Houris in Zoroastrian Paradise, and Islam borrowed the idea

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Houris in Zoroastrian Paradise, and Islam borrowed the idea

Postby Believer » Wed Feb 18, 2004 12:17 am

Peace everyone,

Houris

In Islam, beautiful celestial black-eyed damsels of the Muslim paradise. They possess perpetual youth and beauty and their virginity is renewable at pleasure. They are the reward of every believer.

http://www.pantheon.org/articles/h/houris.html



The idea of beautiful maidens as a reward for works in heaven is something that universally brings to mind Islam.
However, these Houris are depicted in Zoroastrian paradise, which likely intrigued Muhammed. Jewish and Christians ideas of an afterlife lacked anything "cool" like women, food, thrones, gardens, fancy clothes, etc.
Persian priests wrote extensively about different pleasures in heaven and torments in Hell, these extensive writings with little doubt influenced the Quran.


[2.82] And (as for) those who believe and do good deeds, these are the dwellers of the garden; in it they shall abide.

[31:8] Surely, those who believe and lead a righteous life have deserved the gardens of bliss.

[18.107] Surely (as for) those who believe and do good deeds, their place of entertainment shall be the gardens of paradise,
[18.108] Abiding therein; they shall not desire removal from them.



6. O righteous one, according to your will, I shall accomplish to the extent of my power, your worship with good thoughts, good words, and good deeds. I shall open for myself the brilliant way of paradise so that the grievous punishment of hell may not be inflicted on me. I shall pass over the Chinwad bridge and attain to the abode of paradise which is very fragrant, all-embroidered, and of all happiness.
Nam Stayishn 6



Zoroastrian and Islamic concept of Paradise is the same.
Houris are even depicted in both heavens.


[55.70] In them are goodly things, beautiful ones.
[55.72] Pure ones confined to the pavilions.
[55.74] Man has not touched them before them nor jinni.
[55.76] Reclining on green cushions and beautiful carpets.

[44.53] They shall wear of fine and thick silk, (sitting) face to face;
[44.54] Thus (shall it be), and We will wed them with Houris pure, beautiful ones.



6. And he who is of the righteous passes over the bridge, and a worldly similitude of the pleasantness of his path upon it is when thou shalt eagerly and unweariedly walk in the golden-colored spring, and with the gallant (hu-chir) body and sweet-scented blossom in the pleasant skin of that maiden spirit, the price of goodness.
Dadestan-i Denig ('Religious Decisions') 21:6


Arda Viraf 4:18-36
8-14. When I came up there, I saw a soul of the departed, whilst in those first three nights the soul was seated on the top of the body, and uttered those words of the Gatha: 'Ushta ahmai yahmai ushta kahmaichit'; that is, 'Well is he by whom that which is his benefit becomes the benefit of any one else.' And in those three nights, as much benefit and comfort and enjoyment came to it, as all the benefit which it beheld in the world; just as a man who, whilst he was in the world, was more comfortable and happy and joyful through it.
15-17. In the third dawn, that soul of the pious departed into the sweet scent of trees; and he considered that scent which passed by his nose among the living; and the air of that fragrance comes from the more southern side, from the direction of God.
18-20. And there stood before him his own religion and his own deeds, in the graceful form of a damsel, as a beautiful appearance, that is, grown up in virtue; with prominent breasts, that is, her breasts swelled downward, which is charming to the heart and soul; whose form was as brilliant, as the sight of it was the more well-pleasing, the observation of it more desirable.
21. And the soul of the pious asked that damsel thus: 'Who art thou? and what person art thou? than whom, in the world of the living, any damsel more elegant, and of more beautiful body than thine, was never seen by me.'
23-36. To him replied she who was his own religion and his own deeds, thus: 'I am thy actions, O youth of good thoughts, of good words, of good deeds, of good religion. It is on account of thy will and actions that I am as great and good and sweet-scented and triumphant and undistressed as appears to thee. For in the world the Gathas were chanted by thee, and the
good water was consecrated by thee, and the fire tended by thee and the pious man who came from far, and who was from near, was honored by thee. Though I have been stout, I am made stouter through thee; and though I have been virtuous, I am made more virtuous through thee; and though I have been worthy, I am made more worthy through thee; and though I have been seated on a resplendent throne, I am seated more resplendently through thee; and though I have been exalted, I am made more exalted through thee; through these good thoughts and good words and good deeds which thou practicedst. They honored thee, and the pious man after thee, in that long worship and communion with Ohrmazd, when thou performedst, for Ohrmazd, worship and proper conversation for a long time. Peace be from it.


It is quite evident that the supposedly heavenly Quran reflects such a humanistic view of heaven only because it's concepts of Paradise were borrowed from a human religion, Zoroastrianism.

Now Muslims will say "Ah, but the Quran does not contain a borrowed belief about Paradise! The Quran confirms all previous revelations which includes Persian depictions of Paradise!"

But this contradicts Jesus Christ's teaching:
Matthew 22:30
At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.


