Women Teaching Men

[compsimp]

Is it every appropriate for women to teach men?

[Truth Seeker-Joshua]

Who ever has the greater knowledge.

I would hope that a women who knew about the gift of Jesus Christ, would teach it to men who didn't know, rather then worry about gender roles.

Of course the run of the mill mus1im would disagree with me.

Peace and Godspeed
Pray for Israel

[compsimp]

Who ever has the greater knowledge.

I would hope that a women who knew about the gift of Jesus Christ, would teach it to men who didn't know, rather then worry about gender roles.

I agree that women should be able to teach men, but do you have any scripture references to back-up your opinion.

Of course the run of the mill mus1im would disagree with me.

Yes most likely. I'm married to a Muslim.

[Truth Seeker-Joshua]

Peace..

Yes most likely. I'm married to a Muslim.

Really cant help you there.

The Bible doesn't give too many accounts of women teaching or testifying the word of Christ.

The Bible, with early Christianity, had a certain amount of shovenism that Christians have studily grown out of.

1slam still has not.

Why don't you read through the book of Ruth in the Old Testement.

Peace and Godspeed
Pray for Israel

[(Omega)]

I agree that women should be able to teach men, but do you have any scripture references to back-up your opinion.

Go ye therefore, and (teach) all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: (Matthew 28:19)

This is the commision of the "Church"(The Body of Christ), are you a member of the Body of Christ?
Theres your answer.

God Bless!

[compsimp]

Why don't you read through the book of Ruth in the Old Testement.

Will do. Thank-you.

[compsimp]

I agree that women should be able to teach men, but do you have any scripture references to back-up your opinion.

Go ye therefore, and (teach) all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: (Matthew 28:19)

This is the commision of the "Church"(The Body of Christ), are you a member of the Body of Christ?
Theres your answer.

God Bless!

In this scripture reference, Jesus is speaking to the eleven disciples. All men.

[compsimp]

I Timothy 2:11-12Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

From the Abingdon Bible Commentary, copyright 1929 on I Timothy 2:11-12Paul shares the thought of his age in relation to women. They are not to aspire to leadership, to preach or to teach or to take precedence over men (vs. 12). This is prudential advice dictated by the needs of the age for the good of the cause, and to be revised when the good of that same cause justifies it. It is to be remembered that Paul employed and commended Priscila, Phoebe and other women helpers. In this letter, he sanctions the employment of deaconesses (3:11) and official-widows (5:9).

I Corinthians 14:34Let your women keep silence in churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.

From the Abingdon Bible Commentary
There are strong reasons for believing that vv. 34, 35, are a later marginal gloss, or an addition to the text by a later writer. For (1) these verses are placed differently in a number of important MSS.; (2) the sequence of thought is interrupted; and (3) the prohibition contradicts 115, 13, where no objection is offered to a woman’s public share in the service of the church, but only to her speaking with head uncovered.

I Peter 3:1Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands…

Note that it says wives are to be in subjection to their own husbands and not all men..

I Peter 3:5
For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands

I Timothy 2:13-14For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

Notice the verses proceeding. It is speaking of a husband and wife not of just any man and woman.

At the time Jesus came on the scene, women were seen as property. He changed the establishment and made women equal with men. In his sight there is no more man nor woman, Jew nor Greek. We are all one in Christ.

[(Omega)]

Hello compsimp!

I agree that women should be able to teach men, but do you have any scripture references to back-up your opinion.

Go ye therefore, and (teach) all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: (Matthew 28:19)

This is the commision of the "Church"(The Body of Christ), are you a member of the Body of Christ?
Theres your answer.

God Bless!

In this scripture reference, Jesus is speaking to the eleven disciples. All men.

The Scriptures you quoted speaks of congregations or Churches, your husband does not belong to a church. Furthermore being subject to your husband does not mean to have your lips sealed in preaching the Gospel. It refers to being in subjection to tasks and duties, Christ was equal with the Father, however subordinate in tasks and voluntarily submitting to His Father, however both declared the "SAME TRUTH".

That is called the "Great Commission", and the disciples were to teach the Gospel to "ALL NATIONS"{pas ethnos}which is every and all types of ethnic background or races, which includes both male and female and excluding nobody. Since the disciples took it to the world to the best of their ability, how else would the Gospel be preached after the disciples ceased to exist? The Disciples were to themselves make "Disciples"(pupils or followers) of Christ, since you fall in that category, you are to teach all(not literally), including men and excluding none.

