Why where we (humans) created?

[Jameel]

I've been thinking about this a lot lately. Why humans where created? I was hoping that someone (muslim or christian can shed some light).

Why is Allah putting us through this (brith, life, death, afterlife, hell, heaven). Why where we created in the 1st place?

Is it fair that somebody is born with a handicap or a disease while others are healthy. Or one person is born into a rich family and another born into a poor family.

Also about Adam and Eve, isn't it kind of unfair that we have to pay for the mistake of 1 human many thousands of years ago. It's like saying my grandfather committed a crime went to jail, but my dad is still in jail, I am in jail, my kids will be in jail and so on... It doesn't seem fair to me! Yes I know, as muslim's, we can do good deeds and follow the 5 pillars of islam as our path to salvation, but why didn't Allah give me and other humans the option of starting in heaven and if I didn't follow his rules banish us to earth. Why are we all paying for Adam's mistake.

Don't get me wrong I am a believer, I believe in Allah, angels, heaven, Shaytan, jinn and hell. But I was just hoping somebody could answer my questions. Thank you!

[Alpha]

We can only speculate on this, for God's ways are not ours. But one explanation can be to test our hearts. It would not be much of a test if we were just put in heaven and be spoon fed. God is concerned with our hearts. And He wants us to exercise our free will to see if we would choose Him despite our pain and suffering.

Job 13:15 > Though He slay me, yet will I trust Him. Even so, I will defend my own ways before Him.

*Note: Job was rebuked by God in the end for comments such as the unbolded sayings in that verse.

[Aburaees]

We can only speculate on this, for God's ways are not ours. But one explanation can be to test our hearts. It would not be much of a test if we were just put in heaven and be spoon fed. God is concerned with our hearts. And He wants us to exercise our free will to see if we would choose Him despite our pain and suffering.

Job 13:15 > Though He slay me, yet will I trust Him. Even so, I will defend my own ways before Him.

*Note: Job was rebuked by God in the end for comments such as the unbolded sayings in that verse.

I understand Jameel's question, I think.

When we're at school and our class has a science exam, we all sit the same test and we all get the same length of time to complete the test.

But in our test on Earth, we don't sit the same test and we don't have the same length of time to sit it.

Some of us have 85 years to turn to God, whilst others have only 15. Some of us are tested more harshly than others, some of us live and die miserably and in pain and others live and die happily.

Indeed this does not seem fair.

Some of us will have hell on Earth and hell after Earth...

Some of us will have hell on Earth and heaven after Earth...

Some of us will have heaven on Earth and hell after Earth...

And some of us will have heaven on Earth and heaven after Earth.

Indeed this does not seem fair.



Some of us search hard for God, and never find him...

Some of us search hard for God, and find him...

Some of us don't search for God, and never find him...

And some of us don't search for God, and find him anyway...

Indeed this does not seem fair.



I wish I had faith.

.

[Aburaees]

We can only speculate on this, for God's ways are not ours. But one explanation can be to test our hearts. It would not be much of a test if we were just put in heaven and be spoon fed. God is concerned with our hearts. And He wants us to exercise our free will to see if we would choose Him despite our pain and suffering.

Job 13:15 > Though He slay me, yet will I trust Him. Even so, I will defend my own ways before Him.

*Note: Job was rebuked by God in the end for comments such as the unbolded sayings in that verse.

I understand Jameel's question, I think.

When we're at school and our class has a science exam, we all sit the same test and we all get the same length of time to complete the test.

But in our test on Earth, we don't sit the same test and we don't have the same length of time to sit it.

Some of us have 85 years to turn to God, whilst others have only 15. Some of us are tested more harshly than others, some of us live and die miserably and in pain and others live and die happily.

Indeed this does not seem fair.

Some of us will have hell on Earth and hell after Earth...

Some of us will have hell on Earth and heaven after Earth...

Some of us will have heaven on Earth and hell after Earth...

And some of us will have heaven on Earth and heaven after Earth.

Indeed this does not seem fair.



Some of us search hard for God, and never find him...

Some of us search hard for God, and find him...

Some of us don't search for God, and never find him...

And some of us don't search for God, and find him anyway...

Indeed this does not seem fair.



I wish I had faith.

.

[Truth Seeker-Joshua]

Peace all...

