PROPHECIES NOT FULFILLED (Part One)

[oneGOD]

Salam,

Here and in posts with similar Title I will show tha all the prophecies concerning Jesus in the bible. If you want to answer my post, you will need to refer to the same thing I'm talking about not quoting something else please

ISIAI 53:

"1
Who has believed our message and to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed?
2
He grew up before him like a tender shoot, and like a root out of dry ground. He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him, nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.
3
He was despised and rejected by men, a man of sorrows, and familiar with suffering. Like one from whom men hide their faces he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
4
Surely he took up our infirmities and carried our sorrows, yet we considered him stricken by God, smitten by him, and afflicted.
5
But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed.
6
We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all.
7
He was oppressed and afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth; he was led like a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is silent, so he did not open his mouth.
8
By oppression and judgment he was taken away. And who can speak of his descendants? For he was cut off from the land of the living; for the transgression of my people he was stricken.
9
He was assigned a grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death though he had done no violence, nor was any deceit in his mouth.

10
Yet it was the LORD's will to crush him and cause him to suffer, and though the LORD makes his life a guilt offering, he will see his offspring and prolong his days, and the will of the LORD will prosper in his hand.
11
After the suffering of his soul, he will see the light and be satisfied; by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many, and he will bear their iniquities.
12
Therefore I will give him a portion among the great, and he will divide the spoils with the strong, because he poured out his life unto death and was numbered with the transgressors. For he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
"

Now let's go over some verses :
9

He was assigned a grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death though he had done no violence, nor was any deceit in his mouth.

The word death does not exist in the proper translation.

The proper translation goes like this :
And it appointeth with the wicked his grave, And with the rich [are] his high places

Verify: http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bibl ... ge=english

12
Therefore I will give him a portion among the great, and he will divide the spoils with the strong, because he poured out his life unto death

The Proper translation is :
Because that he exposed to death his soul

Look at the verse :

After the suffering of his soul, he will see the light and be satisfied

The idea of this servant who will get pierced is NOT that he will DIE for people's sins. Look at verse 9

He was assigned a grave with the wicked

which means that he will have a grave assigned to his name, but it doesn't necessarily mean that his dead body will be in it.

The NT refutes the piercing theory :

John 19:"36 These things happened so that the scripture would be fulfilled: "Not one of his bones will be broken,"

As you might know, the crucifixion back then was done by nailing to the cross the hands and the ankles or the feet. If GOD Almighty was going to protect Jesus' body that not even a single bone will be broken, then how would the crucifixion and the death of Jesus be possible then?!

Given the facts above about the large amount of bones the human body has (27 in the hand alone), it is virtually impossible to drive nails in the hands and feet and not break a single bone from the 300+ bones the body has! Also, it is vitually impossible for Jesus to have his arms spread out on the cross, and later have his dead body's weight being pulled by gravity and not break a single bone from the upper part of the body!

Although ISIAIH never mentions the resurrection, it is worthy to mention that the whole Old Testament never mentions any kind of resurrection.

read ISIAIH 52:14:"Just as there were many who were appalled at him - his appearance was so disfigured beyond that of any man and his form marred beyond human likeness"

According to what we have in the New Testament, Jesus was never "disfigured.....beyond human likeness"! Jesus in the New Testament of today was NEVER DISFIGURED! And certainly, the crucifixion does not cause for the person, NOR DID IT CAUSE FOR JESUS IN THE NEW TESTAMENT, to be disfigured beyond any human recognition!

The bones thing is fairly enough but,

In Isaiah 53, all it says is that he will get pierced which again it never mentioned the cross nor did it ever mention any sort of resurrection, not just in this chapter, but also throughout the Old Testament. If this servant is indeed Jesus peace be upon him, then him being pierced and never dying seems to perfectly support the Islamic teaching about Prophet Jesus peace be upon him NEVER died on the cross for anyone's sins.

Also notice that Isaiah 53:11 clearly states that "he will see the light". What is that light? Could it be the light of Heaven? Probably be raised to Heaven? Christians do believe that Jesus peace be upon him was indeed raised to Heaven, and so do Muslims too. However, we see no mention throughout the ENTIRE Old Testament including obviously Isaiah 53 any mention of resurrection, nor any mention for resurrection on the 3rd day or any day. So does this mean that the servant will get pierced (by being put on the cross perhaps) and then get raised without dying?

In Isaiah 53, all it says is that he will get pierced which again it never mentioned the cross nor did it ever mention any sort of resurrection, not just in this chapter, but also throughout the Old Testament. If this servant is indeed Jesus peace be upon him, then him being pierced and never dying seems to perfectly support the Islamic teaching about Prophet Jesus peace be upon him NEVER died on the cross for anyone's sins.

