ArchivedJesuss Deity... :: To OmegaTo Omega
Exactly! You better believe it. You better believe there is ONLY ONE ALMIGHTY BEING! There is solely ONE Almighty GOD!! And no one can ‘become Almighty’. Note the ‘Amen’ in verse 7. The salutation concerning Christ ends in verse 7. Verse 8 is the words of GOD the Father, hence, saith the Lord [YAHWEH], which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty. Don’t be fooled by the red ink. Verses 8 shouldn’t be red inked at all - it is the Father who is speaking!! Notice how salutations are worded in the NT :-
The salutation takes the same form as the ones shown above. However, John slightly expands on it as compared to those in the epistles; nevertheless, the ‘Amens’ ought to acts as ‘full-stops’ so to speak, to indicate to the reader when one theme has ended and a new theme or thought is beginning. Hence, Verse 4 … Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; … The phrase ‘from him which is (PRESENT), and which was (PAST), and which is to come (FUTURE)’ is solely used in ref. to YAHWEH GOD Almighty, denoting that He is GOD, past, present and future. It is used in Revelation, as a synonym for Almighty GOD. This expression is equivalent to the meaning of GOD’s name, YAHWEH. It is never used in ref. to Christ or any other person/being other than GOD the Father. [Rev 1:8, 4:8, 11:17, 16:5]That should have been an obvious clue that the Son is not being spoke of here in Rev 1:4. Verse 5 … And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, Verse 6 … The salutation concerning the Messiah continues. Then ‘Amen’ Verse 7 … Seeing that we await Christ’s coming and GOD is obviously invisible, the context clearly shows that this verse is a continuation of the salutation about the Messiah. However, John ends it ”Even so, AMEN” Therefore from verse 8, we read the words of Almighty GOD. Sadly, the only reason why many think that Jesus is speaking here is because the trinitarian-biased printers red-inked verse 8. But these are not the words of the Son. These are the words of the Father. One only needs to see how the expressions Almighty/Pantokrator and ‘which is, and which was, and which is to come’ are used elsewhere in the NT to clearly see that it is solely the Father being spoken of here. That’s what proper Bible Study is all about. Allowing Scripture to interpret Scripture.
Thanks! However, any strength to my arguments comes from the strength of allowing Scripture to speak for itself! The scriptures clearly denote 1) That there is solely ONE ALMIGHTY BEING, the Creator of Heaven and Earth, namely YAHWEH, the ONE GOD, the Father. [Isa 44:24, 45:11-12, 42:5, 40:28, Mal 2:10, 1 Cor 8:4, 6] 2) And that there is solely ONE MAN who has been ordained and appointed to be anointed and exalted above all his fellows [Heb 1:9, Psa 45:7]; even to the point that this MAN would be exalted higher than the angels; even to the point, whereby he can be seated at the right hand of the power of the ONE GOD Himself; this MAN has been made ‘Lord of all’ by the ONE GOD. Hence he is Lord and Christ; this MAN is Jesus of Nazareth, the Son of the Father. [Psa 110.1, 45:7, Acts 2:36 10.36, 17:31, Dan 7.13-14 1 Cor 8:6] Therefore, any verses that ‘appear’ to contradict the clear message of these two facts must be interpreted in the light of the majority of scriptures. This is proper Bible study for GOD’s word does not contradict itself. There is ONE GOD, the Father. There is ONE Lord, the man Christ Jesus. Conc. John 21:17 - see above Conc. Micah 5:2 - see above
I have dealt with John 8:58 elsewhere on the Quran and Bible debate forum. See my post in http://www.jesus-christ-forums.com/home/viewtopic ... 28&start=0 posted Wed Feb 18, 2004 12:58 am. Scorpion has promised to answer me concerning my refutation. I’m stilling waiting ... Easy! He didn’t! Adam was of course the first man that ever existed ... Jesus the Messiah is his descendant. [Luke 3:38] To deny that is to both deny the word of GOD and to deny that Jesus is a man at all!! (Note 1 John 4:3, 2 John 7) Jesus was foreordained in the counsel of GOD long before the foundation of the world but he did not existed until these last days. (1 Pet 1:20) Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, (1 Cor 15:46-47) Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. Jesus is the second Adam destined in the future to be the man who arrives from heaven to raise the dead. “The Last Adam… the second man is the Lord from heaven” (I Cor. 15:45, 47). “From heaven we expect a Savior” (Phil. 3:20). How terribly confusing it would be to say that the second Adam really preceded the first Adam. Jesus is the final Adam. He comes into existence after the first Adam. That last Adam, Jesus, is the heavenly one who descends at the Second Coming from his heavenly session at the right hand of God, where he is currently the Man Messiah Jesus, in contrast to the One God, his Father (I Tim. 2:5).
Huh! What Bible do you read? He, Jesus existed before Adam because he created Adam! Huh! Where did you read that! OK! Let me state the obvious ... It is written that the ONE GOD Himself made Adam from the earth
Jesus said GOD, his Father, created man. [Mark 10:6] Jesus NEVER EVER said that he did it. Neither did any of his apostles teach any such thing. Pleaaassse beware of the leaven of trinitarianism ... it is not of Christ, it is of the rudiments of this world [Col 2:8] Yes, without the word of GOD was not one thing made. [Psa 33:6,9, 148:5] However, it was not until the fulness of time, that GOD’s word was made flesh in the person of Jesus the Messiah. John is in no way contradicting Luke and Matthew who speak of the beginning (genesis) & conception of Jesus the Messiah. They have no idea of a ‘personal literal pre-existence’. Jesus no more pre-existed his creation anymore than Adam pre-existed his!! And as you rightly said ”without It {THE WORD} nothing was made, including the First man Adam.” Well this includes the Last Adam, Jesus the Messiah as well!!
Omega, by you repeatingly saying ”Jesus existing before Adam” or repeatingly saying, ”Jesus made Adam” isn’t going to make it true! Jesus said that the ONE GOD, the Father, the God of the Hebrews, made Adam. In fact no prophet of GOD ever said that someone other than the ONE GOD and Father of Mal 2:10 ever created Adam or anything else! Jesus repeated the same truthful message of the Hebrew Bible ... that is, ONE GOD, the Father, the Lord of Heaven and Earth [Matt 10:25, Luke 10:24, cp. Acts 17:24] is the Creator of man and all things. Luke who has no idea of a pre-existence of Jesus presents Jesus has being a descendant of David, a descendent of Judah, a descendant of Jacob, a descendant of Isaac, a descendant of Abraham, a descendant of Adam, who himself is [the Son] OF GOD. [Luke 3:31-38] To say that Jesus existed before Adam, is to make nonsense of Luke (as well as Matthew’s) words. It’s to make the genealogies of Christ meaningless and pointless. Whose report Omega, are you going to believe? ... Luke’s or Origen’s Matthew’s or Athanasius’ The apostles’ or the so-called Church Fathers’ ? I can supply some URL links that go into more detail about the topics if you so wish. |
🌈Pride🌈 goeth before Destruction
When 🌈Pride🌈 cometh, then cometh Shame