Greetings Jameel. I realize that your a mus1im, but I hope these verses can help with your questions.

Isaiah 45:18 For this is what the LORD says-He who created the heavens, He is God; He who fashioned and made the earth, He founded it; He did not create it to be empty, but formed it to be inhabited-He says: "I am the LORD, and there is no other".

Acts 17:26 From one man He made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and He determined the times set for them and the exact places where they should live.

Ephesians 1:4-5 For He chose us in Him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in His sight. In love He predestined us to be adopted as His sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with His pleasure and will.

James 1:18 He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all He created.

Jesus is Lord
Peace and Godspeed
Pray for Israel

[Jameel]

Aburaees, that is part of it. Why are some people tested in different ways. A test should be fair and just. Like you said when you are in school, you are tested on material you have been given. A teacher would not expect you to know a subject you've never studied.

Truth Seeker-Joshua, I appreciate the verses.

It still doesn't expalin why we where created. Why would Allah need to create us (humans), to worship him. Why make us (humans), period?!

2nd about Adam, Why does Allah still punish us by putting each new human on this earth. Why are we paying for Adams mistake!? That doesn't seem fair.

Can nobody give me an answer to my questions?!

[Truth Seeker-Joshua]

Peace all..

To Adam he said, "Because you listened to your wife and ate from the tree about which I commanded you, 'You must not eat of it,' "Cursed is the ground because of you; through painful toil you will eat of it all the days of your life. 18 It will produce thorns and thistles for you, and you will eat the plants of the field. 19 By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food
until you return to the ground, since from it you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you will return." 20 Adam named his wife Eve, because she would become the mother of all the living.
21 The LORD God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife and clothed them. 22 And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever." 23 So the LORD God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken. 24 After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.

Jameel, you have to remember. Adam was not just a normal human like you and I. He and Eve were the 1st of the human race. We were meant for much greater things than what had turned out. You can tell that just by the highlighted portion.

Jesus is Lord
Peace and Godspeed
Pray for Israel

[sardab]

Very interesting thread. But, why are humans are so weak and that they falter when they do not understand something? If they really asked for understanding with submission they would get the favour from God.

As for Adam (and Satan). If there was to be injustice it would be Adam and satan who underwent that, not us. God's Will wanted to create this life to test us. And there's no injustice about them too. If Adam and satan would not play their current roles, God would create another Adam and Satan who would act exactly the way Adam and Satan acted, or He would find another way to send us to Earth or would just create us on Earth. God's options never ends and His Will prevails. So we are not actually suffering their sins in any way.

As for difference in creation. Firstly, ( Jameel will understand this) do you know the stroy of Hedher and Elyas. We cannot directly know God's Will. There might be evil which is seen as good, and good which is seen as evil.

If God created me handicapped I should wonder why God created me that way? What is His Wish for me? Did He spare me by creating so? If I was a normal person would I be a pervert? If I had normal hands, would I be a thief? I should be patient and still thankful God that He created me handicapped, and He will pay me back in the Heaven if I can be patient and content with His Will.

And yet another question. If only Muslims will be saved, what about those born in Christian, Jewish or other lands? Most of them turn out to be Christians, Jews and other religions as their parents.

The answer: If only Muslims will be saved, then a person who dies as a non-Muslim on a non-Muslim land would not die as a Muslim even if he was in Muslim land. If a person will die as a Muslim, he will die as a Muslim no matter where he is born.

God is not unjust but He knows everyones fate in any setting. And he creates mankind in accordance with His sunnetullah that there's meaningful sociology of people.

You make class anology. I'll make another in this context. If there are 100 students and you are to make 4 classes of 25 students, what is the best way to distribute them? Possibly a test that will measure their level and then they will distributed according to their success in the test.

So, God makes a similar thing, but He need not make that test. He knows everything about us. But He does not draw barriers between the classes. Then how would Christianity or Islam spread in masses.

Finally, if soul X will be a submissive servant, he will be saved whether he is born Y way or Z way, or born in A land or B land. If he will go against God, no place or creation can save him.

Just submit to God.

[Jameel]

Very interesting thread. But, why are humans are so weak and that they falter when they do not understand something? If they really asked for understanding with submission they would get the favour from God.

Yah I know, we, are weak. So why did Allah create us, does this mean that our path / fait is set and we have no actual control over it, because we are going to commit sin(s).

