trinity debate

[kingzson]

Come now Omega "We and us" so you want to argue semantics with His way ok then....Lets discuss New Testament plurals.
Trinitarians emphasize the words we and our in this(John 14:23)and similar verses and argue that those words reveal a plurality of divine persons.
The meaning of John 14:23 is very clear to those who have the onenes key.Matthew 10:20 speaks of the Spirit of the Father,and Galatians 4:6 speaks of the Spirit of the Son,yet there are not 2 Spirits but 1(Ephesians 4:4).The Spirit of the Father is the Spirit of almightiness,the Spirit of power(John 14:10).The Spirit of the Son is the Spirit of priestliness,or the Spirit of obedience and prayer(Galatians 4:6;John 17:1;Hebrews 5:8).THE BELIEVER HAS BOTH ASPECTS IN THE HOLY GHOST. Anything about a believer that speaks of the miraculous or almightiness is (the Spirit of) the Father abiding in him,and anything about a believer that speaks of prayer,submission,obedience or priestliness is (the Spirit of) the Son abiding in him ,yet there is but one Spirit in two aspects.

[Aineo]

Come now Omega "We and us" so you want to argue semantics with His way ok then....Lets discuss New Testament plurals.

Since it is the oneness group who brough semantics into this discussion why be critical of Trinitarians who use "we and us" to show a unity of the Father and the Son as one?

What the oneness group seems to want to avoid is how the NT writers interchanged the same titles of God as Savior with Jesus as Savior and as the one who will judge mankind.

[kingzson]

Aineo quit running interference the Question is to Omega but if you would like to answer stick to the post and if you have an argument refute it.

[kingzson]

Please stick with scripture to refute the post..........refute if you can my points made in the post with scripture.

[kingzson]

If i have misapplied the scripture please show me the error of my ways.
if there is some higher meaning to the scripture's that i have used please elaborate.

[(Omega)]

Ok, kingzson!
Since you failed to carefully read any of my posts in the previous thread of the Trinity Debate in regards to the Distinction of the Father from the Son, and the numerous amount of IRREFUTABLE proof I have presented with the usage of scripture. Your "we" and "us" argument neither disproves or proves the Triune Doctrine. My point is that you might want to re-read what I have posted in my previous responses in the trinity debate and try and refute them, in which I have yet to receive a response. Using one verse to disprove my theology does not work against the irrefutable argument I have presented by scriptural proof. So what does your response prove?

I can use one simple verse to refute you:
Example:
Whom did the Son share His love and Glory with BEFORE the foundation of the world?

John 17:5 - And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine (own self) with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

John 17:24 - Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for (thou lovedst me) before the foundation of the world.

God Bless!

[Aineo]

Aineo quit running interference the Question is to Omega but if you would like to answer stick to the post and if you have an argument refute it.

If you post in a public forum expect anyone to respond. The thread topic is "Trinity Debate" not one-on-one with Omega over semantics.

[kingzson]

Ok Omega lets discuss the Pre-existence of Jesus...Some argue that Christ was Son before Bethlehem because "The Father sent the Son."But John 1:6 says,"There was a man sent from God,whose name was John."By the same reasoning we would be justified in saying that John was man before his birth,which is absurd! Others use the word gave,as in John 3:16,to prove that Christ was the Son before God gave Him to us.But Joseph spoke of the sons God had given him (Genesis 48:9). Were Joseph's children sons before they were born? The truth is that Christ was sent as a man in maturity and not as a child in infancy (John 20:21;Isaiah 61:1;Matthew 21:37).
If the Bible teaches Christ existing as Son prior to Bethlehem then surely it would not be hard to find the Son in existence in the Old Testament,and yet this is something that you will never succeede in doing. Yes the Son is mentioned in the Old Testament, but never as being then in existence. He is prophesied of as coming, which He did at Bethlehem.

[Aineo]

Please stick with scripture to refute the post..........refute if you can my points made in the post with scripture.

Fine, as long as you stick to Scripture instead of wrangling over words.

Isaiah 45:21
21 "Declare and set forth your case;
Indeed, let them consult together.
Who has announced this from of old?
Who has long since declared it?
Is it not I, the LORD?
And there is no other God besides Me,
A righteous God and a Savior;
There is none except Me.
NAS

Titus 1:1-4
1:1 Paul, a bond-servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, for the faith of those chosen of God and the knowledge of the truth which is according to godliness, 2 in the hope of eternal life, which God, who cannot lie, promised long ages ago, 3 but at the proper time manifested, even His word, in the proclamation with which I was entrusted according to the commandment of God our Savior; 4 to Titus, my true child in a common faith: Grace and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Savior. NAS

2 Peter 1:1
1:1 Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, to those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ:
NAS

So who is our Savior, God or Jesus the Messiah?

Romans 2:14-16
14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness, and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus. NAS

2 Timothy 4:1-2
4:1 I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by His appearing and His kingdom: 2 preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great patience and instruction.
NAS

Who is going to judge mankind, God or Jesus the Messiah?

Now if you want to debate semantics you also have to debate how a word is used; by that I mean is the word a noun, verb, pronoun, adverb, conjunction, and etc. bearing in mind that a word can be a noun, a verb, or a adjective based on how the word is used in a sentence. You also need to debate the type of conjunction used in each sentence. “And” is a co-ordinating conjunction and can be used to join two objects together (bread and butter) or 2 adjectives used to describe the same object or person (judge and savior).

[(Omega)]

Ok Omega lets discuss the Pre-existence of Jesus...Some argue that Christ was Son before Bethlehem because "The Father sent the Son."But John 1:6 says,"There was a man sent from God,whose name was John."By the same reasoning we would be justified in saying that John was man before his birth,which is absurd! Others use the word gave,as in John 3:16,to prove that Christ was the Son before God gave Him to us.But Joseph spoke of the sons God had given him (Genesis 48:9). Were Joseph's children sons before they were born? The truth is that Christ was sent as a man in maturity and not as a child in infancy (John 20:21;Isaiah 61:1;Matthew 21:37).
If the Bible teaches Christ existing as Son prior to Bethlehem then surely it would not be hard to find the Son in existence in the Old Testament,and yet this is something that you will never succeede in doing. Yes the Son is mentioned in the Old Testament, but never as being then in existence. He is prophesied of as coming, which He did at Bethlehem.

ANSWER MY QUESTION!
I quoted those "PARTICULAR" Verses for the very reason that PROVES without doubt, pay attention to these verses again:
Prior to Bethlehem and BEFORE THE FOUNDATION of the World are NOT THE SAME! We are not using the word "Sent" here my friend, re-read my post carefully and please do not avoid my IRREFUTABLE argument:

Whom did the Son share His love and Glory with BEFORE the foundation of the world?

John 17:5 - And now, O Father, glorify thou me(with)thine (own self) with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

John 17:24 - Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for (thou lovedst me) before the foundation of the world.

