Mohammed Did No Miracles ... Why?

[Scorpion]

Question: Why do people claim Mohammed to be the Greatest Prophet when he did no Miracles?

- He was illiterate
- He tried committing suicide several times
- He couldn't do any Miracles to authenticate his prophethood

The Injeel reports that Isa never sinned. His own disciples made this claim in I Peter 2:22 when the Apostle said that Isa "committed no sin, nor was any deceit found in His mouth." Isa Himself made the same claim in John 8:46, "Which one of you convicts me of sin?"

How can Isa be only a prophet if He never sinned? All men sin. The Quran, Hadith, and Injeel agree on this point. Even Mohammed. made mistakes. Isa made none.

Mohammed. is said to be a greater prophet than Isa, yet He performed no miracles. Even prophets before Isa performed miracles -- Moses, Samuel, Elijah, Isaiah, etc. Why is Mohammed. greater than all these if he performed no miracles to attest to who he was?

It might be interesting to note: Jesus is mentioned in the Quran 97 times, Mohammed is mentioned in the Quran 25 times. Jesus is mentioned more. Interesting.

While the hadiths give numerous miracles Mohammed did, including splitting the moon, these are all bogus, because Sura 17:90-93 says Mohammed did no miracles, except giving the Qur’an. Do you think that the hadiths that contradict the Qur’an are fake?

Mohammed needed forgiveness for his sin (or frailty) in Sura 40:55 and 48:1-2. Now people do not need forgiveness for physical frailties, but moral ones. Sahih Muslim 1:1695 says Mohammed prayed, "I wronged myself and make a confession of my sin. Forgive all my sins,…" Specific things(2) were burning out their eyes, and making them thirst as they died after their arms and legs were amputated. Do you agree these were evil sins?

Mohammed never produced miracles even when challenged to do so (3:181-4).

Quran - Miracle Of God?

A) Unique Literary Style – haphazard arrangement, grammatical mistakes
B) Mohammed's Illiteracy – translation of ‘illiterate’ prophet could be gentile
C) Perfect Preservation – variation exist even after 7th century Uthmanic recension
D) Prophecies – Roman victory over Persia could be disputed.
E) Unity – abrogation, no chronological or thematic order
F) Scientific Accuracy – scientific claims are a stretch, we do not start out as a blood clot
G) Changed Lives – by force!

Thanks. Kind Regards,
Scorpz.

[Alexei]

Hi Scorp

How can Isa be only a prophet if He never sinned? All men sin. The Quran, Hadith, and Injeel agree on this point. Even Mohammed. made mistakes. Isa made none

This was dicussed in full details in another thread and the problem was your poor understanding of the arabic language. Please refer to it.

Mohammed. is said to be a greater prophet than Isa, yet He performed no miracles. Even prophets before Isa performed miracles -- Moses, Samuel, Elijah, Isaiah, etc. Why is Mohammed. greater than all these if he performed no miracles to attest to who he was?

So greatness is measured by miracle caliber?
Let's see:
Moses miraculously turned his staff into a living serpent. Logically speaking, making a wood into a living serpent is greater marvel than revival of a dead man. Because the difference between a living man and a dead man is not as great as between a wood and a living serpent. Now Moses must be greater than Jesus!

In chapter 37 of Ezekiel, we are told that Ezekiel revived thousands of men from the dead. Thus, Ezekiel is greater than Jesus!

In 1 King 17:2-21, Elijah also revived dead men. Here Elijah is described as being a guest of a woman whose son died of sickness. Elijah prayed to God and the son became alive again.
A similar event is found in 2 Kings chapter 4 where Elisha is also described as having revived a dead man.
The same miracle was performed by Elisha even after his death, as is understood from II King chapter 13 where a dead man was put on his grave and revived by the Grace of God, its beats Jesus’ miracle by leaps and bounds.

This subject was discussed in details in "Muhammad-No Miracles" thread. Please refer to it.
For more:
http://www.geocities.com/noorullahwebsite/miracles.html

It might be interesting to note: Jesus is mentioned in the Quran 97 times, Mohammed is mentioned in the Quran 25 times. Jesus is mentioned more. Interesting.

Correction:
Jesus was mentioned by name 25 times.
Muhammed was mentioned by name 5 times.
However Muhammed was mentioned more than 400 times in verses like:
"Say (O Muhammad)".
So according to your logic:
Interesting

While the hadiths give numerous miracles Mohammed did, including splitting the moon, these are all bogus, because Sura 17:90-93 says Mohammed did no miracles, except giving the Qur’an. Do you think that the hadiths that contradict the Qur’an are fake?

Verses 17:90-93 are similar to Mark 8:11-13:
And the Pharisees came forth, and began to question with him, seeking of him a sign from heaven, tempting him. And he sighed deeply in his spirit, and saith, Why doth this generation seek after a sign? verily I say unto you, There shall no sign be given unto this generation. And he left them, and entering into the ship again departed to the other side.

Now, do you think these verses contradict other verses where they say that Jesus performed miracles? So the other verses where Jesus supposed to do miracles are fake?

As the Pharisees, skeptics from Jews and Arab pagans were not seeking the truth, but they were tempting Muhammad.

Mohammed needed forgiveness for his sin (or frailty) in Sura 40:55 and 48:1-2. Now people do not need forgiveness for physical frailties, but moral ones. Sahih Muslim 1:1695 says Mohammed prayed, "I wronged myself and make a confession of my sin. Forgive all my sins,…" Specific things(2) were burning out their eyes, and making them thirst as they died after their arms and legs were amputated. Do you agree these were evil sins?

This was dicussed in full details in another thread and the problem was your poor understanding of the arabic language. Please refer to it.

Mohammed never produced miracles even when challenged to do so (3:181-4).

Jesus in Mark 8 was challenged to produce a miracle but he didn't.
Refer to " Muhammad=no miracles" thread for full deatils.
For more:http://www.geocities.com/noorullahwebsite/miracles.html

Unique Literary Style – haphazard arrangement, grammatical mistakes

http://debate.domini.org/newton/learner.html
http://www.answering-christianity.com/q ... ammar2.htm

Mohammed's Illiteracy – translation of ‘illiterate’ prophet could be gentile

I didn't get your point here

Perfect Preservation – variation exist even after 7th century Uthmanic recension

http://answering-christianity.com/quran/other_books.htm

Prophecies – Roman victory over Persia could be disputed.

http://www.answering-christianity.com/r ... hecies.htm

Unity – abrogation, no chronological or thematic order

Scorp, do you read what we write? Or you're just a train that doesn't stop in any station:
The Noble Qur'an has an order based on subjects:
1- Legislation
2- Prophets's stories
3- Judgement days

And about abrogation:
http://www.geocities.com/noorullahwebsi ... ation.html
http://www.geocities.com/J_1975X/Quraan ... -Bible.htm

Scientific Accuracy – scientific claims are a stretch, we do not start out as a blood clot

Well it's not a blood clot. It'a an "alaqa" which mean "suspended thing" or "leech".
Refer to this site:
http://www.beconvinced.com/science/QURANEMBROY.htm

And as for the scientific miracles:
It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs [Matthew 15:26]

Changed Lives – by force!

Proves please!

Biblical Jesus was the one who ordered to kill the followers of other religions Exodus [22:19]
Biblical Jesus was the one who ordered to kill the nonbelievers [2 Chronicles 15:12-13]
Biblical Jesus was the one who ordered to kill the entire town if some persons worship another god [Deuteronomy 13:13-19]
Biblical Jesus was the one who ordered to kill the blasphemer [Leviticus 24:10-16].
Biblical Jesus was the one who ordered to kill any stranger who approaches the Tabernacle [Numbers 1:48-51]
Biblical Jesus was the one who ordered to kill 250 Levite princes who disagreed with Moses’ leadership [Numbers 16:35]


Alexei

[Scorpion]

Thanks for taking the time to reply. I've taken the time to read the Thread about Mohammed and no miracles.

Moses miraculously turned his staff into a living serpent. Logically speaking, making a wood into a living serpent is greater marvel than revival of a dead man. Because the difference between a living man and a dead man is not as great as between a wood and a living serpent. Now Moses must be greater than Jesus!

Under whose power and Authority did the Prophets do things? Who gave them the power to raise the Dead, who gave the Authority? Jesus.

There is no bigger miracle than Jesus resurrecting from the dead and defeating death and hades. No bigger miracle. Your very narrow minded my friend and when you say Moses was greater than Jesus, your incorrect. Moses's miracles were done by God, same goes for every Prophet, he was not Greater than God. The feeding of the 5,000, walking on water, raising the DEAD, healing the blind/deaf/dumb etc were far greater.

Jesus demonstrated his power over the Physical and the Spiritual, why? Because he was God.

Who was Jesus to Raise the dead? Who was he and which Authority did he have to give back somebody their life and raise them from the dead? He was God.

Who was he that the man possessed with a LEGION of Demons (6,000 to be precise) Saw Jesus from afar and WORSHIPPED him asking Jesus not to TORMENT him, who was he? God.

Who was he when the Pharisee's asked him if he is the MESSIAH, and Jesus answered "I am"? He was the Messiah, God.

Who was he to receive worship from so many people, to give life to others, to heal people, to comfort them, to attract crowds like magnets and change peoples hearts without force and was born SINLESS, the first person in history to be Perfect and NOT inherit sin? Jesus, was God.

Who was he to forgive sins? Only God can do that. Moses or anybody did not have these unique Qualities Jesus had my friend. You are deceived and need to read the Bible.

Well it's not a blood clot. It'a an "alaqa" which mean "suspended thing" or "leech".

Which one is man-made of, you cant have 2, its only one of them, was it a leech or a suspended "thing"? Could you be more precise to avoid people getting confused? Bible says precisely we were made from Dust of the ground. Surprisingly our body contains the same 14 elements of Dust, and God said that's what he made us from. (14 = 2 x 7, the 7's just keep coming up dont they)

Also ...

Can you tell me why you keep dismissing things as me having a "poor" understanding of Arabic and can you answer some of these ...

Why is it you need to learn a confusing language such as Arabic that is difficult to translate and it's original meaning to retain?

Can you tell me why God requires you to wear special clothing and pray in specific manners?

Also, can you please explain to me what is miraculous about the Quran even though it cannot be read by approximately 800 million muslims and why a person who wants to read the true Quran must learn Arabic, when the Bible is translated into many languages for all to hear the Word of God freely.

Also, why did Allah give the Revelation to Mohammed in a cave in Arabia through a spirit which greatly troubled Mohammed, and why does it seem Allah is hiding something that he should send an Angel who is 'violent' and caused Mohammed to be suicidal? Is this what Allah's angel's are like? Violent? Frightning?

Thanks.

[Alexei]

Hi Scorp

Under whose power and Authority did the Prophets do things? Who gave them the power to raise the Dead, who gave the Authority? Jesus.

There is no bigger miracle than Jesus resurrecting from the dead and defeating death and hades. No bigger miracle. Your very narrow minded my friend and when you say Moses was greater than Jesus, your incorrect. Moses's miracles were done by God, same goes for every Prophet, he was not Greater than God. The feeding of the 5,000, walking on water, raising the DEAD, healing the blind/deaf/dumb etc were far greater.

Jesus demonstrated his power over the Physical and the Spiritual, why? Because he was God.

Who was Jesus to Raise the dead? Who was he and which Authority did he have to give back somebody their life and raise them from the dead? He was God.

Who was he that the man possessed with a LEGION of Demons (6,000 to be precise) Saw Jesus from afar and WORSHIPPED him asking Jesus not to TORMENT him, who was he? God.

Who was he when the Pharisee's asked him if he is the MESSIAH, and Jesus answered "I am"? He was the Messiah, God.

Who was he to receive worship from so many people, to give life to others, to heal people, to comfort them, to attract crowds like magnets and change peoples hearts without force and was born SINLESS, the first person in history to be Perfect and NOT inherit sin? Jesus, was God.

Who was he to forgive sins? Only God can do that. Moses or anybody did not have these unique Qualities Jesus had my friend. You are deceived and need to read the Bible.

We believe that Jesus was just a messenger of God sent ONLY to the children of Israel to let them back to the law of Moses, and this can be seen many times in the NT.
So all his blessed miracles were done by THE WILL OF GOD exactly as the other prophets and messengers.

Which one is man-made of, you cant have 2, its only one of them, was it a leech or a suspended "thing"? Could you be more precise to avoid people getting confused?

http://www.beconvinced.com/science/QURANEMBROY.htm

Bible says precisely we were made from Dust of the ground. Surprisingly our body contains the same 14 elements of Dust, and God said that's what he made us from. (14 = 2 x 7, the 7's just keep coming up dont they)

Now back to the OH! CULTS!
The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: "Be". And he was," [The Noble Qur'an 3:59].

This was the first creation. Then God Almighty placed His Glorious Law of reproduction in humans:
O mankind! if ye have a doubt about the Resurrection, (consider) that We created you out of dust, then out of sperm, then out of a leech-like clot, then out of a morsel of flesh, partly formed and partly unformed, in order that We may manifest (our power) to you; and We cause whom We will to rest in the wombs for an appointed term, then do We bring you out as babes, then (foster you) that ye may reach your age of full strength; and some of you are called to die, and some are sent back to the feeblest old age, so that they know nothing after having known (much), and (further), thou seest the earth barren and lifeless, but when We pour down rain on it, it is stirred (to life), it swells, and it puts forth every kind of beautiful growth. [The Noble Qur'an 22:5].

