Paul and the Law

[Endurance]

I will go through Romans 6 verse by verse and examine the content.... Keeping this in mind as we go through it.

1 John 3:4 - Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Paul poses the question should we sin (disobey the law) since we are under grace and then answers the question NO. And asks how can we who are supposed to be dead to sin continue to sin.

3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

He continues to explain why we should not continue in sin by telling us that we have been bapised into Christ death (I'll return to this point) and that if buried with him, just as He was resurrected we should walk in newness of life.

5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: 6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

He says that we have been planted in likeness to his death and that the old man should be crucified that the body of sin might be destroyed. What is sin? Transgressing the law, right. So we are to walk in newness of life so that disobedience (the old man) might be destroyed.

7 For he that is dead is freed from sin. 8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: 9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.

He continues to explian that he who is dead is freed from sin. And says tht if we be dead with Christ, we shall live with him b/c death hath no more dominion over Him who dieth no more. Remember, who the Son sets free is free indeed. And the truth shall set you free (from sin).

10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. 11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. 12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

Now this death of Christ that we share in has been revealed. Christ died once to sin. And he says likewise we should also be dead to sin but alive to God. And Paul encourages us not to let sin (transgressing the law) reign in our bodies.

13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

He continues that we should not yield our bodies as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin. But to walk in "newness of life" as though alive from the dead. And we know that sin is death. Also, he states that those who are not under the law, sin has no dominion over.

15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. 16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Another question is asked, shall we sin, since we are not under the law so grace may abound. And he answers, if I may be blunt, if you sow sin you reap death. Sin is the transgressing of the law. So if we sow disobedience to the law, we will reap death. Or we can sow obedience which brings forth righteousness.

17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. 18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

Then he says Thank God that you were (past tense) servants of sin, but have obeyed from the heart. And he continues, being made free from sin, we became the servants of righteousness. Keep in mind, he just said that if you sow obedience you'll reap righteousness. So being made free from sin is not being free from judgement according to the law. But by no longer walking in sin and no longer obeying it's lust.

19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness. 20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.

He goes on to convey that we've served the uncleanness of sin which leads to more iniquity. And say now, be servants of righteousness. And adds when we served sin, we were free from righteousness. What does this mean? Is he not saying that, while we were living in see, we were free of righteousness (or had no righteousness), but now we should serve righteousness and be free from sin (having no disobedience for sin is the trangressing from the law).

21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death. 22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. 23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Many love to qoute "for the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ." But what is said before that? He said now being made free from sin (free from transgressing the law), to become servants of God, bearing fruit unto holiness and everlasting life.

IN conclusion, faith is an action word. We see time and time again the apostle Paul telling us to obey God and to depart from sin. That we should no longer obey sin, but rather God. Knowing that sin is disobedience to the law, we acknowledge that James word is true and not contrary to Paul's doctrine at all; that faith without works is dead.

If I tell a person their house is on fire and they believe me, but does not vacate their house, can that faith save him?

Love Always,

[Aineo]

Romans 6:12-14
12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body that you should obey its lusts, 13 and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law, but under grace. NAS

I fail to see what you are getting at with your dissertation on Romans 6.

13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

He continues that we should not yield our bodies as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin. But to walk in "newness of life" as though alive from the dead. And we know that sin is death. Also, he states that those who are not under the law, sin has no dominion over.

Are you saying we should keep the Law to be obedient to Christ or that we are no longer under the Law because of our faith in Christ.

[Endurance]

I'm saying it is our faith that makes us seek to obey God. For faith is manifested by our works/deeds. We are not under the law, but in no way does that mean we don't obey it. For by the works of the law no man is just before God b/c all have sinned. But those who have been born again, establish the law which is to live in harmony with it. Look over these scriptures.

Jeremiah 31:33 - But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Ezekiel 36:26 - A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

These prophecies are fulfilled in the Holy Spirit. Notice in Ezek He says that they will keep His commandments and statutes.

Matthew 5:17 - Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Romans 8:4 - That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Christ says He comes to fulfill and not destroy the law and the prophets. Also, look at Romans, which says the righteousness of the law is fulfilled is us. It is truely of grace and not works. The Spirit is what works the righteousness in us and it's not of our own works, but by the grace of God.

2 Peter 1:19 - We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

Man cannot keep the righteousness of the law, but still we seek. We walk in the ways of God as best we can until the day star, which is Christ, arises in our hearts and it is He who fulfills teh law.

Colossians 1:27 - To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

THis is our hope of glory.

I fail to see what you are getting at with your dissertation on Romans 6.

What I'm getting at is, obey God and what He commanded.

Love Always,

[Aineo]

What did God command of us?

[Endurance]

What did God command of us?

I'll answer this with a question of my own. Do you know what is sin? If you know what things are sin, then you know what God commanded. For He commanded us to do the opposite of sin being as though sin is disobeying God.

Romans 7:7 - What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Love Always,

[Alpha]

He said to him, "What is written in the law? What is your reading of it?"
So he answered and said, "'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind,' and 'your neighbor as yourself.' " And He said to him, "You have answered rightly; do this and you will live." ( Luke 10:26-28 )

As for the specifics that apply to this saying, let God judge the conscience, heart/intentions of another. Notice it says to love God with all your mind, soul, etc. It does not say love God only by knowing all truth.

[Aineo]

As usual you refuse to respond to a question. Do you know what a sophist is? You started this thread by taking one chapter from Romans out of its full context. Now since you have placed yourself in the position of teacher why won't your answer one simple question?

[Endurance]

He said to him, "What is written in the law? What is your reading of it?"
So he answered and said, "'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind,' and 'your neighbor as yourself.' " And He said to him, "You have answered rightly; do this and you will live." ( Luke 10:26-28 )

As for the specifics that apply to this saying, let God judge the conscience, heart/intentions of another. Notice it says to love God with all your mind, soul, etc. It does not say love God only by knowing all truth.

I agree with you completely that knowing all truth means nothing (figuratively). One must also have the wisdom to put that knowledge into action.

For if I know there's a bomb set to blow up a building, but I do nothing to save those who would die, what profit did that knowledge have.

As far as the specifics, they have already been defined (or judged) by God that we may heed and act upon.

Deuteronomy 11:1 - Therefore thou shalt love the LORD thy God, and keep his charge, and his statutes, and his judgments, and his commandments, alway.

Deuteronomy 19:9 - If thou shalt keep all these commandments to do them, which I command thee this day, to love the LORD thy God, and to walk ever in his ways; then shalt thou add three cities more for thee, beside these three:

Deuteronomy 30:6 - And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.

Deuteronomy 30:16 - In that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it.

John 14:24 - He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

1 John 2:4 - He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

In all these we see how Love for God is defined, or more specifics of it rather. Before one can truly love his brother, one must love God and self first. By love self, I don't mean gloating (pride) or selfishness. But that which comes from having a clear conscience. That is the prosperous life. For sin brings separation and guilt which can leave us dead spiritually.

Romans 6:23 - For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

He that works sin, get paid death.

1 Corinthians 15:56 - The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

1 John 3:4 - Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Romans 7:7 - What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

The strength of sin is the law because since we've been given or are mindful of the law, we know what is sin and not. Therefore, we are all accountable to God. So no man is justified by the law (or works) because all have broken it. And sin has power over us. He who breaks in one area has broken in all.

Yet God has shined His grace upon us. In that He will send His spirit in us, if we submit to him. And that Spirit of His Son, cleans us from all unrighteousness and sin, therefore, fulfilling the law.

Galatians 4:6 - And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

Romans 13:10 - Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Revelation 12:11 - And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death

1 John 3:8 - He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

He came to destroy the works of the devil and not the law. He comes to fulfill the law.

Colossians 1:27 - To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

Romans 8:4 - That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

He says the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in us and not unaccoutability to it (lawlessness) or to God.

1 John 4:3 - And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

He says that He that does not confess that Christ comes in the flesh is that spirit of antichrist. For Christ (the Holy Spirit) comes in us and fulfills the law. It is not of works (not our own), but of grace (a gift from above). This is that spirit of anti-christ. That Christ does not come in the flesh and overcome. That is why John can say

1 John 3:9 - Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

The seed of God (Christ) remains in him and he cannot sin b/c he is born of God. Christ fulfills the law in us (Rom 8 above). That is why John can say

1 John 4:4 - Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

Hebrews 4:15 - For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

For Christ overcame/comes the world. He knows and can relate to our weaknesses. This is a true testimony, Christ comes in the flesh; He was, IS, and is to come.

Hebrews 4:15 - For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

Hebrews 9:28 - So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

When He comes again for those who look to Him, he comes without sin. Does our salvation not occur here? He who denies Christ is come (present tense) have the spirit of antichrist, according to the scriptures.

1 John 4:3 - And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

Regardless of how hard it gets, keep striving for righteousness, knowing that the Lord will do the work.

2 Timothy 2:4 - No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier.

Love Always,

[Endurance]

As usual you refuse to respond to a question. Do you know what a sophist is? You started this thread by taking one chapter from Romans out of its full context. Now since you have placed yourself in the position of teacher why won't your answer one simple question?

For He commanded us to do the opposite of sin being as though sin is disobeying God.

Romans 7:7 - What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Is the statment in bold not answering your question? You asked what did God command of us and I say He commanded us to do the opposite of sin (or not to sin against Him.) Then I qouted a verse which shows how the Law is what let's us know what sin is. Paul says "I had not known sin but by the law." Which would mean, if it were not for the law, I would not know what sin is."

Does this not answer your "one simple question?"

You say I took it out of context. So instead of accusing me of it, why not show us how I've done it and give us the proper way?

Love Always,

[Aineo]

Actually no that does not answer my one simple question. In spite of your refusal to address the dietary and other laws in other threads they are part of the Law. So is eating pork, lobster, and etc. sinful? If so why and if not why not? Observing the Passover and the other holy celebrations are part of the law, is not observing the Passover a sin?

[Gnostradamus]

Actually no that does not answer my one simple question. In spite of your refusal to address the dietary and other laws in other threads they are part of the Law. So is eating pork, lobster, and etc. sinful? If so why and if not why not? Observing the Passover and the other holy celebrations are part of the law, is not observing the Passover a sin?

I would like to comment if I may. As for the dietary laws, Jesus specifically addressed these laws as one of the laws that were to be changed in the new covenant. He did the same with marriage and divorce. As for other laws which he did not specifically address, one can assume that he intended for them to remain as Moses had taught them.

