You think the Devil Made the Qur'an? Astuhgfirillah, Then you call All Muslim Devil Worshippers, and that includes Malcom X, Muhammad Ali and more. now i know Christians dont read a Devil's Book (The Bible) we say its corrupted, a prophecy from moses. My Challenge to you is read the Qur'an with heart, Not to read it to find wrong with it, that is the only way to know the truth, Its not a hard challenge.
My Lord, keep me thankful for the blessing You have bestowed on me and on my parents, and keep me acting rightly, pleasing You, and admit me, by Your mercy, among Your righteous slaves. (Surat an-Naml: 19)
My Rabb! grant me wisdom, and join me with the righteous. (26:83)
My Rabb! surely I seek refuge with You for asking You that about which I have no knowledge; and if You do not forgive me and have mercy to me, I shall become of the losers. (11:47)
Our Rabb! give us good in this world, and good in the Hereafter, and save us from the chastisement of the Fire. (2:201)
My Rabb! I take refuge with You -- from the prompting of the Evil-ones;
And I take refuge with You, O Rabb! lest they come up to me. (23:97-98)
Do these verses from the Quran Sound Evil to you?
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Abdullah
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DMP
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Hello Abdullah...I'm new here.
I've tried to read as much as possible before making any comment. It seems to me that in order for there to be an exchange of dialogue there first must be a friendship made whether the parties ever agree with the others belief system. One must agree to be respectful at all times and if they part then they part with great respect for each other. I promise to do that. You have my word.
I also believe that the way I use words and the way you and others use words might cause a confusion in understanding. Culture can easily do that. With that said I begin.
I think we give the devil to much credit sometime. To say that the devil wrote the Quran might be a leap to say the least. In my experience in Christianity we credit the devil when we do something wrong and say the devil made me do it in almost everything. The devil is not the cause of everything...sometimes it is simply the man. He fails to realize that he filters his thoughts and feelings through a nature that has fallen.
Sin is the main culprit while satan is the master deciever.
In my own system of belief it was the early Christians who made some terrible decisions and allowed a spirit to envade its core. It resulted in good people sweeping over the land and trying to force Christianity on the world or die. Many lost their lives in their ignorance. It was called The Crusades. They thought they were right but their method was clearly wrong. Many of us have learned that the force of words can kill a discusion and sometimes destroy a relationship. This is what happened in Jesus' day on earth. Many opposed him,despised him, because he would sit with men and women and expound his belief to them without force. If they never followed him he never changed his position or his fondness of them.
In Jesus' day the Jews and Samaritans bitterly fought each other over the place of worship. The Jews said we worship truthfully here at Jerusalem where God taught them. The Samaritans who were mixed (some Jewish blood) made a counter claim that our fathers worship God in these mountains. Well, Jesus replied...the day would come that there would be no place on earth that one could worship the Father, neither in these mountains nor at Jerusalem he said. He said you would have to worship God truthfully in Spirit. So we all have to learn to do that in my opinion as we search for Truth. Bless you Abdullah and I hope to participate in many discussions as the Lord leads us and as I have time. And I wanted to say hello.
DMP
I've tried to read as much as possible before making any comment. It seems to me that in order for there to be an exchange of dialogue there first must be a friendship made whether the parties ever agree with the others belief system. One must agree to be respectful at all times and if they part then they part with great respect for each other. I promise to do that. You have my word.
I also believe that the way I use words and the way you and others use words might cause a confusion in understanding. Culture can easily do that. With that said I begin.
I think we give the devil to much credit sometime. To say that the devil wrote the Quran might be a leap to say the least. In my experience in Christianity we credit the devil when we do something wrong and say the devil made me do it in almost everything. The devil is not the cause of everything...sometimes it is simply the man. He fails to realize that he filters his thoughts and feelings through a nature that has fallen.
Sin is the main culprit while satan is the master deciever.
In my own system of belief it was the early Christians who made some terrible decisions and allowed a spirit to envade its core. It resulted in good people sweeping over the land and trying to force Christianity on the world or die. Many lost their lives in their ignorance. It was called The Crusades. They thought they were right but their method was clearly wrong. Many of us have learned that the force of words can kill a discusion and sometimes destroy a relationship. This is what happened in Jesus' day on earth. Many opposed him,despised him, because he would sit with men and women and expound his belief to them without force. If they never followed him he never changed his position or his fondness of them.
In Jesus' day the Jews and Samaritans bitterly fought each other over the place of worship. The Jews said we worship truthfully here at Jerusalem where God taught them. The Samaritans who were mixed (some Jewish blood) made a counter claim that our fathers worship God in these mountains. Well, Jesus replied...the day would come that there would be no place on earth that one could worship the Father, neither in these mountains nor at Jerusalem he said. He said you would have to worship God truthfully in Spirit. So we all have to learn to do that in my opinion as we search for Truth. Bless you Abdullah and I hope to participate in many discussions as the Lord leads us and as I have time. And I wanted to say hello.