As for Adam (and Satan). If there was to be injustice it would be Adam and satan who underwent that, not us. God's Will wanted to create this life to test us. And there's no injustice about them too. If Adam and satan would not play their current roles, God would create another Adam and Satan who would act exactly the way Adam and Satan acted, or He would find another way to send us to Earth or would just create us on Earth. God's options never ends and His Will prevails. So we are not actually suffering their sins in any way.

How can you not see the injustice right here on earth, or that fact that we have been banished on earth as a result of Adam’s sin. Why should we have to pay for his mistake? Maybe if I was in heaven and Allah told me don’t eat from this tree, maybe I wouldn’t have.

It seems that Allah has created us for his amusement. Why else would you create beings (humans) that have an inherent flaw which causes us to commit sin.

If God created me handicapped I should wonder why God created me that way? What is His Wish for me? Did He spare me by creating so? If I was a normal person would I be a pervert? If I had normal hands, would I be a thief? I should be patient and still thankful God that He created me handicapped, and He will pay me back in the Heaven if I can be patient and content with His Will.

Does that mean the fact that I am not handicapped and I don’t practice my religion that I will go to hell. Is that fair to me?! I think not. Again it goes back to the Adam thing, why did he give Adam the choice to start off in heaven yet we are not given a choice. It seems like an unfair test. If I was shown heaven, like Adam was, you better believe it I would do everything in my power to get back to it. Yet we (humans not including Jesus and Adam) have not been shown heaven, so how can he expect us to follow blindly. Allah’s testing system seems unfair to me.

And yet another question. If only Muslims will be saved, what about those born in Christian, Jewish or other lands? Most of them turn out to be Christians, Jews and other religions as their parents.

The answer: If only Muslims will be saved, then a person who dies as a non-Muslim on a non-Muslim land would not die as a Muslim even if he was in Muslim land. If a person will die as a Muslim, he will die as a Muslim no matter where he is born.

God is not unjust but He knows everyones fate in any setting. And he creates mankind in accordance with His sunnetullah that there's meaningful sociology of people.

You make class anology. I'll make another in this context. If there are 100 students and you are to make 4 classes of 25 students, what is the best way to distribute them? Possibly a test that will measure their level and then they will distributed according to their success in the test.

So, God makes a similar thing, but He need not make that test. He knows everything about us. But He does not draw barriers between the classes. Then how would Christianity or Islam spread in masses.

Finally, if soul X will be a submissive servant, he will be saved whether he is born Y way or Z way, or born in A land or B land. If he will go against God, no place or creation can save him.

Just submit to God.

You make good points. But the way Allah is testing us compared to Adam is unfair. Adam knows heaven exists (without a shadow of a doubt), we have to go on blind faith. 2nd, like I’ve said before, why didn’t Allah give me or us the opportunity to start off in heaven and then get banished to earth if we commit a sin? Again unfair testing, you wouldn’t have that in school. A teacher would never allow student “A” to have his book during a test, while student “B” had to memorize everything, correct? Yet Allah is doing the same thing!



On a side note, I don’t want you or anybody on the board to think I’m not a believer. I truly, believe, in Allah, heaven, hell and Satan.

[sardab]

On a side note, I don’t want you or anybody on the board to think I’m not a believer. I truly, believe, in Allah, heaven, hell and Satan.

Jameel, so you think God is unjust, but believe in Him because you have no choice? This is not a right way of understanding His Will and creation. But I guess it is better than not believing at all.

In understand your point. You say, if you were in place of Adam, you maybe would not commit that sin and mankind would not perish on Earth.

1) Man’s being on Earth has nothing to do with sin of Adam. Sin of Adam is just a matter between Adam and God. God would send us to Earth in any case, it is just that He chose this design.

2) Would heaven be really a favor? Who knows? It was not a favour for satan.

3) You think it would be fair if everyone passed the same test. That would be a monotous life, but never mind. Think this: If you take a group of same IQ people and give them a material they can all understand and make a test. Will they all score same? They would not. What would make the difference? Their commitment would make difference.

So committment would be an objective criterion for success. With commitment people with less IQ can score better indeed.

4) When creatures with Will are concerned, the objective criterion would be submission. You speak about blind faith without seeing the Heaven. Did that make any good for satan? Satan perished not because of lack of sight of God’s signs, but because lack of submission to God’s Will.

