Did Satan reveal the Qur'an?

[Masquerade]

A claim among Christians is that the Qur’an is not the word of God and in fact, is Satan’s work. Well, besides the many verses that say to not follow Satan, that he is the Rejected One, the Evil One, and his companions are that of the Left Hand Path. Here is full proof: Satan was a Jinn that earned a ranking equal with God’s Angels. When God created Adam, he commanded the assembly of Angels to bow down to Adam. Satan was part of this assembly, and although ranked with the Angels, he was still a Jinn. God had imposed free will upon the Jinn so, unlike the Angels who have no free will, Satan exercised his free will by refusing to bow down to Adam. For this, God cursed him. Satan then asked God to grant him power to deceive and tempt Mankind, which God granted him. Satan was then banished from Heaven. Due to this, I conclude that Satan is not a fallen angel, but a Jinn, for if he was an angel, he would have had no free will and bowed down to Adam. Surah 17:88 reads: “Say: ‘If the whole of mankind and Jinns were to gather together to produce the like of this Qur’an they could not produce the like thereof, even if they backed up each other with help and support.’” Therefore, since Satan is a Jinn, and this Ayat is encompassing ALL of mankind and ALL Jinns to say that it would be impossible for them to produce a equal to the Qur’an, then it is simple to conclude that Satan, only one Jinn, could never produce the Qur’an and reveal it to the Prophet Muhammad.

On a side note, why was my recent post about the Trinity deleted?

[Believer]

What you believe about Satan was derived from myths.
Your satan is not real, but a character from apocryphal writings.
Where is the real Satan in Islam??? You should be worried.

[Masquerade]

well, YOUR Satan story about a fallen angel is illogical, since Angels have no free will. Even Christians know that Angels have no free will.

[Believer]

well, YOUR Satan story about a fallen angel is illogical, since Angels have no free will. Even Christians know that Angels have no free will.

Nowhere in scripture does it say Angels don't have free will.
God is Just and gives all creation free will, even angels.
You give me your conjecture, while I give you the fact:

Your little story about Satan in the Quran is a combination of two parts of two stories, one from an apocryphal Jewish work The Life of Adam and Eve mixed with the Bundahishn (The Creation), an apocryphal Persian writing.
Man, just ask me to display this.

So your "Iblis" is a fusion of an apocryphal Satan and Ahriman, the devil in Persian cosmology.

[Masquerade]

Alright. display it.

Also, show me the verse where it says Satan was an Angel.

[Scorpion]

Ezekiel 28:13-19: Satan's Origin
Genesis 3:1-6: Satan's First Temptation

Isaiah 14: Satan's Fall From Heaven

Job 1:6-13: Many Facts About Satan's Limitations

Matthew 4:1-10: Satan Tempts Jesus Christ

Revelation 20:1-3, 10: Satan's Eternal Punishment


Read this site here for some nice commentary on those scriptures...http://www.jcsm.org/biblelessons/satan.htm

[Believer]

Thanks Scorpion.

All right Masquerade, check this out:


[17.61] And when We said to the angels: Make obeisance to Adam; they made obeisance, but Iblis (did it not). He said: Shall I make obeisance to him whom Thou hast created of dust?

[38.74] But not Iblis: he was proud and he was one of the unbelievers.
[38.75] He said: O Iblis! what prevented you that you should do obeisance to him whom I created with My two hands? Are you proud or are you of the exalted ones?
[38.76] He said: I am better than he; Thou hast created me of fire, and him Thou didst create of dust.
[38.77] He said: Then get out of it, for surely you are driven away:
[38.78] And surely My curse is on you to the day of judgment.
[38.79] He said: My Lord! then respite me to the day that they are raised.
[38.80] He said: Surely you are of the respited ones,
[38.81] Till the period of the time made known.
[38.82] He said: Then by Thy Might I will surely make them live an evil life, all,


