The Quran contains stories from the Arabic Infancy Gospels

[Believer]

Peace all,

The Gospels of the Infancy were two books that were written about 150+ AD--140+ years after Jesus Christ's childhood!! These were just fabricated books written to appease a curious ancient Christian community. Notice the Gospels are silent on Christ's early life, people were just aching to know what the Lord Jesus was doing as a child. Certainly this attracted alot of story tellers! The books were to heretical to be included into the official Christian cannon. Nonetheless, they were popular books in places like Arabia. I bet Waraqa was familiar with these stories, and he told them to Muhammed.

What's ironic is the existence of an Arabic Infancy Gospel.

http://wesley.nnu.edu/noncanon/gospels/infarab.htm


[5.110] When Allah will say: O Isa son of Marium! Remember My favor on you and on your mother, when I strengthened you I with the holy Spirit, you spoke to the people in the cradle and I when of old age, and when I taught you the Book and the wisdom and the Taurat and the Injeel; and when you determined out of clay a thing like the form of a bird by My permission, then you breathed into it and it became a bird by My permission, and you healed the blind and the leprous by My permission; and when you brought forth the dead by My permission; and when I withheld the children of Israel from you when you came to them with clear arguments, but those who disbelieved among them said: This is nothing but clear enchantment"

And the Arabic Infancy Gospel says:

1. We find (1) what follows in the book of Joseph the high priest, who lived in the time of Christ. Some say that he is Caiaphas. (2) He has said that Jesus spoke, and, indeed, when he was lying in His cradle said to Mary His mother: I am Jesus, the Son of God, the Logos, whom thou hast brought forth, as the Angel Gabriel announced to thee; and my Father has sent me for the salvation of the world.

46. Again, on another day, the Lord Jesus was with the boys at a stream of water, and they had again made little fish-ponds. And the Lord Jesus had made twelve sparrows, and had arranged them round His fish-pond, three on each side. And it was the Sabbath-day. Wherefore a Jew, the son of Hanan, coming up, and seeing them thus engaged, said in anger and great indignation: Do you make figures of clay on the Sabbath-day? And he ran quickly, and destroyed their fish-ponds. But when the Lord Jesus clapped His hands over the sparrows which He had made, they flew away chirping. Then the son of Hanan came up to the fish-pond of Jesus also, and kicked it with his shoes, and the water of it vanished away. And the Lord Jesus said to him: As that water has vanished away, so thy life shall likewise vanish away. And immediately that boy dried up.

Did Allah really give permission for little Isa to make birds from clay and speak from a cradle--when such things never happened? How can the Quran be the absolute word of Allah with these borrowed myths?

We can clearly see that Muhammed took well known Arabian stories from the Arabic Infancy Gospel when he composed the Quran.

2 Peter 1:16
We did not follow cleverly invented stories when we told you about the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

[Scorpion]

Fantastic information. Thanks once again for a lovely thread. God Bless!

I've found a book that discusses the sources and origins of the Koran and how it talks about the Koran being borrowed from the talmud and other religios scriptures. Very interesting indeed.

[littleshepard]

Yes, this is valuable informations. I'm glad you provided that! Thanks alot!!

[Kaiser]

Assalamualaikum!

The Quran hasn't been borrowed from any source. It is the Word of Allah. Firstly, we believe that the Injil was revealed to Prophet Jesus(pbuh) but that with time, it got corrupted as the Bible itself confesses:

GOD Almighty Said: "`How can you say, "We [the Jews] are wise, for we have the law of the LORD," when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?' (From the NIV Bible, Jeremiah 8:8)"

And

"How can you say, 'We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us'? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie. (From the RSV Bible, Jeremiah 8:8)"


I don't have to prove anything, the Bible says it all.


But then, not everything can be corrupted in the Bible. We believe that some teachings of the Bible may be the Word of God since the original Bible was a Word of God. So it naturally follows that in some parts, the Bible and the Quran are going to speak the same thing: the Quran as it is, as it has always been and as it will always be, and the uncorrupted part of the Bible.

