Isn't masturbation just as bad as sex outside of marriage?

[burwelm]

What about celibacy? Does that include masturbation? I mean do you think that these people who choose celibacy masturbate? Doesn't masurbation pervert one's thought just as much as sex outside of marriage? Why is the issue of not having sex till a person is married such a big deal but no one seems to care about the issue of masturbation? Personally I think masturbation is worse than having sex outside of marriage if people don't think it is wrong.

[Madeleine]

People do care about the issue of masturbation. However, it is a bit of a grey area as it's not specifically mentioned in the Bible. You are right in saying that it can pervert one's thoughts. If it does pervert one's thoughts, then the chances are that God will not be too happy about it.

Masturbation harms you and your relationship with God. Sex outside marriage harms you, your relationship with God, your partner, their relationship with God, your future spouse (if applicable) and there are a number of other factors that come into play such as pregnancy and STDs.

My boyfriend suggests that if masturbation harms your relationship with God, then it can also harm your relationship with other people.

[Hannibal]

studies show that men who masturbate know themselves better and it helps with the sperm count or something.

[Narky_McDark]

and it protects them from testicular cancer.

[Hannibal]

lets all get into a circle and save each other from cancer!!!

[Dove]

I can't believe you posted that, it's discusting, and abhorrent. Nobody should even think of such things.

[Madeleine]

Yeah, I don't think anyone's gonna take you up on that offer, Hannibal....

[Helix]

lets all get into a circle and save each other from cancer!!!

Hahaha!
The only thing funnier than that post were the responses to it

[Sevryn45]

Ok I will admit it, I am a sinner but I can't help it; I am in my 20's for crying outloud. No but seriously, this sort of thing is natural and I don't think it can be helped; it's hectic and you obviously overdo it when you're a young twat but after you get old you don't have to worry about this since your test level are chopped up and become diminished.

Human beings are disguisting, I can't even imagine why God created us like this.

[Madeleine]

I hear you, I'm 19. I'm sure sexual sins will be more difficult to avoid when we're older.

Btw, I don't think you should use words like "twat" on this forum...

When God initially created man, there wasn't this problem. The man and his wife had sex and that was it. But thousands of years of sin have brought us to the stage where people who think sex outside marriage is wrong are considered strange.

[Chazrum]

I don't see anything wrong with masturbation, as long as it's done in moderation, and you don't hurt yourself doing it.

By the way, Hannibal, you're a rock star. I think I love you.

[Brucey]

I think "moderation in all things" is a very good philosophy to follow. Including masturbation. Obviously if it is effecting your life, your relationship with other people, and so forth, consider cutting it out. One cannot know for sure how it is affecting God.

[Lou Zar]

I really can't see anything wrong with masturbation. As Brucy and Chazrum pointed out, if it gets to the point where you either hurting yourself or it is effecting your relationship with God or others I wouldn't do it but the act itself isn't wrong.

lets all get into a circle and save each other from cancer!!!

XD

[ursus 137]

Come the day of judgement, we will all have a lot of time on our hands.

[Pint0 Xtreme]

Everyone is different, thus everyone have different levels of sexual needs. Some masturbate a few times a day while some hardly ever masturbate. Let your body naturally determine how often you should jack-off. It's also a great way to reduce stress and it's a whole lot of fun.

[Alyrium]

My boyfriend suggests that if masturbation harms your relationship with God, then it can also harm your relationship with other people.

There is no evidence to support that contention however

and it protects them from testicular cancer.

As well as immediate concerns such as hemospermia.

What happens when someone doesnt "relase" themselves for to long is that a male's body produces more sperm than it can reabsorb and much like a hose that is clogged will eventually burst, so will seminiferous tubules that produce sperm cells and this causes capilary bleeding inflamation and there is a good chance of infection.

I can't believe you posted that, it's discusting, and abhorrent. Nobody should even think of such things.

I will admit it was in poor taste, but IMHO funny nonetheless. DOnt take things so seriously, humor is your friend.

Human beings are disguisting, I can't even imagine why God created us like this.

He didnt, but that is a side issue for another forum.

WHy would God create a species that requires something he hates just to remain healthy? In fact, why in all the sweet universe would he hate such arbitrary stuff as sex outside of wedlock(which is an artificial construct) masturbation, and in the case of the kosher laws seething a kid in the milk of its mother(eating cheese with beef for example)

[Madeleine]

Heh. Well I've been studying the formation of sperm cells (lucky me) and the average 20 year old male produces 400 million of them a day.

I get the impression that if you don't eject them from your system, they will do it themselves.