xiv 1 And Michael went out and called all the angels saying:
'Worship the image of God as the Lord God hath commanded.'
And Michael himself worshipped first; then he called me and said: 'Worship the image of God 3 the Lord.' And I answered, 'I have no (need) to worship Adam.' And since Michael kept urging me to worship, I said to him,
'Why dost thou urge me? I will not worship an inferior and younger being (than I). I am his senior in the Creation, before he was made was I already made. It is his duty to worship me.'
-Life of Adam and Eve


xvi 1 And God the Lord was wrath with me and banished me and my angels from our glory; and on 2 thy account were we expelled from our abodes into this world and hurled on the earth. And 3 straightway we were overcome with grief, since we had been spoiled of so great glory. And we 4 were grieved when we saw thee in such joy and luxury. And with guile I cheated thy wife and caused thee to be expelled through her (doing) from thy joy and luxury, as I have been driven out of my glory.
-Life of Adam and Eve

14. And the evil spirit shouted thus: 'I will not depart, I will not provide assistance for thy creatures, I will not offer praise among thy creatures, and I am not of the same opinion with thee as to good things. I will destroy thy creatures for ever and everlasting; moreover, I will force all thy creatures into disaffection to thee and affection for myself.'
-Bundahishn ("creation")

17. Then Ohrmazd, through omniscience, knew that: If I do not grant a period of contest, then it will be possible for him to act so that he may be able to cause the seduction of my creatures to himself. As even now there are many of the intermixture of mankind who practice wrong more than right. 18. And Ohrmazd spoke to the evil spirit thus: 'Appoint a period! so that the intermingling of the conflict may be for nine thousand years. For he knew that by appointing this period the evil spirit would be undone.
-Bundahishn ("creation")

[Believer]

Abdullah, you will not be allowed to post here unless you respond to what I said in my post above or something relevant to this thread.

[Abdullah]

ok first off, i dont understand what you wrote has to do with the topic as well, well ur forum ur rules, i will make another topic than.

RESPONSE: Just because they were used in earlier writings does not mean they have borrowed or copied, in islam a messenger has been sent to EVERY region, that includes Ancient Greece, so i conclude that The prophets spoke to these people that wrote this, and so took it and turned it into there own, i believe this same with the Gilgamesh Story,

[Believer]

ok first off, i dont understand what you wrote has to do with the topic as well, well ur forum ur rules, i will make another topic than.

Hey, all of this is about Satan and Islam.

RESPONSE: Just because they were used in earlier writings does not mean they have borrowed or copied, in islam a messenger has been sent to EVERY region, that includes Ancient Greece, so i conclude that The prophets spoke to these people that wrote this, and so took it and turned it into there own, i believe this same with the Gilgamesh Story,

Prophets of God did not reveal that the angels bowed to Adam, and Satan refused...that was just a made-up story.
God would not tell his angels to bow to Adam.
But in the story God commanded the angels to bow to Adam because Adam was created in the image of God.
Well, you in Islam do not believe that we were created in the image of God, so the Quran is to even correct!

And Ohrmazd is not the God that I worship, so stories about the Persian's god and devil isn't even true.

[Abdullah]

Prophets of God did not reveal that the angels bowed to Adam, and Satan refused...that was just a made-up story.
God would not tell his angels to bow to Adam.

You calling a God a Liar, and again those stories u posted, like i say before, Noah,Adam, and most of the prophets did not come with a Book you know, that is why i say THEY borrowed from us.

[Believer]

I did NOT say that God was a liar.
Only the infidels that wrote false myths and put false words in God's mouth are liars.

I don't worship your god. Why not?????????
I don't worship the god portrayed in Life of Adam and Eve.
I certainly don't worship Ohrmazd, the god of the Persians.
Therefore I don't worship God portayed in the Quran.

[Bushmaster]

Is there any better liar who tries to cover up the crucifixion story without no evidence?

[Abdullah]

TRY reading "Christians Borrowed and Mixed" Wonder why it was Lock? so you woudnlt let people respond and so you can cover the TRUTH!

Is there any better liar who tries to cover up the crucifixion story without no evidence?

I can name a Good liar, Devil and PAUL. and the cruciFICTION did happen, just it wasnt Jesus

[Believer]

TRY reading "Christians Borrowed and Mixed" Wonder why it was Lock? so you woudnlt let people respond and so you can cover the TRUTH!