Also notice that Isaiah 53:11 clearly states that "he will see the light". What is that light? Could it be the light of Heaven? Probably be raised to Heaven? Christians do believe that Jesus peace be upon him was indeed raised to Heaven, and so do Muslims too. However, we see no mention throughout the ENTIRE Old Testament including obviously Isaiah 53 any mention of resurrection, nor any mention for resurrection on the 3rd day or any day. So does this mean that the servant will get pierced (by being put on the cross perhaps) and then get raised without dying?

Now compare the Noble Verses to Isaiah 52:13 "...he will be raised and lifted up....". Notice that Isaiah 52:13 did not say "....he will be RESURRECTED and lifted up...." Not even once, did the Old Testament predict for the foretold Servant (Jesus) to be raised to GOD Almighty after death. There absolutely no mention of any sort of resurrection in the Bible's Old Testament what so ever.

Also, "...he will be raised and lifted up...." seems to suggest that Jesus will be picked up right from the cross, or saved right from the cross by Allah Almighty. "raised and lifted" seems to suggest that Jesus will not die, nor get crucified, but rather be raised and lifted by GOD Almighty to Heavens.

Let us look at Isaiah 5:12 "....because he poured out his life unto death, and was numbered with the transgressors....." This verse doesn't clearly state that the predicted servant will ACTUALLY DIE. When we study carefully the poetical literature of Isaiah 53, and study carefully the claims made above, we see that "him pouring his life unto death" means that the goodness that he will bring from GOD Almighty, will be the light that will bring his people from darkness (death) into light (goodness). He will defeat death (darkness). Isaiah 5:12 does not state that he will die. It clearly states that he will cover shadow or overwhelm death by his life.

If I pour my cup of cranberry juice on the white carpet, then I would create a big red spot on the carpet. I wouldn't be changing the juice into carpet, or the carpet into juice. No, I would simply defeat the whiteness of the carpet by the color of the juice. That's what pouring the juice on the carpet means.

Same thing applies with the servant pouring his life unto death. GOD Almighty considers evil doing and not believing in Him as equal to death.

Isaiah 53's failure to predict the resurrection of the pierced person left behind it a great deal of controversy!

If GOD Almighty were to get crucified for people's sins, then Isaiah 53 should've mentioned it, because after Jesus' crucifiction in the Bible, his body disappeared.

The Jews believe that Jesus' disciples and/or mother stole the body fearing that his body will be further humiliated (since he was nailed on the cross). So to protect the dignity of Jesus and his body, they "stole" his body.

The Christians believe that Jesus the "GOD Almighty" resurrected to Heaven!

Have Isaiah 53 mentioned that he will resurrect after 3 days to Heaven, then the issue would be resolved. But as I said above, Isaiah 53 doesn't talk at all about any form of resurrection of the person who is going to die for people's sins, nor any Verse in the entire Old Testament either. Isaiah 53 does not Prophecies about the coming of Jesus peace be upon him.

This is very important, because only GOD Almighty could resurrect people. The reason why the Old Testament never prophesied about any resurrection is because GOD Almighty never intended to send anyone to die for anyone's sins, nor did GOD Almighty promise that He will die and resurrect!

If you want to know what the Jews think about this read the link below

www.jewsforjudaism.org

Salam

[Alpha]

The word death does not exist in the proper translation.

The proper translation goes like this :
And it appointeth with the wicked his grave, And with the rich [are] his high places

What kind of garbage is this? You just used the NIV. That site also had that verse from the KJV (which is much older than the NIV and is closer to originals). But you specifically use the NIV to prove this prophecy wrong? I'm not even going to respond to this non sense. Do you even know what a "high place" is? And did you even know that the "proper translation" mentions the GRAVE in the same verse? The grave symbolizes death.

As you might know, the crucifixion back then was done by nailing to the cross the hands and the ankles or the feet. If GOD Almighty was going to protect Jesus' body that not even a single bone will be broken, then how would the crucifixion and the death of Jesus be possible then?!

This is nothing but your opinion. Is anything too hard for God? When I saw a documentary of the crucifixtion of Jesus, they showed that it is possible the nail can go through the flesh but not through a bone. For example, in the ankle you can stick a nail through your flesh and find a hole between two bones in which the nail does not even touch the bones when it goes through.

Given the facts above about the large amount of bones the human body has (27 in the hand alone), it is virtually impossible to drive nails in the hands and feet and not break a single bone from the 300+ bones the body has! Also, it is vitually impossible for Jesus to have his arms spread out on the cross, and later have his dead body's weight being pulled by gravity and not break a single bone from the upper part of the body!

Nothing but speculation on your part. If you are going to use human opinion to challenge the things of God, then why believe in God in the first place? I can understan if you're a pagan or athiest, but you believe in God for crying out loud!

