Quran came from

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Quran came from

Postby g0dLAKE » Thu Jul 31, 2003 03:30 am

Basically, 80% of the old testament was written during the exile period. The new testament was written about 80 years after Jesus. The old testament and the new testament are full of contradictions. on the other hand, scientifically, these books can not be authenticated. Let me give you an example:
Matthew 9:9 :"And as Jesus passed forth from thence, he saw a man, named Matthew, sitting at the receipt of custom: and he saith unto him, Follow me. And he arose, and followed him." .
Obviously, matthew did not write that. If matthew wrote that, the whole paragraph would have been arranged differently.
I don't really see a probelm with what the old testaments is all about when it comes to YHWH, and I don't even have a problem with whatever Jesus said in the new testament according to the unknown authors. But I do have a problem with Paul, and I will soon write a post about him.
Have a good day all :)

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Postby webmaster » Thu Jul 31, 2003 12:34 pm

g0dLAKE wrote:But I do have a problem with Paul, and I will soon write a post about him.


Of course you have a problem with Paul, Paul was a Pharisee who knew the Torah, the Law and the Jewish Religion better then anyone, who Jesus Christ called to be the founder of Christian theology. People's other problem with Paul is that the Holy Spirit is shown through out his writings and exposes the entire world to it's Light which Jesus said the world hates the Light! The Holy Spirit is the Light that exposes and reveals to their heart what Sin is. The Gospel as Muslims call it is a book, but the true Gospel is JESUS CHRIST himself something that is not lost or can ever be! The 4 books call the Good News(Gospel) in the New Testament are about Jesus Christ(Gospel). But when the Holy Spirit cometh who proceedeth from the Father, he shall give a testimony of Jesus Christ. Which is exactly what Paul did.

To sin against the Holy Spirit is to confound Him with evil or it is to deny Him from pure malice. "But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Spirit shall never have forgiveness"!

"Through the Holy Spirit we are restored to paradise, led back to the Kingdom of heaven, and adopted as children, given confidence to call God "Father" and to share in Christ's grace, called children of light and given a share in eternal glory."

The Holy Spirit is also called the Holy Ghost, the Paraclete, the Advocate, the Spirit of Truth, the Spirit of God, and the Spirit of Love.

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Postby g0dLAKE » Thu Jul 31, 2003 03:22 pm

(A) Ok cool. But this has nothing to do with my question. Did Matthew write 9:9 ? Obviously not.
(B) Now, that stuff you said about the holy spirit is kinda odd....
let me illustrate:

1)Matthew 24:46 " And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? "

2) Luke 23:34 "Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do.And they parted his raiment, and cast lots."

3) John 19:27-31 "Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst.Now there was set a vessel full of vinegar: and they filled a spunge with vinegar, and put it upon hyssop, and put it to his mouth.When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost."

Those were the last words of Jesus according to the authors of those three gospels above. If the so called holy spirit was in them, at least they would have some kind of similarity of what Jesus really said before he gave up the soul.

I find it kind of funny because the first one says that Jesus thought he was betrayed by YHWH. The second, Jesus is asking YHWH to forgive those people. The third, Jesus is thirsty.
It is this what I am talking about. Those books are not authenticated. Each say something else yet the holy spirit is so unaware of the last simple words that came out of Jesus before he gave up his soul.

You can say all fancy stuff about the holy spirit. But is the holy spirit so ignorant of what Jesus really said? I don't think so. It is very obvious from the examples above that the holy spirit was never present in those authors.

One last remark (out of the subject ). The last book in the old testament is MALACHI. MALACHI lived 450 years before Jesus, such a long historical gap I guess :wink:

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Postby OMYA » Fri Aug 01, 2003 10:38 am

You know what will be the answer to that, brother?

They will say that the imprtant thing is that Jesus died on the cross, it doesn't matter what were is last words.......they will say that they prefer to believe in a book witnessed by more than ONE, not like the Quran.....although this book contains so much contradictions, yet they prefer it!!!....

And about changing the Quran, who changed any letter from it? What you are talking about Webmaster is translations.....and as you know translations are interpretation of the meanings....but for the otiginal arabic text , no single letter was changed....

Not like with bibles, how many bibles do you have, with obvious differences between them?


You have more than I don't know how many bibles, you have strong arguments among each group f christians, some are accepting more books than the others, and each group is accusing the other of being wrong.....it's not only regarding the bibles....but regarding who they worship and glorify, some worship the trinitarian god, some worship virgin Mary as mother of god...some sy they are not sure who jesus really is>>>

check this out:

http://www.satirewire.com/news/may02/jesus.shtml

I know what you'll say, that Shi'at, and Sunna'h also differ, but let me say it to you very clearly, they do not differ about who is GOD, they do not differ about any letter from the quran, the shi'at made for example 2 suras in the quran into 1 sura, but does this mean that they removed anything from the Quran, of course not, because the names of the suras are not part of the quran....

What christians argue about is that the bible(s) they have todays are the authentic ones, the approved ones, forgetting that this approval was made 325 years after the departure of Jesus from this earth during council of Nicea....do you know anyting about it?


But for muslims, the case is completely different, all muslims memorize at least small parts of the Quran, because they use it in their prayers, and this was the case since the prophet Muhamad was still alive...

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Postby g0dLAKE » Fri Aug 01, 2003 11:04 pm

This discussion has nothing to do with the Quran. the questions stated above ask about the bible. If you want to respond with something about Islam while we ask about the Bible then we'll never have a good argument, and the whole post will look like people spamming what they think of each ones' religion.

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Postby webmaster » Sat Aug 02, 2003 08:48 pm

OMYA wrote:And about changing the Quran, who changed any letter from it? What you are talking about Webmaster is translations.....and as you know translations are interpretation of the meanings....but for the otiginal arabic text , no single letter was changed....


You DON'T have the original arabic text to make that claim!

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Postby g0dLAKE » Sun Aug 03, 2003 08:18 am

As a matter of fact he does. In Turkey you can find those copies in some musuem. they even have the clothes Mohammed used to wear :wink:

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Postby webmaster » Sun Aug 03, 2003 01:09 pm

For over a decade after the death of Muhammad, the Qur'an remained primarily an oral text in the memories of the faithful.The truth is that some corruptions must have produced slight variations throughout the Islamic world. Nevertheless, the military expansion of Islam led to two direct consequences concerning the integrity of the Quranic text. First, large numbers of the faithful were dying out in the various military expeditions. Each time someone died who had the Quranic text memorized, that meant that one copy of the Qur'an disappeared forever. Second, the expansion of Islam swelled the ranks of the faithful. Many of these new converts spoke other langagues and the original Arabic of the Qur'an began to corrupt. Faced with these two threats to the integrity of the Qur'an , 'Uthman orderd a rescension of the text to be made and to serve as the definitive written version of the text. A rescension is a version of a text that is assembled from all the variant versions of that text.

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Postby g0dLAKE » Sun Aug 03, 2003 05:59 pm

Wrong, the Quran was memorized during the time of Mihammed and was also written during that time. He ordered his faithfull followers to write it down every time something new was revealed. After Muhammed's death in six months, Abu Bakr gathered all those written things and put them in a box to be reserved. During the ruling period of Uthman it was gathered into one book and dialect of mecca was used. The Quran had seven Dialects. They didn't simply just gather the book, they went around asking people who were known to be faithfull also to double check, then he oredered all the other written versions destroyed.

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Postby webmaster » Sun Aug 03, 2003 06:50 pm

g0dLAKE wrote:Wrong, the Quran was memorized during the time of Mihammed and was also written during that time. He ordered his faithfull followers to write it down every time something new was revealed. After Muhammed's death in six months, Abu Bakr gathered all those written things and put them in a box to be reserved. During the ruling period of Uthman it was gathered into one book and dialect of mecca was used. The Quran had seven Dialects. They didn't simply just gather the book, they went around asking people who were known to be faithfull also to double check, then he oredered all the other written versions destroyed.



Wrong!