I don't know who did that.

I can name a Good liar, Devil and PAUL. and the cruciFICTION did happen, just it wasnt Jesus

Funny how the DEVIL is all about killing and death and fighting and stuff that is evil. Jeuss Christ appeared unto Paul and told Him to stop that evil devil stuff, and He did. After that Paul did not even seek to harm another human being.

Look at your Muhammed.
He killed people and had others killed, and did other evil devil-inspired things.
How can you explain this?
How can you DARE say Paul was false apostle and not see how very very false Muhammed was????

[Bushmaster]

TRY reading "Christians Borrowed and Mixed" Wonder why it was Lock? so you woudnlt let people respond and so you can cover the TRUTH!

I don't know who locked that thread, you pretty much got your response! That is that!

I can name a Good liar, Devil and PAUL. and the cruciFICTION did happen, just it wasnt Jesus

Drop the circular muslim tactics, and address the issues presented to you, not throw mud at other issues. I wonder why muslims like to change the topics, is it because it is a universal muslim tactic and documented? So it is the same Quran that addresses the same fiction right? Sorry I thought you could have shot yourself better in the foot. I'd be interested to see your non-islamic historical proof that agrees with quran about Jesus not being on the Cross. We are interested in facts not muslim rhetorics.

[Naaji]

I wonder why muslims like to change the topics, is it because it is a universal muslim tactic and documented?

Where is it documented?

[Naaji]

Look at your Muhammed.
He killed people and had others killed, and did other evil devil-inspired things.

Hmmm i see you are being hypocritical believer, i posted in your post concerning bladphemy and jesus. You are insulting the prophet of god here, yet we cannot delete your post.

Well then since your keen to make the bed, why not lie in it?

what "evil" and "devil-inspired" things did Muhammad (sullallahu-alahi-wasalaam) do?

start a new thread concerning this if you like, because as you have clearly pointed you want htis one to continue on the topic of satan and islam.

Im sorry also if i have offended you in anyway, i call it as i see it, i dont mean to offend you that is not my intention, im simply pointing out facts to you in order that you can be fair in your moderation.

[Bushmaster]

Where is it documented?

http://www.carm.org/islam/muslim_attacks.htm

Read No. 7

[Believer]

Peace Naaji,

Hmmm i see you are being hypocritical believer, i posted in your post concerning bladphemy and jesus. You are insulting the prophet of god here, yet we cannot delete your post.

God forbid I'd insult David Koresh or Joseph Smith, and everyone else that "claims" to be a prophet of God!
Sorry but I am not convinced that Muhammed is a prophet of God.
He displays such ignorance of Christianity(which is reflected in the Quran), certainly he cannot be divinely inspired.
I must warn you that the QUran and Muhammed are not to be trused when they talk about Christian doctrine. They show such misunderstanding of my beliefs.
You know that Satan is the father of ignorance and misunderstanding.

what "evil" and "devil-inspired" things did Muhammad (sullallahu-alahi-wasalaam) do?

Killed people and incited his followers to fight Persia and Byzantium, stone adulteresses, and other anti-Christ activities.
He acted against the teachings of Jesus Christ too many times to be a prophet of God. Prophets do not regress from the teachings of previous prophets.
The Bible clearly warns us of such false prophets.

Im sorry also if i have offended you in anyway, i call it as i see it, i dont mean to offend you that is not my intention, im simply pointing out facts to you in order that you can be fair in your moderation.

Okay, and you have the right to voice your opinion.

[Naaji]

I dont believe that Jesus is God, for me when you say that it is a major sin, the only unforgivable one, shirk, yet i cannot delete your post.

So your saying that a prophet of God never killed anyone? what about hte wars that the jews faught in? Suluyman (alahi wasalwatu wa salaam) killed people according to the old testament, so too did dawud who actually lead an army against the palistinians. As for killing people you haven't studied the seerah so what do you know off what Muhammad (sullallahu alahi wa salaam) has done and for what reasons?

stone adulteresses

your only half right, it is ordered to stone adulteresses and adulterers. Go back to the jewish scripture i think you'll find that this is inline with Gods teachings, the christians have moved away from these commands of the lord, you say the teachings of prophets dont regress from pervious teachings, and as you say satan is the author of confusion.