Unless you are trying to tell me Joseph and John shared the Glory and Love with God BEFORE the foundation of the world, the you clearly lost this debate! COMMON SENSE. Am I you and are you me?
And if you want to link the Father to the Divine Spirit and the Son to the Human Spirit then your still trapped, why?

John 17:5 - And now, O Father, glorify thou me{human spirit}(with)thine (own self){Divine Spirit} with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

John 17:24 - Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for (thou{Divine Spirit} lovedst me{Human Spirit}) before the foundation of the world.

Does this make sense to you my friend, does Jesus have a split personality? Common sense, God is not the author of Confusion but have spoken plainly in Scriptures so that A CHILD may understand.

I wonder what other circular logic your going to use to worm your way out.
You lost this debate, be humble and admit it my friend.

God Bless!

[kingzson]

Please Aineo i would like to think you were smart enough to know that in the manuscripts of old there was no punctuation(the act of punctuating : the state of being punctuated 2)the act or practice of inserting standardized marks or signs in written matter to clarify the meaning and separate structural units;also:a system of punctuation)all scripture in the begining had no chapter,verses or punctuation.......all of that was added in later translations by the translators.

[Aineo]

Please Aineo i would like to think you were smart enough to know that in the manuscripts of old there was no punctuation(the act of punctuating : the state of being punctuated 2)the act or practice of inserting standardized marks or signs in written matter to clarify the meaning and separate structural units;also:a system of punctuation)all scripture in the begining had no chapter,verses or punctuation.......all of that was added in later translations by the translators.

However, you are forgetting that we are debating in English, which does have punctuation. Also even Hebrew and Greek have nouns and verbs. So your appeal to ancient languages rings hollow.

Elohiym can be both plural and singular based on tense, which is based on grammatical structure in Hebrew. Are you going to deny you oneness people have appealed to Hebrew grammar to make your points?

[kingzson]

Ok Omega Trinitarians allege that John 17:5 and its context reveal that Christ was the Son before the world was. If this were true, then it would violently contradict all the passages in scripture which teach that the Sonship of our Lord Jesus Christ relates to time and humanity. The true explanation of this verse is simple. Jesus was praying for glorification, which was at that time still future (John 7:39; I Timothy 3:16). Indeed, crucifixion, resurrection, ascension and glorification were all still future when Jesus prayed in John 17. Our Lord indicated in His prayer that in some sense He actually had been glorified in eternity past. What did our Lord mean Omega? He meant that He had been glorified in eternity past as He had been crucified in eternity past( Revelation 13:8). Everything relative to Christ's redemptive work happened in eternity past in the mind of God.
In God's mind, long before the earth was made Jesus was born of a virgin, lived a sinless life, died a vicarious death, had a triumphant resurrection, had a wonderful ascension, and was received up into glory. Our God inhabits eternity and sees the things that are not as though they were. Ephesians 1:4 makes it clear that also before the world was made the church was chosen and purified in Christ. God saw us before Him in love, and yet we did not even exist!!!

[kingzson]

Oh and by the way Omega Oneness theologians understand that John 17:5 refers to the idealic existence of the Son before the foundation of the world, or His existence in God's mind and thought. Obviously the Son did not actually exist before Bethlehem, else we should have no difficulty locating Him as being actually present in the Old Testament and the period it covered.

[Aineo]

Oh and by the way Omega Oneness theologians understand that John 17:5 refers to the idealic existence of the Son before the foundation of the world, or His existence in God's mind and thought. Obviously the Son did not actually exist before Bethlehem, else we should have no difficulty locating Him as being actually present in the Old Testament and the period it covered.

Who did Abraham entertain before the destruction of Sodom and the cities of the plain?

[kingzson]

He is certainly prophesied of in the Old Testament. Always, the Son is the coming One and not the present One. How could the Son have existed in the Old Testament as such when He was made of a women centuries later???(PLEASE ANSWER)(Galatians 4:4). Examples of idealic pre-existence are found in other parts of the Bible(See Romans 4:17 and Jeremiah 1:5).

[kingzson]

That my friend was a theophany God manifested in angelic form.

[Aineo]

That my friend was a theophany God manifested in angelic form.

Prove it by finding the word "theophany" used by any OT writer when referring to Yehova. Also can a "theophany" eat?

Genesis 18:1-8
18:1 Now the LORD appeared to him by the oaks of Mamre, while he was sitting at the tent door in the heat of the day. 2 And when he lifted up his eyes and looked, behold, three men were standing opposite him; and when he saw them, he ran from the tent door to meet them, and bowed himself to the earth, 3 and said, "My lord, if now I have found favor in your sight, please do not pass your servant by. 4 Please let a little water be brought and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree; 5 and I will bring a piece of bread, that you may refresh yourselves; after that you may go on, since you have visited your servant. "And they said," So do, as you have said." 6 So Abraham hurried into the tent to Sarah, and said, "Quickly, prepare three measures of fine flour, knead it, and make bread cakes." 7 Abraham also ran to the herd, and took a tender and choice calf, and gave it to the servant; and he hurried to prepare it. 8 And he took curds and milk and the calf which he had prepared, and placed it before them; and he was standing by them under the tree as they ate.
NAS

[kingzson]

My my aineo I am suprised at you........The Hebrew word Elohim is translated "God" in our Bibles. It indicates a plurality of attributes and not of persons. Baal(Judges 6:31) and Baalzebub (II kings 1:2) are called Elohim but they were not trinities. Great Bible teachers such as Calvin have ridiculed the notion that this word affords any support for a belief in a plurality of divine persons.
Elohim is applied to Christ, thus proving that it does not mean a plurality of persons. A few examples will suffice: Elohim was sold for 30 pieces of silver ( Zechariah 11:4,12,13); Elohim was pierced at Calvary (Zechariah 12:10); Elohim is coming back as King (Zechariah 14:5). Do we think that 3 persons were betrayed, crucified, and are coming again????????????(PLEASE ANSWER)?
The very use of the word Elohim in Scripture proves that by it the sacred writers did not mean 3 divine persons but rather our one Lord Jesus Christ, who has all the attributes of full-orbed deity.

[kingzson]

OK aineo a theopony is an angel and hear is your biblical proof that they eat...........(Genesis 19:1-3.....these angels /theophines ate).

[kingzson]

I do not feel i have answered your question appropriately please allow me to look a little more into it giving it the proper amount of study and research it so deserves.

[Aineo]

However, my dear kingzson I am not suprised by your word games. I referrenced Genesis 18 where LORD is used in place of Yehova and showed that Yehova ate with the angels. You on the other hand have referred to Genesis 19:1-3 where the angels are referred to as lords not "elohiym" or "Yehova" in an attempt to get around my question. The Hebrew word under discussion is Yehova as found in Genesis 18:1 not elohiym. Now can a manifestation or a theophany eat?

the·oph·a·ny ( P ) Pronunciation Key (th-f-n)
n. pl. the·oph·a·nies
An appearance of a god to a human; a divine manifestation.

theophany

n : a visible (but not necessarily material) manifestation of a deity to a human person
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=theophany

Is it your contention that two "gods" were entertained by Lot since a theophany does not apply to angels?

