Postby HOGCALLER » Wed Jul 13, 2005 05:02 am
burwelm,
Your quotation above is not the only way those verses can be rendered. In fact several Bibles render them quite differently. For example 1Timothy 2:1-7: “I therefore exhort, first of all, that supplications, prayers, intercessions, offerings of thanks, be made concerning all sorts of men, 2 concerning kings and all those who are in high station; in order that we may go on leading a calm and quiet life with full godly devotion and seriousness. 3 This is fine and acceptable in the sight of our Savior, God, 4 whose will is that all sorts of men should be saved and come to an accurate knowledge of truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all sorts of people—[this is] what is to be witnessed to at its own particular times. 7 For the purpose of this witness I was appointed a preacher and an apostle—I am telling the truth, I am not lying—a teacher of nations in the matter of faith and truth.” As you can see there clearly are other ways to understand those verses. I have not quoted the above as a basis for a debate about Bibles or words; rather it is quoted only to help open your mind to the possibility of another reasonable understanding.
It might also be helpful to some to know that the idea of “universal salvation” came about primarily as a response or backlash to another equally wrong teaching—“eternal torment.” To proponents of “universal salvation” or Universalists it seemed incredible that God would torture his creatures in a burning hell without end and without any results, therefore they conjectured that all hellish torment was remedial and would end as soon as it had accomplished its purpose and at some future point “all” would “choose” salvation. (I do not see much of a “choice” given those options, do you?). One thing is for certain those two wrongs did not make a right but we do now understand that they were at least well meaning even though wrong. Also given the commonly accepted alternatives it is easy to understand why some would prefer the rendering and understanding that you present.
From Genesis to Revelation the Bible makes it clear that some will not gain salvation. In passing judgment on Adam God said: “For dust you are and to dust you will return.” (Genesis 3:19) That sentence said you are going back to what you were before. What was Adam before he “became a living soul”? He was nonexistent! Therefore God’s words mean annihilation, not salvation, for Adam. Also remember Adam did not die due to inherited Adamic sin/death that means he died the other death, “second death”. Regarding the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah we are told at Jude 7 that it is “placed before us as a warning example by undergoing” judicial everlasting punishment. At Revelation 21:8 we read that all the wicked will have their portion “in the lake that burns with fire and sulphur. This means the second death.” Nothing is said about a redemption or a resurrection from this other or second death.
Yes, Jesus Christ will “destroy him who had the empire of death, that is to say, the devil” (Hebrews 2:14). The wicked are as “vessels of wrath made fit for destruction” (Romans 9:22). Their name “shall rot” (Proverbs 10:7). The “goats” are told to depart “into everlasting cutting-off” (Matthew 25:46). According to the dictionary, to destroy means to bring to an end, to put out of existence, and destruction means extinction, extirpation, annihilation. Those words and the ideas they convey are repeated over and over through out the Bible and cannot be contradicted by the verses you quoted.
Unable to reconcile a God of love with eternal punishment in the form of torment, Universalists made the punishment of limited duration. Instead they should have eliminated the erroneous belief regarding torment, but allowed the duration of the punishment to be eternal. Annihilation, destruction, extirpation, extinction are eternal punishment, but they do not involve conscious eternal suffering and are therefore compatible with a God of love.
Another reason that Universalists made their mistake is their holding to the erroneous teaching of the immortality of all souls. Believing that all intelligent creatures, once coming into existence, must continue to live forever, they concluded that, since it is unthinkable that God would uselessly torment them forever, eventually all such will be reconciled to God.
But the Bible nowhere says that immortality is an inherent quality of all intelligent souls. On the contrary it tells us that “the soul that sins shall die” (Ezekiel 18:4), that no man “can deliver his soul from the power of Sheol” (Psalm 89:48), viz. gravedom or the common condition of those brought down by Adamic or first death, and that Christ “poured out his soul to death” (Isaiah 53:12). And also that Christians are now seeking incorruptibleness and in the resurrection will put on or be clothed with immortality (Romans 2:7; 1Corinthians 15:53-54).
“The wages sin pays is death, but the gift God gives is everlasting life by Christ Jesus our Lord.” (Romans 6:23) If all were to receive life regardless, it would not be a gift—it would be a due or a right to be worked at until earned. A gift implies a choice. God’s Word shows the alternatives for his creatures to be, not life in happiness or life in torment, but life or death. The fact is that all God’s intelligent creatures have but that one choice put before them. It is the exact same choice that was put before Adam—obey and live forever or not obey and not live forever “for in the day you eat from it you will positively die.” (Genesis 2:17) The exact same choice was also put before Israel: “I have put life and death before you.” (Deuteronomy 30:19) Make no mistake that is the only choice before us all. If man does not appreciate life sufficiently to live it in harmony with God’s righteous laws, then he loses it. Such is wise, just and loving on God’s part. Just as Adam and Eve did not appreciate life and so were returned to the dust, likewise all intelligent creatures who do not appreciate life will have extinction as their destiny.
With all the wicked to be destroyed in God’s due time, it must follow that then all that live will be submitting themselves to God and Christ Jesus so that God will be all things to all that live. And then, too, every knee will bend and every tongue will confess that Christ is Lord, for the knees and the tongues of the wicked will have been destroyed. Similarly time and again when the term “all” is used in the Greek Scriptures, “all kinds” or, per Thayer’s, “some of all types” is meant, not literally “all” or all inclusive and with no exception. A case in point is Acts 2:17. According to most translations God there states: “I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh.” Now we know that at Pentecost God’s spirit was not poured out literally upon all flesh, but only on a comparative few. But God did pour it out on ‘sons and daughters, young men and old men, on men slaves and women slaves.’ Therefore a better rendering would read: “I shall pour some of my spirit out upon every kind of flesh.” The same is true regarding Romans 5:18 and 1Timothy 2:3, 4.
Can there be harm to the teaching that eventually all intelligent creatures that ever lived will be reconciled to God? Yes, because first of all it robs God of his glory as one worthy to be worshiped by free moral agents. Further, it makes void the very issue for which God has permitted mankind to remain and in which he takes the greatest delight, namely, Can intelligent creatures keep integrity in spite of all that Satan can do to turn them aside through temptations or persecution? Why should God have directed Satan’s attention to Job’s integrity-keeping course if all mankind and even Satan himself eventually will become reconciled to God and gain everlasting life?
Today universal salvation is a snare of the Devil to throw Christians off guard by promising them salvation regardless of what they do or do not do. By subscribing to universal salvation some of these ones, perhaps unconsciously, make room for themselves in spite of their willful practice of gross sin. Although many well-meaning professed Christians from the second to the twenty-first century have taught universal salvation, the Bible does not teach it. God is love, but he is also just. In love he offers everlasting life to those who meet his conditions, and in justice he has decreed that those who spurn his gift merit everlasting death.
Now let me simplify it for you.
Matthew 7:13-14: “Go in through the narrow gate. The gate to destruction is wide, and the road that leads there is easy to follow. A lot of people go through that gate. 14 But the gate to life is very narrow. The road that leads there is so hard to follow that only a few people find it.” Either Jesus was not telling it as it actually is when he stated that there are two roads and two outcomes or you are not telling it as it actually is when you claim that there is only one road and one outcome, which is it?
Either Paul was not telling it as it actually is when he stated at Hebrews 6:4-6: “For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame.” Or you are not telling it as it actually is when you claim that it is possible for those traitorous apostates to again be renewed to repentance, which is it?
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