Jesus never recorded any of his teachings, the gospel accounts are only that accounts, they contradict each other in numerous places, Muhammad's (sullalahu allahi wasalaam) teachings werent exactly the same as Jesus' (alahi wasalwatu waslaam). Jesus was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of israel, to bring them back to the torah because they had strayed from it. He is their messiah (and mine), but still they rejected him and planned to kill him, the jews killed and tortured many of their prophets, but are you going to say that they died for your sins too?

[Naaji]

I hardly call that being well documented, i thought you were gonna bring out some essay or something, but its a series of unqualified points, by an unkown who just has the intentions of discrediting islam and the muslims... I dont like to change topics personally, but conversations naturally sway when people bring out different points.

[Bushmaster]

I hardly call that being well documented, i thought you were gonna bring out some essay or something, but its a series of unqualified points, by an unkown who just has the intentions of discrediting islam and the muslims... I dont like to change topics personally, but conversations naturally sway when people bring out different points.

Unqualified...? unknown...? uh-huh maybe to you only! Who said we were talking about you, read the other page to see how the muslim attempts to change the topic by attacking something completely irrelevant. Whatever boy... we heard these all before, nothing new. Have a splendid day now...

[Naaji]

Yes its unqualified, its not a researched piece, and theres no evidence provided, hence unqulaified. Your condacending manner expressed through your tone towards me doesnt seem very christian.

[Bushmaster]

Yes its unqualified, its not a researched piece, and theres no evidence provided, hence unqulaified.

It is unqualified "to you" because you can not refute it. Unfortunately, Christian Apologetics and RESEARCH Ministry was founded on the very principles you refuse to see. Make a search in CARM website, you will see how qualified and respected their work is.

Your condacending manner expressed through your tone towards me doesnt seem very christian.

Bla bla bla...NOW you are "QUALIFIED" enough to tell me if I sound like a Christian or not? What a piece of work!

[Naaji]

You think you are better than me? you think you are bigger than me? what does your religion teach you about manners and respect, A man with one ounce of arrogance or pride in his heart will not come within 1000 years of entering heaven.

[Naaji]

I can refute it, if you give me some time i will show you how you change the subject matter, and how you loop in circles.

[Omega]

Jesus never recorded any of his teachings, the gospel accounts are only that accounts, they contradict each other in numerous places, Muhammad's (sullalahu allahi wasalaam) teachings werent exactly the same as Jesus' (alahi wasalwatu waslaam). Jesus was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of israel, to bring them back to the torah because they had strayed from it. He is their messiah (and mine), but still they rejected him and planned to kill him, the jews killed and tortured many of their prophets, but are you going to say that they died for your sins too?

The main reason why Jesus was sent is to preach unto the lost sheep of Israel and tell them the good news of salvation through He Himself, take a look at these verses, now tis is a samaritan woman, and as you can see by reading, that she is indeed lost.

Then saith the woman of Samaria unto him, How is it that thou, being a Jew, askest drink of me, which am a woman of Samaria? for the Jews have no dealings with the Samaritans. Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water. The woman saith unto him, Sir, thou hast nothing to draw with, and the well is deep: from whence then hast thou that living water? Art thou greater than our father Jacob, which gave us the well, and drank thereof himself, and his children, and his cattle? Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again: John 4:9-14

His main reason was not only to bring the Jews back to the torah,He came to fulfill the Law and Scripture which was written about Him.

It is written:Matthew 15:24 - But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
It is written:Matthew 10:6 - But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel

It is written:Mark 16:15 - And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

Jesus had commanded His disciples at first to go not the way of the gentiles, and later before he ascended to heaven had commisioned them to preach the Gospel to every reature, the key word here is gospel.

The Jews were the first to hear Christ's message and it was the Jews{Disciples} from that moment on who were to spread the gospel then to the gentiles.