I've posted 15 errors in the Bible in the "Quran and Bible" section which I would like you to take a look at.

The Quran says:

"Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands and then say: "This is from Allah" to traffic with it for a miserable price! Woe to them for what their hands do write and for the gain they make thereby."
(2:79)

Take care

[webmaster]

Jeremiah 8

1. At that time, saith the Lord, they shall bring out the bones of the kings of Judah, and the bones of his princes, and the bones of the priests, and the bones of the prophets, and the bones of the inhabitants of Jerusalem, out of their graves:
2. And they shall spread them before the sun, and the moon, and all the host of heaven, whom they have loved, and whom they have served, and after whom they have walked, and whom they have sought, and whom they have worshipped: they shall not be gathered, nor be buried; they shall be for dung upon the face of the earth.
3. And death shall be chosen rather than life by all the residue of them that remain of this evil family, which remain in all the places whither I have driven them, saith the Lord of hosts.
4. Moreover thou shalt say unto them, Thus saith the Lord; Shall they fall, and not arise? shall he turn away, and not return?
5. Why then is this people of Jerusalem slidden back by a perpetual backsliding? they hold fast deceit, they refuse to return.
6. I hearkened and heard, but they spake not aright: no man repented him of his wickedness, saying, What have I done? every one turned to his course, as the horse rusheth into the battle.
7. Yea, the stork in the heaven knoweth her appointed times; and the turtle and the crane and the swallow observe the time of their coming; but my people know not the judgment of the Lord.
8. How do ye say, We are wise, and the law of the Lord is with us? Lo, certainly in vain made he it; the pen of the scribes is in vain.

What did Jesus say about this?
Matthew 23
1. Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,
2. Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
3. All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
4. For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

The Mishnah is basic compilation of the Oral law of Judaism; it was written down around 200 CE. However there is another compilation of oral law from that time period which is nearly as authoritative; this is the Tosefta. Rashi (in his commentary on Talmud Sanhedrin 33a) writes that the Mishnah was redacted by Judah haNasi in consultation with members of the Academy, while the Tosefta was edited by Rabbis Hiyya and Oshaiah on their own, thus the Tosefta is less authoritative. In many ways the Tosefta acts as a supplement to the Mishna.

The Oral Law
The Written Law is another name for the Torah. The Oral Law is a legal commentary on the Torah, explaining how its commandments are to be carried out. The Oral Law today is a written law, codified in the Mishna and Talmud. Orthodox Judaism believes that most of the oral traditions recorded in these books dates back to God's revelation to Moses on Mount Sinai. When God gave Moses the Torah, Orthodoxy teaches, He simultaneously provided him all the details found in the Oral Law. It is believed that Moses subsequently transmitted that Oral Law to his successor, Joshua, who transmitted it to his successor, in a chain that is still being carried on (Ethics of the Fathers 1:1).

The Babylonian Talmud is much more complete than the Jerusalem Talmud, and the redaction is much more careful and precise. Still, it is by no means complete. The gemara only exists for 37 out of the 63 tractates of the Mishna. Why did these tractates remain without gemara in Babylonian Talmud? The traditional answer is that the laws of Zeraim and Toharot (except Niddah) had no practical relevance; The agricultural laws were tied only to the land of Israel. In the diaspora these laws simply were of no use. The purity laws (except for family purity) were no longer applicable, because there was no longer a Temple and sacrificial system. One might think then that there would be no Babylonian Talmud gemara on Qodashim - but there is.

During the 9th century C.E., a number of sects arose that denied the existence of oral Torah. These sects came to be known as Karaites (literally, People of the Scripture), and they were distinguished from the Rabbanites or Rabbinical Judaism. The Karaites believed in strict interpretation of the literal text of the scripture, without rabbinical interpretation.They believed that rabbinical law was not part of an oral tradition that had been handed down from G-d, nor was it inspired by G-d, but was an original work of the sages. As such, rabbinical teachings are subject to the flaws of any document written by mere mortals.