[redseal]

ALL those who masterbate shall be cast into the pits of Hell! For our bodies are temples unto The Lord; perverts who defile themselves are doomed to an eternity of woe!

[Alpha]

For you Christians out there:

"You have heard that it was said, 'YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY'; but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart." ( Matthew 5:27-28 )

[Mister Emu]

Alpha, what if neither the male nor the female are married? Adultery being sex involving at least one married person, outside of said marriage.

[newseed]

Alpha, what if neither the male nor the female are married? Adultery being sex involving at least one married person, outside of said marriage.

That has been already answered by Alpha and here it is again:

You have heard that it was said, 'YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY'; but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart." ( Matthew 5:27-28 )

If neither are married, don't you think that having sex is still adultery because it's still outside of marriage?

Adultery is not limited to those who are married while lusting after another.

[Chaos Envoy]

I already commented on this in another thread, so my main response will be fairly brief.

I don't understand the thoughts of someone thinking masturbation is worse than sex outside of marraige. The old punishment for fornification was death, while masturbation isn't even stated as actually being a sin.
So the only sin part of masturbating is the lust issue. An easy way to solve that problem is to create a woman in your mind who isn't real. Problem solved. Kind of hard to lust after someone who doesn't actually exist. If your imagination is lacking, make sure not to fantasize about someone you know is married, because that would DEFINATELY be wrong. But before saying Jesus is refering to everyone, think about the context. It's quite possible most of the people Jesus was talking to were married men, who really SHOULDN'T be fantasizing about women other than their wives. In which case he may not have been talking about unwed individual at all.

[Aineo]

The OT penalty for adultery was death. The OT penalty for fornication depended on the marriage status of those involved. For instance if an unmarried male had sexual relations with an unmarried female they were required to marry and were prohibited from ever getting a divorce. Fornication is used most often in Scripture as an indictment against idol worship.

God's only comment concerning seminal emission is found here:

Leviticus 15:16-18
16'Now if a man has a seminal emission, he shall bathe all his body in water and be unclean until evening. 17'As for any garment or any leather on which there is seminal emission, it shall be washed with water and be unclean until evening. 18'If a man lies with a woman so that there is a seminal emission, they shall both bathe in water and be unclean until evening. NAS

However, Jesus equates sexual lust with adultery so what is sin is the motivation behind the act.

[On My Way]

I already commented on this in another thread, so my main response will be fairly brief.

I don't understand the thoughts of someone thinking masturbation is worse than sex outside of marraige. The old punishment for fornification was death, while masturbation isn't even stated as actually being a sin.
So the only sin part of masturbating is the lust issue. An easy way to solve that problem is to create a woman in your mind who isn't real. Problem solved. Kind of hard to lust after someone who doesn't actually exist. If your imagination is lacking, make sure not to fantasize about someone you know is married, because that would DEFINATELY be wrong. But before saying Jesus is refering to everyone, think about the context. It's quite possible most of the people Jesus was talking to were married men, who really SHOULDN'T be fantasizing about women other than their wives. In which case he may not have been talking about unwed individual at all.

Lust is lust
It does not matter if they are real or not

Other Gods are not real but if you worship them then you shall be put to death according to the OT
Just my thought on this

[Chaos Envoy]

Lust has many definitions, most of which would require a real person. Most that don't would also apply to married couples and would make it really hard to have a healthy relationship.

Do you happen to know the exact definition meant by Jesus or God? The quote stated earlier would certainly indicate the necessity of another individual. (To my knowledge it is impossible to commit adultery with a figment of your imagination, though if you're married you still should probably only be fantasizing about your spouse.)

When did God say other gods were REAL?

[On My Way]

Lust has many definitions, most of which would require a real person. Most that don't would also apply to married couples and would make it really hard to have a healthy relationship.

Do you happen to know the exact definition meant by Jesus or God? The quote stated earlier would certainly indicate the necessity of another individual. (To my knowledge it is impossible to commit adultery with a figment of your imagination, though if you're married you still should probably only be fantasizing about your spouse.)

When did God say other gods were REAL?

Hi

Lust has many definitions, most of which would require a real person. Most that don't would also apply to married couples and would make it really hard to have a healthy relationship.

Humm OK?
There is only one definition that we need to figure out here.

Do you happen to know the exact definition meant by Jesus or God?

No,,, Do you?

The quote stated earlier would certainly indicate the necessity of another individual. (To my knowledge it is impossible to commit adultery with a figment of your imagination, though if you're married you still should probably only be fantasizing about your spouse.)

Which quote are you refering to here?
But tell me this Chaos Do you think God and Jesus really care if the person is real or made up? Its all about the Act not the Actors, if that makes sense.

