Christian/Muslim ThreadsQurans story of Mary under a date-palm, from 400 AD gospel! :: Re: Qurans story of Mary under a date-palm, from 400 AD gosRe: Quran's story of Mary under a date-palm, from 400 AD gos
Believer wrote:Peace all,
Observe how the Quran has borrowed a story from the Pseudo-Gospel of Matthew, a fabricated apocrypal text written centuries after Jesus's childhood.
What proof do you have it was borrowed?
There is an account of Mary and Joseph seeking refuge under a date-palm that bears fruit for them and brings forth a stream of water. Also, baby Jesus speaks in both accounts, which are practically identicle!!
That's funny, none of the christian historians(orientalists) of the last 200 years have ever made this accusation, and i am SURE you are more qualified. Sadly, the gospels though aren't even this identical, they would be slightly more beleiveable.
[19.23] And the throes (of childbirth) compelled her to betake herself to the trunk of a palm tree. She said: Oh, would that I had died before this, and had been a thing quite forgotten!
[19.24] Then (the child) called out to her from beneath her: Grieve not, surely your Lord has made a stream to flow beneath you;
[19.25] And shake towards you the trunk of the palmtree, it will drop on you fresh ripe dates:
[19.26] So eat and drink and refresh the eye. Then if you see any mortal, say: Surely I have vowed a fast to the Beneficent God, so I shall not speak to any man today.
http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0848.htm
Chapter 20
And it came to pass on the third day of their journey, while they were walking, that the blessed Mary was fatigued by the excessive heat of the sun in the desert; and seeing a palm tree, she said to Joseph: Let me rest a little under the shade of this tree. Joseph therefore made haste, and led her to the palm, and made her come down from her beast. And as the blessed Mary was sitting there, she looked up to the foliage of the palm, and saw it full of fruit, and said to Joseph: I wish it were possible to get some of the fruit of this palm. And Joseph said to her: I wonder that thou sayest this, when thou seest how high the palm tree is; and that thou thinkest of eating of its fruit. I am thinking more of the want of water, because the skins are now empty, and we have none wherewith to refresh ourselves and our cattle. Then the child Jesus, with a joyful countenance, reposing in the bosom of His mother, said to the palm: O tree, bend thy branches, and refresh my mother with thy fruit. And immediately at these words the palm bent its top down to the very feet of the blessed Mary; and they gathered from it fruit, with which they were all refreshed. And after they had gathered all its fruit, it remained bent down, waiting the order to rise from Him who had commanded it to stoop. Then Jesus said to it: Raise thyself, O palm tree, and be strong, and be the companion of my trees, which are in the paradise of my Father; and open from thy roots a vein of water which has been hid in the earth, and let the waters flow, so that we may be satisfied from thee. And it rose up immediately, and at its root there began to come forth a spring of water exceedingly clear and cool and sparkling. And when they saw the spring of water, they rejoiced with great joy, and were satisfied, themselves and all their cattle and their beasts. Wherefore they gave thanks to God.
Chapter 21
And on the day after, when they were setting out thence, and in the hour in which they began their journey, Jesus turned to the palm, and said: This privilege I give thee, O palm tree, that one of thy branches be carried away by my angels, and planted in the paradise of my Father. And this blessing I will confer upon thee, that it shall be said of all who conquer in any contest, You have attained the palm of victory. And while He was thus speaking, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared, and stood upon the palm tree; and taking off one of its branches, flew to heaven with the branch in his hand. And when they saw this, they fell on their faces, and became as it were dead. And Jesus said to them: Why are your hearts possessed with fear? Do you not know that this palm, which I have caused to be transferred to paradise, shall be prepared for all the saints in the place of delights, as it has been prepared for us in this place of the wilderness? And they were filled with joy; and being strengthened, they all rose up.
This was a letter to Jerome who lived in the 5th century AD! This gospel was written around 400 AD! Thisis 400 years after Christ's childhood and here it is in the Quran! The Quran doesm't even get the story right! Jesus was born in a cave according to the Pseudo-Matthew gospel. Thisis more solid evidcence the Quran was a fabricated work.
The Quran doesn't get the story right? That's all because you believe that the story is borrowed. Hardly a proof. And since the Quran has a different story, doesn't that logically mean that it didnt borrow the story. Why would have the "fabricators" who wrote the Quran not copied the whole story. And you can't say its because they were trying to get Christians to become Muslim because Islam and the Quran explicitly denies the Cruci-FICTION of which Christianity is based. That would have driven off plenty of the early christians alone don't you think. So what utility would a "fabricator" have had in adding a little tiny story like that?
Now if the Gospels were the accused corrupted scriptures that Muslims claim, then why are they so silent on Jesus's early life? The authors of the Gospels wanted to give an accurate account of Jesus's life, and alot wasn't known about His childhood. He just grew up like any other carpenter's boy. If the Gospels were corrupted works by men, then alot of tales and stories would have been added about Jesus's early life. Does this make sense?
This is what is puzzling about the Bible...the authors of the first 4 books, give remarkably detailed accounts of what happened when Jesus was born (some of the discrepancies between them follow and what causes not only muslims, but many christian scholars, more eminent than any armchair academic on this forum to doubt the authenticity of the gospels.) the flight to egypt, coming back etc, and then the next time we hear about Jesus he is 30 years old. The truth is that the Gospels were not inspired words of God. Just read the first 5 verses of Luke.
Over the course of time early Christians were very curious as to what the Lord Jesus's early life was like. This curiosity drew some people to contrive myths and legends. Heretical Christians readily excepted these myths.
The entire gospels, having been written after the heretical blasphemous writings of Paul, are very curious indeed. And its funny that modern day Christians would dare call anyone heretical without having original copies of anything Jesus said. But oooooooooo, the Council of Nicea kind of made sure we would neve be able to know. (destroying all non-Greek copies of the religious/historical writings.
These renegade Christians made their homes in the East, away from the True Church of the West. Certainly these heretical Christians and their elaborate myths existed in 7th century Mecca. Waraqha was one of these heretical Christians who believd in these myths, It is no wonder why Muhammed's revelations stopped for a time after his death! No more Christian apocryphal myths!
LIke i said, how do you get to define what is heretical and isnt? But this sortof mentality does make one sleep easier at night.
So either you can believe in the Gospels, which were honest in finding the truth of Jesus's life, or you can keep the Quran which contains fabricated myths, not an honest attempt to find the truth of Jesus's life. The apocryphal books with tales seemingly borrowed by the Quran were written centuries after Jesus's childhood.
Most of what we know about Jesus, pbuh, was written long after His Childhood and Ascension, by people with political axes to grind. And what a choice you have left us, this is called a false argument and no sentient being will ever believe it.
You should believe every word from Gospels written only a few decades after Jesus's life than to even consider believing things about Jesus written centuries after His life!
But you can't believe every word written from the gospels when they don't all agree. Neither are the authors truly known. Now i realize that KJV Bibles like to offer the OPINION of who wrote it, but modern bibiblical scholars of most Stuby bibles (RSV, ISRV) admit that the authorship is purely speculative.
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