[webmaster]

When God said, ‘O Jesus, Son of Mary, remember My favour towards Thee and towards Thy mother, when I strengthened Thee with the Holy Spirit; Thou dost speak unto men in the cradle and as an adult: and when I taught Thee the Book and wisdom and the law and the Gospel; and when Thou dost create from clay as it were the figure of a bird by My permission, then Thou dost breathe into it, thereupon it becometh a bird by My permission; and Thou dost cleanse the blind and the leper by My permission; and when Thou dost bring forth the dead by My permission; and when I restrained the Children of Israel from Thee, when Thou didst come to them with the evident signs: therefore those of them who disbelieved said, This is nothing except evident magic.’"

What is here related of our Lord's miracles of healing the blind, cleansing the leper and raising the dead, may be derived indirectly from the four canonical Gospels, though similar events are not excluded — as they could not well be — from the apocryphal Gospels. But the point of importance for our present purpose is what is said about His creating a bird out of clay and giving it life. This incident is derived from the apocryphal "Gospel of Thomas the Israelite," in the second chapter of which we read:—

"This child, Jesus, having become five years old, was playing at the crossing of a brook, and He had collected together into pools the running waters and was making them clean forthwith, and with a single word did He command them. And having made some clay fine, He formed out of it twelve sparrows. And it was the Sabbath when He did these things. There were, however, many other children also playing with Him. But a certain Jew, having seen what Jesus was doing, that He was playing on the Sabbath day, went away immediately and told His father Joseph, ‘Lo! thy child is at the brook, and having taken clay He hath formed twelve little birds out of it, and He hath profaned the Sabbath.’ And Joseph, having come to the spot and having seen, cried out to Him, saying, ‘Why dost Thou on the Sabbath do these things which it is not lawful to do?’ But Jesus, having clapped His hands together, cried out to the sparrows and said to them, ‘Go!’ And the sparrows, having taken flight, departed twittering. But the Jews, having seen this, were astounded; and having gone away they related to their chief men what they saw that Jesus did."

It is worthy of note that the whole of this fable occurs twice over in the Arabic "Gospel of the Infancy," in chapter xxxvi, and again in another
form in chapter xlvi. The reason of this is that the latter part of the book is taken from the "Gospel of Thomas the Israelite."

We notice here again that, while the legend is evidently the same as that briefly referred to in the Qur'an, yet the difference is sufficient to prove that Muhammad was reproducing a shortened form of it from memory, and was not consulting any written document. Hence he mentions only one bird instead of twelve, and speaks of life being given to it by the breath of Jesus and not by a command of His. The brief reference made to the tale in the Qur'an shows that the story had obtained wide currency and was generally believed at the time. This again proves how little knowledge of the New Testament there then was in Medina; for not only are no such accounts of miracles performed by our Saviour in His childhood recorded in the canonical Gospels, but John ii. 11 shows that none were wrought until after His Baptism at the age of about thirty.





The Sources of the Qur'an
http://www.muhammadanism.org/Tisdall/so ... n/p174.htm

[Berlin Bear]