5) Now I tell you, if you were to be put to the same test like Adam, at the end you would not score any better or worse than you will do in this setting of yours. For God it is submission that matters. Submission is the objective scoreboard. The issue is not whether you will eat the apple or not, the real issue is where you will end up in the hereafter.

Thats because it is not the amount of prayers or number of days you fasted that will save you. Only your submission can save you and only if you submit to God your deeds are accepted.

6) If God gave you less than others, He will expect less deeds than others....less prayers, less charity...But He will expect the same full submission to His Will.

7) As for poor and handicapped, do not let satan deceive you with a wicked version of emotion of justice and mercy. We have to feel the mercy toward those in need and help them but this finds its true meaning if it is in the name of God. Do not pretend to be more just and merciful than God, for you cannot be.

Notice the relativity in perspective. There are people in worse conditions than you, but also there are people in much better position than you. It might just be that those people would consider your life desperate. Do you feel desperate? Ask a poor or handicapped if he really feels desperate and abondoned by God. I know poor and handicapped people who are firm in their faith of God and live a happy life. Do not invent conjectures in their name, just treat them with respect and love as God orders you to do.

If your neighbour is really poor, both you and they are tested. It is just that you are on different sides of the test. You have to look after them and share what you have as prescribed by God, and they have to be content with what they have. Relating back to to topic, if you had changed places that would not actually affect your fate, because you cannot submit in a position more or less than you would do in another position. And in this specific case, health and wealth cause no less problems than lack of them, as far as our fate in the hereafter is concerned. How do you know that we, in the herafter, will not say "if only we had not been given what God has given to us"?

8- Variety and richnness in life are manifestations of His Names and Divine Attributes. Nothing unjust about it.

9) If you ask these questions for understanding it is ok. But if you will go against God’s will, do not make His design a pretext of your rebellion, because that would be the real injustice.

wassalam...

[Jameel]

Jameel, so you think God is unjust, but believe in Him because you have no choice?

I do believe in Allah, without a shadow of a doubt. And I know I'll most likely go to hell for my sins. I'm not doubting that for 1 second.

1) Man’s being on Earth has nothing to do with sin of Adam. Sin of Adam is just a matter between Adam and God. God would send us to Earth in any case, it is just that He chose this design.

I understand what you are saying, not matter what we would have been put on earth. So why put Adam and Eve in heaven and tell them not eat from the tree, etc... why not just put them on earth?

In the end my big question is this, WHY WHERE WE CREATED? I just want to know this.

2) Would heaven be really a favor? Who knows? It was not a favour for satan.

Satan choose not to submit. That's what it means for each individual (human or Jinn) to have free choice. Let's take our school example, would you fail an entire class because 1 person cheated on their exam? NO! You would only fail that person. The rest would be allowed to continue attending the class.

3) You think it would be fair if everyone passed the same test. That would be a monotous life, but never mind. Think this: If you take a group of same IQ people and give them a material they can all understand and make a test. Will they all score same? They would not. What would make the difference? Their commitment would make difference.

No I don't think it would be a good idea if each person passed the test or they would all score the same. But it would be nice if each person was given the same opportunity as everybody else in the class to study and learn the material, correct? You wouldn't tell 1 person you can look at the answers to the questions on a test but not allow the rest of the students to look at the answers. Yet that's what we have to do, in our life and faith.

Adam and Eve saw heaven, but they choose to listen to the devil and they got punished. Why do we (the rest of mankind) have to pay for that.

4) When creatures with Will are concerned, the objective criterion would be submission. You speak about blind faith without seeing the Heaven. Did that make any good for satan? Satan perished not because of lack of sight of God’s signs, but because lack of submission to God’s Will.

Satan was an idiot, for not listening to Allah and putting his ego aside. That's his fault and problem. But yet we have to pay for it.

5) Now I tell you, if you were to be put to the same test like Adam, at the end you would not score any better or worse than you will do in this setting of yours. For God it is submission that matters. Submission is the objective scoreboard. The issue is not whether you will eat the apple or not, the real issue is where you will end up in the hereafter.

You are correct I don't know if I would have passed or failed the test.

6) If God gave you less than others, He will expect less deeds than others....less prayers, less charity...But He will expect the same full submission to His Will.