[Aineo]

However, Endurance does not agree that God changed the laws, which is why I asked the question. Endurance has quoted Matthew 5:17 many times, however he seems to want to ignore that balance of the chapter. Jesus changed (completed) the law by adding motivation as equal to actions; anger equals murder, lust equals adultery, and etc. Jesus also added "love your neighbor as yourself" as second only to "love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, and mind" as superior to the other 9 commandments. Jesus changed the Law by making it impossible to keep.

So my question for Endurance is if the law is our source of the definition of sin are we to live under the law?

[Endurance]

Actually no that does not answer my one simple question. In spite of your refusal to address the dietary and other laws in other threads they are part of the Law. So is eating pork, lobster, and etc. sinful? If so why and if not why not? Observing the Passover and the other holy celebrations are part of the law, is not observing the Passover a sin?

I will go ahead and answer your questions though you completely ignore mine. Is eating pork, lobster, etc sinful?

Leviticus 11:47 - To make a difference between the unclean and the clean, and between the beast that may be eaten and the beast that may not be eaten.

They certainly are unclean animals as God said. I don't eat them anymore b/c God has shown me the error in it. And I would caution you as well, there is wisdom in what God said. Is it sinful? I don't know, but I will definitely pray about it and hopefully God will give me something more to tell you on this.

Observing festivities and such?

Christ is our Passover. As I've said time and time again, some things are foreshadowings of things to come. If one has not celebrated (observed) the Passover, then how can that person claim to be Christ's.

You ask do I celebrate this. The holiday which pointed to those who would believe as covered by the blood of the lamb. Do you not celebrate this? This passover in which the Angerl of Death did not touch the houses of those who were covered by the blood was a foreshadowing of something to come. Christ is our Passover. Any who has truly been covered by the blood of the lamb, is in celebration of it.

1 Corinthians 5:7 - Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us: Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth

Notice he says let us keep the feast with unleavened bread. Christ is our passover, in which the first seven days were the feast of unleavened bread. Christ is that unleavened bread we partake of and it is in Him that we truly celebate any of th feasts described in the Law.

For example, Paul tells us to keep the feast not with the old leaven (malice and wickedness) but with the unleavened bread (sincerity and truth). As to not keep it with those old dead works (eating actual bread which does nothing to make righteous), but with the unleavened bread of Christ (which is able to save).

As you see the law has not been changed. We still keep the feasts, but we do them in spirit which is the manifestation of the letter of the law.

Such as, not to be angry with your brother without a cause. He was not changing the law of thou shalt not kill. But he was pointing to the rememdy that, they who hear may keep the law. Anger is the seed that gives birth to violence which leads to murder in some cases. This is why He says to clean the inside of the cup. If you stop lusting for another woman, you will not commit adultery. If you are not mad with your brother, you will not kill him. And so on.

So as to whether or not keeping the Passover?

I'll say, that if it is not celebrated (in spirit that is), that person is still in their sins and has no part in Christ.

Love Always,

[Endurance]

So my question for Endurance is if the law is our source of the definition of sin are we to live under the law?

I will answer this as well, although you have commented on any point I've made (not the overall message), but then I'd like for you to answer this:

Is sin transgressing from the law?

1 John 3:4 - Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

The more relevant question should be, are we to live under sin?

Paul states that the Law is what informs us of what sin is. Those are not my own words. As far as are we to live under the law, can you clarify your questions, being more specific as to what you are asking?

Love Always,

[Aineo]

Leviticus 11:1-8
11:1 The LORD spoke again to Moses and to Aaron, saying to them, 2 "Speak to the sons of Israel, saying, 'These are the creatures which you may eat from all the animals that are on the earth. 3'Whatever divides a hoof, thus making split hoofs, and chews the cud, among the animals, that you may eat. 4'Nevertheless, you are not to eat of these, among those which chew the cud, or among those which divide the hoof: the camel, for though it chews cud, it does not divide the hoof, it is unclean to you. 5'Likewise, the rock badger, for though it chews cud, it does not divide the hoof, it is unclean to you; 6 the rabbit also, for though it chews cud, it does not divide the hoof, it is unclean to you; 7 and the pig, for though it divides the hoof, thus making a split hoof, it does not chew cud, it is unclean to you. 8'You shall not eat of their flesh nor touch their carcasses; they are unclean to you.
NAS

This is part of the Law. Here is what you posted from 1 John:

1 John 3:4 - Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Is it a sin to eat pork, lobster, fish without scales, and etc.?

Leviticus 23:4-8
4'These are the appointed times of the LORD, holy convocations which you shall proclaim at the times appointed for them. 5'In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at twilight is the Lord's Passover. 6'Then on the fifteenth day of the same month there is the Feast of Unleavened Bread to the LORD; for seven days you shall eat unleavened bread. 7'On the first day you shall have a holy convocation; you shall not do any laborious work. 8'But for seven days you shall present an offering by fire to the LORD. On the seventh day is a holy convocation; you shall not do any laborious work.' "
NAS

This is part of the Law. Are you telling us that we must observe the Feast of Unleavened Bread and the Passover as well as the other mandated holy convocations refrain from eating foods not listed in Leviticus since not keeping these Laws are transgressing the Law and therefore is sin?

[Endurance]

How carnal men can be. I've said so much and you've understood nothing.

I have already answered those questions. Yet you failed to answer one simple question for me. Why do you expect me to answer as you bombard me with questions and then you ignore everything I say. And just go back to repeat the same things.

I ask you do you believe that sin is transgressing from the law? You completely ignore that and ask me the same questions I just answered. I said if one hasn't kept the Passover and you think of a religious celebration and eating unleavened bread literally for seven days. Why are you so carnally minded after so many years of study? Why are you still looking to the temporal things rather than the eternal? Scripture says Christ is our Passover. What do you think it means by that? If He is our Passover, how do you say we don't celebrate it anymore?

Do you believe that sin is transgressing from the law?

Love Always,

[Aineo]

You have not answered my questions. If transgressing the Law is sin do we need to observe the dietary Laws? That is not a hard question to answer is it? You see I already know the answer to the question since it is answered in the Bible, which you have told me is my false interpretation of Scripture. Now since you deny the dietary Laws have been revoked and transgressing the Law is sin do you observe the dietary Laws or do you transgress the Law?

When you get cornered you accuse me of being carnal minded and avoid posting an answer.

Galatians 3:23-29

23 But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed. 24 Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, that we may be justified by faith. 25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. 26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise. NAS

You have pulled Romans 6 totally out of context since Paul starts his discourse in chapter 5 and ends it in chapter 8.

Romans 8:1-11
8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. 3 For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 in order that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so; 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him. 10 And if Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who indwells you. NAS

[Endurance]

To the question, do you believe that sin is transgressing from the law, I will take your response to mean yes you do believe that sin is transgressing of the law. If you have a problem with that, then I'll take it as a no you don't believe that sin is transgressin gthe law.

This is your fouth time asking me if I observe the dietary laws? And for the fourth time, I'll tell you yes, I do all that I know. Why can't you accept my answer. If I say yes, then accept my yes as yes. The next time you ask, the answer will not be changed to no.

You have spoken and I have. I'll leave the rest up to the readers to make their own choice. I said I don't know to the other question b/c there are some things that I have not yet been given wisdom of and I did not want to give a personal opinion on the matter.

With that being said, I would say that since I believe that trangressing the law is sin. To do such things would be sin, in my opinion.

Can you answer this at least:

Since you believe that sin is the transgression of the law, why don't you believe that if you transgress it, it is sin?

Now, explain to us how the scripture you qouted shows I've taken things out of context. You have done nothing but qouted scripture. Now that you have qouted scripture, how does that scripture you qouted show that I have taken things out of context?

Love Always,

[Aineo]

Okay, I went back and reread your posts and found this, which actually side steps my question:

They certainly are unclean animals as God said. I don't eat them anymore b/c God has shown me the error in it. And I would caution you as well, there is wisdom in what God said. Is it sinful? I don't know, but I will definitely pray about it and hopefully God will give me something more to tell you on this.

You are speaking out of both sides of your mouth. First you state that transgressing the Law is sin and then you post that you don't know if eating "unclean" food is sin. You are also conveniently ignoring Acts 15 and what Paul wrote in Galatians:

Galatians 2:11-16
11 But when Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned. 12 For prior to the coming of certain men from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he began to withdraw and hold himself aloof, fearing the party of the circumcision. 13 And the rest of the Jews joined him in hypocrisy, with the result that even Barnabas was carried away by their hypocrisy. 14 But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas in the presence of all, "If you, being a Jew, live like the Gentiles and not like the Jews, how is it that you compel the Gentiles to live like Jews? 15 "We are Jews by nature, and not sinners from among the Gentiles; 16 nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law shall no flesh be justified.
NAS

Paul calls Peter a hypocrite to his face in the presence of all because his fear of the Jews wh insisted that gentiles had to accept all the Jewish traditions and keep the whole Law. Also you have not addressed Passover and the other mandated celebrations found in the Law. As to praying to Father for wisdom concerning food, you might get the response to you believe my Son:

Matthew 15:1-9
15:1 Then some Pharisees and scribes came to Jesus from Jerusalem, saying, 2 "Why do Your disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat bread." 3 And He answered and said to them, "And why do you yourselves transgress the commandment of God for the sake of your tradition? 4 "For God said, 'Honor your father and mother,' and, 'He who speaks evil of father or mother, let him be put to death.' 5 "But you say, 'Whoever shall say to his father or mother," Anything of mine you might have been helped by has been given to God, " 6 he is not to honor his father or his mother.' And thus you invalidated the word of God for the sake of your tradition. 7 "You hypocrites, rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you, saying,
8'This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far away from Me.
9'But in vain do they worship Me, Teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.' NAS

Paul's discussion concerning the Law is to demonstrate that as Christian we are not under the Law, we are under God's grace. Paul discourse is to show his Hebrew readers that the "righteousness of the Law" did not and does not save anyone.