I am a strong believer in the Bible being God's word. And I want to share these words of wisdom and love with the world. I know that in order to share my understanding with another I must be ready to at least to hear their understanding about scripture. Alternatively, if it is another book they believe to be the Word of God, I must be able to listen to their understanding. However when a person who seems to be more of a special club member, which could be Christians as well as any other religion. By special club I mean they are always ready to tell someone what is written in their book or even the book of someone else, without ever have read either one. Then they are "special club members" (having a form of Godliness but denying the power there of). I have many different translations of the Bible for the sole purpose of understanding, (with the guidance of the Holy Spirit of course.)
I tried reading the Qu-ran in English, with a commentary. I read up to, or down to the 33 Surat. I must admit that I have a mass of questions. I have a quote from my Qurans introductory page and it reads;
QUOTE; A number of individuals have in the past ventured to translate the Qur-an, but their works have generally been private attempts, greatly influenced by their own prejudices. In order to produce a reliable translation free from personal bias, a Royal decree (No. 19888, dated 16/8/1400 AH) was issued by the Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques, King Fahd ibn Abdul Aziz, at that time the deputy prime minister, authorizing the General Presidency of the Departments of Islamic Researches, Ifta, Call and Guidance to undertake the responsibility of revising and correcting a particular translation which would be selected for this purpose and made publicly available later.
UNQUOTE: The Presidency of Islamic Researches, IFTA, Call and Guidance
Only one Quran?
There are different translations of the Bible under different titles, and of that, no one has ever tried to deny. People tend to strengthen the points that support their theological beliefs and weaken or remove the points that speak against their theological beliefs.
However there is enough physical proof to be found in the world today, on display, to support the truth of God's Word. Kingdoms rose and fell when and how they were prophesied to, people were born and died as prophesied, and today through the European Union we see Prophesy being fulfilled again.
Prophesy that only God almighty Himself could foretell, I know that many people proclaim the power of the devil, but he does not know the future any better then we do. He had to read Isaiah and Revelation to find out how the Lord would return just like us, he had to read about God's plan of redemption just like us. He is a powerful adversary if we try to battle him in our wisdom and might, but, BUT, when we proclaim THUS SAYETH THE LORD… he, well how does Jesus say it, GET THEE BEHIND ME SATAN. Moreover, the Word of God says, resist the devil and he will flee.
The devils power comes through deception, if he can steal away your faith, cause you to doubt, then and only then is he more powerful then any child of God.
Well anyway, back to my questions.
When I first started reading the Quran I read that any where in the Quran that I found the word we it meant we the believers.
Then more then 38 times within the first few Surats I found; we created the heavens and earth, we forgive sins, we provide, needles to say I am puzzled.
Please do not be offended I am only puzzled, I have heard it said by Muslims that God is not essentially good but is only called good because He does good. He is named for His actions. If God is called good because He does good, should we call Him evil because He does evil?
I have heard that the Quran is a perfect copy of the perfect eternal word of God in heaven. That it was sent from God, a completely finished book of instructions for mankind.
And yet corrections or changes are made in the Quran after its delivery. Or why is there validation for these changes that seem to contradict themselves, i.e.
Sura 2:106 None of Our revelations Do We abrogate Or cause to be forgotten, But We substitute Something better or similar: Knowest thou not that Allah Hath power over all things?
Sura 10:64 For them are Glad Tidings, In the life of the Present And in the Hereafter: No change can there be In the Words of Allah. This is indeed The supreme Triumph.
Please can some of my Muslim brothers explain these puzzling statements?
I am getting long again so I'll end for now and start again with more questions that burn my brain for understanding.
Your Brother through the Sacrifice and redeeming blood of Christ, my Lord and Savior.
Jerry, the Berlin Bear

[relaxjack]

Salam

Let me see... if the story of Jesus (pbuh), narrated in the Quran, is found in the Gnostic Gospel, it must be wrong? Does similar story mean copying?

If that is the case, can I say the Bible copies from the Epic of Gilgamesh since the storyline is very identical?

One other thing, I am appealing to the moderator... can you please find a way to get rid of the 'cross' that comes with my name?

Thanks

[budin24]

i'm asking cristian brother, is there any sourches available in mohammad age related embriology, science etc??aper yang susah sangat nak terima hah!!!!

[Berlin Bear]

One other thing, I am appealing to the moderator... can you please find a way to get rid of the 'cross' that comes with my name?

This is similar to what the devil has been asking for over 2000 years.

THINK ABOUT IT!

For God so loved the world that He GAVE His only begotten Son...

Brother Jerry- The Berlin Bear

[newseed]

Salam

One other thing, I am appealing to the moderator... can you please find a way to get rid of the 'cross' that comes with my name?

Thanks

I think it can be changed. How much cash do you have?

If it really bothers you that much, you can always refrain from posting otherwise you will have to live with it.

[Believer]

i'm asking cristian brother, is there any sourches available in mohammad age related embriology, science etc??aper yang susah sangat nak terima hah!!!!

Aristotle studied stages of embryonic development in chickens 300 BC.
http://www.mlahanas.de/Greeks/AristotleBiol.htm

You believe the Quran has amazing new revelations in it...alot of those amazing sciences were already known.

[jeany]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... sha+christ