That's not entirely true, Allah expects less Zakat if you are poor, but the same amount of prayers.

7) As for poor and handicapped, do not let satan deceive you with a wicked version of emotion of justice and mercy. We have to feel the mercy toward those in need and help them but this finds its true meaning if it is in the name of God. Do not pretend to be more just and merciful than God, for you cannot be.

I have never ever stated that I am more just or merciful than god. And I would never say such a blasphemous thing.

Do not invent conjectures in their name, just treat them with respect and love as God orders you to do.

I do, I never look down at anybody and I never look up at anybody. We are all created equal.

9) If you ask these questions for understanding it is ok. But if you will go against God’s will, do not make His design a pretext of your rebellion, because that would be the real injustice.

That's exactly what these questions are meant for, understanding Why? Why we were created? Why were we given free will? Why is it fair that somebody is born with a chronic deblitating diseas, yet I am healthy? Why is Bill Gates given a brain to invent something which makes him the richest man on earth, yet a single mom with 2 kids has to work 2 jobs or be on welfare to survive.

I'm not using his design as a pretext for my rebellion. I know the sins I've committed are a result of decisions and actions I have made in my life. And I will have to pay for those sins.

[sardab]

Jamel I'm saying once again. We are not here because of Adam, we are here because of God's Will.

2:30 Behold, thy Lord said to the angels: "I will create a vicegerent on earth." They said: "Wilt Thou place therein one who will make mischief therein and shed blood?- whilst we do celebrate Thy praises and glorify Thy holy (name)?" He said: "I know what ye know not."

Adam and satan are just parts of His design.

Allah created the creatures with mind because he wished to be known, and He created the creatures with "will", because He wished to be submitted to. Submission finds its true meaning with free choice.

[sardab]

I guess I understand you better now. You do not ask the reasons why you were created actually. You do not care for the reasons. You do not care for heaven or hell. You would not wish to be created and take the burden of living, in the first place?

I think you are not the first to have that feeling. Phiolosophy calls that existential anxiety. I do not know if philosophers offer a cure for that. But Muslim sufis have interesting perspectives.

There's an imminent reality about creation and one ultimate reality. We all came from God, he breathed unto us from His Soul. So the imminent reality is "seperation." We are seperated from God, the Beloved One.

But we will turn back to Him. So the ultimate reality is Unity. Sufis teach that we should not be (dis)illusioned by the seperation. In everthing, it is God who is acting and who should be perceived behind.

Sufis teach you to see the spiritual joy in living when you leave youself to God. If He sends a trouble accept it by joy, if He sends a favor accept it by joy, because both comes from the Beloved. He will turn evil into good ultimately.

This little poem gives the gist.

Haqq turns evil into good
Do not think he neglects
Aref watches this in wonder

Let's see what He does
It is beatiful whatever He does

If You send grace of Your Jamal
Or suffering from Your Jalal
Both we accept with joy

Let's see what He does
It is beatiful whatever He does

Ibrahim Hakki Erzurumi

Haqq: God, Truth
Aref: Wise
Jamal: Mercy and Beauty of God
Jalal: Wrath of God

Wassalam...

[Jameel]

Jamel I'm saying once again. We are not here because of Adam, we are here because of God's Will.

2:30 Behold, thy Lord said to the angels: "I will create a vicegerent on earth." They said: "Wilt Thou place therein one who will make mischief therein and shed blood?- whilst we do celebrate Thy praises and glorify Thy holy (name)?" He said: "I know what ye know not."

I don’t claim to fully understand what the above sura says (that’s probably why I haven’t read the quran). But kind of understand. Regardless of what happened between Adam and Satan, it has been our destiny to inhabit earth. So I guess it’s irrelevant to ask why Adam was chosen to be in start off in paradise, we have to start of on earth. Because we don’t know Allah’s will, correct?

Allah created the creatures with mind because he wished to be known, and He created the creatures with "will", because He wished to be submitted to. Submission finds its true meaning with free choice.

I hope this is not Haram (blasphemous) to say, but doesn’t that seem a little egotistical to you? Why would an omnipotent, omnipresent, all knowing being, such as Allah, need to be worshiped and submitted too. Only egotistical, insecure beings need to be submitted to and worshiped. Right?