Romans 3:21-30

21 But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus; 25 whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed; 26 for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus. 27 Where then is boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith. 28 For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. 29 Or is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, 30 since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one.
NAS

Romans 4:13-25
13 For the promise to Abraham or to his descendants that he would be heir of the world was not through the Law, but through the righteousness of faith. 14 For if those who are of the Law are heirs, faith is made void and the promise is nullified; 15 for the Law brings about wrath, but where there is no law, neither is there violation. 16 For this reason it is by faith, that it might be in accordance with grace, in order that the promise may be certain to all the descendants, not only to those who are of the Law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all, 17(as it is written, "A father of many nations have I made you") in the sight of Him whom he believed, even God, who gives life to the dead and calls into being that which does not exist. 18 In hope against hope he believed, in order that he might become a father of many nations, according to that which had been spoken, "So shall your descendants be." 19 And without becoming weak in faith he contemplated his own body, now as good as dead since he was about a hundred years old, and the deadness of Sarah's womb; 20 yet, with respect to the promise of God, he did not waver in unbelief, but grew strong in faith, giving glory to God, 21 and being fully assured that what He had promised, He was able also to perform. 22 Therefore also it was reckoned to him as righteousness. 23 Now not for his sake only was it written, that it was reckoned to him, 24 but for our sake also, to whom it will be reckoned, as those who believe in Him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead, 25 He who was delivered up because of our transgressions, and was raised because of our justification. NAS

Romans 7:1-6
7:1 Or do you not know, brethren (for I am speaking to those who know the law), that the law has jurisdiction over a person as long as he lives? 2 For the married woman is bound by law to her husband while he is living; but if her husband dies, she is released from the law concerning the husband. 3 So then if, while her husband is living, she is joined to another man, she shall be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from the law, so that she is not an adulteress, though she is joined to another man. 4 Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ, that you might be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, that we might bear fruit for God. 5 For while we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which were aroused by the Law, were at work in the members of our body to bear fruit for death. 6 But now we have been released from the Law, having died to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter. NAS


Romans 9:30-33

30 What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, attained righteousness, even the righteousness which is by faith; 31 but Israel, pursuing a law of righteousness, did not arrive at that law. 32 Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as though it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone, 33 just as it is written,

"Behold, I lay in Zion a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense,
And he who believes in Him will not be disappointed." NAS

Romans 10:1-5
10:1 Brethren, my heart's desire and my prayer to God for them is for their salvation. 2 For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge. 3 For not knowing about God's righteousness, and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes. 5 For Moses writes that the man who practices the righteousness which is based on law shall live by that righteousness. NAS

Galatians 2:21
21 "I do not nullify the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly." NAS

Galatians 3:21-22
21 Is the Law then contrary to the promises of God? May it never be! For if a law had been given which was able to impart life, then righteousness would indeed have been based on law. 22 But the Scripture has shut up all men under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. NAS

Hebrews 7:11-17

11 Now if perfection was through the Levitical priesthood (for on the basis of it the people received the Law), what further need was there for another priest to arise according to the order of Melchizedek, and not be designated according to the order of Aaron? 12 For when the priesthood is changed, of necessity there takes place a change of law also. 13 For the one concerning whom these things are spoken belongs to another tribe, from which no one has officiated at the altar. 14 For it is evident that our Lord was descended from Judah, a tribe with reference to which Moses spoke nothing concerning priests. 15 And this is clearer still, if another priest arises according to the likeness of Melchizedek, 16 who has become such not on the basis of a law of physical requirement, but according to the power of an indestructible life. 17 For it is witnessed of Him,

"Thou art a priest forever
According to the order of Melchizedek."
NAS

You quoted 1 John 3:4 out of context:

1 John 3:1-12
3:1 See how great a love the Father has bestowed upon us, that we should be called children of God; and such we are. For this reason the world does not know us, because it did not know Him. 2 Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we shall be. We know that, when He appears, we shall be like Him, because we shall see Him just as He is. 3 And everyone who has this hope fixed on Him purifies himself, just as He is pure. 4 Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He appeared in order to take away sins; and in Him there is no sin. 6 No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him. 7 Little children, let no one deceive you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; 8 the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10 By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother. 11 For this is the message which you have heard from the beginning, that we should love one another; 12 not as Cain, who was of the evil one, and slew his brother. And for what reason did he slay him? Because his deeds were evil, and his brother's were righteous. NAS

Your whole premise is based on pulling parts of Scripture out of context.

[Endurance]

To the question, do you believe that sin is transgressing from the law, I will take your response to mean yes you do believe that sin is transgressing of the law. If you have a problem with that, then I'll take it as a no you don't believe that sin is transgressin gthe law.

This is your fouth time asking me if I observe the dietary laws? And for the fourth time, I'll tell you yes, I do all that I know. Why can't you accept my answer. If I say yes, then accept my yes as yes. The next time you ask, the answer will not be changed to no.

You have spoken and I have. I'll leave the rest up to the readers to make their own choice. I said I don't know to the other question b/c there are some things that I have not yet been given wisdom of and I did not want to give a personal opinion on the matter.

With that being said, I would say that since I believe that trangressing the law is sin. To do such things would be sin, in my opinion.

Can you answer this at least:

Since you believe that sin is the transgression of the law, why don't you believe that if you transgress it, it is sin?

Now, explain to us how the scripture you qouted shows I've taken things out of context. You have done nothing but qouted scripture. Now that you have qouted scripture, how does that scripture you qouted show that I have taken things out of context?
Love Always,

Why are you ignoring everything I say to you???

You say this

You are speaking out of both sides of your mouth. First you state that transgressing the Law is sin and then you post that you don't know if eating "unclean" food is sin.

After I've said this

With that being said, I would say that since I believe that trangressing the law is sin. To do such things would be sin, in my opinion.

So you go back and accuse me of side stepping your question, after I've posted the above (note you have still ignored what I've been asking you)

You say this:

Paul calls Peter a hypocrite to his face in the presence of all because his fear of the Jews wh insisted that gentiles had to accept all the Jewish traditions and keep the whole Law.

It is true that Paul calls Peter a hypocrite, but why did he call Peter such? Not b/c he insisted that gentiles keep the law, but b/c he separated himself from the gentiles b/c of the Jews. There you go adding your own opinion to scripture again. As you underlined, Peter used to eat with them. (Note it doesn't say the he ate everything that gentiles ate, but that he ate with them). Then what does it say, Peter started to withdraw himself. Does it say that Peter told them to keep the law or that Peter changed what he would eat? NO. Those things you are adding to Paul's rebuke. It only says that he separted himself from them.

You say this:

Also you have not addressed Passover and the other mandated celebrations found in the Law.

After I've said this:

I said if one hasn't kept the Passover and you think of a religious celebration and eating unleavened bread literally for seven days. Why are you so carnally minded after so many years of study? Why are you still looking to the temporal things rather than the eternal? Scripture says Christ is our Passover. What do you think it means by that? If He is our Passover, how do you say we don't celebrate it anymore?

Which you completely ignored and did not respond to. Now you want me to answer your question again, the answer is above.

You said this

Paul's discussion concerning the Law is to demonstrate that as Christian we are not under the Law, we are under God's grace. Paul discourse is to show his Hebrew readers that the "righteousness of the Law" did not and does not save anyone.

I have said myself that no one is justified (saved) by the deeds of the law, so what is your point? Yes Paul does say we are not under the law, but he also says we establish it. If we establish it, how do you suppose that we are enabled to walk contrary to it?

You say this:

Your whole premise is based on pulling parts of Scripture out of context.

But you still have not and continue to refuse to show how I'm doing this. You are just qouting scripture. I agree with the scripture, it is what you say it says that I disagree with. So just qouting scripture does nothing to rebutt me, if you don't explain how it is showing what you say it shows. My original post is still here. Go and show which statement that I've made which is wrong in the initial post. If you cannot do this, then hold your piece. Also, if you continue to ignore everything I ask you and bring to your attention, I will end this discussion as I have in our discussion in the Sabbath thread.

Love Always,

[Aineo]

Now you are playing the hypocrite by side stepping my questions and applying NT teachings to OT Laws.

Leviticus 23:4-8
4'These are the appointed times of the LORD, holy convocations which you shall proclaim at the times appointed for them. 5'In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at twilight is the Lord's Passover. 6'Then on the fifteenth day of the same month there is the Feast of Unleavened Bread to the LORD; for seven days you shall eat unleavened bread. 7'On the first day you shall have a holy convocation; you shall not do any laborious work. 8'But for seven days you shall present an offering by fire to the LORD. On the seventh day is a holy convocation; you shall not do any laborious work.' " NAS

If you do not keep the Feast of Unleavened Bread and the Passover you are in fact transgressing the Law and to appeal to Christ being our Passover indicates you don't keep the Law, which makes you a hypocrite when you claim I am carnal minded because I don't observe the dietary Laws, or any of the mandated OT celebrations or accept your personal interpretations of selected verses taken totally out of context.

As to Paul calling Peter a hypocrite can you understand plain English?

Galatians 2:11-14
11 But when Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned. 12 For prior to the coming of certain men from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he began to withdraw and hold himself aloof, fearing the party of the circumcision. 13 And the rest of the Jews joined him in hypocrisy, with the result that even Barnabas was carried away by their hypocrisy. NAS

What was the party of the circumcision? And why refuse to eat with gentiles after the Judaisers arrived from Jerusalem? Was it because the gentiles did not observe the dietary Laws? Your interpretation of this Scripture denies its contents. Peter feared the Judaisers who wanted gentile believers to adhere to all Jewish traditions and keep the whole Law, and if you have studied Acts 15 that issue was handled with this:

Acts 15:22-29

22 Then it seemed good to the apostles and the elders, with the whole church, to choose men from among them to send to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas-- Judas called Barsabbas, and Silas, leading men among the brethren, 23 and they sent this letter by them,

"The apostles and the brethren who are elders, to the brethren in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia who are from the Gentiles, greetings.

24 "Since we have heard that some of our number to whom we gave no instruction have disturbed you with their words, unsettling your souls, 25 it seemed good to us, having become of one mind, to select men to send to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, 26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.

27 "Therefore we have sent Judas and Silas, who themselves will also report the same things by word of mouth.

28 "For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay upon you no greater burden than these essentials: 29 that you abstain from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication; if you keep yourselves free from such things, you will do well. Farewell. " NAS

As to your one verse quote from 1 John 3; I totally reject your personal interpretation of that single verse taken from an archaic translation. Taken in context John is teaching that any person who claims to be a Christian and practices sin is not a Christian.

Paul is clear in all his epistles that Christians are not under the law but under grace through faith in Jesus Christ. Take the time to study the Law Endurance before you continue your sophomoric insistence that you are teaching anyone God's truth. So far all you have demonstrated is you are listening to spirits of deception, which is common among those who advocate cultish beliefs as God's truth.

As to ending this discussion because you have shown yourself to be both a hypocrite and totally wrong in your beliefs, that is what you always do when you cannot respond with anything more than your opinions based on personal interpretations of God’s word.