[(Omega)]

kingzson, what part of (WITH) (YOU), (ME) and OWN SELF) do you not understand???
John 17:5 - And now, O Father, glorify thou me(with)thine (own self) with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Try posting the so-called verses that contradict the Triune Doctrine and I will be glad to REFUTE them.

Now for the 3rd time, whom did the Son share the Glory with???

John 17:24 - Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for (thou lovedst me) before the foundation of the world.

Whom was the Son Loved by? Plain english, THOU(YOU) have Loved (ME)!
glorify thou me(with)thine (own self)

What part of "YOU", "ME" and "your OWN SELF" Do you not understand???????????????

You can try as you may to deperately find a way to discard this TRUTH, if you fail to acknowledge this Truth found within these passages CLEARLY describing "Distinct Persons", then the bible has errors! Surely that is not what you are implying is it?

God Bless!

[(Omega)]

Oh and by the way Omega Oneness theologians understand that John 17:5 refers to the idealic existence of the Son before the foundation of the world, or His existence in God's mind and thought. Obviously the Son did not actually exist before Bethlehem, else we should have no difficulty locating Him as being actually present in the Old Testament and the period it covered.

His existence in mind and thought??

John 17:5 - And now, O Father, glorify thou me thine (own self) with the glory which I(Gods mind and thought) had with thee before the world was.

John 17:24 - Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me(Gods mind and thought) before the foundation of the world.

Geez, God reffering to His Mind and Thought as in comparison to "ME", "OWN SELF" and "YOU" makes NO SENSE AT ALL!

What did these theologians "FAIL" to realize?

Matthew 11:25 - At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto (babes).

Unto Babes:{nepios}an infant, little child or one who is untaught or unskilled.

I believe it would be more easier for a child to realize that me and you are not the same person, rather than a mind or thought! THINK ABOUT IT!

God Bless!

[Snipe]

Kingz-


You did your job friend. Let those who do not hear you be, there is nothing more you can do. It is a matter of the heart. All things are revealed in due time. Loved one, you have spoken, let God do the rest. I am not saying I agree with all you say, or disagree with any of it. I have not read it all to fully understand what you are saying. But be at peace friend. You can do nothing for anyone unless God opens their heart.

Friend, please take this as an attempt to edify, but be mature in the Lord. Not going about in endless debates with no progress. Children argue without end. "I know you are but what am I" on and on without end. Do not be this way (not saying you are), but rather after you have tried a few times, shake the dirt off your feet. Once one hears the truth they are responsible for it. If they deny truth, it's their funeral. If they do not, it's beneficial to them. But don't fall into immaturity because you desire one to have understanding.

We both can be on Interstate 95 with the destination being Florida. I may be in Maine while you are in Richmond, yet another is in Georgia. They will arrive at their time, if their heart is pure.

God bless

[(Omega)]

Hello Snipe!

To bicker like children in endless debates and to forbear with another in the quest of truth differ in nature my friend. As far as I am concerned this thread has not been an endless debate. As far as I am concerned it is kingzson who began this thread, As for me I did not begin the debate but entered because I was asked to respond. One must be careful not to quickly shake the dust off of ones feet, furthermore you must be careful in using such statements as"shaking the dust off you feet"
Shaking the dust off your feet is a symbolic act of rejection and condemnation, the idea being that not even the dust of a wicked city was worthy of them. Is that your affection towards your brothers and sisters my friend? A little advice to a man in learning, maybe it was your misusage of scriptures and that your intentions are good, however one must be careful not to abuse the words of the living God.

God Bless!

[Aineo]

Kingz-


You did your job friend. Let those who do not hear you be, there is nothing more you can do. It is a matter of the heart. All things are revealed in due time. Loved one, you have spoken, let God do the rest. I am not saying I agree with all you say, or disagree with any of it. I have not read it all to fully understand what you are saying. But be at peace friend. You can do nothing for anyone unless God opens their heart.

kingzson has posted assumptions based on non-Biblical philosophy and has made statements that are also based on a lack of understanding of words used in Scripture. Assigning a theophany to angels is far from truth.

Maybe you can tell us who Abraham entertained and feed if it was not the pre-incarnate Son Jesus Christ. Or are you oneness people going to ignore that Yehohav walked, talked, and dined with Abraham.

[Snipe]

Aineo-

Friend, you haven't even responded to my post... What you are saying has nothing to do with anything I said...

[Aineo]

Aineo-

Friend, you haven't even responded to my post... What you are saying has nothing to do with anything I said...

Actually I did respond to your post by taking exception to your patting kingzson on the back for posting a bad analogy that is basically a lie. Angels are not "theophanies", or have you missed that kingzson did not respond to my question if he was proposing the angels who visited lot were gods.

[Snipe]

Aineo-

You're funny friend...

[Aineo]

Aineo-

You're funny friend...

So are those who would resort to infantile word games in an attempt to deny what is revealed as truth in the NT. Since you don't see me as responding to your post would you care to explain how 2 angels could be a "theophany"?

I see none of you oneness advocates have responded this post, so before you get sarcastic lets stick to Scripture and not assumptions based on what you want to believe.

Please stick with scripture to refute the post..........refute if you can my points made in the post with scripture.

Fine, as long as you stick to Scripture instead of wrangling over words.

Isaiah 45:21
21 "Declare and set forth your case;
Indeed, let them consult together.
Who has announced this from of old?
Who has long since declared it?
Is it not I, the LORD?
And there is no other God besides Me,
A righteous God and a Savior;
There is none except Me.
NAS

Titus 1:1-4
1:1 Paul, a bond-servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, for the faith of those chosen of God and the knowledge of the truth which is according to godliness, 2 in the hope of eternal life, which God, who cannot lie, promised long ages ago, 3 but at the proper time manifested, even His word, in the proclamation with which I was entrusted according to the commandment of God our Savior; 4 to Titus, my true child in a common faith: Grace and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Savior. NAS

2 Peter 1:1
1:1 Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, to those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ:
NAS

So who is our Savior, God or Jesus the Messiah?

Romans 2:14-16
14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness, and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus. NAS

2 Timothy 4:1-2
4:1 I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by His appearing and His kingdom: 2 preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great patience and instruction.
NAS

Who is going to judge mankind, God or Jesus the Messiah?