God Bless!

[compsimp]

Hi Omega!

Furthermore being subject to your husband does not mean to have your lips sealed in preaching the Gospel.

Yes, I agree! I have no problems speaking about Christ to anybody, even my husband.

The reason I brought this subject up is because I have a female Christian friend who said that women who teach men are directly disobeying the Word of God. I disagree and I gave her Biblical reasons for that disagreement, but I wanted to see what other Christians had to say about the issue.

It refers to being in subjection to tasks and duties, Christ was equal with the Father, however subordinate in tasks and voluntarily submitting to His Father, however both declared the "SAME TRUTH".

Thank God for this! I never quite seen it that way. Tasks and duties, hey. That shines new light on the subject of submission for me.

God bless you too and thank-you for the reply

[Aineo]

compsimp, your friend is correct. The Bible plainly states that women are to be subject to men in matters of faith in public. However, private instruction is another issue. There is not a single example in the NT and only 1 or 2 in the OT where women had authority over men. What you quoted from the Abingdon Bible Commentary is an interpretation based on cultural norms that are used to interpret the Scriptures.

[Aburaees]

The Bible plainly states that women are to be subject to men in matters of faith in public.

But if the only competent person available happens to be a woman, surely this must dictate an exception to the general rule?

[compsimp]

Hi Aineo,

There is not a single example in the NT and only 1 or 2 in the OT where women had authority over men.

How about Paul sanctioning the employment of deaconesses in I Timothy 3:11?

What you quoted from the Abingdon Bible Commentary is an interpretation based on cultural norms that are used to interpret the Scriptures.

The Abingdon was copyrighted back in 1929 when the cultural norms were not the same as today (it's an old commentary I found). And, scripture is to be interpreted in light of other scripture. As I pointed out before, immediately following "suffer not a woman to teach" it refers to Adam and Eve husband and wife. Which would be related to the other scripture I pointed out about women being in subjection to their own husbands.

I've also heard from Hank Hannegraf, if you're familiar with him, that in the early church that women would yell across the church to ask their husbands questions. They were out of order. And, these scriptures are referring to the order of worship. Because women are instructed how to pray and prophesy in the context of the worship service.

Do you believe I Timothy 2:11-12 is a exclusive prohibition of women ever teaching men under any circumstance? Like a Bible study for example. It seems there are more Christian women in the church today than men here in America anyway.

[Endurance]

Hi Aineo,

There is not a single example in the NT and only 1 or 2 in the OT where women had authority over men.

How about Paul sanctioning the employment of deaconesses in I Timothy 3:11?

What you quoted from the Abingdon Bible Commentary is an interpretation based on cultural norms that are used to interpret the Scriptures.

The Abingdon was copyrighted back in 1929 when the cultural norms were not the same as today (it's an old commentary I found). And, scripture is to be interpreted in light of other scripture. As I pointed out before, immediately following "suffer not a woman to teach" it refers to Adam and Eve husband and wife. Which would be related to the other scripture I pointed out about women being in subjection to their own husbands.

I've also heard from Hank Hannegraf, if you're familiar with him, that in the early church that women would yell across the church to ask their husbands questions. They were out of order. And, these scriptures are referring to the order of worship. Because women are instructed how to pray and prophesy in the context of the worship service.

Do you believe I Timothy 2:11-12 is a exclusive prohibition of women ever teaching men under any circumstance? Like a Bible study for example. It seems there are more Christian women in the church today than men here in America anyway.

The deaconess is the wife of the deacon friend. If one focuses on doing what God says and communing with Him, then that person will know all things. I would advise that woman to be patient and to wait on God who will instruct her on what is proper and improper for her to do. It is necessary that we follow the spirit rather than our own desires and wants. Many people want to share the gospel so bad that they go off actually thinking that they have been called, but are still babies in the word.

Love Always,

[Aineo]

1 Timothy 2:11-15
11 Let a woman quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness. 12 But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet. 13 For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve. 14 And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being quite deceived, fell into transgression. 15 But women shall be preserved through the bearing of children if they continue in faith and love and sanctity with self-restraint. NAS

Paul is bringing forward the same principles found in the Jewish priesthood, which was also exclusively male. This is God's design, not Paul's and the prohibition is that women are not to have authority over or teach men. Women can have a role within the church as teachers of other women and children.