[Endurance]

Now you are playing the hypocrite by side stepping my questions and applying NT teachings to OT Laws.

What? Don't you know that the bible contains God's word. The OT is cohesive with the New Testament. It possesses the Word of God. How else can one understand if they don't know how they relate to one another? You are not speaking wisely, saying such things. Paul is the one who applied Christ to the Passover. I qouted him. Paul said that Christ is our passover. The Spirit is the one who applied Christ's fulfillment of it to the OT laws (note: I have always said and do say, that some things were foreshadowings).

You say

If you do not keep the Feast of Unleavened Bread and the Passover you are in fact transgressing the Law and to appeal to Christ being our Passover indicates you don't keep the Law, which makes you a hypocrite when you claim I am carnal minded because I don't observe the dietary Laws, or any of the mandated OT celebrations or accept your personal interpretations of selected verses taken totally out of context.

I have told you that such things are kept in Christ. Read Hebrews, you'll see how the temple relates to Christ and the fulfillments of Christ in those things (foreshadowings). Just as Christ is the sacrifice (or fulfillment of the sacrificial system [foreshadowing]), He is our sacrifice.

Christ is our Passover, in Him we keep the feast, as Scripture shows it's fulfillment by Paul's testimony. I never we are not to observe it, I said we are not His if it's not celebrated in Him, for He is our Passover.

You said

when you claim I am carnal minded because I don't observe the dietary Laws, or any of the mandated OT celebrations or accept your personal interpretations of selected verses taken totally out of context.

Now, you are giving my words your own meaning like you have been doing with scripture. THis is what I said:

I said if one hasn't kept the Passover and you think of a religious celebration and eating unleavened bread literally for seven days. Why are you so carnally minded after so many years of study? Why are you still looking to the temporal things rather than the eternal? Scripture says Christ is our Passover. What do you think it means by that? If He is our Passover, how do you say we don't celebrate it anymore?

I said you were being carnally minded because I said, I speak of the Passover and you think of physical things (religious celebrations and eating literal unleavened bread). Our Passover is spiritual. Christ is our unleavened bread. When I spoke of you being carnally minded, I said nothing about dietary laws, or whether you observe celebrations. You added that. I said you're being carnally minded because of how you're thinking and not what you do or don't do.

You said this:

What was the party of the circumcision? And why refuse to eat with gentiles after the Judaisers arrived from Jerusalem? Was it because the gentiles did not observe the dietary Laws?

The party of the circumcision is the Jews. Because a Jew was not supposed to eat with Gentiles according to their traditions.

Acts 10:28 - And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.

Notice, but God just gave him a vision which conveyed that Peter should call no man uncommon. And no, it was not because they did not observe dietary laws. It was because a Jew was not supposed to keep company with a Gentile, according to their traditions. How do you even assume to know what their diets were like anyway?

And you continued:

Your interpretation of this Scripture denies its contents. Peter feared the Judaisers who wanted gentile believers to adhere to all Jewish traditions and keep the whole Law, and if you have studied Acts 15 that issue was handled with this:

What I'm saying doesn't deny the content or context. So far, you have not qouted one things I've said to anyscripture of Rom 6, that you claim I've taken out of context. Yet, every scripture you post and speak on the content of it, it is clear that you are adding things that is not said in them. Such as dietary laws. The scripure says nothing of dietary laws, but Peter withdrawing himself from the Gentiles brethren.

You said this:

As to your one verse quote from 1 John 3; I totally reject your personal interpretation of that single verse taken from an archaic translation. Taken in context John is teaching that any person who claims to be a Christian and practices sin is not a Christian.

1 John 3:4 - Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Since you say it's my personal interpretation. Tell us what is this scripture saying. It is not saying that sin is transgressing the law? I would love to understand how you feel it says otherwise.

You say this:
John is teaching that any person who claims to be a Christian and practices sin is not a Christian

You see, this is what I mean by you add your own meaning. Look at how you what you have to say about 1 John 3:4

Where is a distinction? He says whosoever and not Christian or non-Christian.

You take whosoever commits sin, transgresses the law. because sin is transgressing the law. and make it to mean a person who claims to be Christain and practices sin is not a christain. It says sin is the transgression of the law verbatim. So if I say, if one transgresses the law, it is sin. How is that taken out of context? It is not.

Conversely, you say, that any person who claims to be a christain and practices sin, is not a Christain.

The scripture says not thing of any specific group, it says whosoever. He doesn't say who a person is who practices sin. He says what they are doing (transgressing the law).

You say a Christain who practices sin is not a Christain? Well how do you know what Sin is? This is how Paul knew what sin is:

Romans 7:7 - What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

He says if not for the law, he would not know what sin is. Which is to say that they law tells us what is sin.

Proverbs 29:18 - Where there is no vision, the people perish: but he that keepeth the law, happy is he.

In contrast (opposition) to people perish for having no vision, he says he that keepeth the law is happy. What does that suggest Aineo?

Revelation 14:12 - Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus

He says the saints are they that keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. The faith of Christ and the keeping of His commandments go hand in hand.

Isaiah 8:20 - To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

I take God to be true and every man a liar. According to the Prophet Isaiah, if one does not speak according to the law and the testimony, there is no light in them. Since I believe God, I must acknowledge, there is no light in you because you speak contrary to His word.

The prophets and apostles, and even Christ Himself, spoke according to both. They did not speak contrary to it.

Love Always,

[Aineo]

Yes, I know the Bible contains the word of God. However, your thesis is that transgressing the Law is sin. Now what is the Law (which you also state has not been changed)? The Law is the 1st 5 books of the Bible, which contians the sacrificial requirements to atone for sin. Now, if you do not offer sacrifices as prescribed by the Law you are transgressing the Law.

I have read Hebrews but apparently you have not or you would have noticed that according to Hebrews with a change in priesthood the Law of necessity also changes. So once again you are picking and choosing what to believe based on an archaic translation and your own personal opinions and interpretations.

As to the Passover, you brought up the Law and I picked a couple Laws that are no longer valid since the sacrificial requirements of the Law are fulfilled in and by Christ and were changed by God in a vision to Peter and by the Council of Jerusalem.

The party of the circumcision is the Jews. Because a Jew was not supposed to eat with Gentiles according to their traditions.

Now you are showing your ignorance of the Law and the context of Acts 15 and Galatians. According to the Law a stranger was to be treated as a native. Have you even bothered to read the Torah?

As to 1 John 3:4, I quoted that whole section of Scripture in a modern translation. Did you take the time to read it or are you one of those King James only people? You are quoting from the KJV, right?

1 John 3:1-12
3:1 See how great a love the Father has bestowed upon us, that we should be called children of God; and such we are. For this reason the world does not know us, because it did not know Him. 2 Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we shall be. We know that, when He appears, we shall be like Him, because we shall see Him just as He is. 3 And everyone who has this hope fixed on Him purifies himself, just as He is pure. 4 Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He appeared in order to take away sins; and in Him there is no sin. 6 No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him. 7 Little children, let no one deceive you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; 8 the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10 By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother. 11 For this is the message which you have heard from the beginning, that we should love one another; 12 not as Cain, who was of the evil one, and slew his brother. And for what reason did he slay him? Because his deeds were evil, and his brother's were righteous. NAS

Now here is the full section in the KJV:

1 John 3:1-12
3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
11 For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.
12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous. KJV

As far as you are concerned any person who disagrees with your private interpretation is not taught by God, which again is the sign of a cult member.

I will repeat, if you take 1 John 3:4 to be transgressing the Torah is sin and you do not keep the whole Law then according to James:

James 2:8-13

8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:

9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.

10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.
KJV

You see Endurance one can come to know and be known by Jesus and never even read or understand the OT Law because as God stated He will make a New Covenant and write His Law in our hearts, which the Holy Spirit then uses to convict us of sin and what James calls the royal law. Or have you decided to ignore what Paul also wrote in Romans concerning those who knew the Law. Paul did not teach gentiles the Law, Paul taught gentiles we are saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ. But you are hung up on the Law just as the Judaisers were hung up on the Law and all the traditions developed by men over centuries of ignoring the spirit of the Law.

[/quote]

[Endurance]

I have read Hebrews but apparently you have not or you would have noticed that according to Hebrews with a change in priesthood the Law of necessity also changes. So once again you are picking and choosing what to believe based on an archaic translation and your own personal opinions and interpretations.

I will come back to the first statement you've made. Hebrews does state the law also changes. Maybe I've not done a good job of conveying what I'm saying. When I say that law has not changed. I'm saying that it remains the same. If you will be honest, you will acknowledge that I have said that the focus was shifted to the spirit, rather than the letter. So it still remains the same. I will give an example as I respond to your next statement.

As to the Passover, you brought up the Law and I picked a couple Laws that are no longer valid since the sacrificial requirements of the Law are fulfilled in and by Christ and were changed by God in a vision to Peter and by the Council of Jerusalem.

Here is my example; As with the Passover, according to the letter, we are to eat unleavened bread for seven days among other ritualistic things. Yet, Christ is our passover now and our spiritual bread. I am speaking according to the spirit of the law and not the letter. But you are focusing on the letter, which is why I've stated you're thinking carnally. You see, it did not change in the sense I'm speaking of, they observed passover and ate bread literally (according to the letter) but we observe it in Christ and eat from the bread of life, who is none other than God Himself. It is still the same, the focus is just shifted to the spirit.

You said:

Now you are showing your ignorance of the Law and the context of Acts 15 and Galatians. According to the Law a stranger was to be treated as a native. Have you even bothered to read the Torah?

I am not showing my ignorance of the law. You are showing your ability to ignore what I'm saying and also ignoring the scriptural reasons, I'm saying it although they are in your face. I said:

The party of the circumcision is the Jews. Because a Jew was not supposed to eat with Gentiles according to their traditions.

Acts 10:28 - And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.

This is Peter talking here and he says it and not I. Also, if you notice, I said according to their traditions. Jesus spoke of their traditions. How they made God's word of none effect. And you speaking of how they are supposed to treat a stranger in their land, only proves their traditions did so. It does not show "my ignorance" of the law.

Also, why did you leave out the scripture that also says the Jew is not supposed to keep company with one of another nation, remember it was Peter saying this and it was also Peter who removed himself from the gentile brethren when the Jews came.

You said:

As to 1 John 3:4, I quoted that whole section of Scripture in a modern translation. Did you take the time to read it or are you one of those King James only people? You are quoting from the KJV, right?