Now if you want to debate semantics you also have to debate how a word is used; by that I mean is the word a noun, verb, pronoun, adverb, conjunction, and etc. bearing in mind that a word can be a noun, a verb, or a adjective based on how the word is used in a sentence. You also need to debate the type of conjunction used in each sentence. “And” is a co-ordinating conjunction and can be used to join two objects together (bread and butter) or 2 adjectives used to describe the same object or person (judge and savior).

[Snipe]

Aineo-

Would you care to show me, how I told him that anything he said was correct? Can you show me how I said anything about angels? Can you tell me how I said anything about trinity? I said nothing about the issue in my post. I just told him not to get into an endless debate that does no good. Now if you would like to apologize, please do and it will be accepted.

Why don't you accept what I say instead of adding an opinion that is not there?

I told him, I didn't even read all of what he said. Do you need a percentage? I noticed the back and forward spiral. I only read one part of one post. I simply warned him about getting into strife that produces nothing good. So if you don't mind, I will accept your apology.

Now since you want an answer. God is our Saviour, beside him, there is none. God will judge us by His Word (Christ). Friend, grow in the Lord. I have a question for you? Hopefully you will think about it, because I am not asking for an answer, but hoping you will reflect on this. How much of what you speak, have learned first from sermons, lectures, books, literature, etc. and then went and found support for it? Versus how much have you learned newly, straight from God? If it is predominately through tapes, sermons, etc. then you are truly a disciple of man and need to step out of your traditions and seek God personally. If it is from one in one study with God, then you are going to that door, which is Christ. Who do you follow, man or God? Who has given you what you claim to know, man or God?

Thus saith the LORD; Cursed [be] the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD. Jer 17:5

Are you truly going to Christ (the door) to find God or are you just saying what you have been taught all your life, still being a fisherman holding on to your nets?

[kingzson]

Ok Aineo a theophony is God manifesting Himself in either human or angelic form. I have chosen what i feel to be the perfect scripture to explain my thought.
Genesis 32-"............And a man(denotes gender) wrestled with him until the break of dawn...........Your name shall no longer be Jacob, but Israel, for you have striven( Hebrew saritha, connected with first part of "Israel." ) with beings divine and human( Or "God[Elohim, connected with second part of "Israel"] and men."), and have prevailed." Jacob asked, "Pray tell me your name." But he said, "You must not ask my name!" And he took leave of him there. So Jacob named the place Peniel(face of God), meaning ,"I have seen a divine being face to face(GOD/ELOHIM), yet my life has been preserved."
So here Aineo we see that Jacob received the revelation of a monotheistic God who would later be revealed in flesh........He(Jacob)wrestled with both the human and divine natures of God.
The revelation was so complete that he walked away with a name change to show a total change in his character.

[Aineo]

I can show you where you patted him on the back without him replying to my posts. He has not addressed the real issues and has been playing word games, and has used at least one word incorrectly.

Now since he refuses to address the post I quoted maybe you would like to address who did Abaraham talk, walk and dine with.

[Snipe]

God resists the proud, yet shows grace to the humble...

If you cannot humble yourself and at least admit to being wrong, then I have no words to offer you friend. If you don't want to apologize cool, no damage has been done to me. But if you cannot admit being wrong, then what credibility do you have of understanding God without humility?

Truth is not given in study and meditation alone. It is manifested through obedience and practice. If a man have not love, he has not truth. If he has pride, he is void of God. If he be a liar, he is void of truth. Where is your good fruit friend?

[Aineo]

God resists the proud, yet shows grace to the humble...

If you cannot humble yourself and at least admit to being wrong, then I have no words to offer you friend. If you don't want to apologize cool, no damage has been done to me. But if you cannot admit being wrong, then what credibility do you have of understanding God without humility?

Truth is not given in study and meditation alone. It is manifested through obedience and practice. If a man have not love, he has not truth. If he has pride, he is void of God. If he be a liar, he is void of truth. Where is your good fruit friend?

It seems to me that the proud ones on this thread are the oneness advocates that make statments they cannot back up and then refuse to address their mistakes.

Also if anyone is showing arrogance and pride it is again the oneness crowd that insists on playing word games in an attempt to deny the truth and inerrancy of Scripture. False humility as one of the worst forms of pride that one can practice. So I would be careful proclaiming your humility while insinuating that those who disagree with you are filled with pride.

[Snipe]

Aineo-

WHen will your falsehoods stop. I never said anything about my humility. Wrong again with that assertion, but will you admit it? You ask me to support some doctrine about angels and God that I was never part of nor am I reading about. You were wrong in that assumption, but will you admit it? Unless, you were just asking me to explain something that you know I never commented on, and don't know if any insight has been given me on that subject.

I wonder if you even thought about the questions I posted to you.

I wonder do you expect to see three persons when you stand before God or are you expecting to see One God?

May God be judge b/w us...

[Snipe]

Omega-

Maybe I should have been more clear about things, but I was talking to the other person and did not see a need to clarify distinctions. I was not talking about you, Aineo, or anyone else. I was simply telling him, not to get into a endless debate, b/c I saw him going back and forth with everyone else. I only read one paragraph of one of his posts. I did not go through and read everything posted to assert any implications to anyone. It was just a simple statement I made to him. If his heart is for God, then he will learn his wrongs and rights. If his heart is for doctrine, then he will believe what he wants, as with any other person.

In no way was I implying that you, him, or anyone else was being childdish. but simply telling him to let it be before it gets that way. I hope that I have clarified my post. If not, I have no problem with continuing...

[Aineo]

kingzson, you are side stepping Genesis 18:1, is there a reason? The angels that visited Lot were just that angels and are so identified in Scripture. As to your private definition of theophany can you post a link to your definition found in a dictionary?

Snipe, I have not accused you of anything. I have challanged you as a non-Trinitarian to address specific questions that so far all you non-Trinitarians are dancing around.

Kingzson has done nothing but fill these threads with debates over words and has even decided that when I asked about the use of Yehova in Genesis 18:1 I was in fact discussing elohiym and is trying to avoid the issue by bringing another word to debate.

[Snipe]

May God be judge b/w us, for He knows the truth...

[Aineo]

May God be judge b/w us, for He knows the truth...

Yes He does, and you are playing games because you cannot address God's truth.

[kingzson]

Aineo I have been very nice to this point I now find it fruitless to carry on you have made your intentions very clear you do not wish to debate I see now your only goal is to argue.....I gave ample reason to believe in the Oneness dogma yet you would not respond to the scripture i posted on previous posts.........You would either side step issues or pose more questions .............I must apologize if im wrong but it appears to me you have a controll issue.
So now i must take my leave from this topic and move on into more productive areas.
May God bless you and prosper your walk in Him.

