I need help!

[LindaBee2]

I decided to post this message here, seeing as it fits in with the subject of MP3s.

For a while now, my sister and I have been enjoying downloading MP3s from the Internet. (Actually, she downloads them, and I just transfer the songs that I like to my computer.) However, I was watching Kirk Cameron's show on TBN, and something he said struck me: This is a form of stealing. Now, I'm panicking. Not because I'm afraid that people may take legal action against us, but because of Biblical reasons.

HELP!!

[LindaBee2]

Umm...Hello? Need some help, here. Kind of important!

[Aineo]

Ethically, downloading copywrited material without paying for it is stealing. It is really very simple if you did not create it, own it, and you take it, you stole it. Sharing mp3's that have been downloaded without payment from any site that does not have a disclaimer that allows the free distribution of the matierial is also a form of theft. Even though you are not paying for the mp3 you are taking something an individual or group expended time, talent, and resources to compose and record. Look at it this way, you work for a paycheck and if your employer does not pay you his action deprives you on your income. Downloading pirated mp3's deprives the companies, artists, etc. of the income from their investments and talents.

[StreetDeacon]

Yeah I feel your pain LOL. When I got saved, I did away with a lot of things. Among them, were all my file sharing programs. Sometimes I think of a song I haven't heard in a while, and think about trying to download it. Then I think to myself, "You can live without that song ya know". So I just talk my way out of it.

One could argue that it's no different than borrowing and burning a friends CD, but deep down, we all know it's not exactly the same thing.

Some of my friends think it's ok if the song you want to download isn't sold anywhere and there's no other way of getting it. I guess this makes sense, but as for myself I still don't do it. I know I would be too tempted to just download whatever song I wanted.

Well I hope I was at least some help.

[LindaBee2]

I mainly just ask my sister to download things from albums that I know cannot be found, as well as songs that I've heard on the radio. I don't have her download the entire CD. Or maybe I'm not interested in buying the CD, but I just like one of an artist's songs. (Take, for instance, Babyface. I really enjoyed "Nobody Knows it But Me," but I wasn't interested in buying his album.)

Right now, I'm thinking of asking her to download Pachabel Canon in D, which is one of my favorite classical music pieces.

[LindaBee2]

What is the difference between recording a song off of the radio and downloading that same song from the Internet? I mean, either way, you get that song for free.

Also, I sometimes borrow my sister's albums and make copies of my favorite songs. What's the difference between doing that and downloading from the Internet?

And my sister and I used to visit this awesome store that sold used music tapes and CDs, as well as used video games, game consoles, and videos. The money doesn't go to the artists, but to the people who run the store.

At least I know that shoplifting is obviously stealing. But I'm not so sure about this area.

[newseed]

I guess you need to ask yourself:

"Are you trying to justify something that is wrong or do you really know for sure that what you are doing is right by God's standard?"

It's between you, God and the Holy Spirit. You already know the answer. It's just possible that you don't like the answer.

From my personal experience, there have been too many times that I have tried to justify something that I thought was ok but ended up only hurting my relationship with God.

[StreetDeacon]

What is the difference between recording a song off of the radio and downloading that same song from the Internet? I mean, either way, you get that song for free.

Also, I sometimes borrow my sister's albums and make copies of my favorite songs. What's the difference between doing that and downloading from the Internet?

See. That's exactly the argument my friends make.

You know it's illegal, right? Record companies are actually suing people who download music. Last I read, the average out of court settlements were $3000 each. I read this in my local newspaper.

And my sister and I used to visit this awesome store that sold used music tapes and CDs, as well as used video games, game consoles, and videos. The money doesn't go to the artists, but to the people who run the store.

I think that's different, because what they are selling are used, but they are still the original copies that the artist, and record label already made money off of. Now if they burned a buncha copies and sold them (bootleg), that would be illegal.

What type of stuff are you wanting to download? The only way I would think it would be OK, is if there is no other way of obtaining the song you want.

By the way, what downloading program are you using? I hope it's not Kazaa. Kazaa is packed full of vicious spyware. It's so bad now, it's not even worth it.

[LindaBee2]

What type of stuff are you wanting to download? The only way I would think it would be OK, is if there is no other way of obtaining the song you want.

That's basically what I have my sister download for me. I like some songs that are from the 80's, or are performed by groups that have been broken up for quite some time. Also, I'm thinking of asking my sister to download "Canon in D" for me. My father, who was a classical music buff, tried to locate the song for me, but he never could.

By the way, what downloading program are you using? I hope it's not Kazaa. Kazaa is packed full of vicious spyware. It's so bad now, it's not even worth it.

I have no idea what program my sister uses. She used to use Kazaa, but I think she gave up on it.