God Bless!

[Bushmaster]

You think you are better than me? you think you are bigger than me? what does your religion teach you about manners and respect, A man with one ounce of arrogance or pride in his heart will not come within 1000 years of entering heaven.

So NOW you even know what I "THINK"? I guess I didn't know you had psychic abilities. NEITHER I said "I am bigger than you" NOR "I am better than you" What kind of childish argument is that? Why do you make up things? FYI, I don't have a religion, I am not bound by any, so no religion teaches me anything. I don't serve no religion.

I can refute it, if you give me some time i will show you how you change the subject matter, and how you loop in circles.

Yada yada yada ... Sure... sure... go ahead.

[Believer]

Peace Naaji,

I dont believe that Jesus is God, for me when you say that it is a major sin, the only unforgivable one, shirk, yet i cannot delete your post.

Well, Jesus is the Lord and that is a reality that must be accepted.
I believe in what is real.

I want you to tell me exactly what these Prophecies are saying:

Psalm 110:1;5
1 The LORD says to my Lord:
"Sit at my right hand
until I make your enemies
a footstool for your feet."

5 The Lord is at your right hand;
he will crush kings on the day of his wrath.

Psalm 80:17
Let your hand rest on the man at your right hand,
the son of man you have raised up for yourself.

Daniel 7:13-14
13 "In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. 14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all peoples, nations and men of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed



The Son of Man sits at the right hand of God, and He is acleld "Lord". The Lord Jesus sits at the right hand of the Father in power and one day all of people and nations will worship Him.
This is what the PROPHETS saw in visions.
This is the REALITY, that Jesus is the Lord.

So your saying that a prophet of God never killed anyone? what about hte wars that the jews faught in? Suluyman (alahi wasalwatu wa salaam) killed people according to the old testament, so too did dawud who actually lead an army against the palistinians. As for killing people you haven't studied the seerah so what do you know off what Muhammad (sullallahu alahi wa salaam) has done and for what reasons?

Some of the early prophes had pagan priests and others killed and stuff, but later prophest didn't do that. Jesus Christ EVER KILLED ANYONE.
Jesus said we must love our enemies and pray for those who hate us, not smite them. Jesus said even PAGANS greet their friends and not their enemies. God wants us to be better than pagans and be a better person that your Muhammed. If he is your greatest prophet and best role model, then you are truly misguided.

your only half right, it is ordered to stone adulteresses and adulterers. Go back to the jewish scripture i think you'll find that this is inline with Gods teachings, the christians have moved away from these commands of the lord, you say the teachings of prophets dont regress from pervious teachings, and as you say satan is the author of confusion.

Jesus PROGRESSED and taught us true Wisdom of God and showed us what God trukly wants rom us: Love and compassion for the misguided and sinners.

John 8:1-11
1But Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. 2At dawn he appeared again in the temple courts, where all the people gathered around him, and he sat down to teach them. 3The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group 4and said to Jesus, "Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?" 6They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.
7But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her." 8Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.
9At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. 10Jesus straightened up and asked her, "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?"
11"No one, sir," she said.
"Then neither do I condemn you," Jesus declared. "Go now and leave your life of sin."

Jesus never recorded any of his teachings, the gospel accounts are only that accounts, they contradict each other in numerous places, Muhammad's (sullalahu allahi wasalaam) teachings werent exactly the same as Jesus' (alahi wasalwatu waslaam). Jesus was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of israel, to bring them back to the torah because they had strayed from it. He is their messiah (and mine), but still they rejected him and planned to kill him, the jews killed and tortured many of their prophets, but are you going to say that they died for your sins too

Jesus was sent for all people. Prophet Isaiah said:

Isaiah 49:6
He says:
"It is too small a thing for you to be my servant
to restore the tribes of Jacob
and bring back those of Israel I have kept.
I will also make you a light for the Gentiles,
that you may bring my salvation to the ends of the earth."

Prophecy in the Jewish Tanakh verifies what is said about Christ in the Gospels.
The Word of God proves the Word of God.