Muhammad died in 632 and after the battle of al-Yamamah in 633, 'Umar ibn al-Khattab, later to become the second caliph, suggested to Abu Bakr, the first caliph, that because of the grievous loss of life in that battle, there was a very real danger of losing the Quran.
This concept comes from the hadith:
Bukhari: vol. 6, hadith 509, p. 477; book 61
Narrated Zaid-bin-Thabit:
Abu Bakr As-Siddiq sent for me when the people of Yama-ma had been killed (i.e. a number of the prophets companions who fought against Musailama). (I went to him) and found Umar bin Al-Khattab sitting with him. Abu Bakr then said to me, "Umar has come to me and said: `Casualties were heavy among the Qurra of the Qur'an (ie those who knew the Qur'an by heart) on the day of the battle of Yama-ma, and I am afraid that more heavy casualties may take place among the Qurra on other battle fields, whereby a large part of the Qur'an may be lost. Therefore I suggest that you (Abu Bakr) order that the Qur'an be collected'. I said to Umar, `How can you do something Allah's Apostle did not do?' Umar said, `By Allah, that is a good project'. Umar kept on urging me to accept his proposal till Allah opened my chest (persuaded me) for it and I began to realise the good idea which Umar had realised.

This hadith shows that Muhammad had never made a final collection of the Qur'an, for when Abu Bakr was asked to collect the Qur'an into one volume he said, "How can you do something Allah's Apostle did not do?"

Later, during the time of 'Uthman, the third caliph, a final, authorized text was prepared and completed in 651

651-632=19 years after the death of Muhammad was the final, authorized complete text prepared and completed! Uthman then burnt the rest.

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Postby g0dLAKE » Sun Aug 03, 2003 08:07 pm

True

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Postby OMYA » Mon Aug 04, 2003 11:12 am

OK...you proved by the Hadith that the Quran was preserved by the Quraa (the poeple who were able to read and who memorized the Quran.)

You are asking about 19 years after the death of Prophet Muhammad....what about 325 years till the Council of Nicea? what books were authorised for the christians......how many books were there and how many remained.....you know of course the amount of differences between the different bibles present nowadays....and how each group of christians accuse the other of being wrong......


You said that muslims don't have the original copy of Quran....look at the pictures please, they are now in the museum in Turkey.
http://www.mrooj.com/mashafs2.jpg
http://www.mrooj.com/mashafs3.jpg
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Postby g0dLAKE » Mon Aug 04, 2003 11:56 am

The original Copy of the Quran does exist. The Quran was written at the time of mohammed, was collected at the time of Abu Baker and was gathered into a book in Uthman's time. Out of faith they also verified with people who memorized it.

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Postby webmaster » Tue Aug 05, 2003 12:17 am

g0dLAKE wrote:The original Copy of the Quran does exist. The Quran was written at the time of mohammed, was collected at the time of Abu Baker and was gathered into a book in Uthman's time. Out of faith they also verified with people who memorized it.


Sorry but the Original Copy of the Quran does not exist because there never was one. The Quran was not written down at the time of Muhammad. It was bits and pieces or verbal only. The entire thing was not thrown together into 1 OFFICIAL book until 651ad, 19 years after Muhammad died.


How can "a large part of the Qur'an may be lost" by just men dieing on the battlefield if it was written down? Simply because it wasn't written down!


Bukhari: vol. 6, hadith 509, p. 477; book 61
Narrated Zaid-bin-Thabit:

Abu Bakr As-Siddiq sent for me
when the people of Yama-ma had been killed
(i.e. a number of the prophets companions who fought against Musailama).

(I went to him) and found Umar bin Al-Khattab sitting with him.

Abu Bakr then said to me,
"Umar has come to me and said:
`Casualties were heavy among the Qurra of the Qur'an
(ie those who knew the Qur'an by heart)
on the day of the battle of Yama-ma,
and I am afraid that more heavy casualties
may take place among the Qurra
on other battle fields,
whereby a large part of the Qur'an may be lost.

Therefore I suggest that you (Abu Bakr)
order that the Qur'an be collected'.

I said to Umar,
`How can you do something Allah's Apostle did not do?'

Umar said,
`By Allah, that is a good project'.

Umar kept on urging me to accept his proposal till Allah opened my chest (persuaded me) for it and I began to realise the good idea which Umar had realised.


Therefore I suggest that you (Abu Bakr) order that the Qur'an be collected'.
It was collected from men on the battlefield? How was it collected? If men die on the battlefield then you are not going to lose the Quran. Unless it was not written down! What was collected was the verbal quran which was then written down!



To avoid the danger of losing the knowledge of the Quran, a suggestion was made by Umar Bin-Khattab R.A which was accepted. A renowned scribe of the Prophet by the name of Zaid Bin-Tabit R.A was selected to compile the collection of the Quran from all the companions who had remembered the whole of it and from all that was written down piecemeal.


The first person to collect the entire Quran was Caliph Abu-Bakr Siddiq R.A and the first person to put it in writing was Zaid Bin-Tabit R.A. The collection of text thus prepared by Abu-Bakr R.A was known as Al-Umm, meaning the “Mother”. This complete copy of the Quran remained with Abu-Bakr Siddiq R.A until he died, then with Umar Bin-Khattab R.A until his death. Then Hafsa R.A, the daughter of Umar R.A and a wife of the Prophet Muhammad S.A.W.

The variation in dialects in recitation of the Quran became more problematic for large numbers of non-Arabs who entered the fold of Islam after the conquest of the Roman and Persian Empires. To avoid such a problem, the third Caliph Sayyedin Uthman R.A decided to instigate another collection of the Quran to be written in perfect Quraishi dialect.
Uthman R.A requested the first copy of the Quran Al-Umm from Hafsa to be rewritten by three well known Quraishi companions in whose dialects and tongue the Quran was originally revealed. The first collection was then given back to Hafsa.


The second collection thus prepared was known as Al-Imam. Six to eight copies were prepared and sent to Islamic provinces of the time. One copy was kept by Uthman R.A for his personal use. The original copy was kept in Medina. Two of these copies can still be found in the libraries of Istanbul and Tashkand.

AND EVERYTHING ELSE WAS BURNED!

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Postby g0dLAKE » Tue Aug 05, 2003 01:33 am

It is written also in the Hadith that Muhammed ordered every revealation be written down. COLLECT in arabic means put it all in one peace, and thats what Abu Bakr did. Gathered all the pieces of the written stuff and verified with people who memorized it and put it in a box. It's true that some died on the battle field but the most famous people who memorized still lived and the closest muhammed desciples still lived many years ahead.The message from Khattab was that we need to put it in one piece and be able to verify with memorizers to make sure it's accurate.
Muhammed never gathered the Quran in one piece but still ordered it written down.

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Postby webmaster » Tue Aug 05, 2003 02:12 am

g0dLAKE wrote:It is written also in the Hadith that Muhammed ordered every revealation be written down.


Bukhari: vol. 6, hadith 509, p. 477; book 61
Narrated Zaid-bin-Thabit:

Abu Bakr As-Siddiq sent for me
when the people of Yama-ma had been killed
(i.e. a number of the prophets companions who fought against Musailama).

(I went to him) and found Umar bin Al-Khattab sitting with him.

Abu Bakr then said to me,
"Umar has come to me and said:
`Casualties were heavy among the Qurra of the Qur'an
(ie those who knew the Qur'an by heart)
on the day of the battle of Yama-ma,
and I am afraid that more heavy casualties
may take place among the Qurra
on other battle fields,
whereby a large part of the Qur'an may be lost.

Therefore I suggest that you (Abu Bakr)
order that the Qur'an be collected'.

I said to Umar,
`How can you do something Allah's Apostle did not do?'

Umar said,
`By Allah, that is a good project'.

Umar kept on urging me to accept his proposal till Allah opened my chest (persuaded me) for it and I began to realise the good idea which Umar had realised.

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Postby g0dLAKE » Tue Aug 05, 2003 02:29 am

Which is gather it all in one piece

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Postby webmaster » Tue Aug 05, 2003 02:48 am

But if Muhammad ordered every revelation to be written down then we are back at

If it was collected from men on the battlefield how was it collected? If men die on the battlefield then you are not going to lose the Quran. Unless of course it was not written down! What was collected was the verbal quran which was then written down!

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Postby webmaster » Tue Apr 06, 2004 10:33 pm

The Quran was not written down or in order at the time of Muhammad's death. The entire thing was not thrown together into 1 OFFICIAL book until 651 AD, some 19 years after Muhammad death. Which was then re-translated to get perfect Arabic(Quraishi dialect) with no grammar or language contradictions.


Bukhari: vol. 6, hadith 509, p. 477; book 61
Narrated Zaid-bin-Thabit:

Abu Bakr As-Siddiq sent for me
when the people of Yama-ma had been killed
(i.e. a number of the prophets companions who fought against Musailama).

(I went to him) and found Umar bin Al-Khattab sitting with him.

Abu Bakr then said to me,
"Umar has come to me and said:
`Casualties were heavy among the Qurra of the Qur'an
(ie those who knew the Qur'an by heart)
on the day of the battle of Yama-ma,
and I am afraid that more heavy casualties
may take place among the Qurra
on other battle fields,
whereby a large part of the Qur'an may be lost.