I guess I understand you better now. You do not ask the reasons why you were created actually. You do not care for the reasons. You do not care for heaven or hell. You would not wish to be created and take the burden of living, in the first place?

Actually I do ask the reason why we where created? But only Allah knows that!

EXACTLY! I was not given a choice. Had I never been born I would not know.

But now that I am born and I have a brain and a soul, I want to go to heaven. I know, kind of selfish, but that is human nature!

I think you are not the first to have that feeling. Phiolosophy calls that existential anxiety. I do not know if philosophers offer a cure for that. But Muslim sufis have interesting perspectives.

There's an imminent reality about creation and one ultimate reality. We all came from God, he breathed unto us from His Soul. So the imminent reality is "seperation." We are seperated from God, the Beloved One.

Doesn’t that mean that God is just “toying” with us and created us for his own amusement?

Why create beings, then separate - them Allah and the heavens - for their life on earth, then punish them in the grave, then you have to wait 50,000 years in the Judgment day “lines” (until your turn is up to go in front of god), then if you are bad go to hell, serve your time, then eventually end up in heaven. Since Allah is merciful why not just keep us in heaven and while we are in heaven, he shouldn’t set any rules for us. Everything would be fine. There would be no war, no death, no separation from Allah or our family, no famine, no murder, and any millions of other things that we (humans) have to suffer through!

Can you see my point on all this? Maybe I’m not explaining my self clear enough. Basically it’s like this, why create beings and put them through tests and misery, when you have the power not to.

[sardab]

I don’t claim to fully understand what the above sura says (that’s probably why I haven’t read the quran). But kind of understand. Regardless of what happened between Adam and Satan, it has been our destiny to inhabit earth. So I guess it’s irrelevant to ask why Adam was chosen to be in start off in paradise, we have to start of on earth. Because we don’t know Allah’s will, correct?

You are correct. But I also say difference in our tests is not injustice, because Allah looks at the sincerity and commitment (submission.)

I hope this is not Haram (blasphemous) to say, but doesn’t that seem a little egotistical to you? Why would an omnipotent, omnipresent, all knowing being, such as Allah, need to be worshiped and submitted too. Only egotistical, insecure beings need to be submitted to and worshiped. Right?

I guess if something should be egoistic it might be what you say. When you are a teacher you expect students obey you, when you are a boss you expect workers obey you, when you are a father you expect your family obey you....but when it comes to God, you want Him not to expect obedience from you.

This about "order" brother...if things were not the way they were created...there would be no life whatsoever...

Since Allah is merciful why not just keep us in heaven and while we are in heaven, he shouldn’t set any rules for us. Everything would be fine. There would be no war, no death, no separation from Allah or our family, no famine, no murder, and any millions of other things that we (humans) have to suffer through!

Can you see my point on all this? Maybe I’m not explaining my self clear enough. Basically it’s like this, why create beings and put them through tests and misery, when you have the power not to.

Actually, there are allready creatures in the heavens, in the paradise, in the hell...They do have minds perhaps but they do not have will or nafs..so they do not get a taste of heaven or suffer hell...that is a privilege given to us...

We should work and deserve Heaven...you say it seems selfish to be put to test...but why it is not selfish to expect to be put into paradise without deserving it? Which is selfish in fact?

God gave you an invaluable creation and an invaluable chance...Just do not lose your chance...thats all I can say on this issue..

wassalam...

[Jameel]

I guess if something should be egoistic it might be what you say. When you are a teacher you expect students obey you, when you are a boss you expect workers obey you, when you are a father you expect your family obey you....but when it comes to God, you want Him not to expect obedience from you.

This about "order" brother...if things were not the way they were created...there would be no life whatsoever...

True, you expect your kids to obey you, you are expected to obey your boss, you are expected to obey your teacher. But don’t create a race of beings (humans and jinn), give them free will and then expect them to worship you and if they don’t you punish them. Allah created the angels to obey his every command.

I don’t know if you have kids (I don’t), but would you think. Oh, I’m going to create children so they can worship me and submit to me and follow every command I ask of them? No of course not!

God gave you an invaluable creation and an invaluable chance...Just do not lose your chance...thats all I can say on this issue..
wassalam...

I don’t know much about the Qur’an, but from what I do know, even though I’ll go to hell; Once my time has been served I’ll be sent to heaven. Correct? And that holds true from every human. It’s no different then Jail, you go to jail, serve your time and then you are set free!