Can you tell me why you keep dismissing things as me having a "poor" understanding of Arabic and can you answer some of these ...

Simply because you do not understand arabic language

Why is it you need to learn a confusing language such as Arabic that is difficult to translate and it's original meaning to retain?

Can you tell me why God requires you to wear special clothing and pray in specific manners?

How about Christians start to read their NT in its original Aramaic language Would it be easier for them?

Also, can you please explain to me what is miraculous about the Quran even though it cannot be read by approximately 800 million muslims and why a person who wants to read the true Quran must learn Arabic, when the Bible is translated into many languages for all to hear the Word of God freely.

Who told you that they can not read the Noble Qur'an in their own language? If this was correct, then why do we have all these translations. This is not correct at all.

Also, why did Allah give the Revelation to Mohammed in a cave in Arabia through a spirit which greatly troubled Mohammed, and why does it seem Allah is hiding something that he should send an Angel who is 'violent' and caused Mohammed to be suicidal? Is this what Allah's angel's are like? Violent? Frightning?

This was already answered and debunked in another thread, please refer to it.

Alexei

[Scorpion]

We believe that Jesus was just a messenger of God sent ONLY to the children of Israel to let them back to the law of Moses, and this can be seen many times in the NT.
So all his blessed miracles were done by THE WILL OF GOD exactly as the other prophets and messengers

Sure thing, that really explains why the greatest prophet was Illiterate and could not produce any miracles when asked.

How about Christians start to read their NT in its original Aramaic language Would it be easier for them?

The Bible has been translated into hundreds of languages, personally, i dont have a hard time reading and understanding the Bible, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to come to God ...

Matthew 11:30 - "For my yoke is EASY, and my burden is LIGHT"

Alexei ... do you really think the true Living God would require us to specially learn "Arabic" ... Wear special clothes, do special duties physically to our bodies, pray facing a specific direction? Are you really that deceived that you see no logic in doing this?

What difference does it make if you face Mecca and pray or face New York? Is it really going to make a difference? Either God is going to answer your prayer, or he wont. Doesn't matter what direction you face or wether you pray on a mat. Sometimes it really makes me think ... What REALLY makes Islam different if they carry the same Cult like characteristics that Hindu's, Buddhist's, Sikhs etc do?

I used to be a hindu myself, i know what background i come from, i know what bondage is like, i know what a Cult is like, In hinduism it's absolutely crazy you know, the amount of bondage there is, spiritual slavery, we have to do specific duties like cant wash your hair on a wednesday otherwise your "brother will fall sick" ... I Mean what crazy stuff, since when does washing your hair on a wednesday have to do with your brothers health?

Can i ask you Alexei ... Tell me ... Why should a non-beleiver worship Allah if nobody has seen him, and If you have to learn Arabic to read the real Quran, wear special clothing, pray 5 times a day ... What makes your traditional duties different from other Cults?

Can you please explain this to me clearly without pointing me to other sites. Thank you.

[Scorpion]

Quote From http://www.souldevice.org/islamgospel.htm

The Hajj involves the following rituals :

-Putting on Ihram, which includes:
No use of perfume (to help forget enjoyment of ordinary daily life).
No death or harm animals (to feel that everything belongs to Allah).
No breaking or uprooting plants (to suppress urge for aggression and feel love of nature).
No hunting (to develop mercy).
No weddings (to forget normal life and think of the creator).
No actions of dishonesty or arrogance (to behave like a servant of Allah).
No carrying of arms (to give up aggressive attitude).
No conjugal relations (to forget worldly pleasures).

-Going around the Kabah seven times.
-A fast walk between As-Safa and Al-Marwah.
-Visiting and staying at Mina, Arafat and Muzdalifah.
-Throwing pebbles at three fixed points in Mina.
-Shaving or trimming hair.
-Sacrificing an animal (camel, cow, goat or sheep).

===============================================

Here is just a brief list of some of the Cult like attributes of Hinduism which i came from ...

Count beads...
Meditate by saying the word "Ohm" repeatly even though all it does is attracts demons...
Dont wash your hair on wednesday otherwise your brother falls ill...
On a day called Kari-choudus ... Do not cross a cross-road otherwise you get bad-luck...
Do Yoga, meditate by blanking out your mind and let it get filled to the brim with demons...
Bury the dead by Cremating them (what the Caanites used to do)
Women must wear a Chandlo, a sticker like thing on their forehead, dont forget this represents the Third Eye, the Eye of Satan...

In a wedding Ceremony...

Go round a fire seven times
smash a coconut under a car's tyre
Listen to the Pandit preist babble garbage and make tons of money out of you
etc etc

Now ...

Can you tell me ... How does Islam differenciate itself from a Cult in terms of Prayers 5 times a day, the 5 Pillar's of Islam, Jihad, Good Deed's, Pilgrimage, Physical activities like growing a beard or wearing a special cap or clothing...

Can you tell me ... What makes Islam so special from other Cults and make's it ... Stand out above the rest

Awaiting your opinion. Thanks.

[Alexei]

Hi Scorp

Sure thing, that really explains why the greatest prophet was Illiterate and could not produce any miracles when asked.

Hope it will be the last time parrot:
Verses 17:90-93 are similar to Mark 8:11-13:
And the Pharisees came forth, and began to question with him, seeking of him a sign from heaven, tempting him. And he sighed deeply in his spirit, and saith, Why doth this generation seek after a sign? verily I say unto you, There shall no sign be given unto this generation. And he left them, and entering into the ship again departed to the other side.

Why Jesus didn't produce any miracles when asked?

Now, do you think these verses contradict other verses where they say that Jesus performed miracles? So the other verses where Jesus supposed to do miracles are fake?

As the Pharisees, skeptics from Jews and Arab pagans were not seeking the truth, but they were tempting Muhammad.
http://www.geocities.com/noorullahwebsite/miracles.html

Alexei ... do you really think the true Living God would require us to specially learn "Arabic" ... Wear special clothes, do special duties physically to our bodies, pray facing a specific direction? Are you really that deceived that you see no logic in doing this?

First:
You are not required to learn Arabic. This misconception is derived from your so-called Muslim friends that you met in the pub.
You can read the Noble Qur'an in your own native language or any other language.

Second:
Yeah of couse! A Tuxedo is required
Who told you that we shoould were special clothes?
This is not correct at all.
Another misconception from your so-called Muslim friends.

Third:
Islamic Prayers in the Bible:
An old and common misconception about Islam is that the Muslims prayers is unique to Islam. However, this is not very accurate. Muslims prayers were always obligatory to previous nations: Let's see:

First thing in Muslim prayer is the Azan or the call to prayer:

The Noble Qur’an: "O you who believe! when the call is made for the prayer....hasten to the rememberance of Allah" [The Noble Qur’an 6:29].
The Holy Bible: "And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying, make thee two trumphets of silver...that thou mayest use them for calling of the assembly...And when they shall blow them, all the assembly shall assemble themselves to thee at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation". [Numbers 10:1-3].

When enetring the Mosque, people should take off their shoes so that they may enter the holy house of worship in bare feet:

The Noble Qur’an: "When he came to the fire, a voice was uttered: O Moses! I am the Lord, therefore put off thy shoes, for thou art in the sacred valley of Tuwa." [The Noble Qur’an 20:11-12].
The Holy Bible: “(And god said to Moses), "Draw not nigh hither; put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground." [Exodus 3:5, also ACTS 7:33].

Before starting prayers, Muslims make Ablution, washing their faces, hands, etc...:

The Noble Qur’an: "O you who believe! when you rise up for prayer, wash your faces and your hands as far as the elbows, and wipe your heads, and wash your feet to the ankles." [The Noble Qur’an 5:7].
The Holy Bible: "And Moses and Aaron and his sons washed their hands and their feet threat; when they went into the tent of the congregation they washed as the Lord commanded Moses." [Exodus 40:31-32].

The Muslims stand for prayer facing the Kaaba:

The Noble Qur’an: "So turn thy face towards the sacred Mosque, and (O Muslims), wheresoever ye may be, turn your faces towards it." [The Noble Qur’an 2:150].
The Holy Bible: "Now when Daniel...went into the house; and his window being open in the chamber towards Jerusalem, he kneeled upon his knees three times a day, and prayed, and gave thanks before his God, as he did aforetime." [Daniel 6:10].

Muslims in thier prayers should prostrate before God, and make obeisance to Him, by touching the ground before them with their foreheads:

The Noble Qur’an: "O You who believe! bow down and prostrate yourselves and serve your lord, and do good that you may prosper." [The Noble Qur’an 22:77]
The Holy Bible: "And he (Jesus) went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed..." [Matthew 26:39]
"And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship..." [Joshua 5:14]
"And they (Moses and Aaron) fell upon their faces..." [Num 20:6]
"And Abraham fell on his face..." [Genesis 17:3]

At the end of the prayer, the Muslims spread out their hands to God, asking forgiveness, seeking his Blessings:

The Noble Qur’an: "Our Lord! Give us good in this world and good in the hereafter, and defend us from the torment of the fire." [The Noble Qur’an 2:201]
The Holy Bible: "...when Soloman had made an end of praying all his prayer and supplication unto the Lord, he arose from before the altar of the Lord, from kneeling on his knees with his hands spread up to Heaven" [1 Kings 8:54]
"And Jesus Lifted up his eyes and said, Father, I thank Thee that Thou heardest me. And i knew that Thou heardest me always: but because of the people which stand by I said it, that they may believe that Thou hast send me." [John 11:41-42]

Let's see the prayer of Moses in The Holy Bible:

“ And the LORD passed by before him, and proclaimed, The LORD, The LORD God, merciful and gracious, long-suffering, and abundant in goodness and truth, Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation. And Moses made haste, and bowed his head toward the earth, and worshipped”. [Exodus 34:6-8].

Let's see the prayer of David in The Holy Bible:

Please refer to Psalms 86

Why Muslims pray 5 times per day?

“Pray without ceasing”. [1 Thessalonians 5:17]

We find the different times of prayers in other religions for the performance of their worship. For example the Roman Catholic Christians pray in the morning before sunrise, then in the evening. The Jews have prayers at three times, as we read in the book of Daniel 6:10-13!
We find in the Psalms of David, specification of three times per day in Psalms 55:16-17 (morning, noon, and evening).

Why should a non-beleiver worship Allah if nobody has seen him

Can't you believe without seeing?
This was one of Jesus command! Do you remember?

Thank you
Alexei

[Alexei]

Hi Scorp

Can you tell me ... How does Islam differenciate itself from a Cult in terms of Prayers 5 times a day, the 5 Pillar's of Islam, Jihad, Good Deed's, Pilgrimage, Physical activities like growing a beard or wearing a special cap or clothing...

Ops! What's wrong with:
- Praying? Didn't Jesus pray?
- Fasting? Didn't Jesus fast?
- There's no God but Allah and Muhammad his prophet? Didn't Jesus said: "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent " [John 17:3].
- Jihad? If someone occupied your house and your land, won't you fight him back as a self defense? Didn't Jesus clean the temple at Jerusalem from the unscrupulous? Didn't he tell his disciples to buy swords to defend themselves?
- What's wrong with doing good deeds? Didn't Jesus did good deeds? It fits you more if we brought evil?

Growing a beard or wearing a cap are personl choices and religion doesn't oblige you to do it.

Why don't you fanatics wake up from your fanaticism and try to read and understand the Noble Qur'an and Islam from a neutral position, then you may launch your criticism? Why don't you give yourself a fair trial?

And for the rest, you can refer to the "Ahura Mazda has 101 names: The Quran vs. the Avesta" and "The Quran borrows many things from many sources" thread.

Alexei

[Alpha]

There's no God but Allah and Muhammad his prophet? Didn't Jesus said: "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent " [John 17:3].

Christ also said: I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. (John 14:6).

As for the rest of your post. I cannot say I disagree, but for those who follow Christ--our Kingdom is not this world, but the world to come.

[Scorpion]

Well said Alpha, if Jesus claimed to be God (which he did) and claimed to be THE TRUTH himself and THE way to get to Heaven ... He is either right ... or wrong.

If he is right, everything is right about him, the Death and Resurrection, the fact that you can get into heaven by just beleiving on him and his sacrifice ... Or choice number two ..

He is a complete liar, a lunatic, a false prophet and not anything ... And so are the other Old Testament prophets Liars and False Prophets for prophecying about Jesus's Death and Ressurection and Divinity.

The choice is yours.

[yazdimuslim]

In the name of God
Some miracles in Quran:
1-Quran says:"When you see the sky separates and goes like a melted flower"(verse 37 rahman)
And see this picture from nasa


2-Quran says in Rahman that men can't go out of earth except when having power on earth!(I dont know the exact verse)
Quran in 1400 years ago has said that people can go out of earth!

3-In a verse in Quran we have "...Rafii o darajat..."that means the greatest degree and if you sum up "raffi" by Abjad words we have 360!!!

4-The only metal that is a surah is Iron that is called "HAdid" in arabic
If you sum its letters by Abjad table you have 26 that is the number of Iron in peridioc table in chemistry!!

If you want more just ask!
Cheers
Mohammad

[Apple Pie]

Greetings yazdimuslim,

It appears that you need to study Sura 55, as it contains ZERO "scientific" information - but instead, is comprised entirely of Biblical Book of Revelation material...


Look...and you will see....