[Aineo]

e·piph·a·ny P Pronunciation Key ( -p f -n )
n. pl. e·piph·a·nies
1. Epiphany
a. A Christian feast celebrating the manifestation of the divine nature of Jesus to the Gentiles as represented by the Magi.
b. January 6, on which this feast is traditionally observed.
2. A revelatory manifestation of a divine being.
3.
a. A sudden manifestation of the essence or meaning of something.
b. A comprehension or perception of reality by means of a sudden intuitive realization: “I experienced an epiphany, a spiritual flash that would change the way I viewed myself” (Frank Maier).

epiphany
n 1: a divine manifestation 2: twelve days after Christmas; celebrates the visit of the three wise men to the infant Jesus [syn: Epiphany, Epiphany of Our Lord, Twelfth day, Three Kings' Day, January 6]

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=Epiphany

Not theophany:

the·oph·a·ny P Pronunciation Key (th - f -n )
n. pl. the·oph·a·nies
An appearance of a god to a human; a divine manifestation.
theophany
n : a visible (but not necessarily material) manifestation of a deity to a human person
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=theophany

Abraham experienced a theophany when Yehova as the pre-incarnate Christ visited with him before the destruction of Sodom and the cities of the plain. Jacob had an epiphany when he wrestled with the angel and 2 angels visited Lot.

I have presented you with Scripture that demonstrates that both God and Jesus are referred to as Savior and the judge of mankind and since you have chosen not to debate or refute the obvious conclusion from these Scriptures that Jesus and God are individuals united as one I accept your resignation from this debate as an admission of defeat.

[Snipe]

Kingz-

Interesting theory, I've noticed threads being closed without good reason, strictly upon personal judgement, but things are not always as they appear, it could be a group effort...

[(Omega)]

Hello Snipe!

Did you take my advice from one brother to another?
I simply stated that you should be careful not to shake the dust off your feet too quickly, as I stated before shaking the dust off of ones feet is symbolic of rejection and condemnation, that act is done to those who repeatedly reject the message of Salvation. This is a thread dealing with Doctrinal Errors between brethren and as to why you mentioned shaking the dust off of ones feet in a thread amongst Brothers in Christ is yet to be understood. The Bible teaches us to preach the word and to be istant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.

Take Care!

[Aineo]

Kingz-

Interesting theory, I've noticed threads being closed without good reason, strictly upon personal judgement, but things are not always as they appear, it could be a group effort...

What thread in particular? As to theory, all you have done is theorize based on Gnostic philosophy and semantics. When are you going to address Biblical truths and not theories developed by those who denied the diety of Jesus Christ?

[Snipe]

Whoa, whoa, whoa my friend. I don't know what Gnostics believe or have proclaimed. The only churches I have ever attended were Protestant. Mainly baptist or non-denominational with the exception that I went to a catholic elementary school until 1st grade. I don't study theology which is theory or past Christain beliefs nor denominational differences. So you can quit with assuming that I am speaking from some developed theology.

You say what thread in particular?

Have you been doing these things, does it concern you that that statement may apply to you.

You speak of semantics. I am a writer, it is necessary for me to be aware of sentence structure and word usage. I write poetry, so I have been given some insight into word usage being as though poetry is an art where words are the paint.

I have no reason to lie, and if I did lie, I would make sure that I correct myself. So I am telling you this, I am not one who listens to men (Gnostics) or theological assumptions and accept them as truth, neither do I accept tradition as truth. I have learned the error of those ways.

I only listen to God. I am truly blind, until by faith Christ gives me sight. What God has given me insight on, I will die for. You on the other hand, try to tell me things that contradict what God shows me. Who would you listen to God or maN. Brother, you are blind. When will you stop making assumptions. And coming up with imaginative conclusions and being correct in your own deceptions. Friend, you don't know how much I want to answer your questions, but God is not leading me that way. Your heart is not in the right place. The reason that I told you I have no words for you was to help you. Hoping that you could at least say, I am sorry, I thought you were saying that he is correct. Or, if I said anything to offend you, I didn't mean to. But you are so RIGHT, there is nothing that you do that is wrong. Is this Godliness? Is this Holiness? The feet of the wicked are swift to bloodshed, but the ways of God are peace. Why don't you let it go? Have you obtained such knowledge that you know the reasons a person does not respond to you?

Yet you consistently present your false conclusions as to why I have not responded to you. You falsely jump on my case to explain things that I have not said. You want me to answer questions, saying I am avoiding them, but I have not even read them. Get off of yourself friend. The reason I have no words for you is because you are always correct, you have all wisdom, you know already. So how can you learn if you know. If you were asking trying to recieve an answer, I would have answered you even without you admiting any wrong. But you only ask a question because you feel your rhetoric and understanding of scripture is superior. It is evident by you claiming I cannot answer your question and you are right I cannot. But the one who I depend on and go to for knowledge can. My Father knows all things. I would love to share with you some of the things that He has shown me, but you know to much for me to even build with. The doctrine that you hear every week, in every book, is already your truth. Have you ever questioned them or asked God is it right, being ready to change? Or do you ask what is truth, but do not really want the answer, as Pilate.

I'm laughing friend. This is foolishness and you have brought me into it. I'm not laughing at you. I'm lauging at myself for continuing to try and be patient. Thinking, "maybe he might humble himself." I'm laughing at myself becaues I am still trying to tell you that you arewrong rather than letting you think you know. I am laughing at myself because I other things that I could be doing, but I am trying to reason with someone who is not even open to understanding what is said to him. Your responses show that you don't understand. As they also convey that you overstand, according to your heart.

Will you call this worthy service of God? Is this what you exhibit believing Christ who said blessed are the peacemakers. I do not honor God by even continuing this conversation. Yet I am hoping for grace, praying that God understands that I just didn't want to give up. You keep referring to Oneness people. I am not a Oneness person. I am not a baptist, non-denominational, Yahwist, or any other denomination of Christianity. I only believe in God and His word as he reveals it to me. This trinity debate is pointless. If I were talking to someone who considered what I was saying and responded as one with understanding, I would gladly answer his questions.

I will leave you with this though,

1 John 4:5 - They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them

WHo are you hearing the world or God?

Why am I taking time to say these things to you? Maybe I still hope that you will consider yourself honestly. God be my witness, and judge, if I have said anything wrong to you in this post. God is with me friend, I have chosen Him over the world, over tradition, over family. You have no idea all the things I've been through in life and what God has brought me through and the ways that He has dealt with me. Your words are as a snare and I have been trapped for but a second in your plea for attention and want of respect. A friend of the world is an enemy to God.

This is love friend. I percieve you are unable to understand it but these words are love that I speak to you. If I did not care for you, I would have just left you alone and not responded a while ago. Consider yourself, don't think more of yourself and doctrine that your measure. I can honestly say that I am nothing and my wisdom is but nothing. I know nothing but what is given, but yet consider all things. I am honest to the best of my ability and have made many changes that I did not want to make for my ever-growing love for God and am still making changes. Don't think your knowledge is complete friend because when God starts to reveal scripture to you, you will learn that everything you held dear was false. When He calls you, you will have to drop those familiar nets and become a fisher of men. But first, you must tarry in the upper room. And when the wind blows, all is yours.