[Alpha]

True, you expect your kids to obey you, you are expected to obey your boss, you are expected to obey your teacher. But don’t create a race of beings (humans and jinn), give them free will and then expect them to worship you and if they don’t you punish them.

But despite the fact many know their child(ren) would go through suffering, they still go ahead and have them anyway. Before my parents had me, they knew I was going to suffer in some way and one day die, but they had me anyway, because it is better to have and lose, than to not have at all. So even by this standard, by God knowing some people are going to hell, who is man to say whether or not He is justified by His actions?

I don’t know much about the Qur’an, but from what I do know, even though I’ll go to hell; Once my time has been served I’ll be sent to heaven. Correct? And that holds true from every human. It’s no different then Jail, you go to jail, serve your time and then you are set free!

If this is the case, you might as well become a Christian and play it safe.

[Jameel]

But despite the fact many know their child(ren) would go through suffering, they still go ahead and have them anyway. Before my parents had me, they knew I was going to suffer in some way and one day die, but they had me anyway, because it is better to have and lose, than to not have at all. So even by this standard, by God knowing some people are going to hell, who is man to say whether or not He is justified by His actions?

Fair enough, but your parent's didn't create you so you can worship them and submit to them, right? But that's why god created us!

If this is the case, you might as well become a Christian and play it safe.

I could never become a Christian, I don’t believe in Trinity. I would never accept God (all mighty) came down to earth, became an animal (human) let him self be killed and then went to heaven. What kind of story is that! I might as well be an atheist.

Plus, what’s up with your priests’ and nuns’ not able to marry?

[Alpha]

Fair enough, but your parent's didn't create you so you can worship them and submit to them, right? But that's why god created us!

O.K.

I could never become a Christian, I don’t believe in Trinity. I would never accept God (all mighty) came down to earth, became an animal (human) let him self be killed and then went to heaven. What kind of story is that! I might as well be an atheist.

I guess the kind of God you believe in is a rough leather wearin, spike shoulderin...whatever-in kind of God. While we Christians believe in a gentle, heart warming, merciful (though just) God. Who did not have to, but did humble Himself to become like one of us and give up His life. And please do not respond to the former part of this post by saying "God does not wear leather" because I was obviously using figurative language.

Plus, what’s up with your priests’ and nuns’ not able to marry?

If this is the case, then do not become one. (P.S. there are many priests who are married).

[Jameel]

I guess the kind of God you believe in is a rough leather wearin, spike shoulderin...whatever-in kind of God. While we Christians believe in a gentle, heart warming, merciful (though just) God. Who did not have to, but did humble Himself to become like one of us and give up His life. And please do not respond to the former part of this post by saying "God does not wear leather" because I was obviously using figurative language.

Thanks for clearing up your figurative sarcastic remarks, I appreciate it! But please, don’t draw me into this discussion about your God is different than our God. Your God is more merciful, than mine, etc… It’s the same God.

If this is the case, then do not become one. (P.S. there are many priests who are married).

I thought they couldn't get married? You learn something new everyday!

[Alpha]

It’s the same God.

This is also another discussion.

[Jameel]

It’s the same God.

This is also another discussion.

How come we (Muslims) can accept that he is the same god, but you (Christians) guys can't?! But you are right that is a different discussion!

[Aburaees]

It’s the same God.

This is also another discussion.

And here is the latest on that discussion;

http://www.jesus-christ-forums.com/home/viewtopic.php?t=6629

[galaxy]

It’s the same God.

This is also another discussion.

And here is the latest on that discussion;

http://www.jesus-christ-forums.com/home/viewtopic.php?t=6629

Worthwhile thread to visit, well done.

[H2O]

I've been thinking about this a lot lately. Why humans where created? I was hoping that someone (muslim or christian can shed some light).

The question is too narrow. Why did our Rabb create ? He ceated everything for a pupose according to his divine law and wisdom that we cannot grasp.

Our Rabb created the human race for the same reason he created the Angels, Jinns, and all creatures but to worship and serve him. Each have a duty and purpose in existence.

Why is Allah putting us through this (brith, life, death, afterlife, hell, heaven). Why where we created in the 1st place?

