Christian/Muslim ThreadsLucifers Pride!I have to say that it has taken you a while (7 days) to reply to my post, perhaps you are busy? If you read my previous post you will see that I have explained to you that Jesus was both God and man. I explained to you about the fig tree and about the end of days, read it again. Jesus knew the fig tree was, an absolutely hopeless, fruitless fig tree that would never hold fruit again, that is why he commanded it to wither. Jesus as a man was growing in knowlegde, Luke 2:52 that says "Jesus kept increasing in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and men." MuhammedAli the logic that Jesus could not be God because He did not know all things works both ways. If we could find a scripture where Jesus does know all things, then that would prove that He was God, wouldn't it? He said to him the third time, "Simon, son of John, do you love Me?" Peter was grieved because He said to him the third time, "Do you love Me?" And he said to Him, "Lord, You know all things; You know that I love You." Jesus said to him, "Tend My sheep" (John 21:17 - NASB). This is not a biblical contradiction this shows us Jesus as both God and man. It is not a denial of Him being God, but a confirmation of Him being man as well as God. Col. 2:9 says, "For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form." MuhammedAli Wrote Jesus was ignorant of the season? maybe it was done on purpose? Jesus knew there were no figs on the tree even at a great distance away, and indeed everyone of the disciples knew that the season for figs was still early a little early. So, in essence Jesus was exposing the disciples to the fact that their nation of Israel was not yet ready to produce fruit for the Lord either. But alas, remember, a fig tree produces not one harvest, but two harvests in a growing season. Old Testament teachings regarding Israel as a Fig Tree… Hosea 9:10 I found Israel like grapes in the wilderness; I saw your forefathers as the earliest fruit on the fig tree in its first season. But they came to Baal-peor and devoted themselves to shame, And they became as detestable as that which they loved. Jesus’ parable of Israel -- Luke 13:3-9 [4] Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem? [5] I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. [6] He spake also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none. [7] Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground? [8] And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung it: [9] And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down. The fig tree is Israel which will be judged for a lack of repentance. They have the pretension of life, but not the substance of life. There was a reason why Jesus did what he did. MuhammedAli Wrote First of all the above shows me your lack of knowledge concerning the Trinity. God the father is always all knowing, God the father doesnt forget nor is he forgotten. Jesus or God the father both never commited sin, infact Jesus was born free from original sin! God cannot be evil. So please before you start speaking about the trinity, you have to understant the character of God. You must remember God was incarnate into flesh, made man, his divinity didn't smother his humanity. "...they shall call his name EMMANUEL, which being interpreted is, GOD WITH US."Matthew 1:23 "If ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins." John 8:24 But you being a Muslim, I understand why you think God can be evil etc... MuhammedAli Wrote The Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world. 1 John 4:14 "I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour." Isaiah 43:11 To the only wise God our Saviour... Jude 1:12 God our Saviour. Titus 2:10 we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour. I Timothy 4:10 God my Saviour. Luke 1:47 Jesus is God, the Son our saviour. You keep asking the question "how can Jesus be God's begotten Son? Well lets have a look at the Quran, shall we. In the Qur'an we find the following two statements: 39:4 Had Allah wished to take to Himself a son, He could have chosen whom He pleased out of those whom He doth create: but Glory be to Him! (He is above such things.) He is Allah, the One, the Irresistible. (Yusuf Ali) If Allah had willed to choose a son, He could have chosen what He would of that which He hath created. Be He Glorified! He is Allah, the One, the Absolute. (Pickthall) Sura 39:4 clearly states that God could have taken Himself a son from among his creation, i.e. without the necessity of a consort to father such a son. According to Surah 39:4 God could have a Son, but he doesnt. As Christians we simply believe God does have a Son. MuhammedAli Wrote You say the bible is one big contradiction, intresting. I can give you at least 50 contradictions or errors in the Quran. It amazes me when Muslims say things like, the bible is not worth the ink its written on etc... when all they do is try to find prophecies concerning Mohammed within this "false" book, why? Mohammed used to say to the Christian of his day “Go and look at your Bible, your Bible will tell you what I’m saying is true. “ He appeals to the Bible at least twenty five times, the lesser will always appeal to the greater or that which is equal. Today we have the same Bible that Mohammed was pointing to in his day. It has not changed, so why is there such a conflict not only in these areas but also in so many other crucial teachings? The Quran Confirms the Bible Has Never Been Corrupted, lets have a look at the Quran and see what it says. It is assumed that "changing words from their context" implies that the previous scriptures have been tampered with. Several responses are in order. First, even if this were the case this would only be referring to the Jews, and even then, not all of the Jews The Quran testifies that there were many from the People of the Book who wouldn’t deal falsely with God’s Word: "Not all of them are alike. Some of the People of the Book are an upright people. They recite the signs (or verses) of God in the night season and they bow down worshipping. They believe in God and the last day. They command what is just, and forbid what is wrong and they hasten in good works, and they are of the righteous. S. 3:113-114 "Of the people of Moses there is a section who guide and do justice in the light of truth ... After them succeeded an (evil) generation: They inherited the Book, but they chose (for themselves) the vanities of this world, saying (for excuse): ‘(Everything) will be forgiven us.’ (Even so), if similar vanities came their way, they would (again) seize them. Was not the covenant of the Book taken from them, that they would not ascribe to Allah anything but the truth? AND THEY STUDY WHAT IS IN THE BOOK. But best for the righteous is the home in the Hereafter. Will ye not understand? As to those WHO HOLD FAST BY THE BOOK and establish regular prayer, - never shall We suffer the reward of the righteous to perish." S. 7:159, 169-170 A. The passage says nothing about changing words from the text of Scripture. In fact, when we consult the earliest Muslim views we soon discover that the Jews were accused of changing words by misinterpreting the text. Al-Bukhari reported that Ibn 'Abbas said that the Ayah means they alter and add although none among Allah's creation CAN REMOVE THE WORDS OF ALLAH FROM HIS BOOKS, THEY ALTER AND DISTORT THEIR APPARENT MEANINGS. Wahb bin Munabbih said, "The Tawrah and Injil REMAIN AS ALLAH REVEALED THEM, AND NO LETTER IN THEM WAS REMOVED." Then, As for Allah's books, THEY ARE STILL PRESERVED AND CANNOT BE CHANGED." Ibn Abi Hatim recorded this statement ... (Tafsir Ibn Kathir – Abridged, Volume 2, Parts 3, 4 & 5, Surat Al-Baqarah, Verse 253, to Surat An-Nisa, verse 147, abridged by a group of scholars under the supervision of Shaykh Safiur-Rahman Al-Mubarakpuri [Darussalam Publishers & Distributors, Riyadh, Houston, New York, Lahore; First Edition: March 2000], p. 196; bold and capital emphasis ours) When the Quran or hadeths speak about the Bible or Torah, never do they indicate that it has been changed, rather they state it has been interpretated incorrectly. Those to whom We have given the Book STUDY IT AS IT SHOULD BE STUDIED: They are the ones that believe therein: Those who reject faith therein,- the loss is their own. S. 2:121 Two Jewish leaders came to Muhammad and asked if he believed that the Torah they had in their possession was the truth from God... "Rafi b. Haritha and Sallam b. Mishkam and Malik b. al-Sayf and Rafi b. Huraymila came to him [Muhammad] and said: "Do you not allege that you follow the religion of Abraham and believe in the Torah which we have and testify that it is the truth from God?" He(Mohammed) replied, "Certainly, ..." Here Mohammed agrees that the Torah we have is the true Torah. MuhammedAli Wrote
According to the Quran (Surah 5:116, 5:73-75) the Christians believe in "three Gods" - Father, Mother, and Son. This shows the influence of heretical 'Christian' sects in central Arabia at the time of Muhammad. In contrast, Christianity has always distinctly stated that the Trinity is the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. The teaching of the Quran on the Trinity has undoubtedly led to confusion among many Muslims on what the Bible (and thus Christianity) teaches about the Triune God. Mary: According to the Quran (Surah 19:28, 3:33-36), Mary, the mother of Jesus, was the daughter of Imran or Amram, the father of Moses and Aaron. Mary is also said to be the sister of Moses and Aaron. Clearly Muhammad confused Mary with Miriam. A second interesting point about Mary is the story of the date palm speaking and offering its fruit to her (Surah 19:23). This legend is easily traced to similar legends found in the apocryphal "Protoevangelium of James" the "Pseudo-Matthew" and "the Gospel of the Nativity of Mary" all of which have been dated to the fourth to sixth centuries, and were again believed by the sects found in Arabia. MuhammedAli Wrote finished that one then please make your way to here: http://www.bismikaallahuma.org/Doctrine/trinity.htm and after that all I can say is, get help my friend. Mary is the Mother of God or as some Christans like to say mother of God the flesh. Mary being the Mother of God does not make her divine. Catholics venerate Mary not worship her as Shia Muslims venerate there "Saints". By praying do you mean intercesstion? most pro-catholic sites are actually anti-catholic, so I would be careful of what sites you may choose to study Catholicism. MuhammedAli Wrote
The Jews did just that! The Jews tried to kill Jesus or have him killed(witch they did) because he said or declared he was the Son of God, and did things only attributed to God alone. Jesus never said I am God or worship me (a famous tactic used by Ahmad Dedat). Would you have done if a man came to you and said he wa God? Jesus didnt say he was God he showed he was God to test the faith of his followers etc...There are too many verses in the bible that indicate Jesus is God. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God John 1:1 the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us...John 1:14 I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he. Isaiah 41:4 Jesus said, "Fear not; I am the first and the last:" Revelation 1:17 "[W]ho can forgive sins but God only?" Mark 2:7 Jesus...said..."Son, thy sins be forgiven thee." Mark 2:5 [T]hou, O LORD, art our father, our redeemer.. Isaiah 63:16 [T]the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ...gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity.. Titus 2:13-14 You have to be dumb or blind, to not see that Jesus is God according to biblical Scripture. Perhaps a image will help you understand the Trinty better; MuhammedAli Wrote Jesus said he was comming to the lost house of the sheep of Israel first, then to the World. I have given you Scripture in my previous post to prove this, yet all you can do is ignore and disagree with no real reason. MuhammedAli Well I am done, its not my best, but what can I say, I am busy At least it didnt take me a week right? Peace |
🌈Pride🌈 goeth before Destruction
When 🌈Pride🌈 cometh, then cometh Shame