[yazdimuslim]

In the name of God
Thanks Apple Pie for your advice
But what is your opinion about these miracles that I wrote (There is more )
I will look at Surah 55 while you answer me!!
Please dont reject my answer to another place of Quran!
Thanks
Mohammad

[Apple Pie]

Greetings Mohammad,

I appreciate your reply…

In the name of God
Thanks Apple Pie for your advice
But what is your opinion about these miracles that I wrote (There is more )
I will look at Surah 55 while you answer me!!
Please dont reject my answer to another place of Quran!
Thanks
Mohammad

Well….let’s take a brief look at what you wrote….

2-Quran says in Rahman that men can't go out of earth except when having power on earth!(I dont know the exact verse)

Show me the ayah that you think states this, then we can discuss…

Quran in 1400 years ago has said that people can go out of earth!

First of all, bring forth the ayah that you feel is telling you this. Secondly, please show me an extant 1400 year old Koran…

3-In a verse in Quran we have "...Rafii o darajat..."that means the greatest degree and if you sum up "raffi" by Abjad words we have 360!!!

Sounds like you have been visiting too many Muslim propaganda sites.

Bring forth the ayah in question…

4-The only metal that is a surah is Iron that is called "HAdid" in arabic
If you sum its letters by Abjad table you have 26 that is the number of Iron in peridioc table in chemistry!!

Do you have any idea where this Sura obtained its title from…?

Let me give you a hint….The Biblical Book of Revelation.
The Koran is not a miracle, nor does it state anything new…

The Koran is simply a rehashment of Biblical material that has been translated from Biblical Hebrew & Greek into Arabic.

This will be come increasingly clear to you as you study both Holy Books side by side…



Thanks…

[yazdimuslim]

In the name of God
Well Apple Pie
these verses are:33,38 of al-rahman(55 surah)
I dont think if the iron title is from Bible then this clearly says that Quran isnt true,it seems a little bit deceiving ourself!
We need to think more maybe the Bible and Quran are from one God,well what do you think?
God keep everyone that works in his way!
Mohammad

[Apple Pie]

Greetings Mohammad,

Thanks for your reply…

In the name of God
Well Apple Pie
these verses are:33,38 of al-rahman(55 surah)

OK….

Now please exegete these ayahs for me and tell me how you arrive at your conclusions…thanks…

I dont think if the iron title is from Bible then this clearly says that Quran isnt true,it seems a little bit deceiving ourself!

Like I had already mentioned; the Koran is simply an Arabic rehashment of Biblical material.

Thus, it is prudent for the Muslim to look to the source of his (or her) Koran….


الْكِتَبُ “alkitabu” (the Holy Bible, OT & NT) is the source of the Koran. This is clearly and plainly stated in the Koran hundreds of times.

We need to think more maybe the Bible and Quran are from one God,well what do you think?

Well…if you indeed obtained the message of the Biblical material contained within the pages of your Koran, then you would now acknowledge Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior.

Did you get this message from your Koran?

If you did not, then we are not worshiping the same God…



Thanks…

[yazdimuslim]

In the name of God
Welcome Apple Pie
First my Quran says that believe Jesus (Pbuh) as a prophet and believe that he was one of the greatest prophets and if I dont then I,m not a Muslim!!
About Quran I should say Quran is the continue of the other holy books but there is a fact:
Some parts of Bible is corrupted and the most is what if a Muslim doesnt believe in them then he is not a Muslim!!
I always say Bible is from God.But some parts because of some dangers for some people! in the past was changed.

In Quran we have that some people change the trought to do their work and they will be in fire tomorrow!
This is acceptable! for the time when Mohammad (Pbuh) died!
And the only reason that Shia and sunni were made is this fact otherwise they believe in one Quran.
But a question:
Can you please explain for me why there are several kind of Bibles!

but About the miracles just see these places:
http://www.submission.org/miracle/iron.html
http://www.submission.org/miracle/nebula.html
http://www.submission.org/miracle/highe ... #Possessor
I add that the submission.org doesnt have my belief(Its sunni!)
About the going out from the universe I will write in my second reply Insha-allah
God keep the people that walk in his way and conduct others!
Mohammad

[Apple Pie]

Greetings Mohammad,

Thanks for your reply…

In the name of God
Welcome Apple Pie
First my Quran says that believe Jesus (Pbuh) as a prophet and believe that he was one of the greatest prophets and if I dont then I,m not a Muslim!!

If you are serious about your Koran, then you will also acknowledge that it proclaims that Jesus is God, as well…

http://www.jesus-christ-forums.com/home/viewtopic ... 5161#35161

About Quran I should say Quran is the continue of the other holy books but there is a fact:
Some parts of Bible is corrupted and the most is what if a Muslim doesnt believe in them then he is not a Muslim!!
I always say Bible is from God.But some parts because of some dangers for some people! in the past was changed.

I understand that you are force-fed this rhetoric during your Islamic training….however, since we are discussing Sura 55, I would like to give you this golden opportunity to show me where the Koran “corrects” or “clarifies” any of the Book of Revelation material contained within Sura 55…

If you understand the rhetoric that you purvey, then this should be an easy task for you…

Go ahead…please show me where Sura 55 “corrects” any “corruption” that is supposed to have occurred in the Holy Bible….I eagerly await your reply…

But a question:
Can you please explain for me why there are several kind of Bibles!

For the same reason that there are so many Korans….

Please tell me…which Koran do you follow…?

Since there is no “original” Koran in existence anywhere in the entire world….please tell me which Koran do follow….?

but About the miracles just see these places:
http://www.submission.org/miracle/iron.html
http://www.submission.org/miracle/nebula.html
http://www.submission.org/miracle/highe ... #Possessor
I add that the submission.org doesnt have my belief(Its sunni!)
About the going out from the universe I will write in my second reply Insha-allah
God keep the people that walk in his way and conduct others!
Mohammad

Now this is most interesting…..

When pressed to show me your exegesis on Sura 55 scripture, you declined, and can only bring forth “googled” webpaste as a reply?!

Furthermore, you openly admit that you do not adhere to the webpaste that you posted in the first place…

Please tell me exactly how this is supposed to convince anyone…when it does not even convince you….?

I want you to think for yourself, and give me your exegesis on the ayahs that you posited as “evidence” for your position. I am not interested in rhetoric webpaste that you “google” from the web.

If you are a serious Muslim, then you will put forth a concerted effort into your replies…


Thanks…

[yazdimuslim]

In the name of God
Greetings Apple pie
First of all I should explain my condition to continue!
I,m a 19 years old boy that studies in university (Civil engineering) in Iran
So my time is full and only when I come to university I can use Internet and other times I,m studing or doing something else.This is the Fact.
Only 45 minutes internet a day and I have other things to do with it!

But the second fact is :My writing and English is not very good so "Not a good condition!!)
Also I only have 19 years old so my experience in my reliegon is not as good as others,have that!!
Now I can say that its better to see these sites exept of wanting from me!
If you want the trought its up to you,if you want see those sites!
Please want things that I can do in my little time!
But yor topic that started with Surah Tareq:
Things that I know is that we have 2 kind verses in Quran. One is the verses that their meaning is clean!Everyone can understand its meaning!
But others are the "Motashabeh" verses that the meaning is separate from its wordish meaning!!
Everyone has a advice on its meaning but refering to Quran only God and who has power on science knows the right meaning!
These verses that you explained are exactly the "Motashabeh"s!
Because you explain the verses this like and another person says another!
Like the verses "The hand of God is up their hands!"

But you suprized me when you said:
---------------------------------------------------------
Please tell me…which Koran do you follow…?

Since there is no “original” Koran in existence anywhere in the entire world….please tell me which Koran do follow….?
-------------------------------------------------------------
If you say this to a Muslim he will laugh because even Sunni,Shia,Sufi,Salafi,Hanbali,Shafeii,Maleki and........believes in one Quran.
When you say Surah55 all one say Al-rahman when you say verse "x" from surah "y" all one will read one Verse.
I cant define what your saying!can you explain more.Do you refer to different Tafsirs?
Well my purpose was :
Why they are different kind of Bibles?
For the Surah 55 I can say I read it exactly once a week but I didnt find your goal there!
Answer the quiz yourself!!
Remember at the finish that my Free time is very short and today I just spend 45 minutes of my internet time and nothing left!
But it doesnt matter
Have a good time praying God
Mohammad

[Apple Pie]

Greetings Mohammad,

Thanks for your reply…

In the name of God
Greetings Apple pie
First of all I should explain my condition to continue!
I,m a 19 years old boy that studies in university (Civil engineering) in Iran
So my time is full and only when I come to university I can use Internet and other times I,m studing or doing something else.This is the Fact.
Only 45 minutes internet a day and I have other things to do with it!

But the second fact is :My writing and English is not very good so "Not a good condition!!)
Also I only have 19 years old so my experience in my reliegon is not as good as others,have that!!
Now I can say that its better to see these sites exept of wanting from me!
If you want the trought its up to you,if you want see those sites!
Please want things that I can do in my little time!

Well…with all due respect, I am not really interested in the excuses that you can come up with for not backing-up your assertions.

After all, this is a debate forum, and if you are unable to take the time to back up the assertions that you put forth, then, by all means, don’t put them forth in the first place if you don’t want them challenged.

Like I already mentioned, if you are a serious Muslim, then you will make the time necessary to exegete the ayahs that you (apparently) know nothing about…

But yor topic that started with Surah Tareq:
Things that I know is that we have 2 kind verses in Quran. One is the verses that their meaning is clean!Everyone can understand its meaning!
But others are the "Motashabeh" verses that the meaning is separate from its wordish meaning!!
Everyone has a advice on its meaning but refering to Quran only God and who has power on science knows the right meaning!
These verses that you explained are exactly the "Motashabeh"s!
Because you explain the verses this like and another person says another!
Like the verses "The hand of God is up their hands!"

Hmmm…..then please tell me what specifically bothers you regarding my Sura 86 exegesis…

But you suprized me when you said:
---------------------------------------------------------
Please tell me…which Koran do you follow…?

Since there is no “original” Koran in existence anywhere in the entire world….please tell me which Koran do follow….?
-------------------------------------------------------------
If you say this to a Muslim he will laugh because even Sunni,Shia,Sufi,Salafi,Hanbali,Shafeii,Maleki and........believes in one Quran.

Do you find the truth funny….?

When you say Surah55 all one say Al-rahman when you say verse "x" from surah "y" all one will read one Verse.
I cant define what your saying!can you explain more.Do you refer to different Tafsirs?

Again….I want YOUR exegesis on the ayahs that you posited (from Muslim rhetoric websites)…

I want you to think for yourself.

I don’t want you to keep hiding behind a website.

Understand…?

Well my purpose was :
Why they are different kind of Bibles?

Again…my reply…for the same reason that there are different Korans…..which one do you believe in….?

This is not a trick question.

For the Surah 55 I can say I read it exactly once a week but I didnt find your goal there!
Answer the quiz yourself!!

And…just what is my “goal” with Sura 55….?

Remember my request….exegete the ayahs that you feel somehow supports your original assertions.

Simple…

Remember at the finish that my Free time is very short and today I just spend 45 minutes of my internet time and nothing left!
But it doesnt matter

Truth does not have a time limit…and…it DOES matter…

Have a good time praying God
Mohammad

To the God of the Holy Bible, only…..yes…!




Take care…

[(Omega)]

OOPS wrong thread!

Although I do not believe that the Quran was wriiten by the True God I am still interested in seeing what muslims have to say regarding the Deity of Christ in the Quran!

PART 2: The Titles of Christ in the Qur'an which show His deity

Jesus son of Mary, was only(*) a messenger of Allah , and His Word which he conveyed unto Mary and a Spirit from Him”

(*as you will notice from the transliteration underneath there is no word for “only” within the Arabic Text of the Qur’an but “only” has been added into the imperfect “Explanatory translation” by Pickard.) Here is an imperfect transliteration of the text “inima Al Meseeh, Rasool Allah, wa Kilimituh Al Qaha ili Maryam wa Ruh minuh.” (The Women (Surah 4) verse 170)

In the Qur'an there are titles, names and attributes for Christ which give Him a glorified and a higher rank above all other apostles. HE was distinguished by three titles:

1. He is “the Christ (or Messiah) of God”.

2. He is “the Word of God”.

3. He is “the Spirit of God”.

These titles are more sublime than any other titles. They give him a higher rank than any person. As Muslims say they show the greatness of Christ and prove that he had a special relationship with the Creator. We read in the Qur'an that if we are in doubt about these things we should ask those who had a Holy Book before us; “And if thou art in doubt concerning that which we reveal unto thee, then question those that read the Scripture before thee.” (Jonah (Surah 10) verse 94)

Let us examine these three Titles;

1. Isa the son of Mary is the Christ of God

“when the angels said; O Mary! Lo! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a word from Him whose name is the Messiah Jesus son of Mary” ( The Family Of Imran (Surah 4) verse 45)

Isa the Son of Mary is the Christ i.e. the Messiah. (Christ is the Greek word which means Messiah), or the Anointed One); “The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary” (The Women 171). It is his name and a title as well; “O Mary! Lo! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a word from Him whose name is the Messiah” (The Family Of Imran (Surah 4) verse 45)

The angels carried this name from heaven to earth and God himself through the angels gave the good news to Mary telling her the name of the baby; “when the angels said; O Mary! Lo! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a word from Him whose name is the Messiah.” It is a heavenly name inspired by God. He gave him a special message and the name is evidence of his character and who he is. The meaning of the word Messiah is “he was anointed and sent” and therefore that he is a "Mercy for the whole world".