I think we can look to Acts 18 for some more information on this topic:

Acts 18:24-28

24 Now a certain Jew named Apollos, an Alexandrian by birth, an eloquent man, came to Ephesus; and he was mighty in the Scriptures. 25 This man had been instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in spirit, he was speaking and teaching accurately the things concerning Jesus, being acquainted only with the baptism of John; 26 and he began to speak out boldly in the synagogue. But when Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they took him aside and explained to him the way of God more accurately. 27 And when he wanted to go across to Achaia, the brethren encouraged him and wrote to the disciples to welcome him; and when he had arrived, he helped greatly those who had believed through grace; 28 for he powerfully refuted the Jews in public, demonstrating by the Scriptures that Jesus was the Christ. NAS

Now I may be reading something into this section of Scripture but Luke lists Priscilla ahead of her husband Aquila, which leads to think Priscilla was the one who taught Apollos. However, she was still under submission to her husband. In Paul's epistles he always list Aquila before Prisca. Therefore, in a home Bible study I believe a woman could be a teacher especially if she is more knowledgeable than her husband.

As to 1 Timothy 3 where Paul is discussing deacons and deaconesses, these are servants in the church and the rules concerning teachers would not apply.

Aburaees, I think you have a valid point and we can use the account of Debra (one of the Judges of Israel) for guidance. If the available men are too insecure to assume a leadership role then the women have no choice but to take a leadership role.

[compsimp]

Endurance wrote:

I would advise that woman to be patient and to wait on God who will instruct her on what is proper and improper for her to do. It is necessary that we follow the spirit rather than our own desires and wants. Many people want to share the gospel so bad that they go off actually thinking that they have been called, but are still babies in the word.

The wise thing for any man or woman to do is to wait on the Lord and receive instruction from Him. There are people who sense a call on their life early on, but sometimes jump the gun. Teachers, especially, are held to a higher standard than laymen. And, even teachers need to continue to be students of the Word since none has attained all knowledge, wisdom, and understanding.

Aineo,
I see the balance. Jesus was in no way inferior to the Father yet he submitted totally to Him. And, the head covering of a woman is submission to her husband. But there comes a greater difficulty when the husband is not a Christian and cannot be the spiritual head of the wife.

I Peter 5:5-6
...Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble. Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God that he may exalt you in due time.

[spunky]

The conditions during Pauls writtings were this: The women kept gossiping and poking their husbands during church because they were uneducated and didn't undersand so both parties would walk out not having heard the word. Those conditions no longer exist so neither should the teachings apply.. Women are in no way less adept at teaching then men and I see no reason for them to sit back and wait for men to fail to take their stab at it... in my opinion if being married means I will have to subjugate myself to a man.. I will not marry

[Aineo]

In Genesis we read:

Genesis 3:16

16 To the woman He said,

"I will greatly multiply
Your pain in childbirth,
In pain you shall bring forth children;
Yet your desire shall be for your husband,
And he shall rule over you." NAS

Rabbi’s have taught one meaning of, “Yet your desire shall be for your husband” means women will desire the male’s position in the family and society. However, does God’s word stipulate that women are chattels whose only purpose is to raise children? NO!

Proverbs 31:10-31
10 An excellent wife, who can find?
For her worth is far above jewels.
11 The heart of her husband trusts in her,
And he will have no lack of gain.
12 She does him good and not evil
All the days of her life.
13 She looks for wool and flax,
And works with her hands in delight.
14 She is like merchant ships;
She brings her food from afar.
15 She rises also while it is still night,
And gives food to her household,
And portions to her maidens.
16 She considers a field and buys it;
From her earnings she plants a vineyard.
17 She girds herself with strength,
And makes her arms strong.
18 She senses that her gain is good;
Her lamp does not go out at night.
19 She stretches out her hands to the distaff,
And her hands grasp the spindle.
20 She extends her hand to the poor;
And she stretches out her hands to the needy.
21 She is not afraid of the snow for her household,
For all her household are clothed with scarlet.
22 She makes coverings for herself;
Her clothing is fine linen and purple.
23 Her husband is known in the gates,
When he sits among the elders of the land.
24 She makes linen garments and sells them,
And supplies belts to the tradesmen.
25 Strength and dignity are her clothing,
And she smiles at the future.
26 She opens her mouth in wisdom,
And the teaching of kindness is on her tongue.
27 She looks well to the ways of her household,
And does not eat the bread of idleness.
28 Her children rise up and bless her;
Her husband also, and he praises her, saying:
29 "Many daughters have done nobly,
But you excel them all."
30 Charm is deceitful and beauty is vain,
But a woman who fears the LORD, she shall be praised.
31 Give her the product of her hands,
And let her works praise her in the gates. NAS

This is not a description for a stay at home wife whose duties are limited to mundane housework. Marriage is a partnership, but the man is still head of the house and in God’s economy males are assigned the leadership positions in matters of faith and religious education. When this precept is violated the family and society can suffer.

