Hold on...
Hello all ,
I love the topic of this site , and would like to tell you both moslems and christians , that in order to convince any rational person that the book "X" contains something verifiable by science , which could have never been made up by either the common wisdom of the age at which the book is written , or could not have been deduced by any thinker or observer ,and therefore revealed by the creator of science , then there must be some rules that this particular quote must obey ( I already mentionned them):
1. It is independent of the common wisdom of the time. We can not just use any verse out of its historical context and read into it the hidden things of science. One can say that the sky is blue and the field is green without being being a person of a revelation , it is the obvious. The wishful religious person will see in this statement the defraction of the blue light , the water cycle , therefore the blueness of the sky... or the photosynthesis , chloroplasts , green pigments in them therefore the greenness of the field.
2. It is clear enough as to cause those people who have read it at the time till the rise of the scientific discovery in question to scoff at it or ridicule it , or those of faith in the revelation to go , search and advance to test it. It has to be very fresh to its time and place that no body has guessed or approved prior to that person. ( At this point anything that was predicted in the bible and obeys those simple criteria , can not be used to vindicate any claim about the same scientific facts in the Quran because the Bible was widely known and read in Arabia among christians and jews - The copyright issue. It is as if I go hand in a paper on the theory of relativity and the formula E = mc2 to a scientific journal with the claim that I am the first to invent it , and use it as a vindication of my scientific genius and my worth of a nobel prize. It doesn't work because somebody else got it right 50 years before me and I am affected by this knowledge coming down to me in 2004).
3. It has to be interpreted through the normal meanings allowed by the language without distortion or addition.
So now that we have the foundations laid down , let's look at the claims of both camps.
If the Bible got a fact right , and the Quran came restating it , then the Bible wins the right of being vindicated as a revealed book , and the Quran as a mere "quotation" rather than revelation.
Let's subject those three simple rules to the scientific claims of the Bible , hold on to those in harmony with the three rules , and reject those that violate any of them. Whatever we get as scientific claims , the Quran has no right to claim because it was available to Muhammed.
1. Time had a beginning - God is outside of Time and not subject to it. 2Timothy 1:9 , Titus 1:2 , 1 Corinthians 2:7.
2. The universe was created from the invisible or imperceivable to us. Hebrews 11:3
3. The Universe has dimensions and its dimensions were created - Again God lies outside the dimensions of height , depth and width. Romans 8:38-39
4. The Universe is expanding. Job 9:8 , Psalms 104:2 , Isaiah 40:22 , Isaiah 42:5 , Isaiah 44:24 , Isaiah 45:12 , Isaiah 48:13 , Isaiah 51:13 , Jeremiah 10:12 , Jeremiah 51:15 , Zechariah 12:1
5. Creation of matter and energy ended in the universe ( against any form of steady state theory) Genesis 2:3-4
6. The Universe is wearing out or subject to the second law of thermodynamics ( the law of decay) Psalms 102:25-27
7. Pleiades and Orion as gravitionally bound star groups Job 38:31
8. The earth is controlled by the heavens ( light - heat - radiations good or bad ..) Job 38:33
9. Earth is spherical Isaiah 40:22 - Job 26:10
10. At any time on the earth there is day and night Luke 17:34-35
11. Earth is suspended in space Job 26:7
12. Formation of continents by tectonic activity described Psalms 104:6-9 , Proverbs 3:19
13. Water cycle described Ecclesiastes 1:7 - Isaiah 55:10 - Job 16:27-28
14. Valleys exist on the bottom of the sea 2 samuel 22:16
15. Vents exist on the bottom of the sea Job 38:16
16. Ocean currents in the sea Psalm 8:8
17. Air has weight Job 28:25
18. Winds blow in circular paths Ecclesiastes 1:6
19. Life of creatures are in the blood Leviticus 17:11
20. The nature of infectious diseases Leviticus 13:46
21. Importance of sanitation to health Numbers 19 - Deuteronomy 23:12- 13 , Leviticus 7-9.
Also the account of creation in Genesis 1 is in perfect harmony with the events hypothesized for the Big Bang , the initial condition of the earth ( 4 major conditions ) , the apperance of water by meteorite collisions , the transformation of the atmosphere from opaque to translucent as for light to shine on earth , the formation of continents by plate tectonics , the creation of plants and their natural speciation , the transformation of the atmosphere from translucent to transparent as for the heavenly bodies to show , the creation of small sea creatures , birds , sea and land mammals and finally man. This agrees with all the intitial conditions following the Big Bang and the order of the appearance of life ( the fossils).
