. Allah is forgiving and merciful. Surah 9: ayat 14. Fight them! Allah will chastise them at your hands, and He will lay them low and give you victory over them, and He will heal the breasts of folk who are believers. Surah 4: ayats 95-96. The believers who stay at home - apart from those that suffer from a grave impediment - are not equal to those -who fight for the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah has given those that fight with their goods and their persons a higher rank than those who stay at home. He has promised all a good reward: but far richer is the recompense of those who fight for Him: rank of His own bestowal, forgiveness, and mercy. Allah is forgiving and merciful. Surah 3: ayat 142. Did you suppose that you would enter Paradise before Allah has proved the men who fought for Him and endured with fortitude? What a peaceful religion. I am just glad I wasnt around in those times. now lets take a look at the Hadiths: Whoever changes his Islamic religion, kill him. Sahih Al-Bukhari (9:57) What ever happened to free will? "Acting as Allah's soldier for one night in a battlefield is superior to saying prayers at home for 2,000 years." (Ibn-E-Majah, Vol. 2, p. 166) wow! Abu Bakr, the first Caliph, is reported as saying in the Hadith: "I have been ordered to fight the people until they profess that there is no god but God and that Mohammad is the messenger of God" Lets get real Ali, Islam is not a religion of peace. Now lets look at the teachings of Jesus: Matthew 5:38:42 "You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.'But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you. Love for Enemies 43"You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor[2] and hate your enemy.' 44But I tell you: Love your enemies[3] and pray for those who persecute you, 45that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect. Very big difference to the teachings of Mohammad. Eph. 6:12-17: 12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. 13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. 14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth and having on the breastplate of righteousness; 15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace; 16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked. 17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. MuhammedAli Wrote Actually it doesnt answer my question, what it does is make the problem bigger. Take a look at this: Had God wanted to take a son, He would have selected of His creations, whichever He pleased; He is absolutely clear of all fault; He is the God, the One, the Almighty. (39:4) The Originator of the heavens and the earth; how can He have a son, when He does not even have a wife? He created everything; and He is knowledgeable of everything. (6:101) 39:4 clearly states that God could have taken for Himself a son from among His creation, ie without the necessity of a consort to father such a son. But 6:101 clearly rejects the same idea as a logical impossibility. Therefore thats a contradiction. MuhammedAli Wrote The "contradictions" in the bible are probably scribal errors, misinterpretation, or your lack of understanding. I wont post any Quranic contradictions Just yet, as I have a lot of questions that I still must answer. MuhammedAli Wrote The bible states Jesus is God, read above. MuhammedAli Wrote Could you show me some Quranic evidence that shows God has saved some genuine prophecies in the Bible? And if he did why didnt he just save the whole thing? With regards to the comming comforter: John 16:7 if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you During Christ’s ministry the gift of the Holy Ghost was not given to the disciples. The influence of the Holy Ghost was operative during his ministry but there was no need for the disciples to have two members of the Godhead testifying to them at the same time. There was no need for this sort of divine redundancy. Therefore, in order for them to benefit from the constant companionship of the Holy Ghost, they had to first lose the privilege of the constant companionship of Jesus. The Holy Ghost was poured out upon them, as promised, on the day of Pentecost (Acts 2). See also John 7:39. “…in the New Testament, the full powers and gifts of the Holy Ghost were not given in the Old World meridian Church until the day of Pentecost…While the Bridegroom was present with his disciples in the flesh, he was their Comforter, their Revelator, their Testator. He was their Life and Light, their source of power and might. ‘Hence, as long as Jesus was with the disciples in person, there was not the full need for them to have the constant companionship of the Spirit that there would be after Jesus left.’ But because of the vital role that Spirit would play thereafter in the growth, development, and expansion of the early Christian Church, Jesus said: ‘It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you’ (John 16:7 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another (allos) Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; John 14:16 Muhammad is dead. Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. John 14:17 IMuhammad is not a spirit, nethier does he dwell in people. I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. John 14:18 Holy spirit, I , Jesus, God. MuhammedAli Wrote Could you show me, where in the Quran does it say that God has protected some of the previous books from curruption? Could you show me where it says they where currupted at all? Why didnt God protect his words? MuhammedAli Wrote Surah 4:171: “O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of God aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) an apostle of God, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in God and His apostles. Say not "Trinity" : desist: it will be better for you: for God is one God (Wala Taqoolu Salasah): Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is God as a Disposer of affairs.” [/quote] Look at the above again, you will notice it says; "Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of God aught but the truth" It doesnt actually say the people of the book actually changed the writtings of the books. MuhammedAli Wrote Read the above again. “That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Apostle of God"; How could the Jews say such a thing? the Jews had been waiting for the Messiah at that time for 2,000 years! This Surah implies that the Jews knew they where killing the Messiah. Impossible. MuhammedAli Wrote Are you famliar with Jewish scripture? Surah at-Taubah, 9:30: And the Jews say, "Ezra is the Son of God;" and the Christians say, "The Messiah is the Son of God." ... While the statement about the Christian doctrine is correct, the claim that "Ezra is the Son of God" is wrong and such a belief has never been a part of the Jewish faith. It cannot be found in the Jewish Scriptures nor in the commentaries like Talmud and Mishnah. Until you can show me where in any part of the Jewish scriptures, Jews accept Ezra as the Son of God, this will remain a clear error in the Qur'an. MuhammedAli Wrote
You say that the verse on trinity; "for there are three that bear record in heaven father son and the holy spirit", is found to be a later inserition in the text. Could you please show me where you got this information from? Lets take a look at the Hadiths and see what they say about the Quran In one of the six most authentic Hadith books by Ibne Maja we find a parable told by Hazrat AyshaR, in which she says: "The aa'yaa on rape and nursing of babies were lying in book form, that was kept in the patio. When the Holy Messenger passed away, we became busy in his funeral. During this time, our domesticated pet goat ate the manuscript of these two aa'yaa. And so these aa'yaa were wasted." After this incident, it was decided that these two aa'yaa must not be included in the Quran. What happened to the "perfect", "complete" Quran? Both the Roman Catholic and Protestant Bibles have thirty-nine books in the Old Testament and twenty-seven in the New. First of all, the Catholic bible contains 7 more books then the Protestant bible, not 8. Catholics accept 73 books, Protestants 66. Second of all, the books the various churches accept, don't contradict central Christian doctrine. What about the Quran? Lets take a closer look. 1. The Qur'an was not yet compiled in scrolls or in book form when Muhammad died. 2. Before the death of Muhammad, Muhammad said, take Qur'an from four persons, who were close to him, but these four persons also died in wars and battles, without compiling the Qur’an. This makes the Qur'an’s vulnerable. Some said that it had been changed and altered, Due to conflict between Uthman and Ali, Uthman omitted the verses that praised Ali. 3. Anticipating the deaths of many of those who had memorised the Qur’an, prior to the Battle of the Day of Yamama, Abu Bakr commanded that the Qur'an be complied, at first this was resisted but later it was accomplished 4. The actual compilation of the Qur'an was an exceptionally difficult undertaking, because it was scattered throughout the region on palm branches, skin of dead animals and the bones of the dead animals. 5. Zaid used to compile it from the recitation of the Arabs or the witness of two persons together with an Arab's witness. 6. Qur’an constantly bore witness to the incredible unbelief and infidelity of the Arabs. 7. Ikrima said, even the jinn and mankind gather, they will not be able to put the Qur’an together one after the other as it was revealed. 8. The old codices of the Qur'an were lost. Some codices included the abrogative and the abrogated verses. 9. Certain verses of the Qur'an were missed to the degree that Umar exclaimed, Innalillah that is we may as well give it over to Allah. It is probably a prayer said over the dead body. 10. The disagreement took place during the reign of Uthman, until the Muslims killed each other. Therefore Uthman put together a copy and burned the remaining copies 11. Muslims arranged the Suras and verses according to their own discretion. As a result, the verses are often without any real context. 12. Sura al-Tawba 9 was as lengthy as Sura al-Baqara 2, but parts were omitted 13. There are variations in the codices of the Qur'an; Ibn Mas'ud's codex consists of 112 suras whereas Ubai's codex consists of 116 14. Sura al-Watar and Sura al-Khal' were dropped 15. Ibn Mas'ud omitted the first sura, along with al-Muauwadsatain 113 & 114, claiming that they were not the part of the Qur’an 16. The disagreement between Uthman and Ibn Mas'ud resulted from Uthman's burning all the other codices 17. Uthman did not take Ali's codex, so as not to be able to gloat over it 18. Sura al-Ahzab 33 consisted of 200 verses, as long as Sura al-Baqara 2, However, it is now only 72 or 73 verses in length. 19. Compilers of the Qur'an omitted the verse of Stoning 20. There was a prayer from Muhammad in the Qur'an before Uthman changed the codices. 21. Compilers omitted the story of those who fought at the Well of Mauna 22. Compilers omitted a sura that resembles Sura al-Musabbahat (The Rosary) 23. Al-Jajjaj b. Yosuf dropped the verses that condemned Banu Umaiyya and Banu al-Abbas; Al-Hajjaj burned the codices as well. He also altered 11 verses in the Qur'an 24. The Shi'ite scholars claimed that more than 200 verses of the Qur'an were slanted and altered, some of which have been quoted. Intresting! MuhammedAli Wrote As I believe that Islam is a false religion, and the work of Satan, I am not surprised that Islam was sent to the world, and not to a specific people only. After all Satan wants everyone to go to hell. MuhammedAli Wrote I don't want to lead you astray. I dont use "deceiving" tactics to try to co |
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