[wigginsmum]

I used to download stuff, until God told me it was stealing, and I got rid of it all. Now I buy the stuff I want to listen to. It's the thin end of the wedge, like taking an extra pen from the office to use at home, or using one of their envelopes to send a letter. It doesn't belong to us, and we have no right to take it.

Jules

[Alpha]

What about if you listen to an album online and then decide to buy it because you liked it? It works both ways really. It's better than buying an album and being dissappointed. Plus, with the prices of albums these days, you can consider us being the ones getting robbed.

[LindaBee2]

I know what you mean, Alpha. A majority of the albums I own are ones that I enjoy very much. (Although, one of my Leann Rimes cassettes apparently bit the dust. And it just HAD to be my favorite, too. Grumble) But I have some albums that are just plain stinky, like Justin Timberlake's first solo album. I like a few of the songs, but the rest are just plain horrible!

Nowadays, you can't just depend upon a hit single to tell you what the rest of the album's going to be like. Because there is a good chance that the rest of the album will be horrible.

[StreetDeacon]

LOL, Leann Rimes and Justin Timberlake (**belch**) , should still be easy to find.

We have a few stores that will have an open copy of everything, and they will let you sample it in a listening booth before you buy it. I've saved lotta money that way.

Don't they have site now where you can download music for a few dollars a song? If so, you could do that and get exactly what you are paying for.

[RomeSweetHome]

I am listening to a song on the radio or on TV, I record it. Is that stealing?

I watch a film on TV, instead of going out to buy the film I tape it. Is that stealing?

Alot of things are illegal when they shouldn't be, and a lot of things are legal when they should be illegal.

Its man made laws.


Peace

[StreetDeacon]

LOL, I forgot about this thread.

Well, radio stations get permission to play certain songs, and TV stations get permission to play certain movies, so that's sorta expected. As far as the radio, that's how bands get their exposure. You hear a few songs from an artist, and if you like it, you may want to go out and "BUY" the CD.

Let's say you get some CDs for Christmas. Is it right to copy them all, then return them to the store for a refund.

Let's say you was in a band and had your own CD. Or maybe you own a record label. If people are downloading your songs right and left, then they aren't buying them. If they are buying them, then you aren't making any (or as much) money. I think some people don't view it as stealing, because the industry is already rich, and is full of evil and corrupt people, for the most part, but that doesn't make it right to take what's theirs without paying.

I use to buy a few CDs a month, before I got a computer. After I got a computer with cable modem, I never bought another CD for years. Also, I have friends who use to buy TONS of CDs, but now they're downloading TONS of songs instead of buying them.

If it's OK to download songs, then why stop there. Is it OK to download video games, and software? Here are a few of the things I've downloaded in the past, and the prices of the programs at the time I downloaded them. Adobe Photoshop 6.0 ($500 - $700), Adobe Photoshop 7.0 ($500 - $700), FrontPage 2000 ($100 - $200), Dreamweaver 4 (around $400), Poser 4 (around $200), Macromedia Flash 5 (around $500), and many video games that go for $50 a piece. Now that's a lot of money I saved with my dishonesty. I wasn't a Christian at the time, but I still knew it was wrong. I just didn't care at the time.

Alot of things are illegal when they shouldn't be, and a lot of things are legal when they should be illegal.

Its man made laws.


Peace

You're from the UK, and I'm from the US, but for the most part, our laws are similar. I understand that a lot of things are legal when they should be illegal. Just out of curiosity, which illegal things should be legal? I sorta thought as Christians, we're suppose to obey the laws of the government, unless by doing so you're going against the Bible. Then it's void (just my thought). Here's a verse that may have something to do with it....

Romans 13:7 (NIV)

7Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.



If we like someone's music enough to own it, then I think the least we could do is pay them for it.

[RomeSweetHome]

StreetDeacon wrote

You're from the UK, and I'm from the US, but for the most part, our laws are similar. I understand that a lot of things are legal when they should be illegal. Just out of curiosity, which illegal things should be legal? I sorta thought as Christians, we're suppose to obey the laws of the government, unless by doing so you're going against the Bible. Then it's void (just my thought). Here's a verse that may have something to do with it....

In England it is legal to drink alcohol at 18, to buy ciggs at 16 and to gamble at 18. In America its 21 in most states to gamble, drink and 18 to buy ciggs. Amongst other things.

StreetDeacon Wrote

If we like someone's music enough to own it, then I think the least we could do is pay them for it.

They are not loosing out on anything, if anybodys getting robbed its us.

I for one will not pay £17 for a album, especailly if I dont like it, and cant return it.

Yes we are to obey the laws of the goverment, but would you obey a law that goes against your faith? theoretically speaking.

I dont believe in the death penalty, is that a good "law"? or form of Justice?


The "Record" button is on your VCR for a reason my friend

Peace

[StreetDeacon]

In England it is legal to drink alcohol at 18, to buy ciggs at 16 and to gamble at 18. In America its 21 in most states to gamble, drink and 18 to buy ciggs. Amongst other things.