[spunky]

In that much we are in agreement like that passage that said "husbands love your wives, wives honour your husbands" It doesn't mean men are better just that they have this biological need to feel useful and needed while most women want to be loved and cherised.. i just don't like it! why do men get to be the head? it doesn't seem fair that women (eve) bore the brunt of the punishment but men get rewarded for the same mistake?
What really confused me is that my youth Paster said that if my husband were to tell me to go and kill someone I had to do it cause not obeying my husband was sin and that by me doing it against my will I was showing him greater love and it is through that love that he would see wisdom... this makes no sense to me is not murder the greater sin?

[Aineo]

In that much we are in agreement like that passage that said "husbands love your wives, wives honour your husbands" It doesn't mean men are better just that they have this biological need to feel useful and needed while most women want to be loved and cherised.. i just don't like it! why do men get to be the head? it doesn't seem fair that women (eve) bore the brunt of the punishment but men get rewarded for the same mistake?
What really confused me is that my youth Paster said that if my husband were to tell me to go and kill someone I had to do it cause not obeying my husband was sin and that by me doing it against my will I was showing him greater love and it is through that love that he would see wisdom... this makes no sense to me is not murder the greater sin?

Men get rewarded for the mistake? Now that is a new twist on an old story. At to why God placed men and not women in charge; take it up with God.

As to what your youth pastor told you, he is stark raving mad and should be removed!! "You shall not committ murder" is not a suggestion it is a commandment and no husband has the right or the authority to order his wife to committ a felony.

[compsimp]

Hello Spunky,

The Bible says, "Husbands love your wives as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her." Wives are supposed to submit as unto the Lord.

Husbands must love their wives as Christ loved the church. That is an awesome responsibility. Jesus gave up his life for the church. He served his disciples. Look at his love. Who sacrificed more Christ or the church? Christ indeed. Much more is required of the husband than the wife. I'm thankful I'm a woman. I am to submit to my husband as unto the Lord which means that I do not disobey God in order to submit to my husband.

[spunky]

true, very true compsimp, I'd never thought of it that way before.

and thanks aineo for that murder thing.. that one had me baffled for days!! As for taking it up with God. I think I will

[Madeleine]

Yes, you should love your husband above all others: except God!

If your husband tells you to go and kill someone, but God tells you otherwise, it's better to obey God, hmmmm?

Compsimp has a good point. Christ suffered and died for us. If a man loves me so much he'd die for me if he had to, I doubt I'd have a problem submitting to him.

[Seeker of Truth]

Doesn't it say in Joel in the latter days that God would pour out His spirit upon ALL FLESH and that HIS Sons and HIS Daughters would prophesy and the old men dream dreams.

If the Lord has laid truth upon your heart, if he has filled you with His Spirit, if you have understanding and a burdeon upon your soul that God has put there, then be what the Lord is telling you to be.

Who wants to argue that it is the Latter Days we live in!?!?!?

[compsimp]

Seeker of Truth said:

I consider it the religion of the anti-Christ.


Whenever there is a denial that Jesus Christ came in the flesh, that is the spirit of anti-Christ. So, Islam is not the only faith which that has the spirit of anti-christ.

[Seeker of Truth]

If you read in Revelations about how the False Prophet made war on the woman and her child (this allegorically is Judiasm that gave birth to Christianity) --it is exactly what is happening.

Those who favor Islam alwasys make little of its crimes and the crimes of Islam pile up to the heavens.

Islam is the only religion that would love to force everyone to take a mark so that they could not buy or sell without it. That mark would show that they are Muslims so they could survive. But they have one already now, the mark is indeed where the Bible said it would be, on their forheads, so often on the floor, it has the characteristis of being FLAT.

Islam brags it is the fastest growing religion, fastest birth rate but high attrition rate. If the number of Christians it kills yearly remained alive, it would be interesting to see the difference in the statistics.

