Christian/Muslim ThreadsThe X-rated Bible ..If you are disgusted by incest, why are you not disgusted with the marrying of a 6 year old? :roll: The Bible doesn't really say when a couple should get married. All it says is Men and Women in Genesis. When a child becomes man and woman is different in every culture. But as for Mary being virgin, well one would assume so with her being unmarried. Yeah? So your point is what? No one really knows how old she was, the Bible doesn't say. And I highly doubt that the God of Creation knowing our bodies the way He does, would allow a young girl to become pregnant, putting Jesus birth itself in danger. Let's go back here; Read and learn from this guy people! First he contradicted his own logic by his own words... So, here he says one thing, then contradicts himself in the same sentence . . he says the talmudic law allowed girls to be married FROM 13 years of age . . but then he goes on to say that she was UNDER 13 when she gave birth! :roll: No, this assumes that Joseph would have had to consummate his marriage with Mary on her birthday, not a day later. He simply admits that it is FROM the 13th YEAR whicn means from any time in that year ON FORWARD so a girl could be married at 14, 15, etc . . And it does not mean that Mary had Jesus BEFORE she turned 13 . .let's say that she conceived Jesus late in her 12 year, she would still have been 13 when she delivered Jesus. . . Do you see the holes in this guy's logic? Then he goes on to say that she was 10 (even though talmudic law, which she was under would not allow her marriage to be consumated before the age of 13) when she had Jesus simply based on something found in a dictionary which he does not site clearly, so we cannot see exactly what the source says . . so my suggestion that you get him to give you the specific cite so you can look it up. The bible does not at all support the consummating of a marriage at the age of 9 anywhere . . and that is what he is trying to imply. But he tripped himself up in his own logic. I have to say that this muslim's answer and attitude in his answers is very telling about his desperate intentions but we should explain to him that in Israel of the first century a girl was of betrothal age at 12-13. It was usual to be betrothed at the age of 12.5 years which fits in with most speculation we can come up with that Mary's age was around 13 when she had Jesus. http://www.udayton.edu/mary/questions/faq/faq02.html Now this doesn't mean that she would immediately get married, sometimes the wedding was actually held off for months, sometimes a year. Even though this was made between the expectant groom and her father he would not allow a child to be married to a man. Since we all know that a girl becomes of age sexually around that time we should also understand that with the maturation of the body the Lord caused a boy or girl at this age to also be able to tell the difference between right and wrong. Thus this is the age (13) that one is a Bar or Bah mitzah and becomes accountable to God for everything they do at this age. Also the angel of the Lord came to Mary first, he didn't just do it to her without her being explained to and her "giving permission" Mary said "So let it be with me as you have said". She was of an accountable age, not what one could say of a 6 or 9 yr old. So it was culturally accurate that a girl was considered of marriagable age after she was 13. What our muslim friend here isn't aware of (or intentionally ignoring) is that Jewish engagement was normally a period of a year. Somehow, our muslims friend's math goes from a 13 year old being of age, then 10 years old and then apparently skipping the engagement and planning on getting married immediately, and then somehow having a baby before she became of age. It's typical muslim math... just a classic ignoarant dishonest effort to make Muhammad's rape of Aisha look better. But to go back to the discussion techniques, Thirdandlong is stooping to the lowest internet rhetorical technique: quoting a dictionary. That should tell something right there to us. I prefer to base religious beliefs on things a little more in-depth than a (probably) 2-paragraph dictionary entry. There are whole books on this subject (as there are on just about everyone and everything mentioned in the Bible) so why didn't he quote one of them? Anyone's guess. Probably because they all say she was older, within the normal age range for betrothal, and his agenda would come crushin' down. His post is also highly condescending. Thirdandlong unfortunately believes I and others live around here are stupid and bases his judgement on the geographical location. Why would ANYONE believe anything this person has to say? His kind of people obviously can't carry on an adult conversation. Thirdandlong's entire agenda here is that to try to justify an act by Muhammad that most of us see as immoral (taking an extremely young bride) by distorting the truth about the age of the Mother of God when she was betrothed to Joseph. Betrothed, not married, and a virgin. There's no comparison between the two, and he is trying to draw one out of thin air. (supported in his mind by a dictionary entry.) Now let's go back to the dictionary issue... OK, Mary was young. But as young as 10? What does the Oxford Dictionary base this info on? This is an example of someone taking one source and attempting to use it as a trump card . . Thirdandlong should simply see that the Oxford Dictionary is not the be all and end all of all discussion about this matter in Christian circles, and should not be taken to be the final authority on the matter. All it means is this is the opinion of the writer of this part of the Oxford Dictionary, nothing more . . An opinion does not a fact make. :roll: I seriously doubt that the Oxford Dictionary of the Bible made such an outlandish claim. Seems to me that our muslim friend here spends a great deal of time attacking that of which they have no knowledge. I am asking you the specific cite in the Oxford Dictionary, page number etc, because many times, we will find out that something has been misrepresented, taken out of context. To go back to the question; It is a trustworthy statement: if any man aspires to the office of overseer, it is a fine work he desires {to do.} An overseer, then, must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, prudent, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, not addicted to wine or pugnacious, but gentle, peaceable, free from the love of money. 1 Timothy 3:1-3 For this reason I left you in Crete, that you would set in order what remains and appoint elders in every city as I directed you, {namely,} if any man is above reproach, the husband of one wife, having children who believe, not accused of dissipation or rebellion. Titus 1:5-6 Wrong again... Having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us and which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. When He had disarmed the rulers and authorities, He made a public display of them, having triumphed over them through Him. Therefore let no one act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day- things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ. Col 2:14-16 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, [even] the law of commandments [contained] in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, [so] making peace; Ephesians 2:15 For the law was given by Moses, [but] grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. John 1:17 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command [them] to keep the law of Moses. And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter. And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men [and] brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as [he did] unto us; and put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they. Acts 5: 5-11 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law [is] the knowledge of sin. But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God [which is] by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:Whom God hath set forth [to be] a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; To declare, , at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. Where [is] boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. Romans 3:19-28 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification. Romans 4:24 & 25 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. Ephesians 2:8 & 9 Rom 6:14 For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace. The law still abides for the whole world... but Jesus has paid the penalty of the sins accured through the law. So it is your friend, who denies Jesus who is still under the letter of the law. Enough Said! |
🌈Pride🌈 goeth before Destruction
When 🌈Pride🌈 cometh, then cometh Shame