I don't smoke, gamble, or drink. LOL , I didn't mean for you to get all nit picky on me . I was thinking more along the lines of same freedoms. And before you say it, I realize you guys aren't aloud to carry firearms, but we both have freedom of religion, and little things that we take for granted. We're not like Afghanistan and Iraq.

Anyway, I said that because I was trying to find out which illegal things should be made legal.

They are not loosing out on anything, if anybodys getting robbed its us.

Let's say there are 10 people who each normally buy $300(or £300) worth of CDs a year. The same 10 people started downloading songs instead of buying them. That's $3000(or £3000) a year that somebody's not getting. So yeah, someone is loosing out.

I for one will not pay £17 for a album, especailly if I dont like it, and cant return it.

So let's just stick it to the man then. By not liking it, I'm assuming that you mean not liking the whole CD. You could download it to sample it, then if you like it, go out and PAY for it. I still say, if you want something enough to own it, the least you could do is pay for it. If you don't want to part with money, then don't. It's not like you're gonna die without it. Should I sneak into a movie, if I don't want to pay the ticket price?

I guess that's where I'm lucky that there are places where I live that will let you swap the CD if you don't like it. They also have listening bars so you can sample the whole CD, before you buy it.

Yes we are to obey the laws of the goverment, but would you obey a law that goes against your faith? theoretically speaking.

I agree. Like I said above, I believe you should obey the laws of the government unless by doing so you're going against the Bible.

I dont believe in the death penalty, is that a good "law"? or form of Justice?

I don't believe in the death penalty either. That's why I've never personally put anyone to death.

The "Record" button is on your VCR for a reason my friend

Yes. It's to record things off TV. Now if you're talking about a feature length movie off HBO, then technically, it's not free, assuming that you pay a monthly cable bill.

Maybe you should ask your Priest. Post his opinion. Heck, if he convinces me enough, I may go out and buy another hard drive just for mp3s.

[newseed]

I have viewed this post many times and I am seeing that some of you are trying to find justification in getting something for free even though it may not be legal. God has put it in your heart to know. Are you ignoring the Holy Spirit?

It's man's nature to justify sin. The Lord knows I have been guilty of that.

In His Name,
Eddie

[RomeSweetHome]

I don't smoke, gamble, or drink. LOL , I didn't mean for you to get all nit picky on me . I was thinking more along the lines of same freedoms. And before you say it, I realize you guys aren't aloud to carry firearms, but we both have freedom of religion, and little things that we take for granted. We're not like Afghanistan and Iraq.

Anyway, I said that because I was trying to find out which illegal things should be made legal.

Its good that you dont gamble,drink or smoke.

Yes we are lucky to have freedom of speech etc..

I personally thgink Weed should be legal, why? well you either make ciggs illegal as well as weed or make them both legal, not one or the other. I also think in america there exsist stupid laws you cant drink in NY i think it is until your 21 but you can get a gun at 16?

I will reply to the rest later, I got virus

Peace

[LindaBee2]

What if it's just one song from an album?

[LindaBee2]

I've decided that I am no longer going to commit this sin. However, I'm still concerned about my sister. She is a believer, but I'm still worried about her. So please, pray for her? Her name's Lisa.

[newseed]

LindaBee,

AMEN! As for your sister, all you have to do is not sin along with her and pray that the Lord will put it in her heart to know the truth. If she ask why you don't want her songs that she downloaded, she tell her the truth.

Blessings will be upon you!!!

For His Harvest,
Eddie

[StreetDeacon]

I don't smoke, gamble, or drink. LOL , I didn't mean for you to get all nit picky on me . I was thinking more along the lines of same freedoms. And before you say it, I realize you guys aren't aloud to carry firearms, but we both have freedom of religion, and little things that we take for granted. We're not like Afghanistan and Iraq.

Anyway, I said that because I was trying to find out which illegal things should be made legal.

Its good that you dont gamble,drink or smoke.

Yes we are lucky to have freedom of speech etc..

I personally thgink Weed should be legal, why? well you either make ciggs illegal as well as weed or make them both legal, not one or the other. I also think in america there exsist stupid laws you cant drink in NY i think it is until your 21 but you can get a gun at 16?

I will reply to the rest later, I got virus

Peace

Legalize pot?? No way!!!

I don't think cigarettes and pot are a good comparison. I mean cigarettes don't alter your perception, or slow your reaction time. Comparing pot and alcohol makes more sense. They both alter your mind, yet ones legal and the other is illegal. If it was up to me, they both would be illegal. In fact, it wouldn't hurt my feelings if all of it was illegal, including cigarettes. I mean none of it is healthy, and cigarettes cause second-hand smoke.