Therefore I suggest that you (Abu Bakr)
order that the Qur'an be collected'.

I said to Umar,
`How can you do something Allah's Apostle did not do?'

Umar said,
`By Allah, that is a good project'.

Umar kept on urging me to accept his proposal till Allah opened my chest (persuaded me) for it and I began to realise the good idea which Umar had realised.


Therefore I suggest that you (Abu Bakr) order that the Qur'an be collected'.
It was collected from men on the battlefield? How was it collected?
If men die on the battlefield then you are not going to lose the Quran.
Unless it was not written down!
What was collected was the verbal quran which was then written down!


To avoid the danger of losing the knowledge of the Quran, a suggestion was made by Umar Bin-Khattab R.A which was accepted. A renowned scribe of the Prophet by the name of Zaid Bin-Tabit R.A was selected to compile the collection of the Quran from all the companions who had remembered the whole of it and from all that was written down piecemeal.


The first person to collect the entire Quran was Caliph Abu-Bakr Siddiq R.A and the first person to put it in writing was Zaid Bin-Tabit R.A. The collection of text thus prepared by Abu-Bakr R.A was known as Al-Umm, meaning the “Mother”. This complete copy of the Quran remained with Abu-Bakr Siddiq R.A until he died, then with Umar Bin-Khattab R.A until his death. Then Hafsa R.A, the daughter of Umar R.A and a wife of the Prophet Muhammad S.A.W.

The variation in dialects in recitation of the Quran became more problematic for large numbers of non-Arabs who entered the fold of Islam after the conquest of the Roman and Persian Empires. To avoid such a problem, the third Caliph Sayyedin Uthman R.A decided to [b]instigate another collection of the Quran to be written in perfect Quraishi dialect.
Uthman R.A requested the first copy of the Quran Al-Umm from Hafsa to be rewritten by three well known Quraishi companions in whose dialects and tongue the Quran was originally revealed. The first collection was then given back to Hafsa. [/b]

The second collection thus prepared was known as Al-Imam. Six to eight copies were prepared and sent to Islamic provinces of the time. One copy was kept by Uthman R.A for his personal use. The original copy was kept in Medina. Two of these copies can still be found in the libraries of Istanbul and Tashkand.

AND EVERY OTHER COPY WAS BURNED!

In 622 Muslim pilgrims from Medina invited Muhammad to come to their city to escape the growing hostility of the Meccan hierarchy. With Muhammad's arrival in Medina the city became the capital of an expanding Muslim Empire. After Muhammad's death Abu Bakr was appointed as caliph and continued to rule from Medina as did his two successors Umar and Uthman. Under Ali the newly established town of Kufa replaced Medina as the capital. Medina remained in a secondary position under the Umayyads although they did develop it as a religious centre. In 1256 the mosque suffered from a major fire which destroyed the roof, the Quran of Uthman and the minbar of the prophet.



http://answering-islam.org/Quran/Text/criticaltext.html
http://answering-islam.org/Quran/Text/index.html
On the other hand, Muslim have the well known propaganda statement that there are no variants in the Qur'an at all and the Qur'an has been the same text even to the detail of each single letter and that this was so from the very beginning. More educated Muslims know that this is not true, but the average Muslim is made to believe this objectively wrong claim.


THE INITIAL COLLECTION OF THE QUR'AN TEXT
http://www.exmuslim.com/forum/viewtopic ... thman#3985
THE UTHMANIC RECENSION OF THE QUR'AN
http://www.exmuslim.com/forum/viewtopic ... thman#3986
THE CODICES OF IBN MAS'UD AND UBAYY IBN KA'B
http://www.exmuslim.com/forum/viewtopic ... thman#3987


I will ask again where are all of these Quran versions at?
Where are the photocopies at?
Easy to say something is perfect when it is hid in a dark room somewhere!



Uthman borrowed Hafsa's copy (which as mentioned earlier was originally Abu Bakr's copy) Four companions, including Zaid bin Thabit, were asked to rewrite the script in perfect copies.Narrated Anas bin Malik: Hudhaifa bin Al-Yaman came Uthman at the time when the people of Sham and the people of Iraq were waging war to conquer Arminya and Adharbijan, Hudhaifa was afraid of their (the people of Sham and Iraq) differences in the recitation of the Qur'an, so he said to Uthman 'O chief of the believers! Save this nation before they differ about the Book (Qur'an) as Jews and the Christians did before'.

So this was satan's plan all along huh?

So Uthman sent a message to Hafsa saying, 'Send us the manuscripts of the Qur'an so that we may compile the Qur'anic materials in perfect copies and return the manuscripts to you'. Hafsa sent it to Uthman. Uthman then ordered Zaid bin Thabit, Abdullah bin Az-Zubair Said bin AI-As and Abdur Rahman bin Harith bin Hisham to rewrite the manuscripts in perfect copies.

Prefect grammar you mean!

Uthman said to the three Quraishi men, 'In case you disagree with Zaid bin Thabit on any point in the Qur'an, then write it in the dialect of Quraish as the Qur'an was revealed in their tongue'. They did so, and when they had written many copies, Uthman returned the original manuscripts to Hafsa. Uthman sent to every Muslim province one copy of what they had copied, and ordered that all the other Qur'anic materials whether written in fragmentary manuscripts or whole copies, be burnt. Zaid bin Thabit added, 'A verse from Surah al-Ahzab was missed by me when we copied the Qur'an and I used to hear Allah's Apostle reciting it. So we searched for it and found it with Khuzaima bin Thabit Al-Ansari (That verse was):'Among the Believers are men who have been true in their covenant with Allah' (33: 23).[Bukhari]

Burn why? What was there to hide?

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Postby webmaster » Tue Apr 06, 2004 10:42 pm

THE QUR'AN'S MANUSCRIPT EVIDENCE:

A manuscript analysis of the Qur'an does present us with unique problems not encountered with the Bible. While we can find multiple manuscripts for the Bible written 700-900 years earlier, at a time when durable paper was not even used, the manuscripts for the Qur'an within the century in which it was purported to have been compiled, the seventh century, simply do not exist. Prior to 750 A.D. (thus for 100 years after Muhammad's death) we have no verifiable Muslim documents which can give us a window into this formative period of Islam (Wansbrough 1978:58-59). In fact the primary sources which we possess are from 150-300 years after the events which they describe, and therefore are quite distant from those events (Nevo 1994:108; Wansbrough 1978:119; Crone 1987:204). For that reason they are, for all practical purposes, secondary sources, as they rely on other material, much of which no longer exists. We simply do not have any "account from the Islamic' community during the [initial] 150 years or so, between the first Arab conquests [the early 7th century] and the appearance, with the sira-maghazi narratives, of the earliest Islamic literature" [the late 8th century] (Wansbrough 1978:119).

We should expect to find, in those intervening 150 years, at least remnants of evidence for the development of the old Arab religion towards Islam (i.e. Muslim traditions); yet we find nothing (Nevo 1994:108; Crone 1980:5-8). The documentary evidence at our disposal, prior to 750 A.D. "consists almost entirely of rather dubious citations in later compilations" (Humphreys 1991:80). Consequently, we have no reliable proof that the later Muslim traditions speak truly of the life of Muhammad, or even of the Qur'an (Schacht 1949:143-154). In fact we have absolutely no evidence for the original Qur'anic text (Schimmel 1984:4). Nor do we have any of the alleged four copies which were made of this recension and sent to Mecca, Medina, Basra and Damascus (see Gilchrist's arguments in his book Jam' al-Qur'an, 1989, pp. 140-154, as well as Ling's & Safadi's The Qur'an 1976, pp. 11-17).

Even if these copies had somehow disintegrated with age (as some Muslims now allege), there would surely be some fragments of the documents which we could refer to. By the end of the seventh century Islam had expanded from Spain in the west to India in the east. The Qur'an (according to tradition) was the centrepiece of their faith. Certainly within that enormous sphere of influence there would be some Qur'anic documents or manuscripts which still exist till this day. Yet, there is nothing anywhere from that period at all.

With the enormous number of manuscripts available for the Christian scriptures, all compiled long before the time Muhammad was born, it is incredible that Islam cannot provide a single corroborated manuscript of their most holy book from even within a century of their founder's birth.