This really ties the argument together because Christ teaches us that we will not even be married in heaven and after the Ressurection!
Certainly Christ also meant that we won't recieve women in heaven!
With clear evidence it seems the Quran only borrowed the concept of Houris from the Zoroastrian Magians.
In times past, God spoke in partial and various ways to our ancestors through the prophets;
in these last days, he spoke to us through a son, whom he made heir of all things and through whom he created the universe,
-Hebrews 1:1-2

Omega

Postby Omega » Wed Feb 18, 2004 12:32 am

Matthew 22:30
At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.



They{Angels}are asexual and so will all the children of God be at the regeneration. There are no need for reproductive organs at the end of the age, neither will there be sex. The body of the flesh desires the things that are of the flesh, the Spiritual body will in no way have fleshly desires but will be attracted to the things of the Spirit just as the flesh appeals to flesh so will the spirit appeal to the spirit.

18-20. And there stood before him his own religion and his own deeds, in the graceful form of a damsel, as a beautiful appearance, that is, grown up in virtue; with prominent breasts, that is, her breasts swelled downward, which is charming to the heart and soul; whose form was as brilliant, as the sight of it was the more well-pleasing, the observation of it more desirable


Anyone can see whats going on here, no? Anyone who is born of God will no longer have the lust of the eyes in the hereafter.

It is written:For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ver. 1 John 2:16,17

And if someone quotes Genesis 6:1,2 than I will be more than willing to answer that.

God Bless

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Postby Believer » Wed Feb 18, 2004 12:51 am

Peace Omega,

It's a characteristic of pagan religions to have this humanistic view of heaven. The Valhalla of the Vikings was a big hall where the warriors ate food and drank for eternity and were served by Valklyries.

The Persians also had a humanistic view of heaven, and Persian scribes and priests wrote alot about women, thrones, food and drink, embroidered clothing, etc in their paradise. Arda Viraf is just an old version of Dante's Divine Comedy!

It is evident that Islam is a humanistic religion that was fabricated by men, and it's paradise is quite like the Persians'. Even the bridge to heaven (As-Sirat vs. Chinwad) was just another borrowed belief.

The humanistic ungodly Muhammed could not stand a heaven without food, drink, lustful damsels, or resplended clothing.
Clearly this contradicts Christ's teaching about marriage at the Ressurection, and this covers anything about sex in heaven, Houris, etc.
In times past, God spoke in partial and various ways to our ancestors through the prophets;

in these last days, he spoke to us through a son, whom he made heir of all things and through whom he created the universe,

-Hebrews 1:1-2

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Postby Believer » Wed Feb 18, 2004 03:30 am

[55.70] In them are goodly things, beautiful ones.
[55.72] Pure ones confined to the pavilions.
[55.74] Man has not touched them before them nor jinni.
[55.76] Reclining on green cushions and beautiful carpets.


Khorda Avesta 15:39.
To him did the maids, whom no man had known, offer up a sacrifice on a golden throne, under golden beams and a golden canopy, with bundles of baresma and offerings of boiling milk.

:roll: :roll: :roll:
In times past, God spoke in partial and various ways to our ancestors through the prophets;

in these last days, he spoke to us through a son, whom he made heir of all things and through whom he created the universe,

-Hebrews 1:1-2

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Postby Scorpion » Wed Feb 18, 2004 03:49 pm

Beleiver, i wanted to add some more interesting information to your research ...

The Bridge Sirat.-



Moslems us the Prophet held that at the last day after the Judgment, all mankind will pass over this bridge, which is finer than a hair, and sharper than a sword; and that the wicked will fall from it into hell. Now what is the origin of the name Sirat? Though adopted into Arabic, it is of Persian origin, and called by the ancient Zoroastrians Chinavad,3. and its history is also derived from them, as will be seen from the following account taken from one of their ancient writings:-

I flee from much sin and I keep my conduct pure. The keeping pure of the six vital powers, -- conduct, speech, thought, intellect, reason, wisdom, -- according to thy will, O Author of the power to do good works, with justice do I perform it, that service of thine, in thought, speech, and deed. It is good for me to abide in the Bright way, lest I arriveat the severe punishment of Hell, that I may cross over Chinavad and may reach that blest abode, full of odour, entirely deli%tful, always bright. 4

The meaning of the Persian name is "the connecting link," the Bridge being that which joins earth with Paradise.


So muslim brothers/sisters ... is the Sirat real or just another fairy tale like the Jinns that came from Arabian myths?

Accept Jesus, hes not myth, hes a Legend. He's God, our Saviour, he'll take you to heaven. When you die, there will be no Sirat or no Allah, they're be hell for those that Reject Jesus. Eternal seperation from our Creator.
If Jerusalem Belongs To Muslims ... Mecca Belongs To The Jews

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Postby Scorpion » Wed Feb 18, 2004 03:59 pm

Im working on some research about the Koran that it has borrowed beleifs that are STRIKINGLY similar to Hinduism.

And oh ... i will give you people some good facts, because i should know about hinduism, i was a former hindu myself :)

Thanks Beleiver once again, great post.
If Jerusalem Belongs To Muslims ... Mecca Belongs To The Jews



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Postby Believer » Sun Feb 22, 2004 11:15 pm

Scorpion, I wonder what our Muslim friends will say about this.
In times past, God spoke in partial and various ways to our ancestors through the prophets;

in these last days, he spoke to us through a son, whom he made heir of all things and through whom he created the universe,

-Hebrews 1:1-2


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