You are not the body

[Jivatma]

You are not the body. At one time you had a baby body, then you had a child body, then you had a youth body, now you have an adult body or perhaps an old body. Your body has changed yet you remain the same. Therefore you are different from the body. By dint of consciousness, we can understand the nature of the self to be transcendental in relation to the body. Whereas the body is always changing and will eventually perish, the soul is unchanging and eternal.


Does Christianity agree with the above? If not, why?

[Aineo]

The soul is the personality of the body and like the body changes over time. The spirit, which animates the body and the soul is what does not change.

[Jivatma]

The soul is the personality of the body and like the body changes over time. The spirit, which animates the body and the soul is what does not change.

Okay... this is just semantics. Basically, what I call "soul", you call "spirit". For future reference, I will refer to it as the self.

So, according to Christianity, what is the origin of the self?

[Aineo]

The origin of self is your life experiences and thoughts, which cease upon death. Now, since you are asking for a Christian explanation of soul to change your criteria because you do not like the response demonstrates your question was not a serious question.

Ecclesiastes 12:6-8
6 Remember Him before the silver cord is broken and the golden bowl is crushed, the pitcher by the well is shattered and the wheel at the cistern is crushed; 7 then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it. 8 "Vanity of vanities," says the Preacher, "all is vanity!" NAS

Psalms 146:3-4
3 Do not trust in princes,
In mortal man, in whom there is no salvation.
4 His spirit departs, he returns to the earth;
In that very day his thoughts perish.
NAS

[Jivatma]

The origin of self is your life experiences and thoughts, which cease upon death. Now, since you are asking for a Christian explanation of soul to change your criteria because you do not like the response demonstrates your question was not a serious question.

My criteria has not changed. Only the term in which I use to convey that "criteria" has changed. This is necessary so that we won't confuse each other. Your saying that my question is thus not serious is quite ignorant.

I don't want to know about the Christian "soul", since it has already been determined that the Christian "soul" is NOT what I am talking about.

I am talking about the self (or spirit) that remains despite the changing material body. I made that clear in my initial post. Now please address the equivilent concept in Christianity, or make another thread about whatever topic it is you want to discuss.

[Aineo]

I suggest you reread my response. What exists after physical death is the spirit, which in Christianity is not the soul, which is our life experiences and accumulated knowledge.

Genesis 2:7

7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
KJV

Body + spirit from God = living soul.

[Jivatma]

Body + spirit from God = living soul.

Ok. Then what part is the immortal part? Obviously the material body is not immortal. Then it must be the spirit, right? So then, we are the spirit, and because we are currently in a material body, therefore we are called "soul"? Does that sound right?

In my understanding, based on Vedic knowledge, it is similar to this, except that we say the Lord has 3 categories of His energy: His internal potency, His external potency, and His marginal potency. The internal potency is the Lord's Personal energy. It is characterized by being 'sat-cit-ananda'. 'Sat' mean eternal existence, 'cit' means full of knowledge, and 'ananda' means full of bliss. The external potency is what this material universe is made of. It is sometimes manifest and sometimes not. It's forms are illusory in so much that they are fleeting. Then the marginal potency is the Lord's part and parcel "souls" (or spirits) who are prone to fall into the external energy.

So we say internal potency (i.e. the spirit-soul) + external potency = marginal potency

[Aineo]

The spirit returns to God who gave it, therefore every spirit is immortal from the time God gives it.

God is and always has been spirit, so I am not sure what you are trying to say. The material as well as the spiritual world were created by God in the beginning.

[Jivatma]

The spirit returns to God who gave it, therefore every spirit is immortal from the time God gives it.

God is and always has been spirit, so I am not sure what you are trying to say. The material as well as the spiritual world were created by God in the beginning.

Spirit is created? I thought only matter is created and that spirit is the opposite.

Also, if the spirit returns to God, and the soul is defined as a combination between the spirit and the body, then who goes to hell for eternity? Obviously the soul doesn't go to hell for eternity, because the spirit returns to God. And a body without a spirit is simply a lump of lifeless matter. So who exactly goes to hell for eternity?

[Aineo]

For a person who insists that threads stay on topic why try to take this thread off topic? You have a thread going on hell, therefore I am not going to address the same topic on multiple threads you have going.

Since a spirit is not a material entity by your own definition of God found on this thread http://www.jesus-christ-forums.com/home/viewtopic ... ght=#69819 I find your post odd to say the least. God who is spirit is not a material entity and the spirits of men are not material entities. Spirits are energy not matter.

[Jivatma]

For a person who insists that threads stay on topic why try to take this thread off topic? You have a thread going on hell, therefore I am not going to address the same topic on multiple threads you have going.

The topics just happen to be interrelated. If you can explain what is the entity that goes to hell (soul, spirit, pudding pop) then we can clarify the problems in this thread.

Since a spirit is not a material entity by your own definition of God found on this thread http://www.jesus-christ-forums.com/home/viewtopic ... ght=#69819 I find your post odd to say the least. God who is spirit is not a material entity and the spirits of men are not material entities. Spirits are energy not matter.

I am not saying or implying that spirits are material entities. A rock is a material entity also, but a rock is not living. So what is that animation principle? We say, the spirit. So therefore it is the spirit that is the actual living entity. The body is otherwise a valueless lump of matter. Bodily importance is only there when the living entity, the spirit, is there. So what does God or His subordinate individual spirits not being material have to do with my post?

[Aineo]

Without a body that is animated by the spirit you don't exist as a human being. So although you are not your body without your body you are not you since in order to aquire knowledge and experiences that define who you are you need both body and spirit.