When did God say other gods were REAL?

I'm pretty sure he didn't,,, IF I remember right that he said he is the one and Only God and I do not understand what you are getting at here. I never said there are other gods I said I could worship a false god a figment of my imagination and that we know is a No NO

[Chaos Envoy]

Sorry. It's late and I read yours wrong (missed the not, couldn't figure out how where you would have gotten him saying there were other gods) I do apologize.

No, I don't know which defenition of lust he meant. But since you don't either how do you know he wasn't talking about one of the many definitions that would require a real person to work?

I was referring to the 'to lust after a woman is already to have committed adultery' (paraphrasing) quote, I'm pretty sure it was this thread.

As for the act, not the actors. Technically lust isn't an act and I do think there is a difference because if they're using a definition requiring an actual person they would care because it'd be impossible to lust after a nonexistant one using such a definition.

[Aineo]

Lust can mean an intense desire to possess someone or something. Men can lust after a new car, house, sexual partner, and etc. In Matthew 5 Jesus said:

Matthew 5:27-28

27 "You have heard that it was said, 'You shall not commit adultery'; 28 but I say to you, that everyone who looks on a woman to lust for her has committed adultery with her already in his heart. NAS

It is immaterial if the object of sexual lust is a real person or an idealized image.

[Chaos Envoy]

But by the definition you just used it is impossible to lust after an imagined image. It is something that cannot be possessed and is pointless to desire to possess it. You don't have to want it to imagine it, but if you have a good visualization capability an imagined figure can act as stimulus which I argue would make it possible to masturbate without lust as a purely biological process.

[On My Way]

It is something that cannot be possessed and is pointless to desire to possess it.

That is what makes it lust

[Chaos Envoy]

Except you don't have an intense desire to possess the figment of your imagination. (Or shouldn't anyway) It's just THERE. It is possible to create an image in your head without DESIRING it at all, which is therefore NOT lust by the definition Aineo stated.

[Aineo]

Except you don't have an intense desire to possess the figment of your imagination. (Or shouldn't anyway) It's just THERE. It is possible to create an image in your head without DESIRING it at all, which is therefore NOT lust by the definition Aineo stated.

Maybe you don't have an intense desire to possess a vigment of your imagination, however others just might. Jesus used lust as we can and do use the word "covet".

Exodus 20:17

17 "You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife or his male servant or his female servant or his ox or his donkey or anything that belongs to your neighbor." NAS

Romans 8:6-8
6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so; 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God. NAS

Or as James wrote:

James 1:14-15
14 But each one is tempted when he is carried away and enticed by his own lust. 15 Then when lust has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death. NAS

[Chaos Envoy]

My point is that it is POSSIBLE to masturbate without sinning, not that many people do so. And if it is possible to masturabate without sinning it can't possibly be as bad or worse than sex outside of marraige, which in itself is a sin. I've tried to demostrate the logical reasoning for my belief that the anwer to the question of whether masturbation is as bad as sex outside of marraige is NO.

[Aineo]

My point is that it is POSSIBLE to masturbate without sinning, not that many people do so. And if it is possible to masturabate without sinning it can't possibly be as bad or worse than sex outside of marraige, which in itself is a sin. I've tried to demostrate the logical reasoning for my belief that the anwer to the question of whether masturbation is as bad as sex outside of marraige is NO.

I agree since it is possible to masturbate without fantasizing about anyone or anything, however you choose a long way aroung the mulberry bush to come to a concise statement that is true.

[Chaos Envoy]

I know, but I enjoy going the long way. I find it is harder to tear a statement apart if someone has preemptedly answered most arguments that could be made against it.

[Aineo]

I know, but I enjoy going the long way. I find it is harder to tear a statement apart if someone has preemptedly answered most arguments that could be made against it.

In other words you are trying to justify coveting and lusting? Simple statements are easily understood while many words only leads to confusion.

[Chaos Envoy]

I know, but I enjoy going the long way. I find it is harder to tear a statement apart if someone has preemptedly answered most arguments that could be made against it.

In other words you are trying to justify coveting and lusting? Simple statements are easily understood while many words only leads to confusion.

No, I'm trying to give an example of how it is possible to masturbate WITHOUT coveting or lusting. If I'd simply said "Masturbating does not = sinning" without trying to show how that's possible I'm fairly certain it would have been taken as me supporting coveting and lusting. The statement would have been simpler, but just as confusing.

[Vipera]

Masturbation reduces sexual tension, increases sperm count, lowers the risk of prostate cancer, and on top of all that it feels good. I wouldn't classify that as bad.