DMP
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Believer
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My Lord, keep me thankful for the blessing You have bestowed on me and on my parents, and keep me acting rightly, pleasing You, and admit me, by Your mercy, among Your righteous slaves. (Surat an-Naml: 19)
My Rabb! grant me wisdom, and join me with the righteous. (26:83)
My Rabb! surely I seek refuge with You for asking You that about which I have no knowledge; and if You do not forgive me and have mercy to me, I shall become of the losers. (11:47)
Our Rabb! give us good in this world, and good in the Hereafter, and save us from the chastisement of the Fire. (2:201)
My Rabb! I take refuge with You -- from the prompting of the Evil-ones;
And I take refuge with You, O Rabb! lest they come up to me. (23:97-9
Really, this does not mean that the True God is reperesented in your religion.
These came from the Avesta, the holy book of the Persians.
Ohrmazd is Lord! Ahriman he keeps at bay, he holds him back. May Ahriman be struck and defeated,
May'st Thou, O Ahura Mazda! reign at Thy will, and with a saving rule over Thine own creatures, and render Ye the holy (man) also a sovereign at his will over waters, and over plants, and over all the clean and sacred (creatures) which contain the seed of Righteousness
O righteous one, according to your will, I shall accomplish to the extent of (my) power, your worship with good thoughts, good words, and good deeds. I shall open (for myself) the brilliant way (of paradise) so that the grievous punishment of hell may not be inflicted on me. I shall pass over the Chinwad bridge and attain to the abode of paradise (which is) very fragrant, all-embroidered, and of all happiness.
(I) praise the name of that Minoyan mino, the increaser, worthy to be praised, who always was, always is, and always will be; whose one name is Ohrmazd, the God who is the greatest among all, wise, Creator, supporter, protector, endurer, the lord of righteousness, forgiver, and dispenser of excellent and pure justice.
'[Give] unto that man brightness and glory, give him health of body, give him sturdiness of body, give him victorious strength of body, give him full welfare of wealth, give him a virtuous offspring, give him long, long life, give him the bright, all-happy, blissful abode of the holy Ones
I don't worship their god Ohrmazd, only the True God, Yawheh.
The god presented in Zoroastrianism and the god presented in Islam are not the True God as presented in Judeo-Christianity.
Your verses from the Quran are not impressive, as even more impressive praises to God are found in Persian holy texts, but that does not mean that Ohrmazd is the True God.
Satan best decieved those that would never realize they are being decieved, those who believe they are following the True God and opposing the evil...they would not suspect that they are following the evil!
One must look beyond superficial things that this, like at how the prophet acted in regards to previous prophets.
In times past, God spoke in partial and various ways to our ancestors through the prophets;
in these last days, he spoke to us through a son, whom he made heir of all things and through whom he created the universe,
-Hebrews 1:1-2
in these last days, he spoke to us through a son, whom he made heir of all things and through whom he created the universe,
-Hebrews 1:1-2
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Abdullah
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These came from the Avesta, the holy book of the Persians.
You cannot say they came from the Avesta, there is no Historical proof that we "borrowed" it from them, and please when you quote there book, reference them,
Satan best decieved those that would never realize they are being decieved, those who believe they are following the True God and opposing the evil...they would not suspect that they are following the evil!
Kinda like with you and your faith right
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Believer
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You cannot say they came from the Avesta, there is no Historical proof that we "borrowed" it from them, and please when you quote there book, reference them,
Did I say you borrowed anything?
However, the Avesta does predate the Quran and Muhammed's best friend was Salman el-Farsi, a Zoroastrian convert to Islam.
Just because the Quran says prayers and praises to God, like the Avesta also says praises and things to God, but that does not mean their or your faith is from God.
I don't worship Ohrmazd, do you?
I don't worship Allah, the god you pray to.
I only worship Yahweh.
Kinda like with you and your faith right
Not so with Christianity.
Jesus taught that the Law of God is based on Love.
But Muhammed killed people and led wars, he went totally agaisnt Jesus's teachings. He did not model himself after Christ. Clearly Muhammed is not a prophet of the True God, but a false god and your holy book is the product of humans beings.
Christianity is not a deception because it is a fuflillment of many prophecies embedded into the writings of the Prophets, the Psalms, and the Law. Islam cannot boast this.
In times past, God spoke in partial and various ways to our ancestors through the prophets;
in these last days, he spoke to us through a son, whom he made heir of all things and through whom he created the universe,
-Hebrews 1:1-2
in these last days, he spoke to us through a son, whom he made heir of all things and through whom he created the universe,
-Hebrews 1:1-2
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Here you go Abdullah, this is a better challenge then yours and no Muslim has taken it up yet.
http://www.jesus-christ-forums.com/home/viewtopic.php?t=1404
http://www.jesus-christ-forums.com/home/viewtopic.php?t=1404
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