The Order of Creation According to the Bible
1. Creation of the entire physical universe (matter,1 energy,2 space3 and time4) from the invisible (16 x 109 years ago).5 This creation event includes an expanding universe,6 which continues to expand at this time.6
2. Preparation of planet earth for the creation of life. The Bible describes the Earth's initial conditions following its creation when the Sun is already shining. The Bible also says that the Earth is controlled by the heavens and not the other way around (geocentrism is refuted).7 The original Earth is described as being without any oceans or water at all (4.5 x 109 years ago).8 Science tells us that the Earth's water probably came from cometary collisions that were common during the early history of the Solar System.9 The main biblical creation account (Genesis 1) begins after the formation of the Earth's oceans with a description of the Earth as a water-covered planet covered by dense clouds (4.0 x 109 years ago).10
3. The dense atmosphere is partially cleared so that light can strike the surface of the earth. (3.9 x 109 years ago).
4. Formation of a stable water cycle (3.9 x 109 years ago).11
5. Formation of continents, including an accurate description of the tectonic activity that produced the continents (2.7 x 109 years ago)12
6. Creation of plants on the land and their subsequent "production by the land," possibly including some naturalistic processes (0.9 x 109 years ago).13
7. Transformation of the atmosphere from translucent transparent as the Sun, Moon, and stars show through the atmosphere. (0.9-0.6 x 109 years ago)
8. Creation of swarms of small sea animals and their subsequent "great increase" or "teeming by the water" (consistent with the Cambrian explosion) possibly involving some naturalistic processes. (0.5-0.3 x 109 years ago)14
9. Creation of birds (140-60 x 106 years ago)15
10. Creation of sea mammals (60-50 x 106 years ago)16
11. Creation of land mammals that interact with humans (30-15 x 106 years ago)17
a. creeping land mammals (e.g., rodents)
b. large quadraped land mammals (e.g., cattle)
c. wild land mammals (e.g., carnivores)
12. Creation of modern humans (100-50 x 103 years ago)18
Scriptural References:
1. In the beginning, God created the heavens and the Earth. (Genesis 1:1)
This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made earth and heaven. (Genesis 2:4)
Thus says God the LORD, Who created the heavens and stretched them out... (Isaiah 42:5)
"It is I who made the earth, and created man upon it. I stretched out the heavens with My hands, And I ordained all their host. (Isaiah 45:12)
For thus says the LORD, who created the heavens (He is the God who formed the earth and made it... (Isaiah 45: 1 8 )
For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible... (Colossians 1:16)
"Worthy art Thou, our Lord and our God, to receive glory and honor and power; for Thou didst create all things, and because of Thy will they existed, and were created." (Revelation 4:11)
2. And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light. (Genesis 1:3)
3. For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Romans 8:38-39)
He wraps himself in light as with a garment; he stretches out the heavens like a tent (Psalms 104:2)
He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in. (Isaiah 40:22)
4. God was acting before the beginning of our timeline and created our timeline:
...This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time, (2 Timothy 1:9)
a faith and knowledge resting on the hope of eternal life, which God, who does not lie, promised before the beginning of time, (Titus 1:2)
No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. (1 Corinthians 2:7)
To the only God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen. (Jude 1:25)
5. The universe was formed at God's command, so that what was seen was not made out of what was visible. (Hebrews 11:3)
6. Who alone stretches out the heavens, And tramples down the waves of the sea; (Job 9:8 )
Covering Thyself with light as with a cloak, Stretching out heaven like a tent curtain. (Psalms 104:2)
It is He who sits above the vault of the earth, And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers, Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in. (Isaiah 40:22)
Thus says God the Lord, Who created the heavens and stretched them out, Who spread out the earth and its offspring, Who gives breath to the people on it, And spirit to those who walk in it, (Isaiah 42:5)
Thus says the Lord, your Redeemer, and the one who formed you from the womb, "I, the Lord, am the maker of all things, Stretching out the heavens by Myself, And spreading out the earth all alone" (Isaiah 44:24)
"It is I who made the earth, and created man upon it. I stretched out the heavens with My hands, And I ordained all their host." (Isaiah 45:12)