God through his prophets announced the coming of the Messiah and described his character and his message. When the Qur'an came, The Qur’an witnessed about what was said by the Bible about Christ, and in this way the Qur'an proved that Isa the Son of Mary is the Messiah of God whom the people were waiting for. He was the dream of humanity and the one they were hoping for generation after generation. He came with the great message, which the prophets before him prophesied about.

When the Qur'an declared that Isa the Son of Mary is Christ whom God had promised to send to the world it witnessed to what was said about him in the Torah (The Old Testament Law) and the Gospel. The confession of the Qur'an proves that Isa carried out the message given to him by God. Both the Bible and the Qur'an witness that Isa the Son of Mary is the Christ and the prophet promised by God and that “ whose name is the Messiah Jesus son of Mary.” (The Family of Imran (Surah 3) verse 45)

If you would check the whole Qur'an you will find only one prophet who is called the Messiah (or the Christ). This is because it was a specific title given to Jesus whom the Scriptures prophesied about. He is the only one who is distinguished by this name.

http://www.mutenasserin.net/mutenasserin/english/fq/jesus_quran.html

Have a nice day!

[(Omega)]

On a short note, I searched the entire web and the name Pickard was extremely obscure, hmmm.......

http://www.salaam.co.uk/themeofthemonth/june02_index.php?l=35

Matthew 24:24 - For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

[yazdimuslim]

In the name of God
Welcome Apple pie
Maybe your right,I shouldnt have started a discussion that I dont have time to be challenged...!
But your exegesis about Surah 86 :
Maybe your right and maybe your not!
I dont have this power to say that your exegesis is the exact exegesis of this Surah!
I dont accept this exegesis is absolutely correct nor deny it!

I also didnt refer to the exegesis of those verses that I send to you.(exept of the two verses in Alrahman) I refered to the Mathematic miracle in them:

15- [40:15] Possessor of the highest degrees, and Ruler of the whole dominion. He sends inspiration, bearing His commands, to whomever He chooses from among His servants, to warn about the Day of Summoning.

“Rafey el-daragat” is translated as “the possessor of the highest degrees”. The word “Rafey” expresses highness and the word “el-daragat” expresses the degrees. The mathematical value of “Rafey ”, which states the highest degree, is 360. And this number is the equivalent of the highest degree in the universe. The mathematical values are as follows:

Ra = 200

Fe = 80

Ye = 10

Ayn = 70
________

Sum = 360

See!these are not exegesis but Mathematic miracle!
Or for the Iron I said:

The Quran shows other mathematical miracles by pointing out the iron’s atomic number, which is 26, in different ways.

In the Quran, there is a mathematical value for every letter. The mathematical value for the word iron (hadid) is 26.

Ha
= 8

Da
= 4
Ya
= 10
Da
= 4
Total
= 26
See!these are not exegesis but Mathematic miracle!
But about the exegesis of two verse in Alrahman:
maybe your right,maybe the exegesis of these verses that are written in that site isnt true and God in pointing to another fact!
I dont accept this exegesis is absolutely correct nor deny it!
well ,I will think for myself.
And if I find a point I will post it quickly.

But I found something intresting in that site:

The 59th verse of the sura The Family of Imran, points to a similarity between Adam and Jesus. There is no other comparison like that between any other two prophets in the Quran. How many times are these prophets’ names used in the Quran? In equal number, exactly 25 time each. The verse that points to the similarity between Jesus and Adam is given below:

[3:59] The example of Jesus, as far as GOD is concerned, is the same as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him, "Be," and he was.
Number of occurrence of Adam and Jesus (Pbuh) is 25.
If we study the gematrical value of the names, Jesus ('Eysy in Arabic) and Adam (Aadm in Arabic) we will find that the G values of Jesus 70 10 60 10 and of Adam 1 1 4 40.

If we add all the digits in 701060101140 = 25.

25 = the frequency of the words Jesus and Adam in the whole Quran.

Some people declare Jesus incarnation of God as he was created without a father in total disregard of the omnipotence of God. God gives Adam as an example, since he was created both without father and mother. By doing so, God shows how illogical it is to attribute to Jesus divine qualifications. God, while referring to the similarity between Adam and Jesus, also supports this statement with numerical miracles using both names 25 times each in the Quran. The mathematical miracle is not limited to this alone.
GOD is controlling everything!
well,at the end can you count different Korans and name them.
Thanks!
God bless every one with a clean heart! and conduct him to his way.
Amin
Mohammad

[Alpha]

15- [40:15] Possessor of the highest degrees, and Ruler of the whole dominion. He sends inspiration, bearing His commands, to whomever He chooses from among His servants, to warn about the Day of Summoning.

“Rafey el-daragat” is translated as “the possessor of the highest degrees”. The word “Rafey” expresses highness and the word “el-daragat” expresses the degrees. The mathematical value of “Rafey ”, which states the highest degree, is 360. And this number is the equivalent of the highest degree in the universe. The mathematical values are as follows:

Ra = 200

Fe = 80

Ye = 10

Ayn = 70
________

Sum = 360

See!these are not exegesis but Mathematic miracle!
Or for the Iron I said:

The Quran shows other mathematical miracles by pointing out the iron’s atomic number, which is 26, in different ways.

In the Quran, there is a mathematical value for every letter. The mathematical value for the word iron (hadid) is 26.

Ha
= 8

Da
= 4
Ya
= 10
Da
= 4
Total
= 26
See!these are not exegesis but Mathematic miracle!
But about the exegesis of two verse in Alrahman:
maybe your right,maybe the exegesis of these verses that are written in that site isnt true and God in pointing to another fact!
I dont accept this exegesis is absolutely correct nor deny it!
well ,I will think for myself.
And if I find a point I will post it quickly.

But I found something intresting in that site:

The 59th verse of the sura The Family of Imran, points to a similarity between Adam and Jesus. There is no other comparison like that between any other two prophets in the Quran. How many times are these prophets’ names used in the Quran? In equal number, exactly 25 time each. The verse that points to the similarity between Jesus and Adam is given below:

[3:59] The example of Jesus, as far as GOD is concerned, is the same as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him, "Be," and he was.
Number of occurrence of Adam and Jesus (Pbuh) is 25.
If we study the gematrical value of the names, Jesus ('Eysy in Arabic) and Adam (Aadm in Arabic) we will find that the G values of Jesus 70 10 60 10 and of Adam 1 1 4 40.

If we add all the digits in 701060101140 = 25.

25 = the frequency of the words Jesus and Adam in the whole Quran.

We can play the same game with the Bible codes and use mathematic manipulation to come up with things. So this is not the best way to prove a Divinely inspired book. Stick to the basics: Islam has yet to refute the prophecies of Jesus in the Old Testament and Islam has yet to prove Christ was not killed. Just on that alone, Islam is flawed. Something as tangible as the resurrection is not even supported by the Qu'ran. The Bible contains prophecies on Christ's death for the sins of man thousands of years before it happened, and you expect a Divinely inspired book to say Christ was not killed but someone who looked like Him was? Surely God can do better than that.

Some people declare Jesus incarnation of God as he was created without a father in total disregard of the omnipotence of God. God gives Adam as an example, since he was created both without father and mother. By doing so, God shows how illogical it is to attribute to Jesus divine qualifications.

Phillipians 2:5-7> Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross.

well,at the end can you count different Korans and name them.

Warsh, Qalun, Idris al-Haddad, Ishaq, Ibn Wardan, Ibn Jamaz, Ruways, al-Duri, Khalaf, Khallad, Qunbul, Abu'l-Harith and much more..........

Keep in mind, that it is only some Muslims who bring up the argument of different versions. Those with understanding realize that even with different versions, that does not take away from the overall message. We all do not speak the same language and english today is not the same as in the 1600's. With this said, all the manuscript evidence (more than any historical writing) for the Holy Bible agree over 95% with some variants contributing to the rest of the percentage (less than 5%--Manuscripts get old and letters fade). So not only does the Bible have more manuscript evidence to support it more than any historical writing (especially more than the Qu'ran), it is also more accurate than any historical writing.

[Apple Pie]

Greetings Mohammad,

Thanks for sharing your comments…and a special thanks to Alpha for some fine input to this conversation, as well…

In the name of God
Welcome Apple pie
Maybe your right,I shouldnt have started a discussion that I dont have time to be challenged...!

Thanks for acknowledging this…

But your exegesis about Surah 86 :
Maybe your right and maybe your not!
I dont have this power to say that your exegesis is the exact exegesis of this Surah!
I dont accept this exegesis is absolutely correct nor deny it!

If this is the case, then how can you be sure regarding your “faith”..?

Sura 86, all by itself, totally decimates what most Muslims adhere to in their belief system….and it is all nice and neat in one compact sura…

I also didnt refer to the exegesis of those verses that I send to you.(exept of the two verses in Alrahman) I refered to the Mathematic miracle in them:

15- [40:15] Possessor of the highest degrees, and Ruler of the whole dominion. He sends inspiration, bearing His commands, to whomever He chooses from among His servants, to warn about the Day of Summoning.

“Rafey el-daragat” is translated as “the possessor of the highest degrees”. The word “Rafey” expresses highness and the word “el-daragat” expresses the degrees. The mathematical value of “Rafey ”, which states the highest degree, is 360. And this number is the equivalent of the highest degree in the universe. The mathematical values are as follows:

Ra = 200

Fe = 80

Ye = 10

Ayn = 70
________

Sum = 360

See!these are not exegesis but Mathematic miracle!

Well…since we have laid to rest the first portion of your assertion, let’s see what you have for your next Koranic “miracle”…



رَفِيعُ الدَّرَجَتِ ذُو الْعَرْشِ يُلْقِي الرُّوحَ مِنْ أَمْرِهِ عَلَى مَنْ يَشَاءُ مِنْ عِبَادِهِ لِيُنْذِرَ يَوْمَ التَّلَاق

RafeeAAu alddarajati thoo alAAarshi yulqee alrrooha min amrihi AAala man yashao min AAibadihi liyunthira yawma alttalaqi

Raiser/honourer (of) the steps/stages/degrees, of the throne, He throws the Soul/Spirit from His order/command on (to) whom He wills/wants from His worshippers/slaves to warn/give notice (of) the Meeting Day/Resurrection Day. 40:15


Proper understanding of the text under consideration takes into account the context of the ayah. Do you understand the context of this ayah….?

It is, once again (surprise, surprise), smack-dab in the middle of Biblical Book of Revelation Eschatological material….surely you are aware of this….

Thus, if you want to pull some webpaste gematria from the Muslim rhetoric websites, then you must also be willing to apply the “miracle” to its source, the Holy Bible…

If you want to go the route of utilizing Gematria and Isopsephia to show divineness of scripture, then perhaps you should look carefully at the following websites that show statistical probability towards such events…


http://www.theomatics.com/


http://www.biblewheel.com/



You will soon discover for yourself that the Koran plays second fiddle (once again) to the power of the Holy Bible…

Or for the Iron I said:

The Quran shows other mathematical miracles by pointing out the iron’s atomic number, which is 26, in different ways.

In the Quran, there is a mathematical value for every letter. The mathematical value for the word iron (hadid) is 26.

Ha
= 8

Da
= 4
Ya
= 10
Da
= 4
Total
= 26
See!these are not exegesis but Mathematic miracle!

Hmmm….then, since Yahweh, in the Holy Bible, also has a numerical value of 26, what does this state…?!

That’s right….!

It’s a miracle….!

Not only does Yahweh mean 26, iron’s atomic number, but the Holy Bible stated this thousands of years BEFORE the Koran…

Here is another example regarding the famous code 19 in the Koran…

Ever taken the time to look up 19:19…?

That’s right….it speaks of Jesus…our Lord and Savior….

It’s a miracle…..!

But about the exegesis of two verse in Alrahman:
maybe your right,maybe the exegesis of these verses that are written in that site isnt true and God in pointing to another fact!
I dont accept this exegesis is absolutely correct nor deny it!
well ,I will think for myself.
And if I find a point I will post it quickly.

There is no doubt that I am correct in my exegesis…it is beyond any reasonable doubt…

But I found something intresting in that site:

The 59th verse of the sura The Family of Imran, points to a similarity between Adam and Jesus. There is no other comparison like that between any other two prophets in the Quran. How many times are these prophets’ names used in the Quran? In equal number, exactly 25 time each. The verse that points to the similarity between Jesus and Adam is given below:

[3:59] The example of Jesus, as far as GOD is concerned, is the same as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him, "Be," and he was.
Number of occurrence of Adam and Jesus (Pbuh) is 25.
If we study the gematrical value of the names, Jesus ('Eysy in Arabic) and Adam (Aadm in Arabic) we will find that the G values of Jesus 70 10 60 10 and of Adam 1 1 4 40.

If we add all the digits in 701060101140 = 25.

25 = the frequency of the words Jesus and Adam in the whole Quran.

Some people declare Jesus incarnation of God as he was created without a father in total disregard of the omnipotence of God. God gives Adam as an example, since he was created both without father and mother. By doing so, God shows how illogical it is to attribute to Jesus divine qualifications. God, while referring to the similarity between Adam and Jesus, also supports this statement with numerical miracles using both names 25 times each in the Quran. The mathematical miracle is not limited to this alone.
GOD is controlling everything!