Truly we eat flesh and blood. Truly, we have no home here. Truly, we are bone and flesh and members of what has not been revealed. Why do you think it's called a mystery, b/c the world does not hear it. The world see the physical and react b/c the mind is carnal. The spiritual mind reflects on the spiritual things. I'm lacking 2%, and understand it could cause me my soul. Do you lack anything? Do you think you are fine in God's eyes the way you are? Has that precious blood cleansed you? Or is the flesh still active? They claim to be saved, yet operate under the flesh. They say the love God, but their sins do not cease. They claim they have understanding from their resources, history, and theology. But they are truly blind, deaf and dumb. Don't be one of them. He who does righteousness is righteous, He is born from above. He who does sin and hates his brother is in darkness. He who walks in love is God's child. He who is selfish is the devil's.

Not one who follows God is understood by this world. Nor is he concerned with this world and it's luxuries. What are you concerned with? Nothing is in the world but the lust of the eyes and the pride of life? What feeds your pride? Destroy it. Destroy every trap that springs up in your life. Destroy the flesh. The carnal mind can never know God. Destroy all sin which causes separation. Complete the pilgrimmage. It is straight and narrow without fellowship with darkness. If the body has union with sin, it is in darkness. Awake to righteousness and do not sin. Leave vain babblings alone. Understand before you speak, I myself and guilty of this from time to time and if I don't change, I will perish with the rest of the ungodly. What is holding you back? Or is there nothing? Is your race finished? If it is not, stop acting like you know and learn... not from me but from God. And then we can call each others brothers. When we have finished putting this wicked flesh to death. But as long as the flesh lives, we are not brothers.

Why can't I not care?

[Aineo]

Snipe, you are not the only person on this forum with a knowledge of writing or who has those skills.

Many people claim to have God's word and teach heresy..

I only listen to God.

In this day God speaks through His Son.

Hebrews 1:1-5
1:1 God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, 2 in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world. 3 And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high; 4 having become as much better than the angels, as He has inherited a more excellent name than they. 5 For to which of the angels did He ever say,

"Thou art My Son,
Today I have begotten Thee"?

And again,

"I will be a Father to Him
And He shall be a Son to Me"?
NAS

Jesus plainly teaches He is equal with God. You can believe what you want. As to attempting to edify me then you had better do it God's word and not philosophies that deny God's word.

Your praise people for avoiding God's truth and then state you follow God? That is a contradiction.

2 Timothy 4:1-8
4:1 I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by His appearing and His kingdom: 2 preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great patience and instruction. 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires; 4 and will turn away their ears from the truth, and will turn aside to myths. 5 But you, be sober in all things, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry. 6 For I am already being poured out as a drink offering, and the time of my departure has come. 7 I have fought the good fight, I have finished the course, I have kept the faith; 8 in the future there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day; and not only to me, but also to all who have loved His appearing. NAS

The time has come when men are no longer enduring sound doctrine but are having thier ears tickled by finding teachers that teach myths.

It is to bad you listen to the wrong god and the wrong people.

[Snipe]

When did I say that Christ was not divine? When did I say that Christ was not equal? Why are you saying things that I have not commented on? When did I claim to be the only one to have an understanding of writing? When did I say that God does not speak through His Son? Who have I praised? Is telling a person not to get into something endless, if one does not accept what you say praising them? Is saying I don't agree or disagree b/c I haven't read your posts supporting that persons opinion?

Do you see what I am saying? You keep saying things to me that have no relevance. Honestly, I can't understand how one, with knowledge of english can rebutt something that has not been said. Please stop giving me opinions and actions friend.

As far as listening to the wrong people... let me tell you where I am coming from. I have forsaken what man has said to me and only depend on God to learn His ways. I pray to Him to give me light and trust Him. I talk with people about scriptures and hear sermons from time to time. Yet nothing is accepted without God first showing me it Himself. I am completely dependent on God for understanding. I know that God will not abandon me friend. So you may think I'm listening to the wrong people. But I have none to listen to but God for truth. Why do you think He would let me down? I don't have views on God that would lead me to think that He would not guide me, if He is all that I depend on...

[Aineo]

Who have I praised? Is telling a person not to get into something endless, if one does not accept what you say praising them? Is saying I don't agree or disagree b/c I haven't read your posts supporting that persons opinion?

Here is just one example of you praising a person who has steadfastly refused to address Scripture and continues to “wrangle” over words.

Kingz-


You did your job friend. Let those who do not hear you be, there is nothing more you can do. It is a matter of the heart. All things are revealed in due time. Loved one, you have spoken, let God do the rest. I am not saying I agree with all you say, or disagree with any of it. I have not read it all to fully understand what you are saying. But be at peace friend. You can do nothing for anyone unless God opens their heart.

As to the balance of your post you have only demonstrated that have not read the Trinitarian side with even an attempt to address Scriptures that plainly show the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit share some of the same titles, duties, and privileges.

As to my posting you do not believe in the divinity of Jesus I did not. As to my posting that you posted Jesus is not equal to the Father since you deny the Trinity that is a given.

Now do you want to address Scripture and valid doctrine or simply go after those who disagree with you?

[Snipe]

He did, do his job. He spoke, as did I. This is not praise. It's only true in your own mind... And I say the same to you, you did your job and I don't hear you, so let me be. I hope you don't think I am now praising you.

[Aineo]

He did, do his job. He spoke, as did I. This is not praise. It's only true in your own mind... And I say the same to you, you did your job and I don't hear you, so let me be. I hope you don't think I am now praising you.

If his job is to obfuscate God's truth then so be it.

Now can we address Scripture and cease "wrangling" over words. I am still waiting for a oneness advocate to respond concerning Yehova walking, talking, and dining with Abraham as well as a response to the Scriptures I posted earlier.

[Snipe]

Omega-

Sorry, I just noticed your post. As far as shaking the dust off of your feet. He said if they will not recieve you and not if they repeatedly anything. He said forgive 7X70 if your brother seeks it.

This is was not a discussion. In order for two people to discuss something, they have to LISTEN and respond. That was not the case. Now, if you speak to someone and they are unwilling to hear you. Then you must leave it alone. Do not cast your pearls before swine or they will trample you. You don't know how much this has brought me down. Yet, I am still showing Aineo love. Love is my motivation. When you address someone with love and they speak to you without even listening to you, it damages you. One plants and another reaps. I have spoken to him. His heart is not in the right place friend. In due time, another will water and another will reap. But the heart must change first.

Why do you think regardless of how much information you give a Muslim, Catholic, Hindu, etc. they will not agree or change. B/c a change must happen in the heart first and only God can do that. Now if he were someone I see and saw me regularly, then maybe the dim light shining brighter could be used to change that. But until the heart (good ground) is toiled and ready to recieve, nothing can be done, but damage and strife.