It is his Law. All creatures have to go through birth, life and death, afterlife. Heaven and Hell is the reward for the more favored creatures Men and Jinn whom were gifted with limited free will. He intrusted us with this ability and he will try us with these gifts to demonstrate who is worthy, and grateful. With these gifts came responsability and duty in serving our pupose.

He also created us as a manifestation of his power and wisdom the like of all creation. Look at how you are created and see the wisdom, and the architecture behind every part of your body and be amazed at its purpose that it was given. The same is with us all, we have a purpose.

Is it fair that somebody is born with a handicap or a disease while others are healthy. Or one person is born into a rich family and another born into a poor family.

It is all for trial, for the rich and poor, and to show who is grateful and ungrateful. Human life must have balance in its purpose. The rich cannot be rich unless there is poor, and the poor cannot be poor unless there is the rich. Think of the elements of creation, there is balance. Fire and Ice, Water and Air, positive and negative, death and life, heaven and hell. Everything has its oposite in arabic "azwaj". It is the law our Rabb has made for all his creation. Mankind is part of his creation and thus subject to his laws.

Also about Adam and Eve, isn't it kind of unfair that we have to pay for the mistake of 1 human many thousands of years ago. It's like saying my grandfather committed a crime went to jail, but my dad is still in jail, I am in jail, my kids will be in jail and so on... It doesn't seem fair to me! Yes I know, as muslim's, we can do good deeds and follow the 5 pillars of islam as our path to salvation, but why didn't Allah give me and other humans the option of starting in heaven and if I didn't follow his rules banish us to earth. Why are we all paying for Adam's mistake.

Before Adam was created Allah said to the angels "Innee Jaa'ilun feel'ardhi khaleefah " meaning " Verily I am going to place into the Earth a successor.....". Man was destined by the will of Allah to be here one Earth and not in paradise at that time.

The angels said "ataj'alu feehaa mayyufsidu feehaa wa yasfikud-dimaa,a wa nahnu nusabbihu bihamdika wa nuqaddisu lak" meaning " ....will you place therein one whom will cause mischief therein and shed blood while we glorify you with praises and we sanctify you... ? "

The angels themselves did not know the purpose of the Khalifah that Allah was going to put into the Earth in which Allah replies to the Angels curiosity " innee a'alamu maa laa ta'alamoon " meaning "..Verily I know what you do not know"

We gather many things from these verses from the Quran as to how man came to Earth.

1) It was destined for man to come to earth regardless if he did not approach the tree in which he was commanded not to go near.

2) Man is the successor of another being that dwelt here on Earth that was a mischief maker and blood shedder in which the Angels assumed the Khalifah whould do the same thing being that he would succeed them. The word Khalifah also means "Ruler" or "Vicegerent". Thus man became the succeeding Rulers and Vicegerents of the Earth of those before them.

If man was destined to come to Earth then why was Adam placed into Paradise before coming to Earth ? Thess questions should also be asked "Did not Allah know that Ibliss the cursed Devil was going to trick Adam to violate the Command ? Did not Allah see the whole thing happening ? So why didnt Allah intervene ?

Adam going to paradise first before coming to the Earth as it was decreed for him, was to test Adam. Allah allowing the devil to do what he did was all apart of what Allah had planned so that Adam would become aware of his free will. What other way to understand free will and to disobey other than to experience it ?

However Allah makes it clear that Adam made a mistake, a blunder where as he had forgotten the command and allow the Shaytaan to influence him. Thus, at this time the test was over, all came to the fullfilment of Allah's plan, Adam and his wife was forgiven, now Man is to go to his real home for a time to take on another trial with his new founded abilities.

Jameel I became lengthy on this topic cause your questions reflect Biblical concepts of the fall of Adam that is not taught in the Quran and is apposed to.

Christians believe Jannah (Paradise) as they call the garden of Eden was here on Earth and that Adam's sin cause him to be expelled from it in which mankind are inheriters of that sin until they except Jesus as Lord.

Muslims believe Jannah (Paradise) or The Garden of Eden as the people of the Book call it, was not on Earth but in a higher place of existence beyond and above our Earth and Universe. Man coming to Earth was something decreed for him and his mistake was not the cause of it in which he was fogiven for and that was the end of that sin. Man continues to be responsable for his own sins and not the inheriters of the faults of those beofore us.