Not very impressive “evidence”.

Have you ever taken the time to compare the Koranic “creation” accounts of Adam & Jesus..?

I would invite you to do so, as they definitely show the divinity of Jesus over that of Adam…

Relying on a preconceived Koranic Gemantria “miracle” will only leave you with a hopeless situation that can easily be refuted…



Thanks…

[yazdimuslim]

In the name of God
Thanks Apple pie and Alpha
Today is my weekend and I can only quickly answer!
You just remember that I absolutely believe in Bible and its miracles(esp. mathemathical) but :
Something is wrong!I said these verses are Motashabeh but my Faith isnt Motashabeh!!!!!
Can you understand this.My faith is from the first kind of verses not the second.(The second type is few verses)
But something that attract me in quran mathemathic miracles is that Mohammad that was illiterate has these in his Book! Not the numbers attracted me!
Until two days later!
Bye
God bless every one with a clean heart! and conduct him to his way.
Amin
Mohammad

[yazdimuslim]

In the name of God
Well Apple pie and Alpha! I,m back!
I will write my opinions about why I believe to Mohammad(Pbuh) and then you start!
1-I found in Quran everything that is involved with my life, nothing less and nothing more,plus I found the miracles of the prophet enough.
2-I have read the history of Mohammad (Pbuh) that what he was and what he becomed and how he died! all of this points hadent given me any doubt even to think that "maybe he isnt a prophet!"
I cant write my feelings about it!
3-when I do my Prays I feel that how connecting to God is so easy and it works like a medicine so I dont get angry,dont do bad things and so on.
4-I believe to all prophets by accepting Islam and all of them are the same!
5-The topic "Islam" is the beautiful thing that I have heard, it means:
To put God your only boss and only do his commands
6-Make God commands done in the society
7-never offend anything!!
8-having the second come of the Jesus(Pbuh) at the end
9-and much more that I will write later

But aQuestion
1-Do you know the "Mobaheleh"verse?can you explain if yes.
Because I,m a Shia I will write more about our Imams speeches so it should help better!
God bless every one with a clean heart! and conduct him to his way

Mohammad

[H2O]

Of course they know nothing about the Shia beliefs brother, so your going to have to give them some time while they consult their Christian websites on Shia beliefs, or until they go do some study then come back. So dont expect a response anytime soon its going to be a while for them...

[Apple Pie]

Greetings Mohammad,

Thanks for your comments…

In the name of God
Well Apple pie and Alpha! I,m back!
I will write my opinions about why I believe to Mohammad(Pbuh) and then you start!
1-I found in Quran everything that is involved with my life, nothing less and nothing more,plus I found the miracles of the prophet enough.

What “miracles”….?

Translating Biblical Hebrew & Greek material into Arabic is a “miracle” to you….?

It’s not to me...

2-I have read the history of Mohammad (Pbuh) that what he was and what he becomed and how he died! all of this points hadent given me any doubt even to think that "maybe he isnt a prophet!"
I cant write my feelings about it!

Great…

Then you will have absolutely no problem accepting Joseph Smith as a “prophet”, as well…

3-when I do my Prays I feel that how connecting to God is so easy and it works like a medicine so I dont get angry,dont do bad things and so on.

Well…this is nice that you feel this way…however, this will do nothing for your salvation…

4-I believe to all prophets by accepting Islam and all of them are the same!

All prophets are the same….?

5-The topic "Islam" is the beautiful thing that I have heard, it means:
To put God your only boss and only do his commands

Which God…?

6-Make God commands done in the society

What commandments…?

7-never offend anything!!

Can you show me where this is stated in the Koran…?

8-having the second come of the Jesus(Pbuh) at the end

Again…can you show me where this is stated in the Koran…?

9-and much more that I will write later

Well…getting back to your original post in this thread, please detail and exegete the “miracle” Koranic scriptures for us, please…

Before you continue to go off in a tangent; I want to see if you can back-up what you have already asserted as truth…

But aQuestion
1-Do you know the "Mobaheleh"verse?can you explain if yes.
Because I,m a Shia I will write more about our Imams speeches so it should help better!
God bless every one with a clean heart! and conduct him to his way

Perhaps you can elaborate on your verse for us…



Thanks…

[yazdimuslim]

In the name of God
Hello Apple pie
Well...Thanks H20 for your friendly advice (I know you as a brother!)
because I only have 5minutes time I only write a briefly replying topics
I will write more
1-The miracles of Mohammad(Pbuh) is first spliting the moon and second is the orders that he said to the tree that Ali(Pbuh) (The first Imam) saw it plus some of his enemies.
2-I dont understand the second topic,just explain more!
3-about the third I said that :this is why I believed Islam because I feel that how connecting to God is so easy and it works like a medicine so I dont get angry,dont do bad things and so on.
4-All prophets are not the same in degree but are same in believing them!
We dont have a "except!"
5-Dont answer my topic with a question!!
.
.
Bye

[Apple Pie]

Greetings Mohammad,

Thanks for your sharing your comments…

1-The miracles of Mohammad(Pbuh) is first spliting the moon

Your “prophet” split the moon?!

Please show me where this is stated in your Koran…

and second is the orders that he said to the tree that Ali(Pbuh) (The first Imam) saw it plus some of his enemies.

Again…..you are having the greatest difficulty in backing-up your assertions….where is this stated in your Koran…?

2-I dont understand the second topic,just explain more!

Joseph Smith’s life paralleled that of your “prophets” life….please tell me why you reject Smith and accept your “prophet”…?

3-about the third I said that :this is why I believed Islam because I feel that how connecting to God is so easy and it works like a medicine so I dont get angry,dont do bad things and so on.

Let me repeat…this is nice that you feel this way…however, this will do nothing for your salvation…

4-All prophets are not the same in degree but are same in believing them!
We dont have a "except!"

Then you will have no trouble believing that the prophet Jesus is actually God Almighty – as clearly stated in your Koran!

5-Dont answer my topic with a question!!

You repeatedly come to the table with statements that you are unable to support with evidence…..thus, it is clear that you need constant prompting in order for you to see the error of your ways…



Take care…

[Kai Hagbard]

Hi yazdimuslim
I am not sure if it is worth relying our faith on the various miracolous aspects of religion.

In Christianity we also push our Biblical science, the miracle of the mathimatical 7 system in the Bible, and miracles of secret codes, the so socalled number 9 nine code.

In addition to this Christianity is rich in the use of miracles, healing, visions, etc. A lot of people convert to Christianity (Muslims as well), because divine revelations.

Supernatural experience, contact with God, and divine presence is common in the life of most true Christians.

However, all these miracolous significants, even though impressive, should not be taken as the solem criteria on which we base our faith.

However, yazdimuslim, you seem like a good guy, I like your style

God bless

Kai

[yazdimuslim]

In the name of God
At first thank Kai for your information (That are absolutely right!) my only purpose was to show some points in Quran mathematical clues and i said before :

But something that attract me in quran mathemathic miracles is that Mohammad that was illiterate has these in his Book! Not the numbers attracted me!

But hello Apple pie
excuse me for writing with rush!
I was in the internet room and the administor said that I should shutdown at 5 minutes!!

1-the splitting moon is refered in :
Qamar(54) even if it refers to the Qiyamat
But I should add : is it importment that Quran refers to Mohammad (Pbuh) miracles?!
Quran is the book of guidence not events!
But also we have alot of Hadises(The speech of Imam or people that is about Mohammad (Pbuh) speech or events in his time)about this event that we cant deny it (Just please study more about it! )

And the second point (the tree that did the prophet orders) .Imam Ali (Pbuh) that is realy a big man(that we say he has a degree near Mohammad(Pbuh)) saw this event.(Just please please please! study more about it! and also Shia! )

----------------------------------------------------------
Imam Ali main life points:
1-was borned in the Kabeh!!!!!!!!!!!WOW!(Please study more about Shia! )
2-he was the first man that accepted Mohammad(Pbuh) and when??
When he was 10!!
3-After accepting Mohammad(Pbuh) he was nurtured by Mohammad(Pbuh)
that he says"there was not a night that Mohammad(Pbuh) didnt open to me big doors of wisdom!
4-he slept at the "Mabit" night in Mohammad(Pbuh) bed so he could stay alive!WOW!(God told Mohammad(Pbuh) that they want to kill you tonight so escape and I add Please study more about Shia! )
And lots more that I will write if you want!! remember if YOU WANT
---------------------------------------------------------------
2-I havent heard about Joseph Smith’s .Please tell me his life.
3-well let me repeat that this point refers to me not you!Please understand it!
4-Hmmmmmmmm!...believing Jesus(Pbuh) as my prophet not my creator!!!(I cant get! how can a man in this huge universe be the creaotor of it!) I add that the soul of Jesus(Pbuh) and other prophets is from God but everthing that is borned or created cant be God!


But the Mobaheleh verse is the 61 verse of Ale-Omran(3)
never forget to read it!it has a sweety story!
God conduct anyone that belives God but has losen the way with ignorance
and God keep all his real believers safe
God bless all!
Mohammad

[Apple Pie]

Greetings Mohammad,

Thanks for giving more insight into your assertions; let’s see what you have…

1-the splitting moon is refered in :
Qamar(54) even if it refers to the Qiyamat

I have to ask; do even bother to study the mother-tongue of your “holy” book…?

First of all, this entire sura is no more than recycled Biblical material, (surprise, surprise).

Secondly, your “prophet” is nowhere mentioned in this sura at all. Period. End of story. Thus, to proclaim any “miracles” to him is complete and utter nonsense.

If you feel that this Sura is a miracle, then I suggest that you give glory to the God of the Holy Bible for allowing this Biblical material to reside in your Koran as well…

But I should add : is it importment that Quran refers to Mohammad (Pbuh) miracles?!
Quran is the book of guidence not events!

First off, there are no “miracles” in the Koran – unless, of course, you want to acknowledge the Biblical ones that the Koran has copied.

Secondly, the Koran is not a book of guidance.

It is a copy-cat translation from Biblical material.

The true original language of the Koran is Biblical Hebrew & Greek.

But also we have alot of Hadises(The speech of Imam or people that is about Mohammad (Pbuh) speech or events in his time)about this event that we cant deny it (Just please study more about it! )

And the second point (the tree that did the prophet orders) .Imam Ali (Pbuh) that is realy a big man(that we say he has a degree near Mohammad(Pbuh)) saw this event.(Just please please please! study more about it! and also Shia! )

----------------------------------------------------------
Imam Ali main life points:
1-was borned in the Kabeh!!!!!!!!!!!WOW!(Please study more about Shia! )
2-he was the first man that accepted Mohammad(Pbuh) and when??
When he was 10!!
3-After accepting Mohammad(Pbuh) he was nurtured by Mohammad(Pbuh)
that he says"there was not a night that Mohammad(Pbuh) didnt open to me big doors of wisdom!
4-he slept at the "Mabit" night in Mohammad(Pbuh) bed so he could stay alive!WOW!(God told Mohammad(Pbuh) that they want to kill you tonight so escape and I add Please study more about Shia! )
And lots more that I will write if you want!! remember if YOU WANT
---------------------------------------------------------------

I concentrate only on the Koran, in my Islamic research…after all, all true Muslims hold to this one book, do they not?

2-I havent heard about Joseph Smith’s .Please tell me his life.

His life parallels your “prophets” life in many uncanny ways. A simple web search will show you all that you need to know.

Smith, like the authors of the Koran, copied copious amounts of Biblical material as the basis for their opuses.

3-well let me repeat that this point refers to me not you!Please understand it!
4-Hmmmmmmmm!...believing Jesus(Pbuh) as my prophet not my creator!!!(I cant get! how can a man in this huge universe be the creaotor of it!) I add that the soul of Jesus(Pbuh) and other prophets is from God but everthing that is borned or created cant be God!

If you hold to this, then your Koran contradicts itself…

Is this what you want…?

But the Mobaheleh verse is the 61 verse of Ale-Omran(2)
never forget to read it!it has a sweety story!
God conduct anyone that belives God but has losen the way with ignorance
and God keep all his real believers safe
God bless all!
Mohammad

And….?





Thanks…

[yazdimuslim]

In the name of God
Thanks Apple pie
Well my duty to write more is decrising ! because your answering my questions and seeing my information in only opposite view!
Well I dont like that and I never do it so!
I strongly advice t you to study more about Mobahele verse
The story starts like this
Some of the Christians in Mohammad(Pbuh) time came to Suadia arabia to see what Mohammad(Pbuh) says and after a long discussion the denied him!
Mohammad(Pbuh) said to them come and bring your group and I will bring my group and want from God to destroy who is the lier!
Christian discuused and said if tomorrow Mohammad(Pbuh) comes with a huge group he is the loser but if he comed with some people know that you will be the losers and dont accept to do it.
The day after Mohammad(Pbuh) came with 4 people 1-Ali(Pbuh) 2-Zahra(Pbuh)(His daughter) 3-Hassan(Pbuh)(Ali child)(he was only a child!!!WOW!) 4-Hossein(Pbuh)(Ali child)(he was only a child!!!WOW!)
When the Christian saw that they denied to the "Doa"(want from God)
Mohammad(Pbuh) said that if they continued they would be in the big flames of fire!
This is real and all Christians believe it!....hmm...Study more and answer

At end I advice to you to study more about Shia!
I hope that God keeps anyone that moves in his way and anyone that he wants!....amin
Want from God to send down Jesus(Pbuh) because Shias are also waiting for him and Mahdi(The 12th Imam).
Take care
Mohammad

[Apple Pie]

Greetings Mohammad,

Thanks for your reply...