Yes I read it and if you want, let's use your version.

1 John 3:4 - Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness.

Where is the distinction in this? It says everyone and not every Christian or Non-Christain. You're still adding. It say what sin is and not whether one who practices sin is Christian or Not. You're still adding. Your version says sin is lawlessness.

What is lawlessness? If I am without a law, am I not lawless? As you claim to be under no law, you proclaim lawlessness, though you are not aware of it. David sinned, but was He lawless? Solomon sinned, but was He lawless? You see while sin is lawlessness, people can sin even if they are under the law and not lawless. Conversely, If you're arguing that lawlessness is activity which is not permitted by law, I would agree with that and that agrees with the KJV's translation of the text.

You say:

As far as you are concerned any person who disagrees with your private interpretation is not taught by God, which again is the sign of a cult member.

No. As far as I'm concerned, anyone who does not speak the truth is not taught by God. And it is not I who am a cult member. There is no private interpretation of scripture. So how do you assume that the father's of your doctrines and traditions have private interpretation and that how they have interpreted it, it is? You are the one who banned me from the Christian forum as a cult member b/c I don't agree with your teacher's private interpretations of scripture. Yet you argue I judge those who disagree with me as such and such. And you've called me a hypocrite so many times it is a shame.

You said:

You see Endurance one can come to know and be known by Jesus and never even read or understand the OT Law because as God stated He will make a New Covenant and write His Law in our hearts, which the Holy Spirit then uses to convict us of sin and what James calls the royal law. Or have you decided to ignore what Paul also wrote in Romans concerning those who knew the Law. Paul did not teach gentiles the Law, Paul taught gentiles we are saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ. But you are hung up on the Law just as the Judaisers were hung up on the Law and all the traditions developed by men over centuries of ignoring the spirit of the Law.

Notice from your own mouth you've said, "He writes HIS LAW in our hearts, which the Holy Spirit then uses TO CONVICT US OF SIN."

You've just confessed that the law is what tells us what sin is. You said the Spirit uses what? The LAW to convict us of sin. You are partially wrong this time, the Judaisers were hung up on the law and their traditions that were passed down to them by their fathers, just as you defend the traditions of your synagogues. And Christ said their traditions made the Word of God (The Law) of none effect. It was the traditions and not the law that was the problem. As with the example he gave of, Honor thy Mother and Father v.s. their doctrine of "corban." Christ was not against the law.

Ezekiel 36:27 - And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Is not His spirit the Holy Spirit? It says ye shall keep my judgements and do them and walk in my statutes. The spirit of the law is not contrary to the law, but it establishes it, as fulfilled by Christ in us.

You said:

Yes, I know the Bible contains the word of God. However, your thesis is that transgressing the Law is sin. Now what is the Law (which you also state has not been changed)? The Law is the 1st 5 books of the Bible, which contians the sacrificial requirements to atone for sin. Now, if you do not offer sacrifices as prescribed by the Law you are transgressing the Law.

and this:

ignoring the spirit of the Law

This is what I'm talking about, the spirit of the law. Christ being our passover for example is the spirit of the law. Him being our tabernacle and bread is the spirit of the law. We still eat the unleavened bread (follow the law) it is just that Christ is our bread (according to the spirit of the law) rather than actual bread (according to the letter of the law)

The spirit of the law (grace) is not contrary to the letter. This is the overall point that I'm making when I say that the law has not changed. That the spirit of the law is not contrary to the letter of the law. IF they speak not according to the law and the testimony, there is no light in them. That is because if you speak of the spirit of the law (testimony) it is not contrary to the law, but it establishes it, as Paul confirms Rom 3:31.

Just as Hebrews confrims that Christ fulfilled the Temple and Levitical system, and that He is not in the holy place made with hands (temple buildings, church buildings, mosques, etc.) but he is found without the camp (outside of such things), where we go to Him without the camp, bearing His reproach. He was truly rejected by the religious leaders of His day. And His true followers are still rejected by them today. As it was then, so shall it be.

Love Always,

[Aineo]

Quote the section of the Law that states Jesus is our Passover and after you do that then reconcile Acts 15 with the Law. If trangressing of the Law is sin and you trangress any part of the Law you are guilty of the whole Law.

Jeremiah 31:31-34
31 "Behold, days are coming," declares the LORD, "when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them, "declares the LORD. 33 "But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days," declares the LORD, "I will put My law within them, and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 "And they shall not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD,' for they shall all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them," declares the LORD, "for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more." NAS

Hebrews 7:11-17

11 Now if perfection was through the Levitical priesthood (for on the basis of it the people received the Law), what further need was there for another priest to arise according to the order of Melchizedek, and not be designated according to the order of Aaron? 12 For when the priesthood is changed, of necessity there takes place a change of law also. 13 For the one concerning whom these things are spoken belongs to another tribe, from which no one has officiated at the altar. 14 For it is evident that our Lord was descended from Judah, a tribe with reference to which Moses spoke nothing concerning priests. 15 And this is clearer still, if another priest arises according to the likeness of Melchizedek, 16 who has become such not on the basis of a law of physical requirement, but according to the power of an indestructible life. 17 For it is witnessed of Him,

"Thou art a priest forever
According to the order of Melchizedek."
NAS

Leviticus 19:33-34

33'When a stranger resides with you in your land, you shall not do him wrong. 34'The stranger who resides with you shall be to you as the native among you, and you shall love him as yourself; for you were aliens in the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God. NAS

Tradition is not the Law and by appealing to the traditions of the Jews you are widening the focus of "trangressing the Law is sin".

In Acts 10 Peter has a vision where God instructs Peter to kill and eat of unclean animals, which Peter later understands to mean the gentiles are to be given the message of Jesus and accepted into the Christian community. This vision also indicates the no food eaten by gentiles is unclean, which brings us to Galatians and Peter's hypocrisy since the ony part of the Law that Peter was violating by eating with the genitles was eating foods listed as unclean in Leviticus.

[Endurance]

In Acts 10 Peter has a vision where God instructs Peter to kill and eat of unclean animals, which Peter later understands to mean the gentiles are to be given the message of Jesus and accepted into the Christian community. This vision also indicates the no food eaten by gentiles is unclean, which brings us to Galatians and Peter's hypocrisy since the ony part of the Law that Peter was violating by eating with the genitles was eating foods listed as unclean in Leviticus.

At first you said, that the vision meant that God anulled the dietary laws. Then you were corrected and now you speak this partial truth. We have been over this scripture several times already and this will be the last time I address it. The vision was for Peter to not call the gentiles, an unholy people, unclean. But it does not state that unclean foods are now clean. Understand that visions and prophecy are not literal Aineo. Stop giving scripture your own meaning. Since you say that Peter was violating the law, by eating unclean foods, show where scripture says that Peter was eating unclean foods, which you will not be able to do b/c it does not say that.

Tradition is not the Law and by appealing to the traditions of the Jews you are widening the focus of "trangressing the Law is sin".

Again you are adding to my words as you do with scripture. I never said tradition was the law. I said this:

Also, if you notice, I said according to their traditions. Jesus spoke of their traditions. How they made God's word of none effect.

I said their traditions made God's word of none effect, as Christ testified. So where do you see me calling their traditions the Law? Clearly, you are giving my words your own meaning just as you've done with Peter's vision.

You said:

Quote the section of the Law that states Jesus is our Passover and after you do that then reconcile Acts 15 with the Law. If trangressing of the Law is sin and you trangress any part of the Law you are guilty of the whole Law.

Show me where I said the Law states that Christ is our Passover and I'll do that.

That is true and agree with you that if you transgress on any part, you're guilty of all. So can you think of anything else to say.

Regarding Acts 15, for the third time, I will answer this. I've answered this twice already (in a thread and in pm's) and again I will let you know that this is my last time addressing this.

Verse 19
Wherefore my sentence is that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God.

So far we see that they are not trying to be overbearing.

Verse 20
But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

So we see that since they did not want to be overbearing that they chose only to speak of a few things. Notice that they don't tell them not to lie, get drunk, murder, or steal. So is it okay if they do these things since they were not mentioned? Or will you avoid this question as you've avoided myriad points I've made in everypost?

Verse 21
For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

And now they give us the reason why they are only speaking of the more urgent matters at hand. 19 shows that they did not want to be overbearing (trouble them) so they chose to speak on a few things that they judged as more urgent then other things because they have people who preach Moses of old time (the Law) every Sabbath. Basic comprehension shows these things to be true.

Do you disagree that verse 19 says that they did not want to be burdensome for the Gentiles? If so, what does it say?

Do you disagree that they spoke to them on the most urgent or a few things? If not, then why did they not talk about murder, lying, and stealing, if those are the only things gentiles are to observe listed in Acts 15:20?

Do you disagree that their reason for doing these things (indicated by "For" in verse 21) is because they have Moses preached every Sabbath? If not, why did they say this?

Again I will say, that I have been responding to every point you make, but if you continue to ignore and avoid my points, then I will discontinue this discussion. And you can just call me all types of names and say I'm avoiding you as you always do, although it is not true. I'm not going to be petty and ask that you respond to the things in the previous posts, because they have grown so much that I wouldn't want to subject you to the time you would have to put into it, although I doubt you would do that becuse you continually avoid what I state. But I will ask these two questions and hopefully I'll get a response to this and the other points I've made.

Rom 3:31 states that we establish the law. So if we establish the law, being under grace, how do you figure that we walk contrary to it under grace?

Secondly, Paul states that the law is he knew what sin was. So if the law is what informs us of sin, should we continue to sin?

Love Always,

[Aineo]

Are you being purposely obtuse? By showing Peter unclean foods are now clean Peter discerned that gentiles were to be part of the New Covenant. The dietary laws have been changed (annulled.) This is further demonstrated by the action taken by the Council of Jerusalem.

I showed you what the Law specified concerning gentiles and how they were to be treated by the Jews, and you still insist that when Peter referred to Jewish tradition as the Law, he was not appealing to God’s Law. So you are using traditions that Jesus condemned making an invalid point.

Again are you being purposely obtuse in regard to my question regarding Jesus is the Passover for Christians? The Law mandates animal sacrifices by the Levites for the atonement of individual sins and the observance of Yom Kippur to atone for national sins. If you have studied Hebrews Jesus is now our High Priest, which also changes the Law as given to Moses. So with Jesus fulfilling these requirements of the Law, the Law was altered (changed). Therefore when we do not observe these Old Covenant Laws we are in fact transgressing the Laws as given to Moses.