(1) Sammarkand and Topkapi MSS; Kufic and Ma'il Scripts:

In response, Muslims contend that they do have a number of these "Uthmanic recensions," these original copies from the seventh century, still in their possession. There are two documents which do hold some credibility, and to which many Muslims refer. These are the Samarkand Manuscript, which is located in the Tashkent library, Uzbekistan (in the southern part of the former Soviet Union), and the Topkapi Manuscript, which can be found in the Topkapi Museum, in Istanbul, Turkey.

These two documents are indeed old, and there has been ample etymological analysis done on them by scriptologists, as well as experts in Arabic calligraphy to warrant their discussion. What most Muslims do not realize is that these two manuscripts are written in the Kufic Script, a script which according to modern Qur'anic manuscript experts, such as Martin Lings and Yasin Hamid Safadi, did not appear until late into the eighth century, and was not in use at all in Mecca and Medina in the seventh century (Lings & Safadi 1976:12-13,17; Gilchrist 1989:145-146; 152-153).

The reasons for this are quite simple. Consider: The Kufic script, properly known as al-Khatt al-Kufi, derives its name from the city of Kufa in Iraq (Lings & Safadi 1976:17). It would be rather odd for this script to have been adopted as the official script for the "mother of all books" as it is a script which had its origins in a city that had only been conquered by the Arabs a mere 10-14 years earlier.

It is important to note that the city of Kufa, which is in present day Iraq, was a city which would have been Sassanid or Persian before that time (637-8 A.D.). Thus, while Arabic would have been known there, it would not have been the predominant language, let alone the predominant script until much later.

We know in fact, that the Kufic script reached its perfection during the late eighth century (up to one hundred and fifty years after Muhammad's death) and thereafter it became widely used throughout the Muslim world (Lings & Safadi 1976:12,17; Gilchrist 1989:145-146). This makes sense, since after 750 A.D. the Abbasids controlled Islam, and due to their Persian background were headquartered in the Kufa and Baghdad areas. They would thus have wanted their script to dominate. Having been themselves dominated by the Umayyads (who were based in Damascus) for around 100 years, it would now be quite understandable that an Arabic script which originated in their area of influence, such as the Kufic script would evolve into that which we find in these two documents mentioned here.

Therefore, it stands to reason that both the Topkapi and Samarkand Manuscripts, because they are written in the Kufic script, could not have been written earlier than 150 years after the Uthmanic Recension was supposedly compiled; at the earliest the late 700s or early 800s (Gilchrist 1989:144-147).

We do know that there were two earlier Arabic scripts which most modern Muslims are not familiar with. These are the al-Ma'il Script, developed in the Hijaz, particularly in Mecca and Medina, and the Mashq Script, also developed in Medina (Lings & Safadi 1976:11; Gilchrist 1989:144-145). The al-Ma'il Script came into use in the seventh century and is easily identified, as it was written at a slight angle (see the example on page 16 of Gilchrist's Jam' al-Qur'an, 1989). In fact the word al-Ma'il means "slanting." This script survived for about two centuries before falling into disuse.

The Mashq Script also began in the seventh century, but continued to be used for many centuries. It is more horizontal in form and can be distinguished by its somewhat cursive and leisurely style (Gilchrist 1989:144). There are those who believe that the Mashq script was a forerunner to the later Kufic script, as there are similarities between the two.

If the Qur'an had been compiled at this time in the seventh century, then one would expect it to have been written in either the Ma'il or Mashq script.

Interestingly, we do have a Qur'an written in the Ma'il script, and considered to be the earliest Qur'an in our possession today. Yet it is not found in either Istanbul or Tashkent, but, ironically, it resides in the British Museum in London (Lings & Safadi 1976:17,20; Gilchrist 1989:16,144). It has been dated towards the end of the eighth century (790 A.D.) by Martin Lings, the former curator for the manuscripts of the British Museum, who is himself, a practising Muslim.

Therefore, with the help of script analysis, we are quite certain that there is no known manuscript of the Qur'an which we possess today which can be dated from the seventh century (Gilchrist 1989:147-148,153).

Furthermore, virtually all the earliest Qur'anic manuscript fragments which we do possess cannot be dated earlier than 100 years after the time of Muhammad. In her book Calligraphy and Islamic Culture, Annemarie Schimmel underlines this point when she states that apart from the recently discovered [Korans] in Sanaa, "the earliest datable fragments go back to the first quarter of the eighth century." (Schimmels 1984:4)

From the evidence we possess, therefore, it would seem improbable that any portions of the Qur'an supposedly copied out at Uthman's direction have survived. What we are left with is the intervening 150 years for which we cannot account.

(2) Talmudic Sources in the Qur'an:

Another problem with manuscript evidence for the Qur'an is that of the heretical Talmudic accounts found within its passages. Possibly the greatest puzzlement for Christians who pick up the Qur'an and read it are the numerous seemingly Biblical stories which bear little similarity to the Biblical accounts. The Qur'anic stories include many distortions, amendments, and some bizarre additions to the familiar stories we have known and learned. So, we ask, where did these stories come from, if not from the previous scriptures?

Fortunately, we do have much Jewish and Christian apocryphal literature (some of it from the Talmud), dating from the second century A.D. with which we can compare many of these stories. It is when we do so, that we find remarkable similarities between these fables or folk tales of the later Jewish and Christian communities, and the stories which are recounted in the Qur'an (note:Talmudic material taken from Feinburg 1993:1162-1163).

The Jewish Talmudic writings were compiled in the second century A.D., from oral laws (Mishnah) and traditions of those laws (Gemara). These laws and traditions were created to adapt the law of Moses (the Torah) to the changing times. They also included interpretations and discussions of the laws (the Halakhah and Haggadah etc.). Most Jews do not consider the Talmudic writings authoritative, but they read them nonetheless with interest for the light they cast on the times in which they were written.

Each generation embellished the accounts, or at times incorporated local folklore, so that it was difficult to know what the original stories contained. There were even those among the Jews who believed that these Talmudic writings had been added to the "preserved tablets" (i.e. the Ten Commandments, and the Torah which were kept in the Ark of the Covenant), and were believed to be replicas of the heavenly book (Feinburg 1993:1163).

Some orientalist scholars believe that when later Islamic compilers came onto the scene, in the eighth to ninth centuries A.D., they merely added this body of literature to the nascent Qur'anic material. It is therefore, not surprising that a number of these traditions from Judaism were inadvertently accepted by later redactors, and incorporated into the holy writings' of Islam.

There are quite a few stories which have their root in second century (A.D.) Jewish apocryphal literature; stories such as the murder of Abel by Cain in sura 5:31-32, borrowed from the Targum of Jonathan-ben-Uzziah and the Mishnah Sanhedrin 4:5; or the story of Abraham, the idols and the fiery furnace in sura 21:51-71, taken from the Midrash Rabbah; or the amusing story found in sura 27:17-44, of Solomon, his talking Hoopoo bird, and the queen of Sheba who lifts her skirt when mistaking a mirrored floor for water, taken from the 2nd Targum of Esther.

There are other instances where we find both apocryphal Jewish and Christian literatures within the Qur'anic text. The account of Mt. Sinai being lifted up and held over the heads of the Jews as a threat for rejecting the law (sura 7:171) comes from the second century Jewish apocryphal book, The Abodah Sarah. The odd accounts of the early childhood of Jesus in the Qur'an can be traced to a number of Christian apocryphal writings: the Palm tree which provides for the anguish of Mary after Jesus's birth (sura 19:22-26) comes from The Lost Books of the Bible; while the account of the infant Jesus creating birds from clay (sura 3:49) comes from Thomas' Gospel of the Infancy of Jesus Christ. The story of the baby Jesus talking (sura 19:29-33) can be traced to Arabic apocryphal fable from Egypt named The first Gospel of the Infancy of Jesus Christ.

In sura 17:1 we have the report of Muhammad's journey by night from the sacred mosque to the farthest mosque.' From later traditions we find this aya refers to Muhammad ascending up to the seventh heaven, after a miraculous night journey (the Mi'raj) from Mecca to Jerusalem, on a "winged-horse" called Buraq. More detail is furnished us in the Mishkat al Masabih. We can trace the story back to a fictitious book called The Testament of Abraham, written around 200 B.C., in Egypt, and then translated into Greek and Arabic. Another analogous account is that of The Secrets of Enoch ( chapter 1:4-10 and 2:1), which predates the Qur'an by four centuries. Yet a further similar account is largely modelled on the story contained in the old Persian book entitled Arta-i Viraf Namak, telling how a pious young Zoroastrian ascended to the skies, and, on his return, related what he had seen, or professed to have seen (Pfander 1835:295-296).