Well my duty to write more is decrising ! because your answering my questions and seeing my information in only opposite view!
Well I dont like that and I never do it so!

Again...this is a debate forum...if you are uncomfortable with opposing viewpoints (than yours), then perhaps you are not that confident in your faith...

Christianity is the only truth...

Take care...

[yazdimuslim]

In the name of God
Hello Apple pie
I had a good time discuusing with you but .....nothing!
I strongly thank you for not posting any answer about mobahele verse!!!!
Have a good time praying God
Bye
Mohammad

[Alpha]

Have a good time praying God

I can easily take this quote that you typed out of context. But then I will be like most of those who are ignorant of truth.

[Truth Seeker-Joshua]

mohammad did create a miracle.

Well, at least in the eyes of Micheal Jackson.

He married a 6 year old and got away with it.

Im sure the pop musician is trying to channel his spirit to ask, " hey Mo, howd ya do it and get away with it? what a miracle."

:lol:

[yazdimuslim]

Thanks for such answering!
you dont even know my real name,how can you explain my position!
God bless
Mohammad

[Questions]

That mohammed claimed to have a revelation that al-ilah was the true God yet investigate the name of Mohammed's father................see a certain word that comprises his name...............allah.


al ilah was the chief god of the quarash tribe and chief god of the Kabah...............also known as the moon god. 75% of the koran is made up of The Book of Enough, old and new testaments, gospel of barnabas and arabian myths and legends, nothing new in the koran apart from a creed which encourages its followers to kill unbelievers.............the most dangerous world view on the planet!!

[(Omega)]

My friend hear me out this once, Jesus came not for the righteous but for the sinners, neither did He come for the Healthy but for the Sick, who resides within your heart, is it Christ?

Be like unto Him, Jesus made His dwelling among sinners and was rejected by the Hypocritical Pharisees who believed that they were too righteous to be among the unbelievers. WWJD?

But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another. Galatians 5:15(KJV)

GOD BLESS!

[Abdurrahman]

In the name of Allah , most gracious most merciful

-I copied the start follow the link at the end please

The evidences of the prophethood of Muhammad (SAW) fall into two main categories:

The first is called irhasat and includes the paranormal events that happened at the time of his birth, or before his declaration of prophethood.

The second group pertains to all the remaining evidences of the prophethood, and contains two subdivisions:

1) Those wonders that were manifested after his departure from this world in order to confirm his prophethood, and
2) Those that he exhibited during the era of his prophethood. The latter has also two parts:
2.1) The evidences of his prophethood that became manifest in his own personality, his inner and outer being, his moral conduct and perfection, and
2.2) The miracles that: related to substantial matters. The last part again has two branches:
2.2.1) Those concerning the Qur'an and spirituality, and
2.2.2) Those relating to matter and creation. This last branch is again divided into two categories:
2.2.2.1) The first involves the paranormal happenings that occured during his mission either to break the stubbornness of the unbelievers, or to augment the faith of the belivers. This category has twenty different sorts, such as the splitting of the moon, the flowing of water from the fingers, the satisfying of large numbers with a little food, and the speaking of trees, rocks and animals. Each of these sorts has also many instances, and thus has, in meaning, the strength of confirmation by consensus.
2.2.2.2) As for the second category, this includes events lying in the future that occured as he had predicted upon Allah (SWT)'s instructions. Now starting from the last category, we will summarize a list of them


Please follow the link if you are interested in full detail
http://www.ayetulkubra.com/rnkdiller/en ... etters.htm

click 19. Letter

He always said the biggest miracle of islam is Quran itself.
It is a living miracle known day by day.

[mike england]

There is some truth in the Quran:

Jesus Claimed himself sinless which is also mentioned in the Qur’an as a holy/pure son.

Sura 19:19 He said: "Nay, I am only a messenger from thy Lord, (to announce) to thee the gift of a holy son.

[H2O]

Mike,

Do you know what the Arabic word that is used that expressed that ?

When the Holy Spirit is mentioned in the Quran is the word "Holy" equivalent to "Holy" in " a holy son" ?

In the Quran the Arabic for "Holy Spirit" is Roohul-Qudus.

Rooh = Spirit ......Qudus = holy

Now what does the Quran say in the Arabic as to the son of Mayam in 19:19 ?

"a holy son" is from the Arabic "ghulaaman zakeeyaa"

ghulaaman = a child, a boy........zakeeyaaa = purify, clean, holy

Two different words "Qudus vs Zakeeyaa" have absolutely two different significance from what English conveys.

The word Zakeeyaa is the same word in significance that we use for Zakaah which is the muslim's alms tax that we have to pay out of our wealth.

[mike england]

Sura 19:19 He said: "Nay, I am only a messenger from thy Lord, (to announce) to thee the gift of a holy son.

This quote from the quran clearly states that jesus is the holy son.
im convinced it doesnt mean prophet mohammed. as no way was he pure or especially holy.
as only jesus was pure and holy just like God.
In the Qur’an Muhammad claims only to be a messenger or warner to the people.

Sura 34:28 "And we have not sent you (O Mohammed) except as a giver of glad tidings and a Warner to all people."

Muhammad never claimed that through following him you would go to heaven, in fact when challenged he had this to say about himself not being saved.

Sura 46:9 Say: "I am not an innovation among the messengers, nor do I know what will be done with me or with you. I follow but that which is revealed to me by inspiration; I am but a Warner open and clear."

Muhammad refused to perform any miracles as he could not!

Sura 29:50 And they say, `Why are not Signs sent down to him from his Lord?' Say, `The Signs are with ALLAH, and I am but a plain warner,'

The Qur’an attests to Jesus being word of God, Kalmatullah and the Spirit of God i.e Ruhh Allah Sura 4:171

Muhammad offered no way to remove your sins, you eternal state hangs in the balance i.e you do not go to heaven at all as he made no such promises but simply said you might or might not.

Do you want to live your life on a might or might not?

It is Jesus Christ who was the final offering for sin on the cross which atones (covers) or removes our sins so that we can go to heaven without having to pay the penalty of sin which is eternal death i.e no heaven but straight to hell for an eternity.

Eternity is a long time to be wrong and there is no comeback so think carefully and choose what is right.


God bless
mike E

[Sevryn45]

The evidences of the prophethood of Muhammad (SAW) fall into two main categories:

There is no evidance of his prophethood because he was a false prophet PERIOD.

I am really sick and tiered of hearing the same weak arguments over and over again. Seriously you Muslims need to come up with new arguments, instead of going to Muslim apologetic sites and copy-pasting the same BS over and over.

Can't Muslims think for themselves? So far I am getting the feeling that objective logical thinking is not a part of Muslims vocab.

[Abdurrahman]

In the name of Allah , the most gracious most merciful

This is only part of it take the link

http://www.risale-inur.com.tr/rnk/eng/l ... etter.html


[Miracles related to the healing of the ill].

Another kind of miracle of Muhammad (ASW), a mutawatir one with various examples, is the healing of ill and wounded people by his auspicious breath. This kind of miracle of the Prophet (ASW) is, as a whole, mutawatir in meaning. Certain single events of this kind are also regarded as mutawatir in meaning; as for the rest, although they are separate incidents, they have been amended and related by discerning leaders of the science of prophetic narration. Out of many, we will mention here only a few examples of this kind.

FIRST EXAMPLE:As reported in Shifa ash-Sharif of Qadi lyad (RA) by numerous channels and with an exalted chain of transmitters from Sa'd b. Abi Waqqas (RA, one of the ten Companions given the glad tidings of Paradise, a servant and a military commander of the Prophet (ASW), the commander-in-chief of the Muslim army during the reing of Umar (RA), and the conqueror of Iran): "I was beside Allah's Messenger in the battle of Uhud. He shot arrows until his bow was broken. Then he began giving his arrows to me. Each time he gave me a featherless arrow, he ordered me to shoot it, which I did, and it flew just like one with feathers, piercing an unbeliever's body. In the course of this, Qatada b. an-Nu'man was hit by an arrow, and one of his eyeballs poked. Allah's Messenger, with his auspicious blessed hand, placed the eyeball back in its socket. The eye healed at once, as if nothing had happened to it, and became even better than the other one. " This incident became so famous that when one of the grandsons of Qatada came to Umar b. Abdul-Aziz (RA), he presented himself with the following words in poetic form: "I am the son of that person whose poked eyeball was placed in its socket by the Messenger of Allah and became the best eye. " This is also reported through an authentic narration: In the battle of Yawm az-Ziqarad, Abu Qatada (RA) was hit in the face with an arrow. Allah's Messenger (ASW) wiped his face with his auspicious hand. Abu Qatada says, "I never felt the pain, nor did the wound fester. "

SECOND EXAMPLE: Reported in accurate books, above all Bukhari and Muslim: Allah's Messenger (ASW) had appointed Ali (RA) b. Abi Talib as the flag-holder at the battle of Khaybar, but Ali (RA) had been suffering severely from sore eyes. Allah's Messenger (ASW) applied his healing saliva to his eyes, and at the same moment, the pain ceased and his eyes became much better. The following morning, Ali (RA) conquered Khaybar using the very heavy iron gate of the citadel that he had torn away as a shield. In the same battle, Salama b. al-Aqwa (RA) had his leg cut by a sword, and Allah's Messenger (ASW) healed it by breathing on him.

THIRD EXAMPLE: Authorities on the Prophet's biography, above all, Nasa'i, report from Uthman b. Hunayf (RA): "A blind man came to the Messenger of Allah and said, 'Pray for my eyes to open. ' Allah's Messenger said, 'Go, make ablution, and then pray two rek'ats, and say, [O Allah, I ask Thee, while turning toward Thee, for the sake of the Prophet Muhammad, the Prophet of Mercy. O Muhammad, I turn toward your Lord, for your sake and through you, asking that He (Allah swt) uncover my sight. O Allah, make him my intercessor.] ' He departed to do what he had been told. When he came back, his eyes had already been opened. "

FOURTH EXAMPLE: Ibn Wahab (RA), one of the great imams, reports: When Mu'awwidh b. Afra' (RA), one of the fourteen martyrs of the battle of Badr, was fighting with Abu Jahl. The accursed Abu Jahl cut off one of his hands. Mu'awwidh took his cut-hand in the other and came to Allah's Messenger (ASW), who stuck it to his wrist, applied his blessed saliva to it and healed it. He then turned back to battle and fought until he was martyred. Also reported by Imam Jalil b. Wahab: In the same battle, Hubayb b. Yasaf (RA) received such a sword blow on the shoulder that it seemed as if his shoulder had been divided into two. Allah's Messenger (ASW) stuck his arm to his shoulder, breathed on him, and the wound healed. Although these two incidents are separate and individually reported, they can be regarded as having definetely occurred because they have been amended by such an imam like Ibn Wahab (RA), and taken place in a battle that itself was a spring of wonders.




Miracles about food

FIRST EXAMPLE of miracles concerning the Prophet's (ASW) inducing the increase of food through his blessing: The six accurate books of tradition, Bukhari and Muslim included, unanimously relate that during the feast on the occasion of the Prophet's marriage to Zaynab, Anas's mother, Umm Sulaym, prepared a dish by frying two handfuls of dates and sent it with Anas (RAE) to the Prophet. Allah's Messenger (ASW) told him, "Go and invite so and so [naming some persons], and also invite whoever you encounter on your way." Anas invited those named and those he met. About three hundred Companions came and filled the Prophet's (ASW) room and the anteroom. Then the Prophet (ASW) said, "Make circles of ten." He placed his blessed hand on that little amount of food, uttered supplications, and told them to start eating. All of them ate, being fully satisfied. Afterwards the Prophet (ASW) asked Anas to remove the food. Anas (RA) later related, "I could not tell if there was more of it when I set it down, or when I removed it."

SECOND EXAMPLE: Abu Ayyub al-Ansari (RA), the host of the Prophet (ASW), relates that when Allah's Messenger honored his home, he had made a meal for two, which would suffice the Prophet (ASW) and Abu Bakr (RA). But the Prophet (ASW) told him, "Invite thirty men from among the distinguished ones of the Ansar." Abu Ayyub (RA) says: "Thirty men came and ate. He then said, 'Invite sixty men,' which I did, and they also came and ate. The Prophet (ASW) said again, 'Invite seventy more.' I invited them; they came, and when they finished eating, there was still food left in the bowls. All who came embraced Islam, and took the oath of allegiance after witnessing that miracle. There were one hundred and eighty men who ate that food which was enough for two."

THIRD EXAMPLE: It is reported by various channels from Umar b. Khattab, Abu Hurayra, Salama b. Aqwa, Abu Amrat al-Ansari and others (RAE) that during a battle, they referred themselves to Allah's Messenger (ASW). He told them, "Gather whatever food is left in your bags." Everyone brought a few dates and put them on a mat. The largest amount anyone could contribute was four handfuls. Salama related, "I estimated the amount of the whole thing as the size of a goat lying down." Then Allah's Messenger announced, "Everyone may bring his dish." They rushed forward, and no one in the whole army remained with an empty dish. After all the dishes had been filled, there was even some left over. One of the Companions later said, "I realized from the way that that abundance was obtained that if the whole world had come , the food would have sufficed them all."