"Surely My hand founded the earth, And My right hand spread out the heavens; When I call to them, they stand together." (Isaiah 48:13)
That you have forgotten the Lord your Maker, Who stretched out the heavens, And laid the foundations of the earth; That you fear continually all day long because of the fury of the oppressor, As he makes ready to destroy? But where is the fury of the oppressor? (Isaiah 51:13)
It is He who made the earth by His power, Who established the world by His wisdom; And by His understanding He has stretched out the heavens. (Jeremiah 10:12)
It is He who made the earth by His power, Who established the world by His wisdom, And by His understanding He stretched out the heavens. (Jeremiah 51:15)
The burden of the word of the Lord concerning Israel. Thus declares the Lord who stretches out the heavens, lays the foundation of the earth, and forms the spirit of man within him, (Zechariah 12:1)
7. "Do you know the ordinances of the heavens, or fix their rule over the earth?" (Job 38:33)
8. When there were no oceans, I was given birth, when there were no springs abounding with water; (Proverbs 8:24)
9. Chyba, C. and C. Sagan. 1992. Endogenous production, exogenous delivery and impact-shock synthesis of organic molecules: an inventory for the origins of life. Nature 355: 125-132.
10. And the earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep; and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters. (Genesis 1:2)
"Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth? Tell Me, if you have understanding... Or who enclosed the sea with doors, When, bursting forth, it went out from the womb; when I made a cloud its garment, and thick darkness its swaddling band" (Job 38:4-9)
11. Then God said, "Let there be an expanse in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters." And God made the expanse, and separated the waters which were below the expanse from the waters which were above the expanse; and it was so. (Genesis 1:6-7)
12. Then God said, "Let the waters below the heavens be gathered into one place, and let the dry land appear"; and it was so. And God called the dry land earth, and the gathering of the waters He called seas; and God saw that it was good. (Genesis 1:9-10)
Thou didst cover it with the deep as with a garment; The waters were standing above the mountains... The mountains rose; the valleys sank down To the place which Thou didst establish for them. Thou didst set a boundary that they may not pass over; That they may not return to cover the earth. (Psalms 104:6-9)
The LORD by wisdom founded the Earth; By understanding He established the heavens. By His knowledge the deeps were broken up... (Proverbs 3:19)
13. Then God said, "Let the earth sprout vegetation, plants yielding seed, and fruit trees bearing fruit after their kind, with seed in them, on the earth"; and it was so. And the earth brought forth vegetation, plants yielding seed after their kind, and trees bearing fruit, with seed in them, after their kind; and God saw that it was good. (Genesis 1:11-12)
14. Then God said, "Let the waters teem with swarms of living creatures..." (Genesis 1:20a)
15. ... and let birds fly above the earth in the open expanse of the heavens." (Genesis 1:20b)
Modern birds created by 55 x 106 years ago:
Feduccia, A. Explosive evolution in tertiary birds and mammals. Science 267: 637-638, 1995.)
16. And God created the great sea monsters, and every living creature that moves, with which the waters swarmed after their kind, and every winged bird after its kind; and God saw that it was good. (Genesis 1:21)
Appearance of modern whales 50 x 106 years ago:
Gingerich, PD., Raza, SM., Arif, M, Anwar, M, and Ahou, X. Nature 368: 844-847, 1994.
17. Then God said, "Let the earth bring forth living creatures after their kind: cattle and creeping things and beasts of the earth after their kind"; and it was so. And God made the beasts of the earth after their kind, and the cattle after their kind, and everything that creeps on the ground after its kind; and God saw that it was good. (Genesis 1:24-25)
18. Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth." And God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. (Genesis 1:26-27)
19. Thus says the LORD, Who gives the sun for light by day, And the fixed order of the moon and the stars for light by night, Who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar; The LORD of hosts is His name: "If this fixed order departs From before Me," declares the LORD, "Then the offspring of Israel also shall cease From being a nation before Me forever." (Jeremiah 31:35-36)
So all the previous detailed analysis of what I perceive as fulfillment of the 3 criteria forming the foundation of the Bible's excellency in sceintific facts. I removed from the long list anything I can see as common , obvious or simply poetical rather than scientific.