Your analysis of Acts 15 is ludicrous, which is why I have ignored what you posted. One of the actions of the Council of Jerusalem referred to refraining from eating blood the council did not demand that gentiles observe the dietary laws, be circumcised, and etc.

Acts 15:19-20

19 "Therefore it is my judgment that we do not trouble those who are turning to God from among the Gentiles, 20 but that we write to them that they abstain from things contaminated by idols and from fornication and from what is strangled and from blood.
NAS

Verse 19 is only half a thought and your interpretation of this one verse is not backed up when taken in full context. James (as Bishop of Jerusalem) states they will not trouble the gentiles with anything greater than abstaining from things contaminated by idols, fornication, from what is strangled and from blood. Now go back to the verse 1 and read why the council was called. James does not mention circumcision so I suppose it is your contention that all male gentile believers are to be circumcised in accordance with the Law? Where does common sense come into your interpretation of Scripture?

Who goes to the synagogue? Jews, not gentiles so I fail to see your point regarding verse 21. The obvious meaning of this verse is that since gentile believers do not participate in the synagogue Jews would not be offended by the fact gentiles are not required to observe Jewish traditions and celebrations.

As to your comment that you will leave this discussion because I have refused your personal interpretation of the Scriptures I will repeat that is your usual tactic. As to name calling what do you think calling me carnal is doing?

Rom 3:31 states that we establish the law. So if we establish the law, being under grace, how do you figure that we walk contrary to it under grace?

Secondly, Paul states that the law is he knew what sin was. So if the law is what informs us of sin, should we continue to sin?

Once again you are pulling one verse totally out of context. Who is Paul addressing in Romans 3?

Romans 3:1-4
3:1 Then what advantage has the Jew? Or what is the benefit of circumcision? 2 Great in every respect. First of all, that they were entrusted with the oracles of God. 3 What then? If some did not believe, their unbelief will not nullify the faithfulness of God, will it? 4 May it never be! Rather, let God be found true, though every man be found a liar, as it is written,

"That Thou mightest be justified in Thy words,
And mightest prevail when Thou art judged."
NAS

Jews not gentile believers. Paul is always careful not to offend those Jewish believers who continued to practice their traditions (which is why he had Timothy circumcised).

As to your second comment the Law is how Paul knew he is a sinner, he does not state that gentiles are aware of Jewish Law. And after Paul states that because of the Law he knows he is a sinner he writes:

Romans 8:1-2
8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death.
NAS

What is the “law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus” that has set us free from the “law of sin and death”?

[Aineo]

Endurance, since you started this thread with your interpretation of Romans 6, I thought you might like to also dissect Romans 14.

Romans 14:1-12
14:1 Now accept the one who is weak in faith, but not for the purpose of passing judgment on his opinions. 2 One man has faith that he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats vegetables only. 3 Let not him who eats regard with contempt him who does not eat, and let not him who does not eat judge him who eats, for God has accepted him. 4 Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and stand he will, for the Lord is able to make him stand. 5 One man regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Let each man be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and he who eats, does so for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who eats not, for the Lord he does not eat, and gives thanks to God. 7 For not one of us lives for himself, and not one dies for himself; 8 for if we live, we live for the Lord, or if we die, we die for the Lord; therefore whether we live or die, we are the Lord's. 9 For to this end Christ died and lived again, that He might be Lord both of the dead and of the living. 10 But you, why do you judge your brother? Or you again, why do you regard your brother with contempt? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of God. 11 For it is written,

"As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to Me,
And every tongue shall give praise to God."

12 So then each one of us shall give account of himself to God.
NAS

By your interpretation of 1 John 3:4 and what Jesus taught concerning the Law; Paul is teaching people the dietary laws (and the Sabbath) are a matter of personal choice, which makes Paul a man who teaches Christians to transgress the Levitical Law.

On the Sabbath thread I asked you to explain this:

Colossians 2:16-19

16 Therefore let no one act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day-- 17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ. 18 Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on visions he has seen, inflated without cause by his fleshly mind, 19 and not holding fast to the head, from whom the entire body, being supplied and held together by the joints and ligaments, grows with a growth which is from God. NAS

Here again Paul is teaching the dietary laws are moot.

What you have failed to take into consideration with your disgust (I would label your feelings hate) for Christianity as a whole is that the 1st century church had a major obstacle to contend with and that obstacle was merging two diverse communities. On the one hand you have the Hebrews with over a thousand years of adherence to the Law and their traditions. On the other hand you have the gentiles who were totally devoid of this long cultural bias. So while the Jewish apostles who understood and taught God's truth went out of their way not to offend the Hebrews they also did not water down God's revealed truth concerning the New Covenant, which set believers in Christ free from the Law and put them under His grace.

Galatians 5:1
5:1 It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery. NAS

You whole thesis is to place men back under the “yoke of slavery” to an Old Covenant (the Law).

[Endurance]

Endurance, since you started this thread with your interpretation of Romans 6, I thought you might like to also dissect Romans 14.

I will do that for you the next time I start a thread. I'll go through it.

By your interpretation of 1 John 3:4 and what Jesus taught concerning the Law; Paul is teaching people the dietary laws (and the Sabbath) are a matter of personal choice, which makes Paul a man who teaches Christians to transgress the Levitical Law.

Not at all, by what I'm speaking to you, Paul is not teaching contrary to the law. Let's look at some of what is said in this scripture, since you didn't say anything about it.

Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations. 2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs. 3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him. 4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. 5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. 6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks. 7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself. 8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's. 9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living. 10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. 11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. 12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

In this Paul is speaking of one who's a vegetarian judging one who is not. It does not seem to me that he is speaking of unclean foods, but you may be right. Note: remember me saying this:

I said I don't know to the other question b/c there are some things that I have not yet been given wisdom of and I did not want to give a personal opinion on the matter.

With that being said, I would say that since I believe that trangressing the law is sin. To do such things would be sin, in my opinion.

I have not been telling you to stop eating pork or whatever else you eat. I said I don't. If you look above, I said that is my opinion on whether or not eating something unclean is a sin. And I also said, that I said, I don't know if it is or not because I don't want to speak my opinion as truth. The reason being,

Colossians 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come, but the body is of Christ.

How many times have I said that some things where a shadow of things to come. Not everything was a foreshadowing though. The fulfillment of the sabbath, is when one rest from his works. For example, circumcision is fulfilled when Christ cuts off the foreskin of the heart, rather than the flesh; fulfilled in Christ. The temple, in that Christ is building God's eternal temple, physical temples have passed away, for the body it the true temple, fulfilled in Christ. Passover, in us being covered by the blood of the lamb, fed with the True Unleavened Bread, and being delivered from sin, fulfilled in Christ.

Yet, I have not learned how or in what way dietary laws were fulfilled (keep in mind, these were not rituals, but a way of life and eating) in Christ. When God reveals it to me, if that is the case, then maybe I'll reconsider. Or if I had seen scripture declare such. Acts does not do that. Can you explain how they have been?

Now on to the Sabbath,

Hebrews 3:18 - And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?

Hebrews 4:1 - Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.

Hebrews 4:4-6 - For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. 5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest. 6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:

Hebrews 4:9 - There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

This says it remains a rest to enter. Thus, Sabbath awaits fulfillment.

Colossians 2:16-19 - Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. 18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, 19 And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God. KJV

Colossians 2:16 - Let none therefore judge you in meat or in drink, or in matter of feast, or new moon, or sabbaths, Darby

Colossians 2:16 Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a sabbath. RSV

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in eating, or in drinking, or with respect to a feast day or a new moon or Shabbat, HNV

Colossians 2:16 So don't let anyone condemn you for what you eat or drink, or for not celebrating certain holy days or new-moon ceremonies or Sabbaths. NLT

We could argue for days about whether this is talking about the Sabbath or the convocations. For example, there are sabbaths in Passover. Yet Christ is our Passover, so it's not necessary to keep the holy day or holiday. Can you show how Christ fulfilled the Passover? Hebrews states there remains a rest. Understand those things that were foreshadowing and with passed, were fulfilled.

Regarding Gal 5, you left out verse 2

Gal 5:1-2 - Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.

He is talking about circumcision, which was a foreshadowing which Christ fulfilled according to the scripture.

Aineo, it's time that we agree to disagree on this issue. For I can't make you see what you don't and you likewise cannot for me. It is God who gives understanding.

Love Always,

[Aineo]

We can agree to disagree on the dietary laws and the Sabbath since Paul plainly writes in more than one book that gentiles (and even the Jews) who believe are not required to keep either or adhere to the Levitical Law. As to my leaving out two verses in Galatians, that is minor compared to your pulling one verse out of 1 John 3.

How you want to interpret Scripture is up to you; but when you start disseminating heresy in the name of personal teachings from God on this message board and denigrate Christian who disagree with you, you will be challanged. Paul, Peter, and the other apostles taught Christians to transgress the Law, which makes your idiotic interpretation of 1 John 3:4 nothing but heresy from the depths of hell.

As to your analysis of Romans 14 Acts 10, 15, and the other Scriptures that deal with diet all you have shown is that you will avoid the obvious understanding so you don't have to admit you are wrong.

As to what you quoted from Hebrews; as usual you are pulling only those verse out of context you think will support your personal interpretations.

Hebrews 3:16-4:13
16 For who provoked Him when they had heard? Indeed, did not all those who came out of Egypt led by Moses? 17 And with whom was He angry for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies fell in the wilderness? 18 And to whom did He swear that they should not enter His rest, but to those who were disobedient? 19 And so we see that they were not able to enter because of unbelief.

Hebrews 4

4:1 Therefore, let us fear lest, while a promise remains of entering His rest, any one of you should seem to have come short of it. 2 For indeed we have had good news preached to us, just as they also; but the word they heard did not profit them, because it was not united by faith in those who heard. 3 For we who have believed enter that rest, just as He has said,
"As I swore in My wrath, They shall not enter My rest,"
although His works were finished from the foundation of the world. 4 For He has thus said somewhere concerning the seventh day, "And God rested on the seventh day from all His works"; 5 and again in this passage, "They shall not enter My rest." 6 Since therefore it remains for some to enter it, and those who formerly had good news preached to them failed to enter because of disobedience, 7 He again fixes a certain day, "Today," saying through David after so long a time just as has been said before,
"Today if you hear His voice, Do not harden your hearts."
8 For if Joshua had given them rest, He would not have spoken of another day after that. 9 There remains therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God. 10 For the one who has entered His rest has himself also rested from his works, as God did from His. 11 Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall through following the same example of disobedience. 12 For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart. 13 And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are open and laid bare to the eyes of Him with whom we have to do. NAS

Go back an reread Genesis 1 and you will notice the first 6 days are described as evening and moring the first day, second day, and etc. However, the 7th day does not have that descriptive phrase. So we are still living in God's day of rest. So again you are avoiding the obvious understanding of Scripture so you can establish the Sabbath as a day of worship and not a day of ceasing from work so people can rest. Another interesting use of "sabbath" by God is the "sabbath rest" for the land, which was every 7th year. For the Jews any day the Lord commanded as a day of rest is a "sabbath" regardless of what day of the week it falls on. For instance the 2 sabbaths during the Feast of Unleavened Bread seldom fell on Saturdays.