Islam is anti everything that is pure and holy in the Gospel, it perverts.

Christ brings life and freedom and prosperity. Islam brings death and slavery and poverty.

Islam is drunk indeed with the death of Christian martyrs and even its own people who willingly blow themselves up to gain Jannah. Jannah, a heaven turned-whore house. This is not heaven. It is disgusting. To be in the presence of God is all glorious. There is no desire for satisfying a body that has been replaced with a perfect one like Jesus has.

[compsimp]

If you read in Revelations about how the False Prophet made war on the woman and her child (this allegorically is Judiasm that gave birth to Christianity) --it is exactly what is happening.

Those who favor Islam alwasys make little of its crimes and the crimes of Islam pile up to the heavens.

Islam is the only religion that would love to force everyone to take a mark so that they could not buy or sell without it. That mark would show that they are Muslims so they could survive. But they have one already now, the mark is indeed where the Bible said it would be, on their forheads, so often on the floor, it has the characteristis of being FLAT.

Islam brags it is the fastest growing religion, fastest birth rate but high attrition rate. If the number of Christians it kills yearly remained alive, it would be interesting to see the difference in the statistics.

Islam is anti everything that is pure and holy in the Gospel, it perverts.

Christ brings life and freedom and prosperity. Islam brings death and slavery and poverty.

Islam is drunk indeed with the death of Christian martyrs and even its own people who willingly blow themselves up to gain Jannah. Jannah, a heaven turned-whore house. This is not heaven. It is disgusting. To be in the presence of God is all glorious. There is no desire for satisfying a body that has been replaced with a perfect one like Jesus has.

I know about Islam.

But all need Jesus.

Go and preach the Gospel making disciples of all nations.

They may fulfill prophecy. They are the descendants of Abraham through Ishmael. And, God indeed fulfills his promises.

The only religion with murder in its plans?

Forty-million unborn children have been murdered in America in the last 30 years by an atheistic agenda. Communism, marxism,...based on atheism. How many were killed? Nazi's based on atheism as well...

Are all atheists murderers...no...

Are all Muslims murderers...no...

My point is ALL people need Jesus. I do and so do you. From greatest to least. Those from every tongue, tribe, nation, religion....etc....

We all need Christ.

Let's preach Christ and let HIM change them as he is changing us into the image of his glorious Son.

[Seeker of Truth]

There are more than one anti-christ and the way is broad that leads to destruction.

But Islam is not to be yawned at. Islam sets itself up as the one and only religion to be tolerated.

I do not yawn at the Armenian genocide, nor the one in Rhuwanda nor the one in the Sudan, the Genocide that has not caused a raised eyebrow because these were the Christians of the Eastern Orthodoxy and not under the Pope. But they named the name of Jesus and they are being systematically killed, churches are being blown up and burned down.

I do not yawn about it. Nor the holocaust of the Jews in Germany.

The Muslim is also the first victim of his own faith and there is much harm that the members of his own faith do in the name of Islam to fellow Muslims.

The Genocide of the unborn babies marks the advent of something important. When the one who is cast out has come down to the earth he goes off to make war on the offspring of the woman (the church) and the woman herself (Israel) because he knows his time is short. When authority changes hands in a lion's tribe there is a slaughter of the innocents. When Jesus was a baby, there was a slaughter also of the innocents as a sign of the change of authority. In Iraq suicide bombers are blowing up women and especially targeting children, even babies. This is because evil is warping men's minds because they have not embraced the truth, and they are deceived. There are many deceptions, again, the way is broad that leads to destruction.

I watch and pray and read and study to know the truth and to point out what is happening around us and how this is an answer to biblical prophecy of the endtimes.

If anything we should be the more diligent in our faith, knowing that the Lord is very near.

[burwelm]

Genesis 3:16 says about women- "thy desire shall be to thy husband and he shall rule over thee."

This was a result of the fall. Because of this women are different than men spiritually. There is a certain area in life that applies to women and not to men. Men are more rational while women are more emotional. Women are kind of competing for the approval of their husband, but men want someone who will accept him as he is. Men aren't as much people pleasers as men. men care more about what they think than what other people think.

I heard some quote the other day that made me think- it is kind of downgrading- but it said- "An umpire is like a woman- he makes snap decisions and never reverses them."

I think there may be some truth to that. I am a female and I do seem to let my passions control me- good ones- instead of me controlling them. Women are alot more intuitite I think. We go by feelings more than information. It is a natural result of being able to have and take care of children.