[(Omega)]

Hello Snipe!

Understand this my friend, do you understand what the words "Dogs" and "Swine" refer to?
The Bible states that dogs will not enter into the Kingdom of God!

As much as I have disagreements with many on this forum, you will not see me refer to them as "dogs" or "swine". And I do not consider my Brothers in Christ, dogs or swine. Do you call a brother whom you love dog or swine and shake the dust off your feet? Once again, shaking the dust off of ones feet refers to "rejection and condemnation" and condemn not unless you be condemned, is this what you call forgiveness?

The Problem here is that there is a disagreement in doctrine and Aineo has shown scripture to validate His truth, on the other hand I have not seen you using "SCRIPTURES"(Word of God) to disprove Him, and yet you cast stones at Him. Think about it my friend!

God Bless!

[Snipe]

For the last couple of posts, we have not been talking about doctrine. My not wanting to debate with him anymore is not over a difference of doctrine. If you feel as though I am a dog or swine, that if fine with me. What does the judgement of man mean? Nothing at all friend, not a penny. God judges me. If you do not view me as a dog or swine, fine, but it still adds nor subtracts anything from me friend. I have done no wrong in discontinuing a one way conversation. This was no debate...

May God be Judge, He knows the truth...

[(Omega)]

Hello Snipe!

For the last couple of posts, we have not been talking about doctrine. My not wanting to debate with him anymore is not over a difference of doctrine. If you feel as though I am a dog or swine, that if fine with me. What does the judgement of man mean? Nothing at all friend, not a penny. God judges me. If you do not view me as a dog or swine, fine, but it still adds nor subtracts anything from me friend. I have done no wrong in discontinuing a one way conversation. This was no debate...

May God be Judge, He knows the truth...

Get a hold of yourself, when did I refer to you as dog or swine?
Who is the one mentioning dogs and swine? you were the one.

This is was not a discussion. In order for two people to discuss something, they have to LISTEN and respond. That was not the case. Now, if you speak to someone and they are unwilling to hear you. Then you must leave it alone. Do not cast your pearls before swine or they will trample you. You don't know how much this has brought me down. Yet, I am still showing Aineo love. Love is my motivation. When you address someone with love and they speak to you without even listening to you, it damages you. One plants and another reaps. I have spoken to him. His heart is not in the right place friend. In due time, another will water and another will reap. But the heart must change first.

Now lets see what I said shall we:

As much as I have disagreements with many on this forum, (you will not) see me refer to them as "dogs" or "swine". And I do not consider my Brothers in Christ, dogs or swine. Do you call a brother whom you love dog or swine and shake the dust off your feet? Once again, shaking the dust off of ones feet refers to "rejection and condemnation" and condemn not unless you be condemned, is this what you call forgiveness?

???????

God is NOT the Author of Confusion my friend, why is this happening?

And now, if you believe that your brother is making a doctrinal error, is it not your responsibility to correct him if he is? As far as I have seen in your posts, you have stated that he is in error without presenting any proof or input of any sort in regards to the topic discussed on this thread.

a.) 2 Timothy 4:2 - Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.
The Scriptures instructs us to preach the word which is the God ordained means of preventing defection from the Truth, especially to the teachers who appeal to itching ears. These teachers tell their listeners what they want to hear and not what they need to hear. Are you willing to listen to what you need to hear or do you already assume that what you have been taught may not be susceptible to error? Remember that the Holy Spirit, which is the Spirit of Truth, abides within all Believers. The main reason why there are disagreements between the body of Believers who have the Holy Spirit is because one member is not willing to be corrected and is content with what He/She has been taught or indoctrinated with, regardless of the diligent studies the other member have put forth. Therefore the disagreements between members of the Body of Christ must be rectified.

b.) 2 Timothy 2:15 - Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
You should apply both the literal and spiritual interpretations found in the Word of God.

• Prayer
• Purifying our hearts
• Spiritual Discernment

You must interpret the literal understanding of scriptures according to the mind of the author, the rules of grammar and the context of the passage.

c.) 2 Timothy 3:16,17 - All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
It is your duty to reprove or to tell someone when they make a doctrinal error if they do, and to instruct one on how to correct their wrong, so far you have failed to do so!

And with all due respect, does not making the claim that your brother is rejecting the truth without you presenting the truth a bit arrogant? A wise man is both able to give advice and knows when to take it.

God Bless!

[Snipe]

I am not confused, but I will admit that I read your post wrong. But what you qouted was not why I said that, I read something else wrong.

As far as the last several posts that I was speaking of in the last post, I was not referring to any doctrine that he said. No doctrine at all. So all of the comments you made about doctrinal disagreements are unnecessary friend.

True, but if you correct someone about a doctrinal error and they won't accept your words. Should you keep talking or leave that person alone (again, was not referring to doctrine in any of the last several posts). If you read the post, we were not talking about the topic on this thread and he presented the evidence, and I just referred to it...

Disagreements can only be reconciled if both party's are willing friend.

No, I do not think that I can be without error. Yet, God is without it. On some issues that I have talked with people about, I talk from my own studies and understanding. In these things, I am more than willing to admit being wrong if proven wrong. But other things, I have learned from God, and I don't budge on those issues.

Again, he presented the truth for me, I just pointed it out. This was not a matter of doctrine friend. Reread the posts... what is the doctrine that we are discussing. Am I not telling him, that I didn't say any of this stuff you want me to prove. That I was just telling him not to get into an endless debate. What form of doctrine is this discussion? If I tell you stop putting words in my mouth, is that a doctrinal debate? Can you admit to being wrong sometimes?

[(Omega)]

And Hello to you to Snipe!

What words did I put in your mouth?
I quoted what you said, plain and simple. I am not going to waste my time in a thread where advice is obviously not taken. I have no problem admitting I'm wrong If I put words in your mouth, admit it my friend, you said what you said and the proof is in the putting. BTW, if I quoted exactly what you said and what you said was misunderstood because you read my post wrong, how am I wrong??? Who misread who? I only quoted what you said. Who made the mistake??? I am truly concerned for you as a brother who seems to be easily offended, lacking long-suffering and not being able to bear with another, why? I will be praying for you, and sure you can pray for me too!

Take Care and God Bless!

[Snipe]

Now, I have admitted that I read what you said the wrong way... now let's look at what I said...

I said,
"If I tell you to stop putting words in my mouth, is this a doctrinal debate?"

I am making a point regarding me and Aineo's conversation.

It is a question and not a comment. If you leave it in it's context. I am talking about the discussion with me and Aineo and then I have some examples of what was said by me. Then I asked you a question in relation to the previous posts (qouted above). This is not saying you put words in my mouth. It is a question asking you is it a doctrinal debate if I tell you to stop putting words in my mouth. I am sure you know what if means. It is setting up a circumstance and not stating a fact. I asked can you admit being wrong b/c if you go and reread the posts like I suggested, you will see that our last several posts was not a debate about doctrine. I hope this has cleared things up. I don't think that you are confused. It does seem as though you took what I said the wrong way, just like I previously did with you.