As to Galatians 5:1, I did not leave out verse 2 since Galatians 5:1 completes what Paul was teaching in Galatians 4. Galatians 5:2 starts a new topic.

I notice you avoided this:

What is the “law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus” that has set us free from the “law of sin and death”?

What law is John addressing in 1 John 3:4 (by using your translation)? James refers to the "royal law" and Paul the "law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus".


What we will agree to disagree on is your interpretations that deny God's truth.

[Endurance]

We can agree to disagree on the dietary laws and the Sabbath since Paul plainly writes in more than one book that gentiles (and even the Jews) who believe are not required to keep either or adhere to the Levitical Law. As to my leaving out two verses in Galatians, that is minor compared to your pulling one verse out of 1 John 3.

If you feel that way, it is your right...

How you want to interpret Scripture is up to you; but when you start disseminating heresy in the name of personal teachings from God on this message board and denigrate Christian who disagree with you, you will be challanged. Paul, Peter, and the other apostles taught Christians to transgress the Law, which makes your idiotic interpretation of 1 John 3:4 nothing but heresy from the depths of hell.

It is not I who speak heresy. I have not denigrated Christians who disagree with them. It is their teachings which are the problem. Lawlessness is what come from hell, think about it. It's your choice.

Go back an reread Genesis 1 and you will notice the first 6 days are described as evening and moring the first day, second day, and etc. However, the 7th day does not have that descriptive phrase. So we are still living in God's day of rest.

Hebrews states it remains a rest. You claim we are living in it. I'll go with the author of Hebrews. You are free to think otherwise.

So again you are avoiding the obvious understanding of Scripture so you can establish the Sabbath as a day of worship and not a day of ceasing from work so people can rest. Another interesting use of "sabbath" by God is the "sabbath rest" for the land, which was every 7th year. For the Jews any day the Lord commanded as a day of rest is a "sabbath" regardless of what day of the week it falls on. For instance the 2 sabbaths during the Feast of Unleavened Bread seldom fell on Saturdays.

There is no such things as a "day of worship," if you had paid attention to anyones views but your own, you would no that I don't believe in such a thing. So please, don't comment on what I say, because you have yet to speak correctly about things I've said.

That is true and as the Passover was fulfilled in Christ, let no man judge you if you don't observe those days. The Sabbath is more than just any day of rest even though they called those days sabbaths as well.

As to Galatians 5:1, I did not leave out verse 2 since Galatians 5:1 completes what Paul was teaching in Galatians 4. Galatians 5:2 starts a new topic.

I notice you avoided this:

What is the “law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus” that has set us free from the “law of sin and death”?

What law is John addressing in 1 John 3:4 (by using your translation)? James refers to the "royal law" and Paul the "law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus".

What we will agree to disagree on is your interpretations that deny God's truth.

Well we disagree there too. I don't believe that verse 1 is one topic and the second is something completely new. I have not answered your question because regardless of what I say, you will disagree. So I am just agreeing to disagree.

For example, you believe Peter's vision was literal, but I don't and that's apples and oranges. IF you take it literal, a person who doesn't take it that way will see it differently. Of course we are disagreeing on what it means. But it is not my words that deny God's truth.

So there is no this and that which we will disagree on. I disagree with many of your beliefs and practices. I've only posted this to clear up what I've said that you have twisted. So if you respond, please don't say "You said, are saying, have said" about me b/c your wrong a vast majority of the time. We just disagee.

With Love,

[Aineo]

If you feel that way, it is your right...

So you call me carnal because I disagree with your interpretation of Scripture.

Aineo, may I ask what do you think Christ meant when he said this:

Matthew 5:18 - For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

To me this does not say that the Sabbath is for the Jews only. But rather until heaven and earth pass away, that nothing from the law shall be changed. Do only the Jews celebrate Him as creator? Now if the Sabbath is the day he consecrated as holy because he rested from his works on it, shouldn't those who honor him as creator honor the day He made holy in reverence of Him creating the world?
http://www.jesus-christ-forums.com/home/viewtopic ... c&start=20

Do you see how you change your position from thread to thread? On the Which Sabbath thread you state that "nothing from the law shall be changed" and then you post that Jesus fulfilled the Law since it foreshadowed Him and therefore we do not need to keep parts of the Law. On this thread you posted:

I will go through Romans 6 verse by verse and examine the content.... Keeping this in mind as we go through it.

1 John 3:4 - Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Paul poses the question should we sin (disobey the law) since we are under grace and then answers the question NO. And asks how can we who are supposed to be dead to sin continue to sin.

So now lets look at a couple of the laws found in the Law, which is the 1st 5 books of the Bible or Genesis through Deuteronomy. If you disagree with this then ask any Torah observant Jew what is the Law according to Judaism.

Leviticus 24:16
16'Moreover, the one who blasphemes the name of the LORD shall surely be put to death; all the congregation shall certainly stone him. The alien as well as the native, when he blasphemes the Name, shall be put to death.
NAS

Leviticus 24:17-23

17'And if a man takes the life of any human being, he shall surely be put to death. 18'And the one who takes the life of an animal shall make it good, life for life. 19'And if a man injures his neighbor, just as he has done, so it shall be done to him: 20 fracture for fracture, eye for eye, tooth for tooth; just as he has injured a man, so it shall be inflicted on him. 21'Thus the one who kills an animal shall make it good, but the one who kills a man shall be put to death. 22'There shall be one standard for you; it shall be for the stranger as well as the native, for I am the LORD your God.' " 23 Then Moses spoke to the sons of Israel, and they brought the one who had cursed outside the camp and stoned him with stones. Thus the sons of Israel did, just as the LORD had commanded Moses.
NAS

Deuteronomy 21:18-21

18 "If any man has a stubborn and rebellious son who will not obey his father or his mother, and when they chastise him, he will not even listen to them, 19 then his father and mother shall seize him, and bring him out to the elders of his city at the gateway of his home town. 20 And they shall say to the elders of his city, 'This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey us, he is a glutton and a drunkard.' 21 "Then all the men of his city shall stone him to death; so you shall remove the evil from your midst, and all Israel shall hear of it and fear.
NAS

Now lets look at what men are allowed to eat.

Genesis 1:29-31
29 Then God said, "Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the surface of all the earth, and every tree which has fruit yielding seed; it shall be food for you; 30 and to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the sky and to every thing that moves on the earth which has life, I have given every green plant for food ";and it was so. 31 And God saw all that He had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day. NAS

God's original plan for man was to eat nothing but vegetation.

Genesis 1:29-31
29 Then God said, "Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the surface of all the earth, and every tree which has fruit yielding seed; it shall be food for you; 30 and to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the sky and to every thing that moves on the earth which has life, I have given every green plant for food ";and it was so. 31 And God saw all that He had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day.
NAS

Genesis 9:1-5
9:1 And God blessed Noah and his sons and said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth. 2 And the fear of you and the terror of you shall be on every beast of the earth and on every bird of the sky; with everything that creeps on the ground, and all the fish of the sea, into your hand they are given. 3 Every moving thing that is alive shall be food for you; I give all to you, as I gave the green plant. 4 Only you shall not eat flesh with its life, that is, its blood. 5 And surely I will require your lifeblood; from every beast I will require it. And from every man, from every man's brother I will require the life of man. NAS

After the flood all animals became food for mankind, the only prohibition was eating blood.

In Leviticus we read:

Leviticus 11:1-8
11:1 The LORD spoke again to Moses and to Aaron, saying to them, 2 "Speak to the sons of Israel, saying, 'These are the creatures which you may eat from all the animals that are on the earth. 3'Whatever divides a hoof, thus making split hoofs, and chews the cud, among the animals, that you may eat. 4'Nevertheless, you are not to eat of these, among those which chew the cud, or among those which divide the hoof: the camel, for though it chews cud, it does not divide the hoof, it is unclean to you. 5'Likewise, the rock badger, for though it chews cud, it does not divide the hoof, it is unclean to you; 6 the rabbit also, for though it chews cud, it does not divide the hoof, it is unclean to you; 7 and the pig, for though it divides the hoof, thus making a split hoof, it does not chew cud, it is unclean to you. 8'You shall not eat of their flesh nor touch their carcasses; they are unclean to you
NAS

I did not quote all the dietary laws as they are found in both Leviticus and Deuteronomy. But notice that only the sons of Israel have their diet restricted to clean and unclean foods. So what parts of the Law do gentiles transgress by eating pork, lobster, and etc., only those that apply only to the Jews. So how does a gentile transgress the law since what many Christians view as the Law was given only to one nation and that nation was the Hebrew nation?

Romans 6:12-14
12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body that you should obey its lusts, 13 and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law, but under grace. NAS

You have posted that Jesus fulfilled the Law, and then use 1 John 3:4 to show that transgressing the law is sin. If the Law has been fulfilled in one Man how can we transgress that Law?

Matthew 22:37-40
37 And He said to him, "'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.' 38 "This is the great and foremost commandment. 39 "The second is like it, 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' 40 "On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets."
NAS

Romans 13:1-10
13:1 Let every person be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God. 2 Therefore he who resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves. 3 For rulers are not a cause of fear for good behavior, but for evil. Do you want to have no fear of authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same; 4 for it is a minister of God to you for good. But if you do what is evil, be afraid; for it does not bear the sword for nothing; for it is a minister of God, an avenger who brings wrath upon the one who practices evil. 5 Wherefore it is necessary to be in subjection, not only because of wrath, but also for conscience' sake. 6 For because of this you also pay taxes, for rulers are servants of God, devoting themselves to this very thing. 7 Render to all what is due them: tax to whom tax is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honor to whom honor.