The Qur'anic description of Hell resembles the descriptions of hell in the Homilies of Ephraim, a Nestorian preacher of the sixth century (Glubb 1971:36).

The author of the Qur'an in suras 42:17 and 101:6-9 possibly utilized The Testament of Abraham to teach that a scale or balance will be used on the day of judgment to weigh good and bad deeds in order to determine whether one goes to heaven or to hell.

It is important to remember that the Talmudic accounts were not considered by the orthodox Jews of that period as authentic for one very good reason: they were not in existence at the council of Jamnia in 80 A.D. when the Old Testament was canonized. Neither were the Christian apocryphal material considered canonical, as they were not attested as authoritative both prior to and after the council of Nicea in 325 A.D. Thus these accounts have always been considered as heretical by both the Jewish and Christian orthodox believers, and the literate ever since. It is for this reason that we find it deeply suspicious that the apocryphal accounts should have made their way into a book claiming to be the final revelation from the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

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Postby webmaster » Tue Apr 06, 2004 10:48 pm

The Qur'an

Apologetic Paper (Joseph Smith) - May 1995, cont.

B: The Authority for the Qur'an

The Arabic word 'Qur'an' is derived from the root 'qara'a', which means "to read" or "to recite." This was the command which the angel Gabriel supposedly asked Muhammad three times to do when he confronted him in July or August 610 C.E. in the Hira cave, situated three miles north-east of Mecca (Mishkat IV p.354).

According to Muslims the Qur'an is the final revelation from Allah. In Arabic the Qur'an is also referred to as 'Al-Kitab' (the book), 'Al-furkan' (the distinction), 'Al-mas'haf' (the scroll), and 'Al-dikhr' (the warning), as well as other names.

For those who like statistics, you may be interested to know that the Qur'an consists of 114 chapters (suras), made up of 30 parts, 6,616 verses (ayas), 77,943 words, and 338,606 letters. According to Islamic scholars 86 of the suras were revealed in Mecca, while 28 suras were revealed at Medina. Yet, as portions of some suras were recited in both places, you will continue to find a few of the scholars still debating the origins for a number of them. The suras vary in length and are known by a name or title, which are taken from the general theme of that sura, or a particular subject, person or event mentioned in it. This theme may not necessarily appear at the beginning of the sura, however.

Each verse or portion of the sura is known as an 'aya', which means "miracle" in Arabic. Muhammad claimed that the Qur'an was his sole miracle, though the Qur'an did not exist in its written form during his lifetime. In fact much of the controversy concerning the chronology of the Qur'an can be blamed on the fact that he was not around to verify its final collation. But more about that later. To begin with, let's start with the question of revelation: how does Islam understand this concept, and could their view on it be one of the reasons we don't see eye-to-eye concerning our two scriptures?

C: The Revelation of the Qur'an

Islam, like Christianity, believes that God (Allah) desires to communicate with humanity. But, unlike Christianity, Islam tells us that Allah is remote, so he must not reveal himself to humanity at a personal level. It is for that reason that Allah is forced to employ appointed prophets, who are known as, rasul, meaning "the sent one." These prophets are mere humans and so finite, though they are given a special status, and consequently protected by God.

Because Allah is so transcendent and unapproachable, revelation in Islam is simply one-way: from God to humanity, via the prophets. While each prophet supposedly fulfilled his mission by producing a book, the final revelation, and therefore the most important, according to Muslims, is that given to the final prophet Muhammad: the Qur'an.

The Qur'an, Muslims believe, is an exact word-for-word copy of God's final revelation, which are found on the original tablets that have always existed in heaven. Muslims point to sura 85:21-22 which says "Nay this is a glorious Qur'an, (inscribed) in a tablet preserved." Islamic scholars contend that this passage refers to the tablets which were never created. They believe that the Qur'an is an absolutely identical copy of the eternal heavenly book, even so far as the punctuation, titles and divisions of chapters is concerned (why modern translations still can't agree what those divisions are is evident when trying to refer to an aya for comparison between one version and another).

According to Muslim tradition, these 'revelations' were sent down (Tanzil or Nazil) (sura 17:85), to the lowest of the seven heavens at the time of the month of Ramadan, during the night of power or destiny ('lailat al Qadr') (Pfander, 1910:262). From there it was revealed to Muhammad in instalments, as need arose, via the angel Gabriel (sura 25:32). Consequently, every letter and every word is free from any human influence, which gives the Qur'an an aura of authority, even holiness, and must be revered as such.

Left unsaid is the glaring irony that the claim for nazil revelation of the Qur'an, comes from one source alone, the man to which it was supposedly revealed, Muhammad. There are no outside witnesses before or at the time who can corroborate Muhammad's testimony; nor are miracles provided to substantiate his claims.

In fact, the evidences for the authority of God's revelation, which the Bible emphatically produces are completely absent in the Qur'an, namely, that the revelation of God must speak in the name of God, Yahweh, that the message must conform to revelation which has gone before, that it must make predictions which are verifiable, and that the revelation must be accompanied by signs and wonders in order to give it authority as having come from God. Because these are missing in the case of the prophet Muhammad and of the Qur'an, for those of us who are Christians, it seems indeed that it is the Qur'an and not the Bible which turns out to be the most human of documents.

Yet, Muslims continue to believe that the exact Arabic words which we find in the Qur'an are those which exist eternally on the original stone tablets, in heaven. This, according to them, makes the Qur'an the "Mother of books" (refer to sura 43:3). Muslims believe there is no other book or revelation which can compare. In fact, in both suras 2:23 and 10:37-38 we find the challenge to, "Present some other book of equal beauty," (a challenge which we will deal with later).

This final revelation, according to Islam, is transcendent, and consequently, beyond the capacity for conjecture, or criticism. What this means is that the Qur'an which we possess today is and has always been final and pure, which prohibits any possibility for verification or falsification of the text.

Because Allah is revered much as a master is to a slave, so his word is to be revered likewise. One does not question its pronouncements any more than one would question a masters pronouncements.

What then are we to do with the problems which do exist in the Qur'an? If it is such a transcendent book, as Muslims claim, then it should stand up to any criticism. Yet, what are we to do with the many contradictions, the factual errors and bizarre claims it makes? Furthermore, when we look more carefully at the text that we have in our possession today, which is supposedly that of Uthman's final codification of the Qur'an, compiled by Zaid ibn Thabit, from a copy of Hafsah's manuscript, we are puzzled by the differences between it and the four co-existing codices of Abdullah Masoud, Abu Musa, and Ubayy, all of which have deviations and deletions between them.

Another problem concerns its very pronouncements. Because of its seeming transcendency we may not question its content, much of which, according to Muslim Tradition, originates from the later Medinan period of Muhammad's life (the last 10 years), and so consists of basic rules and regulations for social, economical, and political structures, many of which have been borrowed from existing legal traditions of the Byzantine and Persian cultures, leaving us with a seventh-ninth century document which has not been easily adapted to the twentieth century.

As Christians, this question is important. The Bible, by contrast is not simply a book of rigid rules and regulations which takes a particular historical context and absolutizes it for all ages and all peoples. Instead, we find in the Bible broad principles with which we can apply to each age and each culture (such as worship styles, music, dress, all of which can and are being contextualized in the variety of cultures which the church finds itself today).

As a result the Bible is much more adaptable and constructive for our societies. Since we do not have a concept of Nazil revelation, we have no fear of delving into and trying to understand the context of what the author was trying to say (the process of historical analysis). But one would expect such from a revelation provided by a personal God who intended to be actively involved in the transmission of His revelation.

This, I feel is the crux of the problem between Islam's and Christianity's views on revelation.

Christians believe that God is interested in revealing Himself to His creation. Since the time of creation He has continued to do so in various ways. His beauty, power and intricate wisdom is displayed in the universe all around us, so that humanity cannot say that they have never known God. That is what some theologians like to call "general revelation."

But God also chooses to reveal Himself more specifically; what those same scholars call "special revelation." This He does by means of prophets, who are sent with a specific word for a specific time, a specific place, and a specific people. Unfortunately, much of what was revealed to those people was quickly forgotten. The human mind has a remarkable capacity to be completely independent of God, and will only take the time to think of Him (if at all) when they are in a crisis, or near to death.

Therefore, God saw the plight of His creation and in His love and compassion for His creation, decided to do something about it.

God decided to reveal Himself directly, without any intervening agent, to His creation. He did this also to correct that relationship which had been broken with humanity at the very beginning, in the garden of Eden. This is consistent with a God who is personally involved with His creation.