This is all my theory.

[MagnoliaAngel]

If women werent meant to teach men then why do we have the same spiritual gift of teaching as they do?
If you are taught period--it is mainly from the Holy Spirit,
no matter if you are a woman or not!

[Seeker of Truth]

To me, who I am is internal, not external. and that is not because I am ugly that makes me the person I am. The Bible tells us to cultivate the inner person. And it is a privilege that Jesus bought us to be no longer male nor female but to all be one in Him.

Granted there are a lot of women who enjoy being what one would call "bimbos". How hard is it for anyone to wake up and smell the coffee? All you have to do is to seriously listen to the news and realize that if you have read the Bible at all, we are living in the End Times. No amount of being great as a homemaker and mother is going to keep your children safe in this world anymore. Mothers are the first educator their children ususally have, and throughout life, share that responsibility to raise their offspring to become thinking adults, not just in it for the pleasure, like some beer commercial. Moreover, you don't have to be male to be interested in religion or politics. These two often conflicting ideas control our lives, and if you don't think so, ride public transportation and keep down your adrenaline level. It has to occur to you that it the one sitting down next to you could have more in his backpack than his lunch and school books.

If you know anything about what Muliticulturalism means, it means less rights for women, not more. In Western culture, the benefits of "equality" spoken of towards women in the New Testament have been realilzed to a great extent, only for a new generation which wants to live free of God, to let slip away. Worse yet, in their ignorance, they think that Islam is a religion of peace and love. They know nothing of how it really is for women who live in Muslim countries, and please, don't rain on their parade. It must be a challenge to be a woman in the Middle East, but there are women who are rising to meet the challenge.

If you have worked in a field where many of those doing the same job are male, you know only too well, that equality is just as fair as those around you. And if you are the brunt of "dumb women jokes, dumb blonde jokes, dumb, dumb ......" the list goes on, or the men who love to rag on their wives and you are a woman so you a "guilty". Just what kind of a spiritual life does that man have? People who are happy don't try to lift themselves up by degrading others.

But some may say it is "American Culture", or is it the avoidance of having "culture"? Does a woman not need to read philosophy and poetry and be a musician or artist? Why should she read the Bible when she isn't ever alowed a chance to share her thoughts? Sit and pray that God will drop that wonderful idea in a man's head?

There are many women who have to be their for their sons and daughters because the father works nights, or she is widowed or divorced or married to a man who goes fishing and leaves the kids at home, the only way her boys will learn to throw a baseball and to bat, is if she teaches them. She tells her sons about Jesus and reads the Bible in her family. Because otherwise those kids won't know. It may first be the man's responsiblity, but if weeds grow in her back yard that obscure snakes that can threaten her children and she doesn't take those weeds out, aren't they her weeds too? That is not an emotional decision, that is just plain logic.

Women are good multi-taskers. And are often more compassionate than men are. I clean the house about the same amount now as my family because I work, I didn't used to and I found in my overtiredness, I was getting angry about it how little spare time I have. They have as much opportunity to have self-discipline too. So I spend more time now with my family and less time worrying about the dust bunnies. And more time using my brain because I enjoy that.

Women are as complex as men.

That is if they want to be.

[burwelm]

Galatians 3:28 says that -"There is neither Jew nor greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus."

So I do think that it is okay for men to learn things from women. But, being the leader of the church is a different matter. if there are no men available to be the preacher it would be okay for a woman to take the lead- that is if no man will or can do it. However, 1 Corinthians 11:3 says that:

"the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God."

Then it goes on to say that men should pray without their heads covered but women should pray with their heads covered- I think it is saying the same thing that verses 14 and 15 are saying: "Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair it is a shame unto him? But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for it is given her for a covering"

verses 7-12 say- "For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man. For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man. Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man. For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels. Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord. For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things of God."

This says that the man is the glory of God and the woman is the glory of the man. The man is made in the image of God. The Bible doesn't say that the woman is the image of God or that she is the image of the man. Genesis 1:27- "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them."

Now, spiritually we are all the same- but the physical is nature. Our natures have power over us to some degree and over our thinking and interpretation. ideally, the man should be the leader of the church because that is the way God made us to be naturally. This is just an area that I take by faith- I don't need an explanation. That is what is best. There is no need to try and rebel against the natural order. Women can lead the church- but it is better for the men to lead it if there is a man worthy of leading it.