[(Omega)]

Really?

OK, take care and God Bless!

[Snipe]

Omega-

You said this:

I have no problem admitting I'm wrong If I put words in your mouth, admit it my friend, you said what you said and the proof is in the putting. BTW, if I quoted exactly what you said and what you said was misunderstood because you read my post wrong, how am I wrong??? Who misread who? I only quoted what you said.

And you also said this:

And with all due respect, does not making the claim that your brother is rejecting the truth without you presenting the truth a bit arrogant? A wise man is both able to give advice and knows when to take it.

When speaking to Aineo, I said this:

Understand before you speak, I myself and guilty of this from time to time and if I don't change, I will perish with the rest of the ungodly.

and I also said this:

If it is not, stop acting like you know and learn... not from me but from God. And then we can call each others brothers. When we have finished putting this wicked flesh to death. But as long as the flesh lives, we are not brothers.

And to you I said this:

I am not confused, but I will admit that I read your post wrong. But what you qouted was not why I said that, I read something else wrong.


Firstly, you said you have not problem, admitting when you are wrong. Then you asked a question to me (not in chronological order) about is something arrogant, regarding one rejecting truth, right...

If you look at what I said to Aineo, I said understand before you speak and I am guilty of that too from time to time. Is this not being honest rather than arrogant ( I know you didn't call me vain) because I turned right around and mixed up something you said, right? Then I suggested we put this flesh to death. Everything I said to him, I am also considering about myself. Is this arrogance? Anything I say to any of you all, I consider myself as well.

Then finally, I admitted to you that I read what you said wrong, but said it was not the part you qouted. This is what I read wrong.

Understand this my friend, do you understand what the words "Dogs" and "Swine" refer to?

And this is how I read into it

Understand this my friend, do you understand that the words "Dogs" and "Swine" refer you?

I admitted my wrong... now can you admit yours, about mixing up what I said???

Now this last question, is the reason for the whole debate that me and Aineo was having. He did the same thing, but would not admit it. Wouldn't even say, if I offended you, I didn't mean to. Which is not even admitting it, but I suggested he could just say that and still could and I would wink at the whole situation.

Now, what will you do? Is "really, ok" your final response? Or can you really admit when you are wrong?

[(Omega)]

Hello to you to Snip!

You are desperately trying to find fault in me aren't you? HOW AM I WRONG for YOUR MISTAKE!

I said:Understand this my friend, do you understand that the words "Dogs" and "Swine" refer you?
Did or did not you use dogs and swines? And did or did not I say to be careful in using such statements among your brothers, HOW AM I WRONG?

Your putting yourself to shame my friend, you seem as if you cannot let go of something in which I have put to rest long ago. Continue in making statements of my faults if you wish, as I said before, I have no problem admitting I'm wrong If I am. You can say whatever you want about me after this response, I will not respond to one who cannot get a hold of His composure.

If you wish to continue wasting my time then so be it! This is off-topic and if you are to read the forum rules, all off-topic threads will be locked.

God Bless!

[Snipe]

What words did I put in your mouth?
I quoted what you said, plain and simple. I am not going to waste my time in a thread where advice is obviously not taken.

Above is how you mixed my words up...

I already told you and will sing it until you hear me, I was wrong. Absolutely wrong about the dogs pigs mix up...

You don't have to admit you were wrong as well about the putting words in my mouth mix up... By their fruits they are known... But I sincerely forgive you friend...

[(Omega)]

FORGIVE ME FOR WHAT??

And I sincerely forgive you!

Love,
(Omega)

[(Omega)]

BTW, and you are correct in stating that By their Fruits they are known!
Fruits not only refers to ones actions but their doctrines as well. Once again, one day you will see clearly and then rectify all the wrong that you have done unto your brethren here on this forum, til then you will not understand as I have seen so far.

God Bless!

[Snipe]

Forgive you for mixing up my words...

Ask someone else if you mixed up my words... It's not that bad... I did the same thing to you, but it doesn't hurt me in anyway to admit it... Don't be prideful friend. If you read my post, you should now agree that it was a question and not a comment. the question mark denotes that... Ask someone else what they think about this...

[(Omega)]

You need some serious help Snipe, you just can't let go can you?
If I am wrong in anything, it is wasting my time with a fault finder!

Quit harasssing me!

[Snipe]

From your own words "quit harassing me" it is agreed and I trust that I will no longer recieve comment from you either, stranger...

[(Omega)]

Hello Snipe!

From your own words "quit harassing me" it is agreed and I trust that I will no longer recieve comment from you either, stranger...

"I know you are but what am I?" is getting really infantile my friend.

And Stranger? thanks for your kindness and love my friend!

I don't consider you a stranger, I love you as a brother and am concerned because you are misled, nevertheless still my BIC!

Love you and God Bless!

[Aineo]

These infantile exchanges will cease or I will close this thread. Snipe if you feel you have to insult others then take your insults and self-righteous attitude to emails or PM's or suffer the consequences.

[Snipe]

Being as though it takes two to debate, argue, converse, I trust that what ever is done to me, will be done to both parties, if there is no bias...

Have I not been insulted, whether intentionally or not? I am not trying to insult anyone... Though some say the truth hurts...

John 16:2 - They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.

God be Judge

[Aineo]

Being as though it takes two to debate, argue, converse, I trust that what ever is done to me, will be done to both parties, if there is no bias...

Have I not been insulted, whether intentionally or not? I am not trying to insult anyone... Though some say the truth hurts...

John 16:2 - They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.

God be Judge

An insult can only be an insult if a post is taken as an insult aimed at you personally, therefore if you take any post as an insult aimed at you then you (not the other person) has the problem.

You have taken some of my posts as insults directed at you specifically when in fact I have not tried to insult you. You are now doing the same with Omega. Now you either leave that holier-than-thou attitude at the door or you will be evicted.

[Snipe]

There is no holier than thou attitude friend...

You said

"Snipe if you feel you have to insult others then take your INSULTS and self-righteous attitude to emails or PM's or suffer the consequences."

Now you say:
"An insult can only be an insult if a post is taken as an insult aimed at you personally, therefore if you take any post as an insult aimed at you then you (not the other person) has the problem. "

According to your own words, you have the problem and not me, because you take it that I am insulting people.

I take it that people are misunderstaning what I say, that is not taking it as a insult.

I asked have I not been insulted b/c you looked at what I've said as insults, so you should also look at what is said to me as insults, according to your own judgement...

If you wish to evict me, then do as you please friend, it does not hurt me... It just reveals what is in your heart... Please do not have a double standard, if you do have one....

John 16:2 - They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.