FOURTH EXAMPLE: As recorded in all the Six Books including Bukhari and Muslim, Abdurrahman b. Abu Bakr Siddiq (RA) relates: "We, one hundred and thirty Companions, were with the Allah's Messenger on an expedition. Dough was prepared for the amount of about four handful, a goat was slaughtered and cooked, and its liver and kidneys were roasted. I swear by Allah that from that roasted meat [liver and kidneys] the Prophet gave a small piece to each and put the cooked meat into two large bowls. After we had all eaten until we were satisfied, there was still some left over, which I loaded onto a camel."

FIFTH EXAMPLE: As is recorded in the Six Books, Jabir al-Ansari (RA) related under an oath: "During the battle of Ahzab on the celebrated day of Khandaq, about a thousand people ate from four handfuls of rye bread and a young cooked goat; yet food was still left over. The food had been cooked in my dwelling, and after the one thousand people had left, the pot was still boiling with meat in it, and bread was being made from the dough; for the Prophet had wetted that dough and that pot with his blessed mouth, supplicating for abundance." Since this miracle of abundance was announced by Jabir with an oath while those thousand men (RAE) were present, it can be regarded as having been related by one thousand men.

SIXTH EXAMPLE: According to an authentic narration from Abu Talha (RA), the uncle of Anas who served the Prophet (ASW), the Prophet fed seventy to eighty men with a small amount of rye bread that Anas had brought under his arm. The Prophet (ASW) ordered, "Break the bread into small pieces," and prayed for abundance. Because there was not enough room for all people, only ten ate at a time, leaving all full and satisfied.

SEVENTH EXAMPLE: It is related as authentic in accurate books such as Shifa ash-Sharif and Muslim that Jabir al-Ansari (RA) narrates: "Once a man asked Allah's Messenger for food for his household. Allah's Messenger gave him a half load of barley. For a long time he and his family ate from it. When they noticed that it was not being exhausted, they measured it to see by what amount it had been reduced. After that, the blessing of abundance was gone, and the barley began to dwindle rapidly. Then the man came back to Allah's Messenger and related what happened. Allah's Messenger replied, "If you had not measured it, it would have sufficed you for a lifetime." "

EIGHT EXAMPLE: According to accurate books such as Tirmidhi, Nasa'i, Bayhaqi and Shifa ash-Sharif, Samura b. Jundub (RA) relates that a bowl of meat was brought to Allah's Messenger (ASW). From morning to evening, many groups of men came and ate from it. Considering the explanation that we cited in the introduction to this section, this is not the narration of Samura alone, since Samura narrated this incident on behalf, and with the approval of, all those present.

NINTH EXAMPLE: It is also related by highly trusted and reliable researchers such as the author of Shifa ash-Sharif, Ibn Abi Shayba and Tabarani, that Allah's Messenger (ASW) ordered Abu Hurayra (RA), "Invite those poor Muhajirin who are using the hall of the Masjid as their home." They were, in fact, more than a hundred. Abu Hurayra searched and summoned them all. A plate full of food was placed in front of them, so that they ate as much as they wished. As they rose, the plate was as full as it had been when first placed before them. The fingermarks on the food were the only signs of their eating. This incident is related by Abu Hurayra not on his own, but in the name of the People of the Suffa and relying on their approval. Hence, the incident is as definite as if all the People of the Suffa had related it. Otherwise, is it ever possible that those men of truth and perfection would have remained silent and not contradicted it, had the narration been untrue?

TENTH EXAMPLE: According to an authentic narration by Ali (KAW), Allah's Messenger (ASW) once gathered the Bani Abdulmuttalib. They were about fourty, including some who would eat a young camel and drink a gallon of milk in one meal. Yet for them he had prepared only a handful of food. All ate and were satisfied, and the food remained just as it had been before. Later he brought milk in a wooden cup that would have been sufficient for only three or four persons. They all drank and were full. Here is a miracle of abundance as definite as the valor and loyalty of Ali (KAW)!

ELEVENTH EXAMPLE: According to an authentic narration, on the occasion of the marriage of Ali (KAW) to Fatima az-Zahra (RA), Allah's Messenger (ASW) ordered Bilal (RA), "Have bread made from a few handfuls of flour; also slaughter a young camel." Bilal relates: "I brought the food, and he put his hand over it for blessing. Later the Companions arrived in groups, ate, and left. From the remaining food, he sent a full bowl to each of his wives, saying that they should eat and feed from it whoever is nearby." Such a blessed abundance was indeed necessary for such a blessed marriage!

TWELFTH EXAMPLE: Imam Ja'far as-Sadiq (RA) from his father Muhammed al-Baqir (RA), from his father Zayn al-Abidin (RA), from Ali (KAW) related that Fatima az-Zahra (RA) prepared some food that would be enough only for herself and Ali (KAW). She then sent Ali (KAW) to invite Allah's Messenger (ASW) to come and eat with them. Allah's Messenger (ASW) came, told them to send a dish of food to each of his wives, and then remaining food was spared for himself, Ali, Fatima and their children. Fatima (RA) says, "When we took away the pot, it was still full to the brim. By Allah's will, we ate from it for quite a long time." Why do you [the denier] not believe this miracle of abundance just as if you had witnessed it with your own eyes, since it comes through such a luminous and glorious line of narrators? Certainly, even Satan cannot dispute against this !

THIRTEENTH EXAMPLE: Veracious authorities, such as Abu Dawud, Ahmad b. Hanbal and Bayhaqi, narrated from Jarir, from Dukayn al-Ahmas b. Sa'id al-Muzayn, from Jarir and from Nu'man b. Muqarrin al-Ahmasi al-Muzayn, who, with six brothers, (RAE) was honored with being a Companion of the Prophet (ASW), the following incident that was originally related by Umar b. Khattab (RA) and transmitted by various channels: Allah's Messenger (ASW) once ordered Umar, "Give food and grain to the four hundred horsemen of the Ahmasi tribe for their journey." Umar (RA) replied, "O Messenger of Allah, all the provision put together is not more than the size of a young camel sitting down." The Prophet (ASW) said, "Give it to them." Out of a half load of dates, Umar gave them an amount enough for four hundred men. After he had given that amount to them, as he later related, everything was the same as before, without any decrease. This miracle of abundance took place in relation to four hundred men, especially to Umar (RA); these are the people supporting the narration, and their silence is but a confirmation of the report. Do not ignore these narrations because they are related by a few individuals only, for the conditions under which the incident took place provide it with the certainty of 'tawatur in meaning', even if it is reported by a single individual.

FOURTEENTH EXAMPLE: All the accurate books of tradition, Bukhari and Muslim included, narrate that Jabir's father died when he was heavily in debt to Jews. Jabir (RA) gave all his father's possessions to the creditors, but they did not accept them. The fruits that his orchard yielded were also not sufficient to defray his debt for many years. Allah's Messenger (ASW) said, "Pick all the fruits in the orchard and heap them up." So they did. Allah's Messenger (ASW) walked about the pile of fruit and prayed, and then Jabir gave from the fruits the amount corresponding for his father's debt. What was left was as much as the annual yield of the orchard (according to another narration, it was equal to the amount he gave to the creditors). This astounded the creditor Jews greatly. Again, this manifest miracle of abundance is not the kind of information given by only Jabir (RA) and a few more narrators; its certainty is equivalent to that of 'tawatur in meaning', as it was related on behalf of many.

FIFTEENTH EXAMPLE: Various discerning researchers such as Tirmidhi and Bayhaqi transmitted through an authentic narration from Abu Hurayra (RA) that in a battle (the battle of Tabuk, according to another narration) the army ran out of food. Allah's Messenger (ASW) asked, "Is there anything at all ?" Abu Hurayra (RA) relates: "I said I had a few dates left in my bag [in one narration there were fifteen]. The Prophet told me to bring them, which I did, and he put his blessed hand in the bag, took out a handful of dates, and uttered prayers as he put them onto a plate. Then he called the men in groups of ten. After they had all eaten, he said, 'Eat what you brought, hold it, and do not turn it upside down.' I put my hand in the bag; there were in my hands as many dates as I had brought. Later, during the time of the Prophet (ASW), and also the time of Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman (RAE), I ate from those dates." According to another narration, Abu Hurayra (RA) said, "I gave many loads of it for Allah's sake. Then, when Uthman (RA) was assassinated, the dates were plundered together with the container." Abu Hurayra (RA) was a constant and very important student and disciple at the Suffa -the school of the Teacher of the universe and the Pride of creation- in addition the Prophet (ASW) had prayed for the strength of his memory. The miracle of abundance that he related to have taken place in the battle of Tabuk, in the presence of a large number of people, should therefore be as sound and certain as the word of the whole army.

Some useful information from Narrators: Ansar: those of the Companions who hosted the migrants from Mecca in their homes in Medina. Muhajirin: those among the Companions who migrated together with the Prophet leaving their homes in Mecca, and settled in Medina. The people of the Suffa: those among the Muhajirin as described in the words of the Prophet cited above, who were using the hall of the Masjid (called suffa), who devoted their lives to the preservation and dissemination of the prophetic narrations, and whose livelihood was provided by the Prophet (ASW). They were so much occupied with their service that they would not even get married, and those who became married and thus left the group would immediately be replaced by other Companions.

SIXTEENTH EXAMPLE: Bukhari included, accurate books relate, through an authentic narration, that once Abu Hurayra (RA) was hungry, so he followed Allah's Messenger (ASW) into his home. There they saw that a cup of milk had been brought as a gift. The Prophet ASM said to him, "Call all the People of the Suffa." Abu Hurayra relates: "I said to myself, 'I could drink that whole container of milk myself !,' as I was most in need of it. But since it was the order of the Prophet, I fetched the People of the Suffa, who were more than a hundred. The Prophet told me to offer the milk to them. I gave the cup to each, one by one, and each drank until satisfied. At the end, the Prophet told me, 'The rest is for me and you.' As I drank, the Prophet kept telling me to drink more, until I said,' I swear by the Glorious One Who has sent you with the truth that I am too full to drink any more.' Then the Prophet drank the rest, invoking the name of Allah and thanking Him." Let it be blessed for him a hundred thousand times ! This manifest miracle of abundance, as pure, indubitable and sweet as milk itself, is related by all the six accurate books of tradition, above all by Imam Bukhari, who committed to memory five hundred thousand narrations. Moreover, it is narrated by a celebrated, loyal and brilliant student of the Prophet's (ASW) blessed school of Suffa , namely Abu Hurayra who also cited as witnesses -indeed represented- all the other students of Suffa (RAE). Therefore, for not regarding such a report as having the certainty of tawatur, either one's heart should be rotten, or one's brain be destroyed! Is it at all possible that such a truthful person as Abu Hurayra (RA), who devoted all his life to the narrations of the Prophet (ASW) and to the religion, and who heard and himself transmitted the prophetic narration; "Whoever knowingly tells a lie concerning me should prepare for his seat in hellfire," should have related an unfounded incident ? Or would not any error in his saying be rejected by the People of Suffa, and harm the accuracy of all the other traditions he had memorized? Allah forbid! O Allah (SWT): for the sake of blessings You have bestowed upon Your Most Noble Messenger, bestow the blessings of abundance upon the favors and nourishments with which You have provided us!

Miracles about water

FIRST EXAMPLE: Accurate books of tradition, in particular Bukhari and Muslim, report through an authentic narration from Anas: "About three hundred of us were together with Allah's Messenger in the place named Zawra'. He ordered us to perform ablution for the afternoon prayer, but we could not find water. He then told us to bring a little water, which we did, and he dipped his auspicious hands into it. I saw water running from his fingers like a fountain. His three hundred men performed ablution with that water and drank from it." Anas relates this incident in the name of three hundred men. Is it possible that those three hundred people should not have confirmed him, or that none of them should have repudiated him if they had not agreed with him?

SECOND EXAMPLE: As narrated in accurate books, in particular Bukhari and Muslim, Jabir b. Abdullah al-Ansari says: "We, fifteen hundred people, had become thirsty during the battle of Hudaibiya. Allah's Messenger performed ablution from a leather water bag called qirba and then dipped his hand into it. I saw that water was running out of the bag like a fountain. Fifteen hundred people drank from it and filled their water bags." Once Salim b. Abil-ja'd asked Jabir, "How many of you were there." He said, 'Water would have sufficed even if there had been a hundred thousand, but we were fifteen hundred." Since this decisive miracle was witnessed by fifteen hundred Companions of the Prophet, its informants in effect number fifteen hundred, for human nature has a tendency to reject lies. As for the Companions (RAE) of the Prophet (ASW), who sacrificed their tribes and persons, their fathers and mothers, their lives and all that they possessed for the sake of truth and veracity, they could not have remained silent in the face of a lie, especially in the light of the warning given by the narration, "Whoever knowingly tells a lie concerning me should prepare for his seat in hellfire." Since they remained silent concerning this report they accepted it, joined Jabir, and confirmed his words.