Of course it could be just my personal preference also. I went to a church once with a female pastor and she just made me cringe. She really got on my nerves because of the air of authority she took on. It just didn't feel right. I see where Paul is coming from.

I think that Bible Studies with women leading them are fine- like Sunday school teachers. But, for a woman to preach- I really don't like the idea. I may be old-fashioned though.

[Seeker of Truth]

I attended a church for a while where the pastor was so hung up on a woman not being able to do anything that he ran one program after another out of his church because unless a man could lead it, it wasn't valid. We lost Awanas, our choir, lots of Bible Studies. It wasn't until he got married that he had the courage to swallow his words, and we got our choir back.

Before he married he started eliminating hymns because he found that many of the hyms had been either composed by women or the lyrics were written by women.

If someone says something that glorifies God, it doesn't matter who says it, it just proves that God is not a respecter of persons. People who write beautiful music and have the gift of composing are a blessing, it is our gift in Christ to be free and to be treated with respect and to show respect.

Jesus pointed out that the Kingdom of heaven is an inner phenomenon. The pharisees looked on the outside, they "washed the outside of the cup, not the inside", they were "whitewashed sepulchres". What happens inside is important.

It is a shame that women can save a man's life in the hospital with a scalpel, and not be allowed to bring a good word.

Is Joel no longer in the Bible, does it still not say that in the latter days God would pour forth His spirit upon all flesh and that His sons and daughters would prophesy? To have the gift of prophecy was the ablity and still is the ability to preach.

I have known many good Christian women, so loving who would give you the shirt off their backs, knew all about acts of kindness, never even allowed to read the scripture aloud, I am not talking preaching. And yet some men who did read from the lecturn were some of the worst examples I have also seen during the week.

I have also seen churches when the majority of those sitting in the pews were women.

When something needs to be done, it is usually the women who get up and do it, raise funds, do what is necessary. And for this they get very little credit, they don't ask for any.

Jesus told us to do like He did and He got up and washed the disciples feet. He spoke out of the fulness of His heart, the relationship He has with the Father. There are many who preach who could take a lesson from those who serve and have done so faithfully. And why? Because Jesus said "follow me" and He did that, He also was obedient until death.

I find it hurtful when a man preaches to those actually putting it into effect, how to really be a servant. Those that faithfully serve, where is the credit they get? In glory.

We take so many of the dear saints for granted. And not to say that it isn't a glorious thing when you see a man really serving God, you know it is the working of God, because this is not a man walking after the flesh. And it is awesome.

I would imagine that all the great things Mary, the mother of Jesus, told the disciples about how the angel had visited her when she learned she was carrying Jesus, and then how they had come to the inn and found no room, I am sure the disciples wanted to hear all she had to say. How else did it get into the New Testament? She could not contain herself. And I am glad she did tell these things, they are inspirational for all time.

The first believers that took no thought of how they might be harmed by the Romans guarding the tomb, were the first to see the risen Lord. Yes, it was traditional for women to annoint the bodies, but they also did it out of love. They couldn't contain themselves for what they saw and experienced.

The men had to see for themselves. Thomas wouldn't believe the men or the women. I guess it was natural not to believe the women. After all, what does a woman know? She knows when something is spilled to get up without asking to clean it up, even if it isn't her house. But this doesn't make her a fool, just kind hearted.

But, there are women who have really half a brain, and you know what, there are men like that too.

Do you suppose that the woman who gets up to preach feels "comfortable"? Women don't want her there and neither do the men. If she is there it is because she believes that God has really called her and that the prophecy in Joel is being fulfilled. Rather a terrible thing to be a Jonah, and end up going to answer your call after being reprimanded.

Whether male of female, if you have a call on your life, do it, like Mary told the servants, "Whatever He says to do, do it", she had faith, but she also wasn't mute. And the water turned into wine and I am glad that miracle is there in the Bible recorded for us. Being a Christian woman is not the gag order some would make it out to be.

You don't know how many times in my life, not being taken seriously has really hurt my feelings. "But women don't have egos", yes they do. And we aren't supposed to hurt "these little ones". Aren't we all children of God?

A woman who dresses like a lady and not in ways to make herself alluring, but it is obvious from her demeanor, that she has a purity about herself, should have something to say to this generation. In case you haven't been to your local mall lately, she has a LOT to say to this generation. How will the upcoming generation learn to be Christian ladies? Many never go to Sunday School.