Simply speaking, God Himself came to reveal Himself to humanity. He took upon Himself the form of a human, spoke our language, used our forms of expression, and became an example of His truth to those who were His witnesses, so that we who are finite and human would better understand Him who is infinite and divine and beyond all human understanding.

As we read in Hebrews 1:1-2:

"God, who at various times and in diverse ways spoke in past times to the fathers by the prophets, has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, by whom also He made the worlds."

In Jesus Christ we see God perfectly revealed to humanity. This goes beyond special revelation. This is revelation personified!

The Bible, therefore, introduces the world to Jesus Christ. It is, for all practical purposes, a secondary revelation. It is simply the witness to the revelation of God.

The Bible tells us about His life, mentioning what He said and did, and then expounds these teachings for the world today. It is merely a book which points to a person. Therefore, we can use the book to learn about the person, but ultimately, we will need to go to the final revelation, Jesus Himself to truly understand who God is.

And here is where revelation becomes specific for us today, because God did not simply stop revealing Himself with Jesus Christ. He still desires to be in relationship with His creation, and has continued to reveal Himself in an incarnational way. His ongoing revelation continues from that time right up until the present as He reveals Himself by means of Himself, the Holy Spirit, the comforter, convicting us of guilt in regard to sin, guiding us into all truth, telling us what is yet to come, and bringing glory to Jesus (John 16:7-15).

Jesus is the truest revelation. We find out about Him in the Bible. Yet, that is not all, for the Holy Spirit continues to make Him known to us even today, and that is why the scriptures become alive and meaningful for us.

For Muslims this must sound confusing, and possibly threatening, as it brings God's infinite revelation down from its transcendent pedestal, and presents it within the context of finite humanity. Perhaps to better explain this truth to them we may want to change tactics somewhat. Instead of comparing the Qur'an with the Bible, as most apologists tend to do, it might be helpful to compare the Qur'an with Jesus, as they are both considered to be the Word of God, and stand as God's truest revelation to humanity.

The Bible (especially the New Testament), consequently, is the testimony of Jesus's companions, testifying about what He said and did. To take this a step further, we could possibly compare the Bible with their Hadiths, or the Tarikh, the Sira of the prophet and the Tafsir, all of which comment upon the history and teachings of the prophet and the Qur'an. While this may help us explain the Bible to a Muslim we must be careful to underline that though the New Testament speaks mostly about what Jesus said, about His message, it has little to say concerning how He lived. On the other hand the Hadiths and such talk primarily about the life of Muhammad, what he did, with here and there interpretations of what he said.

In this light there is no comparison between the two revelations, Jesus and the Qur'an. The Qur'an, a mere book with all its faults and inadequacies, its very authenticity weakly resting on the shoulders of one finite man, who himself has few credentials as a prophet, is no match against Jesus, the man, revered by Muslims and Christians alike as sinless, who, according to His sinless Word is God Himself, and therefore, the perfect revelation.

It may be helpful to use this argument to introduce Jesus to a Muslim, rather then begin with His deity, as it explains the purpose of Jesus before attempting to define who He is; in other words explaining the why before the how.

D: The Inspiration of the Qur'an

That then leads us into the question of inspiration. We have already said that God (or Allah) requires agents in the form of prophets to communicate his truth to his creation. Yet how does Allah communicate his thoughts and will to these prophets? How is revelation carried out?

The Arabic term which best explains the process of revelation is the word 'Wahy', which can mean 'divine inspiration.' According to the Qur'an the primary aim of Wahy is two fold:

1. To prove Muhammad's call to prophet-hood (according to suras 13:30 and 34:50), and

2. To give him authority to warn people (according to sura 6:19).

Concerning the inspiration of the previous prophets, we are told very little.

3. Three methods by which Allah communicates to his creation:

In sura 42:51 we find Wahy explained as such:

"It is not fitting for a man that Allah should speak to him except by inspiration, or from behind a veil, or by the sending of a Messenger to reveal, with Allah's permission, what Allah wills, for He is most high, most wise."

According to the above sura there are three methods by which Allah communicates to his creation:

a. by direct inspiration

b. from behind a veil and

c. through a messenger (the implication is that of an angelic being).

4) HOW MUHAMMED RECEIVED HIS REVELATIONS

Since the Qur'an tells us little concerning how Muhammad received his revelations, we refer to those who compiled the Sira of the prophet, men like Ibn Ishaq, Ibn Hisham, Ibn Athir, and the Turkish writer 'Ali Halabi to get a clearer insight. Their writings list seven forms of the experience of Wahy by Muhammad, some of which are quite revealing:

a. While the Wahy (inspiration) lasted, according to his wife Aisha, there were the sounds of bells ringing as he sweated profusely. He would become greatly perturbed and his face would change (Sahih Muslim). Muslim Tradition tells us that sometimes he would shiver and swoon, his mouth would foam, and he would roar like a camel (Mishkat IV p.359). At other times when the inspiration descended there was the sound near his face like the buzzing of bees (from 'Umar ibnu'l Khattab), while at other times he felt a tremendous headache (from Abu Hurairah). Many times it seemed to his friends that he swooned and looked like someone intoxicated (Pfander 1910:346).

b. Wahy came to him in dreams.

c. Inspiration also came to him in visions while he was awake.

d. At times he saw an angel in the form of a young man (Pfander 1910:345).

e. At other times he saw angels in angelic form (sura 42:51).

f. During one evening (known as the Mi'raj) he was raptured through the Seven Heavens (according to the Hadith, Muhammad was taken to the highest heaven where he received the command to pray five times a day).

g. Allah spoke to him from behind a veil (sura 42:51).

When we look at all these examples of inspiration a picture begins to form, of a man who either had a vivid imagination, or was possessed, or suffered from a disease such as epilepsy. Muhammad, according to 'Amr ibn Sharhabil, mentioned to his wife Khadijah that he feared he was possessed by demons and wondered whether others might consider him possessed by jinn (Pfander 1910:345).

Even during his childhood Muhammad was afflicted with similar problems, causing concern to his friends who felt he had "become afflicted" (Pfander 1910:347).

Anyone acquainted with occult phenomena would be aware of the conditions of those who participate in seances. Occult phenomena in childhood, daydreams, the hearing of voices and calls, nightly meditations, excessive perspiration during trances and the subsequent exhaustion and swoon-like condition; as well as the ringing of bells are quite common. Even the intoxicated condition resembles someone who is in a reasonably deep trance.

Also revealing is the report by Al Waqidi that Muhammad had such an aversion to the form of the cross that he would break everything brought into the house with a shape of the cross on it (Nehls 1990:61).

What we must ask is whether these manifestations point to true occurrences of inspiration, or whether they were simply a disease, or a condition of demonization? Historians inform us that certain great men (many of whom tended to be great warriors, such as Julius Caesar, the great Roman general, as well as the emperor Peter the Great of Russia, and Napoleon Bonaparte, the French Emperor), all exhibited the same symptoms mentioned above. But none of them claimed to be prophets or apostles of God, nor did their followers offer them such status.

While we want to be careful not to revel in trivial speculation, we must remember that the above statements concerning Muhammad's condition did not originate from sources outside of Islam. These were statements by his friends and relatives, and those who most firmly believed in his claim to be the seal of the prophets. I am not an expert on these matters, so I leave it to you to decide whether the facts which we have learned concerning the condition of Muhammad at the time he received his revelations, can lead us to the conclusion that what he received were truly inspired.

E: The Qur'an's Supposed Distinctive Qualities

Moving on, we now tackle the book itself, and ask whether its supposed qualities give it the right to claim a unique position alongside those of the previous scriptures.

E1: Its Holiness

While Muslims hold a high view for all Scriptures, including the Old and New Testaments, they demand a unique and supreme position for the Qur'an, claiming its ascendancy over all other scriptures, because, according to them, "initially, it was never written down by men and so was never tainted with men's thoughts or styles." As we mentioned earlier, it is often referred to as the "Mother of Books" (taken from sura 43:3).

Since the Qur'an is such a highly honoured book, it therefore is treated as if it, in itself, is holy. To enquire into its source is considered blasphemy. In most mosques which I have attended, no one would be permitted to let their Qur'an touch the floor. Instead, every individual was urged to use ornately decorated book-stands to rest their Qur'an on while reading from its contents. My Muslim friends were horrified to learn that Christians not only stacked Bibles alongside other lesser books, but that they wrote notes in the margins as well.

The function of the Qur'an, then, seems to be in opposition to that of the Bible. This points out another clear distinction between the two faiths view on revelation.