By the way, it's 18 to buy a rifle, and 21 to buy a handgun. And I'm not sure, but I think guns are illegal in NY. I know you can't own a handgun in NY. Also, you have to get a permit if you want to carry concealed.

Oh yeah. The drinking age is 21 for all of the U.S. I'm not sure, but I think if you're 18, and in the military, you can drink. Guess they figure if you're old enough to die for your country, your old enough to drink.

[LindaBee2]

Well, I took the plunge and deleted the music software and MP3 files from my computer. Very hard thing to do, as I enjoyed listening to all of those songs. But hey! At least there's more space on my computer for all of my story files. LOL Goodness knows there's a ton of those.

[Omega]

WHY?

I think Satan is trying to lower your spirit, and i don't like what he's doing.

At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn and to eat. But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day. But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him; How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests?
Matthew 12:1-4

If the music website says that you can download music, then how is it stealing? It would be stealing if there was a fee for downloading music.

Would Jesus be angry if you told him that you downloaded Christian music or any music that uplifts your spirit from a website that does not charge a fee for doing so?

If the Lord asks anyone,"I have something for you Without a fee", is that stealing? No

God Bless!

[LindaBee2]

The truth is, I'm still greatly confused about this subject. I mean, I'd be 100% certain that it was stealing if I downloaded the entire album.

Oh, well. Truth is, it looks like I'll be inheriting my sister's computer, and the MP3 player is installed on it.

You know, sometimes, I wish God would hold up a great, big neon sign that would tell me when something that's in the gray area is, in fact, sinful. LOL

[StreetDeacon]

If the music website says that you can download music, then how is it stealing? It would be stealing if there was a fee for downloading music.

If the music website is giving away music without permission, or against the will of the artist, then it's wrong, period. I'm having a hard time believing that you're actually condoning this.

Would Jesus be angry if you told him that you downloaded Christian music or any music that uplifts your spirit from a website that does not charge a fee for doing so?

If anyone told me that they downloaded and burned a CD full of Christian music, I would probably laugh at the irony of it. Would Jesus be angry if I stole the same songs from a music store? Would he be angry if I snuck into the movies to see "Passion of the Christ"? So my answer to this question is yes, I think Jesus would disapprove.

If the Lord asks anyone,"I have something for you Without a fee", is that stealing? No

You're right on that one, but I don't think the Lord would give something away that he stolen, seeing how he doesn't steal and all. And I don't think it's good to compare the Lord to a music pirating website/program.

Again, I can't believe you're condoning this. You do know we are talking about the same sites that are considered illegal, right?. The same sites that can get you sued. Many artists and record companies that own the songs that are being downloaded, don't want them to be downloaded.

[webmaster]

Christian MP3 Music
http://www.breadsite.org/music.htm

All music is COPYRIGHTED and is used by permission from the copyright holders. Feel free to download for your own personal enjoyment.

[newseed]

Christian MP3 Music
http://www.breadsite.org/music.htm

All music is COPYRIGHTED and is used by permission from the copyright holders. Feel free to download for your own personal enjoyment.

There you go Lindabee! Since you erased the illegal mp3's files, you have been blessed with copyrighted, permissioned to download freely for your own personal use! I am certain their are other folks on this board that may have links to TRULY free mp3 music!!

Thanks webmaster! I will certainly take this blessing too!

In His Name,
Eddie

[LindaBee2]

Hmm. I'll have to check this website out and see if I can spot some songs that I'll recognize.

[LindaBee2]

I am currently searching for websites that offer free and legal MP3s. I enjoyed listening to the songs that my sister downloaded for me before, but in the end, I realized it just wasn't worth it. Who knows? Perhaps I'll download those songs legally and at no cost.

[Omega]

Omega, one thing you're forgetting is that what Jesus and His disciples did was legal, according to Deuteronomy 23:25.

If you enter your neighbor's grainfield, you may pick kernels with your hands, but you must not put a sickle to his standing grain.

I am currently searching for websites that offer free and legal MP3s. I enjoyed listening to the songs that my sister downloaded for me before, but in the end, I realized it just wasn't worth it. Who knows? Perhaps I'll download those songs legally and at no cost.

I knew that LindaBee!

Who is your neighbour?
What i should have said, was what webmaster has posted, they are your neighbours, do you agree!

What is was attempting to get across is what webmaster had posted,

All music is COPYRIGHTED and is used by permission from the copyright holders. Feel free to download for your own personal enjoyment.

These are your neighbours, go freely and choose for your liking and enjoyment.

God Bless!

[LindaBee2]

Can someone please recommend some songs that come from that website? I'm new to the Christian music scene.

[webmaster]

Anything by
SPLENDOR DISPLAYED - SENT MINISTRIES VOL 2
Is GREAT!!!

Enter the Holy of Holies
http://www.breadsite.org/music/Enter%20 ... Holies.mp3