Now the Quran has no right to speak about the Big Bang , the Spherecity of the earth , the helicentricity or else. All has been said before , thousands of years before their prophet Muhammed was born , and after those passges have been read endlessly in every church and in every synagogue in Egypt , Jordan , Palestine , Babylonia , Persia , even in Mecca and Yathrib ( original name of this Jewish dominated city that was the beginning of Muhammed's political rise and might , which was then renamed Al Medina Al Menawara).
Despite this apparent copyright infringement , the quotations and the deductions drawn from the quranic verses seem to contradict one or all of the three foundational rules laid down previously. It becomes rather a joke to draw any scienthific facts from these things , they only appear to have any scientific weight to the wishful religious person or the one who wants to believe its truth. There is too much interpretation that goes on in order to make a rather jahili ( pre-islamic) poems in Quran sound like a major microscopic embryological breakthrough. To talk about nufta , mudgha .... and deduce from these that Quran was describing a microscopical analysis of the embryo sounds very unscientific , not to talk about the embryological errors found there like the idea of an embryo being a clot of blood and the absence of the egg in the process of fertilization ( only the sperm)- Anyone before modern science would have said the same thing , it is only the sperm or the male that brings forth kids , so Quran agrees with common wisdom whether right or wrong - no miracle.Not to talk about those heavenly bodies that can float and swim in space , have you ever watched the moon follow you when you are driving your car ? It looks as if it is following you or poetically speaking ( since Quran is a poetical book) it floats in the space , is this any scientific breakthrough or mere observational poetical common wisdom ? How about this story about the moon being "Munir" or giving light , it doesn't take much to feel the heat of the sun and know that it burns resembling a torch , and realize that the moon doesn't do that , but it only gives light without heat. Does it take a revelation to resemble the one with a torch producing heat and light , and the other simply a less intense light ?? Where is the scientific claim here ? It is mere observation and common sense. How about this claim about the big bang which involved heaven and earth , at the time of the big bang there was nothing but an explosion , then matter later matter formed. How could God separate the heavens from the earth at the bif bang when the earth and the heavenly bodies are not even there ? And even if you take it as a proof of the expansion of the universe , it is probably taken from the numerous verses of the Bible , remember the copyright or who got it first. What about this gradual transition between day and night , and vice versa , does it take a genius to notice that ? does it take a revelation from God to see the gradual transition ? It only takes a person to whom God gave sight , not a revelation , and how dare you deduce from something so subtle and obvious the claim that Quran reveals the rotation of the earth around its axis. This is like the guy who saw a revelation in a book that describes the greenness of the grass and deduced that Photosynthesis has been declared in this book. Anybook can be inspired then if it mentions the obvious , when this obvious is caused by major scientific discoveries.
So please dear friends , before considering which book is inspired , consider the problem of humanity which is sin , hurt and death , and examine who can deliver you out of this horrible trap , and you will only find one Jesus Christ. It is simple , but we need to realize what our real problem is.
So Dear Moslems that I love from all my heart and feel your pains , Mohammed did not come with a message of freedom from sin or death or a guarantee of peace neither did he reveal that God cares and loves you personally , but God came in a human form to seek the lost and deliver us from our mistakes and misery , don't you want to be free from mistakes that harm you and others ? Pray to Allah and tell Hm you are seeking the Truth that sets the captive free , and be open to whatever He communicates to you. I am confident you will run into the arms of your heavenly Father and His Son Jesus Christ who came to loose all of men free from their misery and unhappiness if only we join our will to His , and live in true submission ( Islam) not out of fear but in true knowledge that we are safe in His arms because He is Our Father , who longs for us , and now that we realize His Love , we alos long to Him willingly through the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Power of the Spirit of God , who is now speaking to your heart and convicting of your sins. God doesn't want to punish you or weigh your deeds , He wants to deliver you and work along with you that we may be Holy , acceptable and without blemish on Judgment Day.
Amen
For more information about the God of the Bible:
www.reasons.org
( Thanks for their help in gathering the above facts)