Take the example of an old man I met in a Pennsylvania mosque, who was highly revered due to his ability to quote, by memory, any passage from the Qur'an (and thus had the title of Hafiz). Yet, I never saw him lead any discussions on the Qur'an. A young Saudi Arabian man was given that responsibility. When I asked, "Why?" I was told that the old gentleman didn't understand Arabic well (memorizing thus doesn't command understanding).

It shocked me to find a man who had spent years memorizing the Qur'an, yet had no yearning to understand the content of its message. Is it no wonder, then, that Muslims find little desire to translate their most holy book? Merit is found in the rote reading of the Qur'an in Arabic, and not in its message.

Another example is that of a friend of mine here in London who considered the Qur'an the epitome of beauty, and offered me certain suras as examples. Yet, when I asked him to translate the texts he could not.

Some of the Pakistani students at the university I attend who could quote certain passages, admired the beauty of the text, but had great difficulty in explaining the meaning. I found it disconcerting that the "beauty of the Qur'an" had such an influence, yet its "beauty" seemed, in fact, to discourage its understanding, which becomes an enemy to its mystique.

Here then is the key which points to the difference between the scriptures of the Christians and that of the Muslims. The fact that Muslims accord the Qur'an a place of reverence and worship, while memorizing its contents without necessarily understanding it, sparks of idolatry, the very sin ("Shirk") which the Qur'an itself warns against, as it elevates an object to the same level of reverence as Allah (suras 4:48; 5:75-76; 41:6).

In much of the Muslim world leather amulets worn on the body are sold outside the mosques (sometimes called Giri-giri). Within these amulets one can find folded pieces of paper with an aya, or verse from the Qur'an written on them. These verses supposedly have power to ward off evil spirits and diseases. For these Muslims the very letters of the Qur'an are imbued with supernatural power.

Christianity stands against this view of God's written word. We believe that the power and authority for the scriptures comes not from the paper it is written on, but from the words it expresses. We believe that the Bible is merely the testimony of God's revelation to humanity, and so is not holy in and of itself. It is a text which must be read and studied, much as a textbook is read and studied in school. Therefore, its importance lies in its content, rather than in its physical pages, just as a newspaper is read and thrown away, though the news it holds may remain imprinted on the readers mind for years to come.

Perhaps, the criticism by Muslims that Christians abuse the Bible is a result of this misunderstanding of its purpose. Once we understand the significance of the scriptures as nothing more than a repository of God's word, we can then understand why Christians feel no injunction against writing in its margins, or against laying it on the floor (though most of the Christians I know would not do so out of respect for its message).

The high regard for the Qur'an carries over into other areas as well, some of which need to be discussed at this time.

E2: Its Superior Style

Many Muslims claim that the superiority of the Qur'an over all other revelations is due to its sophisticated literary style. They quote suras 10:37-38, or 2:23, or 17:88, which say: "Will they say 'Muhammad hath forged it? Answer: "Bring therefore a chapter like unto it, and call whom ye may to your assistance, besides Allah, if ye speak truth."

This boast is echoed in the Hadith (Mishkat III, pg.664), which says:

"The Qur'an is the greatest wonder among the wonders of the world... This book is second to none in the world according to the unanimous decision of the learned men in points of diction, style, rhetoric, thoughts and soundness of laws and regulations to shape the destinies of mankind."

Muslims conclude that since there is no literary equivalent in existence, this proves that the Qur'an is a "miracle sent down from God, and not simply written by any one man."

Ironically, we now know that many stories and passages in the Qur'an were borrowed, sometimes word-for-word, and sometimes idea-for-idea, from Second century apocryphal documents of Jewish and Zoroastrian origin (to be discussed later in this paper).

To support this elevated belief in their scripture, many Muslim Qur'anic translators have an inclination to clothe their translations in a style that is rather archaic and 'wordy,' so that the average person must run to the dictionary to enquire their meanings. Yet, these translations were not conceived hundreds of years ago. This is merely a ploy by the translators to give the text an appearance of dignity and age which, they hope, will in turn inspire trustworthiness.

In response, we must begin by asking whether the Qur'an can be considered a miracle written by one man, when we know from Muslim Tradition that the Qur'an which we have today was not written by Muhammad but was collated and then copied by a group of men who, fourteen to twenty years after the fact, took what they found from the memory of others, as well as verses which had been written on bones, leaves and stones and then burned all evidence of any other copies. Where is the miracle in that?

More current research is now eradicating even this theory. According to the latest data, the Qur'an was not a document which was even given to Muhammad. Much of what is included in the Qur'an were additions which slowly evolved over a period of 150-200 years, until they were made a canon sometime in the eighth or ninth century. If this is true, and it looks to be the best theory which we have to date, then the authority for the Qur'an as a miracle sent down from heaven is indeed very slim.

But, for the sake of argument, let's ask whether the Qur'an can be considered unique in its style and makeup.

The logic of the claim to its uniqueness, according to Dr. Anis Shorrosh, is spurious as:

"... It no more proves its inspiration than a man's strength demonstrates his wisdom, or a woman's beauty, her virtue. Only by its teachings, its principles, and content can a book be judged rightly; not by its eloquence, elegance, or poetic strength" (Shorrosh 1988:192).

Furthermore, one must ask what criteria is used for measuring one literary piece against the other. In every written language there must be a "best piece" of literature. Take for example the: Rig-Veda of India (1,000- 1,500 B.C.), or the eloquent poems in Greek, the Odyssey and the Iliad by Homer, or the Gilgamesh Epic, the Code of Hammurabi, and the Book of the Dead from Egypt, all which are considered classic masterpieces, and all of which predate the Qur'an.

Closer to home: would we compare Shakespeare's works against that of the Qur'an? No! They are completely different genres. Yet, while few people today dispute the fact that Shakespeare's plays and sonnets are the best written in the English language, no-one would claim they were therefore divine.

To show the futility of such an argument, it would not take a very brilliant person to quote from classical pieces of literature in rebuttal. They could use such examples as the prayer written by Francis of Assisi (from the 12th century), or the prayer of Thomas Aquinas (in the 13th century), or portions of our own scripture, such as the 23rd Psalm and other Psalms, or even point to the imagery found in the gospel of John, or the sophistication evidenced in the letter to the Romans, or the chapter on Love in 1 Corinthians 13. These could all make the claim to be superior to the Qur'an and some of them definitely are, but that is not the point. We know the authors of each of these pieces of literature, humble men all; men who would shudder if we would consider their writings somehow elevated to that of the divine.

To make this distinction more clear, compare for example:

a. sura 76:29-30 (sura or 16:93) and I Timothy 2:4, Luke 15:3-4, John 10:14,18.

b. sura 111 and Francis of Assisi's prayer (see Nehls, Christians Ask Muslims, example no.11, pg.75).

c. suras 4:74, 84; 5:33; 48:16-17 and Matthew 5:3-12.

d. sura 109 and Psalm 23.

e. sura 24:2 and John 8:3-12.

f. suras 2:222-223; 4:11,24,34,176 and Ephesians 5:22-25.

g. sura 9:29 and I Corinthians 13:4-7.

h. sura 33:53, 56-57 and Matthew 20:25-28.

i. suras 55:46-60; 56:22-26,35-38 and Revelation 21:1-8, 22-27; 22:1-6.

You may feel that the selection of the suras has been unfavorable in contrast to the quotations from the Bible and the prayer, and you are correct. But you must remember that the claim of the Qur'an is to "produce a chapter like it." A chapter would mean any chapter, and certainly, as I have done here, those chapters which are similar in kind and content.

I am aware that the reverse could be done, that Biblical texts could be taken and opposed in similar fashion, but for what purpose? We make no claim, as has the Qur'an, that the Bible is superior to all pieces of literature.

In fact many statements and events described in the Bible are historical records, including quotations uttered by opponents of God, which do not necessarily reflect the consent, thought and will of God. Taken out of context such texts can and frequently are abused to support just about any view or opinion. Our intent here is to consider whether indeed the Qur'an has a superior style, such that it is unique among the scriptures of God. From what you now know, you, then, must decide.

E3: Its Literary Qualities

But what about the Qur'an's supposed literary qualities?

While Christian or secular Arabic speakers are likely to appreciate the Qur'an's poetic qualities, when anyone who is familiar with the Bible picks up a Qur'an and begins to read it through, there is the immediate recognition that he or she is dealing with an entirely different kind of literature than what is found in the Bible.

Whereas the Bible contains much historical narrative, the Qur'an contains very little. Whereas the Bible goes out of its way to explain unfamiliar terminology or territory, the Qur'an remains silent. In fact, the very structure of the Bible, consisting of a library of 66 books, written over a period of 1,500 years, reveals that it is ordered according to chronology, subject and theme.