THIRD EXAMPLE: As related in the accurate books of narration, including Bukhari and Muslim, Jabir reported: "During the battle of Buwat, Allah's Messenger commanded, 'Call for ablution.' They said there was no water. He said, 'Then try to find a little.' We fetched a very small amount of water. He kept his hand over the surface of the water while reciting something that I could not hear, and then commanded, 'Bring the big trough of the caravan.' They brought it to me, and I placed it in front of Allah's Messenger. He put his hands in the trough and opened his fingers, while I poured that very small amount of water onto his auspicious hands, I saw that abundant water ran from his blessed fingers and filled the trough. Then I summoned those who needed water. When they had all performed ablution with that water and drunk from it, I told Allah's Messenger that there was no one else. He lifted his hands, leaving the trough full to the brim This miracle of the Prophet has the certainty of tawatur in meaning, because Jabir (RA) announces it on behalf of the others. As he occupied the first place in the incident in serving the Prophet, it was his right to speak first. However, at the same time Ibn Mas'ud says, "I saw that water was running like a fountain from the fingers of the Prophet." If a truthful and well-known group of the Companions of the Prophet including Anas, Jabir and Ibn Mas'ud says, "We have seen," is it possible that they might not have seen? When these three reports are joined together, they prove the incidence of the running of water from the fingers of the Prophet (ASW) to be explicit tawatur. Put these three examples together and see how sound and definite a miracle this is. Indeed, even Moses' (AS) making water run from twelve different points of a stone cannot be equivalent to water's running from the ten fingers of Muhammad (ASW), for water might gush out of a stone -since examples of this can be found among ordinary events- but there is no parallel for water running in abundance from flesh and bone !

[Miracles Related to Trees]:

One of the various kinds of miracles of Allah's Messenger (ASW) is that trees, like human beings, obeyed his orders and came near him. This miracle is also mutawatir in meaning, like that of water running from his fingers; there are numerous examples of it, and it has been reported in various channels. In fact, trees leaving their places and coming toward him can be considered explicit tawatur, because the best-known men among the Companions of the Prophet such as Ali, Ibn Abbas, Ibn Mas'ud, Ibn Umar, Ya'la b. Murra, Jabir, Anas b. Malik, Burayda, Usama b. Zayd and Ghaylan b. Salama (RAE) reported the same miracle with certainty. Hundreds of scholars among the generation that followed the Companions received their reports from each of them, each with a different channel, and transmitted them to us in the shape of multiple tawatur. This miracle has therefore, decisively and indisputably, the certainty of tawatur in meaning. We will now cite only a few examples of this great miracle, although it was repeated many times.

FIRST EXAMPLE: Narrated by Ibn Maja, adDarimi and Bayhaqi from Anas b. Malik and Ali, and by Bazzaz and Bayhaqi from Umar: The Messenger of Allah was disturbed at the denial of unbelievers. He prayed, "O Lord! Give me a sign, so that I will no longer see anyone who contradicts me." According to Anas, Gabriel was also present, upon whose instruction Allah's Messenger called to a tree that was at the side of the valley. It came near to him. He then told the tree to go back; it went back and settled down in its place.

SECOND EXAMPLE: In Shifa ash-Sharif, Qadi lyad, the foremost scholar of the Maghrib, relates from Abdullah b. Umar through an exalted and sound chain of narrators: "In the course of an expedition, a Beduin came to Allah's Messenger. The Messenger asked him, 'Where are you going?' He said, 'To my family.' Allah's Messenger asked, 'Don't you want something better than that?' The Beduin said, 'What is it?' Allah's Messenger replied, 'To bear witness that there is no god but Allah alone, with no partner, and that Muhammad is His servant and messenger.' The Beduin asked again, 'Who is your witness to your testimony?' The Messenger said, 'This tree beside the valley will bear witness.' " Ibn Umar says, "The tree cleft the earth shaking and came near to Allah's Messenger. He asked the tree three times to testify; each time it testified to his truthfulness. When Allah's Messenger ordered, it went back and settled down in its place." According to the authentic narration of Ibn Sahib al-Aslami, Burayda reports: "When we were together with Allah's Messenger on an expedition, a Beduin came and asked for a miracle. Allah's Messenger said, 'Tell that tree that Allah's Messenger summons her.' Then, when the Prophet pointed at a tree, it swayed and brought itself out with its roots, came to the presence of the Prophet saying, 'Peace be on you, O Messenger of Allah !' The Beduin said, 'Now let it go to its place again.' He commanded and it went. Then the Bediun said 'Allow me to prostrate myself before you.' The Messenger replied, 'No one is permitted to do that.' The Bediun said, 'Then I will kiss your hands and feet.' That the Prophet permitted."

THIRD EXAMPLE: Accurate books of narration, including Muslim, report from Jabir: 'We were together with the Messenger of Allah on an expedition when he searched for a place to answer the call of nature, but there was not a single hidden place. He then went to two trees, pulled one of them holding its branches, brought it near to the other. The tree was like an obedient camel being pulled by its halter. He addressed them, 'Join together over me with the permission of Allah.' The two trees joined together and formed a screen. After relieving himself behind them, he ordered them to go back, and they went back to their places." According to another narration Jabir says, 'The Messenger commanded me, 'Tell those trees to join together for the relief of Allah's Messenger.' I told them to do so, and they did. A little later Allah's Messenger came when I was waiting for him. He nodded to the right and to the left, and the two trees went back to their places.

[Miracles Concerning Rocks]:

As the Tenth Sign explained miracles of the Prophet (ASW) related to trees, this Eleventh Sign will describe how solid objects, rocks, and mountains also were subject to prophetic miracles. Here we cite a few out of numerous instances.

FIRST EXAMPLE: Qadi lyad (RA) in his Shifa ash-Sharif, with a celebrated chain of narrators, and great imams like Bukhari report through an authentic narration from Ibn Mas'ud, the servant of the Prophet (ASW), "We could hear food glorifying Allah as we ate with the Messenger."

SECOND EXAMPLE: Accurate books of narration report from Anas (RA) through an authentic narration: "We were next to the Messenger when he took small stones in his palm and they began to praise Allah. He put them in Abu Bakr's palm; they continued reciting." Abu Dharr al-Ghifari says, "He then put them in Umar's hand; they continued. He put them on the ground; they stopped. He again took them and put them in Uthman's palm, and they started." Anas and Abu Dharr (RAE) say, "He put them in our hands, and they stopped."

THIRD EXAMPLE: Reported through authentic narrations from Ali, Jabir, and Aisha as-Siddiqa (RAE): "Rocks and mountains would say to Allah's Messenger, 'Peace be on you, O Messenger of Allah!'" Ali (KAW) says, "Whenever we went for a walk in the early times of his prophethood, trees and rocks would say, "'Peace be onto you, O Messenger of Allah!' as they appeared in front of us." Jabir says, "When Allah's Messenger met with trees and rocks, they would prostrate themselves, and say, 'Peace be on you, O Messenger of Allah!'" According to another report from Jabir, Allah's Messenger said, "I know a rock that offers me greeting." Some said that the sacred black stone in Ka'ba was meant by these words of the Prophet (ASW). According to a narration transmitted on the authority of Aisha (RA), the Messenger of Allah (ASW) said, "Since Gabriel brought me the message, it began to happen that I would never pass by a rock or a tree without it saying,'Peace be upon you, 0 Messenger of Allah!'"

FOURTH EXAMPLE: Reported through an authentic narration from Abbas (RA): Allah's Messenger covered Abbas and his four sons (Abdullah, Ubaydullah, Fadl and Qusam) with a piece of cloth named mula'at, praying, "O my Lord, this is my uncle; protect through me these, his sons and veil them from the fire as I veil them with this cloth." The roof, the door, and the walls of the house joined this prayer at once, saying, "Amen, amen!"

[mike england]

Dear Abdurrahman
please do not spam you are taking up bandwidth, you should keep your opinions to yourself. and i call upon a moderator
thanks
mike E

[H2O]

Sura 19:19 He said: "Nay, I am only a messenger from thy Lord, (to announce) to thee the gift of a holy son.

This quote from the quran clearly states that jesus is the holy son

You didnt answer our question.

When the Holy Spirit is mentioned in the Quran is the word "Holy" equivalent to "Holy" in " a holy son" ?

In which we went into the Arabic that showed two different words all together.

In the Quran the Arabic for "Holy Spirit" is Roohul-Qudus.

Rooh = Spirit ......Qudus = holy

Now what does the Quran say in the Arabic as to the son of Mayam in 19:19 ?

"a holy son" is from the Arabic "ghulaaman zakeeyaa"

ghulaaman = a child, a boy........zakeeyaaa = purify, clean, holy

You can run up and down as much as you like boasting how the Quran says this and that, but in fact the Quran in its original language does not imply any sense of the english general term word "holy" that you are fathomed about.

Sura 34:28 "And we have not sent you (O Mohammed) except as a giver of glad tidings and a Warner to all people."

Muhammad never claimed that through following him you would go to heaven, in fact when challenged he had this to say about himself not being saved

.

We would like for you to stick to the topic which is about Jesus the son of Maryam being called "a holy son" in the Quran.

The Qur’an attests to Jesus being word of God, Kalmatullah and the Spirit of God i.e Ruhh Allah Sura 4:171

Kalimatullaah in the Arabic means Allah's word or a word of Allah. You should read the Quran for your self to see what it means by such thing rather than dictating our religion in Christian ideological prestige. We understand our book as a whole and not by parts as you do your Bible.

Verily, the similitude of Jesus before Allah is just as the similitude of Adam. He created him (Adam) from dust and then He said to it, "Be ! " then he became 3:59

And in another Surah (Chapter) that outlines the advent of the maraculous birth says :

When the angles said: "O Maryam ! Verily Allah anounces glade tidings to you of a Word (kalimat) from Him. His name will be The Messiah Son of Maryam held in honor in this life and the hereafter whom will be of those closest to Allah.

and he will speak to the people in childhood and adulthood and will be of the righteous,

She said : My Lord how will it be that I have a son when I have not been touched by a man ? He said : " Likewise Allah creates what he wills, when He determines a command He only says to it "BE !" and then it becomes 3:45-47

And in the same Surah you quoted says:

He (The Angel) said: Your Lord said: "Likewise it is easy for Me": and we will appoint him as a Sign to the people and as a Mercy from Us, and it is a command determined." 19:21

Jesus is Allah's word "BE" which was a determined command that created Jesus ie brought him into existence in the womb of his mother. This same command "BE" was brought Adam into existence. Both Jesus and Adam in the Quran are bother Allah's word.

Muhammad offered no way to remove your sins, you eternal state hangs in the balance i.e you do not go to heaven at all as he made no such promises but simply said you might or might not.

Rubbish ! This is what Allah revealed to Muhammad (s.a.w.) in the Quran.

When My servants ask you (Muhammad) concerning Me, I am indeed close (to them): I listen to the prayer of every suppliant when he calleth on Me: let them also, with a will, listen to My call, and believe in Me: that they may walk in the right way 2:186

Say: "If ye do love Allah, follow me: Allah will love you and forgive you your sins; for Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful." 3:31

To Allah belongeth all that is in the heavens and on earth, He forgiveth whom He pleaseth and punisheth whom He pleaseth; but Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. 3:129

And those who, having done something to be ashamed of, or wronged their own souls, earnestly bring Allah to mind, and ask for forgiveness for their sins; and who can forgive sins except Allah? And are never obstinate in persisting knowingly in (the wrong) they have done. 3:135

"Our Lord! we have heard the call of one calling (us) to Faith, `Believe ye in the Lord', and we have believed. Our Lord! forgive us our sins, blot out from us our iniquities, and take to Thyself our souls in the company of the righteous. 3:193

And there are many more verses. We merely have to ask Allah for forgiveness with honestly and shun and abstain from whatever sin it may be. There is no mediator between us our Creator who is always near and listening to us and knows our every thought, intention and action. When He has determined to forgive a servant who repents he merely says "BE" and we are forgiven.

Do you want to live your life on a might or might not?

There is no might or doubt in Islam when it come to faith

It is Jesus Christ who was the final offering for sin on the cross which atones (covers) or removes our sins so that we can go to heaven without having to pay the penalty of sin which is eternal death i.e no heaven but straight to hell for an eternity.

Here is what our book says:

And in their disbelief they utter against Maryam a graet fals charge and they say " Verily we killed the Messiah Jesus Son of Maryam Allah's Messenger " but they killed him not nor crucified him however it appeared to them so, and verily those who differ about it were indeed in of it and they had no knowledge of it except they followed conjecture and of a surety they killed him not; Rather Allah raised him up to himself, and Allah is All Might and All Wise. 4:157,156

[mike england]

Dear H20 you speak of the holy spirit, i myself have been filled and overwhelmed on a few occasions with Gods holy spirit and have in deed been saved, born again and know this is indeed the LIVING SOVERIGN GOD who is eternal who saved me.
(john 3:3)
In reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no-one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again"
(john 3:5) Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no-one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the spirit.
(john 3:6)
Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the spirit gives birth to spirit.
7) you should not be surprised at my saying, You must be born again.

I have been saved born again.
Jesus died for our sins, so we can get to go to heaven, Jesus is pure and free from sin, He is indeed God who saved me, and gave me the gift of eternal life.
i know this is the truth as i have felt Gods presence as the father son and holy spirit 1 God with 3 personalities.
i have experienced this and how wonderful Gods holy spirit is, and am a witness to this, when you experience it for real like i have i dont want belief and the word of the Quran. Show me evidence of muslims who have been saved?? and felt Gods holy spirit?? i dont want belief i want fact. and witnesses.
thank-you
mike E

[H2O]

And what does that have to do with the topic as to what is meant in the Quran of Jesus being mentioned as "a holy son"

[H2O]

And what does that have to do with the topic as to what is meant in the Quran of Jesus being mentioned as "a holy son"