8 Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law. 9 For this, "You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet," and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." 10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor; love therefore is the fulfillment of the law.
NAS

Galatians 5:14-15
14 For the whole Law is fulfilled in one word, in the statement, " You shall love your neighbor as yourself." 15 But if you bite and devour one another, take care lest you be consumed by one another.
NAS

James 2:1-9
2:1 My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. 2 For if a man comes into your assembly with a gold ring and dressed in fine clothes, and there also comes in a poor man in dirty clothes, 3 and you pay special attention to the one who is wearing the fine clothes, and say, "You sit here in a good place," and you say to the poor man, "You stand over there, or sit down by my footstool," 4 have you not made distinctions among yourselves, and become judges with evil motives? 5 Listen, my beloved brethren: did not God choose the poor of this world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom which He promised to those who love Him? 6 But you have dishonored the poor man. Is it not the rich who oppress you and personally drag you into court? 7 Do they not blaspheme the fair name by which you have been called? 8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law, according to the Scripture, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself," you are doing well. 9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors.
NAS

Now lets look at the Passover.

Leviticus 23:4-8
4'These are the appointed times of the LORD, holy convocations which you shall proclaim at the times appointed for them. 5'In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at twilight is the Lord's Passover. 6'Then on the fifteenth day of the same month there is the Feast of Unleavened Bread to the LORD; for seven days you shall eat unleavened bread. 7'On the first day you shall have a holy convocation; you shall not do any laborious work. 8'But for seven days you shall present an offering by fire to the LORD. On the seventh day is a holy convocation; you shall not do any laborious work.' "
NAS[/color] NAS

1 Corinthians 5:1-8
5:1 It is actually reported that there is immorality among you, and immorality of such a kind as does not exist even among the Gentiles, that someone has his father's wife. 2 And you have become arrogant, and have not mourned instead, in order that the one who had done this deed might be removed from your midst. 3 For I, on my part, though absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged him who has so committed this, as though I were present. 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus, when you are assembled, and I with you in spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus, 5 I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. 6 Your boasting is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump of dough? 7 Clean out the old leaven, that you may be a new lump, just as you are in fact unleavened. For Christ our Passover also has been sacrificed. 8 Let us therefore celebrate the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. NAS

What feast is Paul referring to?

Galatians 3:23-29

23 But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed. 24 Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, that we may be justified by faith. 25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. 26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise. NAS

Have you studied the promises given to Abraham?

Genesis 17:1-8
17:1 Now when Abram was ninety-nine years old, the LORD appeared to Abram and said to him,

"I am God Almighty;
Walk before Me, and be blameless.
2 "And I will establish My covenant between Me and you,
And I will multiply you exceedingly."

3 And Abram fell on his face, and God talked with him, saying,

4 "As for Me, behold, My covenant is with you,
And you shall be the father of a multitude of nations.
5 "No longer shall your name be called Abram,
But your name shall be Abraham;
For I will make you the father of a multitude of nations.

6 "And I will make you exceedingly fruitful, and I will make nations of you, and kings shall come forth from you. 7 And I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you throughout their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and to your descendants after you. 8 And I will give to you and to your descendants after you, the land of your sojournings, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God." NAS

Only one of those “multitude of nations” was the nation of Israel. By God’s grace through faith in Jesus all nations are blessed through Abraham and are his heirs through that faith. This promise was given 400+ years before the Law given to the son’s of IsraelChristians are not under the Levitical Law so when Christians transgress that law they are not sinning. The Law that we can transgress and sin is:

John 13:31-35

31 When therefore he had gone out, Jesus said, "Now is the Son of Man glorified, and God is glorified in Him; 32 if God is glorified in Him, God will also glorify Him in Himself, and will glorify Him immediately. 33 "Little children, I am with you a little while longer. You shall seek Me; and as I said to the Jews, I now say to you also, 'Where I am going, you cannot come.' 34 "A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another. 35 "By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another." NAS

Now lets look at Galatians.

Galatians 4:21-5:12

21 Tell me, you who want to be under law, do you not listen to the law? 22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the bondwoman and one by the free woman. 23 But the son by the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and the son by the free woman through the promise. 24 This is allegorically speaking: for these women are two covenants, one proceeding from Mount Sinai bearing children who are to be slaves; she is Hagar. 25 Now this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children. 26 But the Jerusalem above is free; she is our mother. 27 For it is written,
"Rejoice, barren woman who does not bear; Break forth and shout, you who are not in labor; For more are the children of the desolate Than of the one who has a husband."
28 And you brethren, like Isaac, are children of promise. 29 But as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so it is now also. 30 But what does the Scripture say?
"Cast out the bondwoman and her son, For the son of the bondwoman shall not be an heir with the son of the free woman."
31 So then, brethren, we are not children of a bondwoman, but of the free woman.

Galatians 5

5:1 It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery.

2 Behold I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no benefit to you. 3 And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law. 4 You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. 5 For we through the Spirit, by faith, are waiting for the hope of righteousness. 6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love. 7 You were running well; who hindered you from obeying the truth? 8 This persuasion did not come from Him who calls you. 9 A little leaven leavens the whole lump of dough. 10 I have confidence in you in the Lord, that you will adopt no other view; but the one who is disturbing you shall bear his judgment, whoever he is. 11 But I, brethren, if I still preach circumcision, why am I still persecuted? Then the stumbling block of the cross has been abolished. 12 Would that those who are troubling you would even mutilate themselves.
NAS

Galatians 5:1 finishes Paul’s teaching in Galatians 4 and is transitional to what is found in Galatians 5:2 and following.

The First Bible With Chapter And Verse Divisions
The first entire Bible in which these chapter and verse divisions were used was Stephen’s edition of the Latin Vulgate (1555). The first English New Testament to have both chapter and verse divisions was the Geneva Bible (1560). Fortunately Jewish scholars have followed the way of dividing the Hebrew Scripture into chapters and verses.
http://www.blueletterbible.org/faq/nbi/273.html

If your only basis for advocating that Galatians 5:1 introduces vs. 2 is the chapter divisions found in modern Bibles you need to know these divisions are arbitrary man made divisions. Galatians 4 is dealing with the law as a whole and 5:1 is the logical conclusion of this discussion since in Galatians 5:2 Paul addresses a specific requirement found in the law that actually preceded the Law by over 400 years. Abraham was the person who received God’s command to be circumcised.

Genesis 17:9-14

9 God said further to Abraham, "Now as for you, you shall keep My covenant, you and your descendants after you throughout their generations. 10 This is My covenant, which you shall keep, between Me and you and your descendants after you: every male among you shall be circumcised. 11 And you shall be circumcised in the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be the sign of the covenant between Me and you. 12 And every male among you who is eight days old shall be circumcised throughout your generations, a servant who is born in the house or who is bought with money from any foreigner, who is not of your descendants. 13 A servant who is born in your house or who is bought with your money shall surely be circumcised; thus shall My covenant be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant. 14 But an uncircumcised male who is not circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin, that person shall be cut off from his people; he has broken My covenant."
NAS

[Endurance]

So you call me carnal because I disagree with your interpretation of Scripture.

Show me where I called you carnal FOR DISAGREEING WITH ME. I have already shown you why I said your THINKING CARNALLY, but you IGNORE WHAT I SAY.

Do you see how you change your position from thread to thread? On the Which Sabbath thread you state that "nothing from the law shall be changed" and then you post that Jesus fulfilled the Law since it foreshadowed Him and therefore we do not need to keep parts of the Law. On this thread you posted:

This is another example of how you completely IGNORE ME. In the qoute you posted I asked a question that you didn't answer then and still probably won't answer.

Correction, I said somethings in the Law were forshadowings that have been fulfilled. YOU REFUSE TO ACCEPT MY WORDS. YOU GIVE THEM YOUR OWN MEANING WITHOUT UNDERSTANDING WHAT I'VE SAID. WHICH IS WHY I SAID LET'S AGREE TO DISAGREE.

As far as nothing being changed, I clarified what I meant by that in this thread. If you stop focusing so much on trying to make me look like a hypocrite, and start understanding the points I'm making. Our conversations wouldn't be as they are. Now let's look at me elaborating:

This is what I'm talking about, the spirit of the law. Christ being our passover for example is the spirit of the law. Him being our tabernacle and bread is the spirit of the law. We still eat the unleavened bread (follow the law) it is just that Christ is our bread (according to the spirit of the law) rather than actual bread (according to the letter of the law)

The spirit of the law (grace) is not contrary to the letter. This is the overall point that I'm making when I say that the law has not changed. That the spirit of the law is not contrary to the letter of the law. IF they speak not according to the law and the testimony, there is no light in them. That is because if you speak of the spirit of the law (testimony) it is not contrary to the law, but it establishes it, as Paul confirms Rom 3:31.

This is our cycle and the reason that I wish to end this debate though you wish to keep trying your best to show fault in what I'm saying. You say I said something. Then I have to go back and post what I said and show you HOW YOU ARE ADDING TO MY WORDS AND TWISTING WHAT I'M SAYING. Of course my words will contradict itself, if you don't ACCEPT WHAT I'M SAYING, but rather, GIVE THEM A DIFFERENT MEANING.

You have posted that Jesus fulfilled the Law, and then use 1 John 3:4 to show that transgressing the law is sin. If the Law has been fulfilled in one Man how can we transgress that Law?

STOP ADDING TO MY WORDS AND TWISTING WHAT I'M SAYING. I said SOME THINGS WERE FORESHADOWINGS. And shown how those things are still being kept in spirit.

If your only basis for advocating that Galatians 5:1 introduces vs. 2 is the chapter divisions found in modern Bibles you need to know these divisions are arbitrary man made divisions. Galatians 4 is dealing with the law as a whole and 5:1 is the logical conclusion of this discussion since in Galatians 5:2 Paul addresses a specific requirement found in the law that actually preceded the Law by over 400 years. Abraham was the person who received God’s command to be circumcised.

STOP MAKING ASSUMPTIONS. WHEN DID I SAY THAT VERSE IS INTRODUCTORY TO VERSE TWO. It is a letter. Since it is a letter, it is a whole piece. I said:

Well we disagree there too. I don't believe that verse 1 is one topic and the second is something completely new.

Where did I say verse 1 introduces two. YOU MAKE ASSUMPTIONS and think they are truth, but they are YOUR OWN PERSONAL ASSUMPTIONS or what you call the "LOGICAL ANSWER." God's word is not understood by logical interpretations, but it is understood by grace. The knowledge is given and not deciphered by man.

Love Always,