The Qur'an, on the other hand, reads more like a jumbled and confused collection of statements and ideas, interposed many times with little relationship to the preceding chapters and verses. Many scholars admit that it is so haphazard in its make-up that it requires the utmost sense of duty for anyone to plow through it!

The German secular scholar Salomon Reinach in his harsh analysis, states that:

"From the literary point of view, the Koran has little merit. Declamation, repetition, puerility, a lack of logic and coherence strike the unprepared reader at every turn. It is humiliating to the human intellect to think that this mediocre literature has been the subject of innumerable commentaries, and that millions of men are still wasting time in absorbing it."(Reinach 1932:176)

McClintock and Strong's encyclopedia concludes that:

The matter of the [Koran] is exceedingly incoherent and sententious, the book evidently being without any logical order of thought either as a whole or in its parts. This agrees with the desultory and incidental manner in which it is said to have been delivered. (McClintock and Strong 1981:151)

Even the Muslim scholar Dashti laments the literary defects of the Qur'an, saying:

"Unfortunately the Qur'an was badly edited and its contents are very obtusely arranged."

He concludes that:

"All students of the Qur'an wonder why the editors did not use the natural and logical method of ordering by date of revelation, as in 'Ali ibn Taleb's lost copy of the text" [Dashti 1985:28].

When reading a Qur'an, you will discover that the 114 suras not only have odd names for titles (such as the Cow, the Spoils, the Bee, or the Cave), but their layout is not at all in a chronological order. Size or length had more to do with the sequence of the suras than any other factor, starting with the longer suras and ending with the shortest. Even within the suras we find a mixed chronology. At times there is a mixture of Meccan and Medinan revelations within the same sura, so that even size is not an infallible guide in dating them.

Another problem is that of repetition. The Qur'an was intended to be memorized by those who were illiterate and uneducated since they could not read it. It therefore engages in the principal of endless repetition of the same material over and over again [Morey 1991:110]. This all leads to a good bit of confusion for the novice reader, and gives rise to much suspicion concerning its vaunted literary qualities.

In contrast to the Bible, which was written over several hundred years by a variety of authors, and flows easily from the creation of the world right through to the prophecies concerning the end of the universe; the Qur'an, supposedly written by just one man, Muhammad, during a span of a mere 20 years, seems to go nowhere and say little outside of the personal and political affairs of himself and his companions at one particular time in history.

With no logical connection from one sura to the next, one is left with a feeling of incompleteness, waiting for the story to give some meaning. Is it no wonder that many find it difficult to take seriously the claim by the Hadith that the Qur'an is "a book second to none in the world," worthy of divine inspiration?

E4: Its Pure Arabic

Muslims believe that the Arabic language is the language of Allah. They also believe that the Qur'an, because it is perfect, is the exact representation of Allah's words. For that reason only the Arabic Qur'an can be considered as authoritative. It, therefore, follows that those who do not know Arabic are still required to read and memorize the Qur'an in the Arabic language, as translations can never replace the language of Allah. Yet, is the Qur'an the Arabic document which Muslims claim it to be?

The answer is unequivocally "NO!" There are many foreign words or phrases which are employed in the Qur'an, some of which have no Arabic equivalent, and others which do.

Arthur Jeffrey, in his book Foreign Vocabulary of the [Koran], has gathered some 300 pages dealing with foreign words in the Qur'an, many of which must have been used in pre-Qur'anic Arabic, but quite a number also which must have been used little or not at all before they were included in the Qur'an. One must wonder why these words were borrowed, as it puts doubt on whether "Allah's language" is sufficient enough to explain and reveal all that Allah had intended. Some of the foreign words include:

a. Pharaoh: an Egyptian word which means king or potentate, which is repeated in the Qur'an 84 times.

b. Adam and Eden: Accadian words which are repeated 24 times. A more correct term for "Adam" in Arabic would be basharan or insan, meaning "mankind." "Eden" would be the word janna in Arabic, which means "garden."

c. Abraham (sometimes recorded as Ibrahim): comes from the Assyrian language. The correct Arabic equivalent would be Abu Raheem.

d. Persian words

i. Haroot and Maroot are Persian names for angels.

ii. Sirat meaning "the path" has the Arabic equivalent, Altareeq.

iii. Hoor meaning "disciple" has the Arabic equivalent, Tilmeeth.

iv. Jinn meaning "good or evil demons" has the Arabic equivalent, Ruh. v.Firdaus meaning "the highest or seventh heaven" has the Arabic equivalent, Jannah.

e. Syriac words: Taboot, Taghouth, Zakat, Malakout are all Syriac words which have been borrowed and included in the 'Arabic' Qur'an.

f. Hebrew words: Heber, Sakinah, Maoon, Taurat, Jehannim, Tufan (deluge) are all Hebrew words which have been borrowed and included in the 'Arabic' Qur'an.

g. Greek words: Injil, which means "gospel" was borrowed, yet it has the Arabic equivalent, Bisharah. Iblis is not Arabic, but a corruption of the Greek word Diabolos.

h. Christian Aramaic: Qiyama is the Aramaic word for resurrection.

i. Christian Ethiopic: Malak (2:33) is the Ethiopic word for angel.


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Postby webmaster » Wed Apr 07, 2004 12:34 am

The earliest complete Koran manuscript in existence in museums today are hundreds of years after Muhammad died:

The Muslim false claim:

"In other words: two of the copies of the Qur’an which were originally prepared in the time of Caliph `Uthman, are still available to us today and their texts and arrangement can be compared, by anyone who cares to, with any other copy of the Qur’an, be it in print or handwriting, from any place or period of time. They will be found to be identical." (Von Denffer, Ulum al-Qur’an, p 64)

The truth:

Although Muslims proclaim they have a Koran that dates to the time of Muhammad, the Reality is different.

Two ancient copies of Koran that are in existence are the Samarqand MSS is in Tashkent, and the MSS housed in the Topkapi Museum in Istanbul. What many Muslim's do not know, is that because these two manuscripts were written in a script style called "Kufic", practicing Muslim scholars generally date these manuscripts no earlier than 200 years after Muhammad died. Had these two manuscripts been compiled any earlier, they would have been written in either the Ma'il or Mashq script style. John Gilchrist, in his book, "Jam' Al-Qur'an" came to this same conclusion. (John Gilchrist, Jam' Al-Qur'an, Jesus to the Muslims, 1989)

Now we do have one ancient copy of the Koran written in the Ma'il style of script, that is housed in the British Museum in London (Lings & Safadi 1976:17,20; Gilchrist 1989:16,144). But scholar Martin Lings, who was not only a practicing Muslim, but also a former curator for the manuscripts of the British Museum, dates this manuscript at 790 AD, making it the earliest. On the other hand Yasir Qadhi notes one Islamic Masters/PhD scholar who believes the Samarqand MSS is the ‘most likely candidate for the original’.

It is unknown, even by Muslims that authorities will not release photographs of the ancient Topkapi manuscript in Istanbul and so there are no known studies on it. This is why the Muslim apologist, M. Saifullah had to state "Concerning the Topkapi manuscript we are not aware of studies done it." (Who's Afraid Of Textual Criticism?, M. S. M. Saifullah, 'Abd ar-Rahman Squires & Muhammad Ghoniem) What is in this manuscript that Muslims are afraid to let the world see? After all in Qur'an 2:111 it says "Produce your proof if you are truthful."

Even the earliest fragmentary manuscripts of the Koran are all dated no earlier than 100 years after Muhammad died.

Add to this the fact that there is no archeological evidence dated at the time when Muhammad was alive, by way of artifact, manuscript or inscription has ever been found were Muhammad is actually referred to as "a prophet".

If you don’t believe me, listen to faithful Muslim, Ahmad Von Denffer, in his book, Ulum al Quran, in a chapter called, Old Manuscripts Of The Qur'an, "Most of the early original Qur'an manuscripts, complete or in sizeable fragments, that are still available to us now, are not earlier than the second century after the Hijra. [or 800 AD] The earliest copy, which was exhibited in the British Museum during the 1976 World of Islam Festival, dated from the late second century.' However, there are also a number of odd fragments of Qur'anic papyri available, which date from the first century." (Grohmann, A.: Die Entstehung des Koran und die altesten Koran- Handschriften', in: Bustan, 1961, pp. 33-8)

There are no ancient copies of the Koran dating before 750 AD in museums. We challenge you to prove us wrong!
http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-myths-k ... cripts.htm


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