Prophecies fulfilled:

Our sins rely on Jesus:
Isaiah 53:5-6..........But He was pierced through for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; The chastening for our well-being {fell} upon Him, And by His scourging we are healed. All of us like sheep have gone astray, Each of us has turned to his own way; But the LORD has caused the iniquity of us all To fall on Him.

Isaiah 53:11-12...................As a result of the anguish of His soul, He will see {it and} be satisfied; By His knowledge the Righteous One, My Servant, will justify the many, As He will bear their iniquities. Therefore, I will allot Him a portion with the great, And He will divide the booty with the strong; Because He poured out Himself to death, And was numbered with the transgressors; Yet He Himself bore the sin of many, And interceded for the transgressors.

These were fulfilled in Romans 5:8 and I Peter 2:24.

Jesus will be killed:
Isaiah 53:8-9..................By oppression and judgment He was taken away; And as for His generation, who considered That He was cut off out of the land of the living For the transgression of my people, to whom the stroke {was due?} His grave was assigned with wicked men, Yet He was with a rich man in His death, Because He had done no violence, Nor was there any deceit in His mouth.

Isaiah 53:10............But the LORD was pleased To crush Him, putting {Him} to grief; If He would render Himself {as} a guilt offering, He will see {His} offspring, He will prolong {His} days, And the good pleasure of the LORD will prosper in His hand.

Fulfilled in Matthew 27:50 and Matthew 27:38

Jesus would ressurect:
Hosea 6:2................He will revive us after two days; He will raise us up on the third day, That we may live before Him.

Fulfilled in Matthew 28:5-6

[Alpha]

Also forgot, Jesus referred to His resurrection as a sign of the prophet Jonah. So one can use that also.

[Alpha]

50 prophecies in the OT concerning Jesus fulfilled (this is only a warm up, there are probably hundreds or thousands of prophecies in the OT concerning Jesus).


1- The "seed of a woman": Genesis 3:15.... Galatians 4:4.
Jesus was born of Virgin Mary without any man involved in His conception (Is.7:14, Mat.1:23, Lk.1:27).
- Gen.3:15 And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; he will crush your head, and you will strike his heel.
- Gal.4:4 But when the time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under law. (Luk.2:7; Rev.12:5)

2- Descendent of Abraham: Genesis 12:3, 18:18.... Acts 3:25, Matthew 1:1.
- Gen. 18:18 Abraham will surely become a great and powerful nation and all nations on earth will be blessed through him. (Gen. 12:3)
- Act. 3:25 And you are heirs of the prophets and of the covenant God made with your fathers. He said to Abraham, "Through your offspring all peoples on earth will be blessed." (Mt.1:1; Lk.3:34)

3- Descendent of Isaac: Gen.17:19, Luc.3:34.
- Gen.17:19 Then God said, "Yes, but your wife Sarah will bear you a son and you will call him Isaac. I will establish my covenant with him as an everlasting covenant for his descendants after him."
-Mt.1:2 Abraham was the father of Isaac, Isaac the father of Jacob, Jacob the father of Judah and his brothers. (Lk.3:34)

4- Descendent of Jacob: Numbers 24:17...... Luke 3:34, Matt.1:2.
- Num.24:17 I see him, but not now; I behold him, but not near. A star will come out of Jacob; a scepter will will rise out of Israel. He will crush the foreheads of Moab, the skulls of all the sons of Sheth.
- Lk.3:34 The son of Jacob, the son of Isaac, the son of Abraham, the son of Terah, the son of Nahor. (Mt.1:2)

5-- From the Tribe of Judah: Genesis 49:10, Luke 3:33.
- Gen.49:10 The scepter will not depart from Judah, nor the ruler's staff from between his feet, until he comes to whom it belongs and the obedience of the nations is his.
- Lk.3:33 The son of Amminadab, the son of Ram, the son of Hezron, the son of Perez, the son of Judah. (Mt.1:2-3)

6- Hair of the Throne of David: Isaiah 9:7.... Luke 1:32-33.
- Isa.9:7 Of the increase of his government and peace there will be no end. He will reign on David's throne and over his kingdom, establishing and upholding it with justice and righteousness from that time on and forever. The zeal of the Lord Almighty will accomplish this. (Isa.11:1-5; 2Sam.7:13)
- Luk.1:32-33: He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever; his kingdom will never end." (Mt.1:1, 1:6)

Birth and Childhood:

7- Born in Bethlehem: Micah 5:2.... Matthew 2:1.... Luke 2:4-7.
- Mic.5:2 But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from ancient times.
- Mt.2:1 After Jesus was born in Bethlehem in Judea, during the time of King Herod, Magi from the east came to Jerusalem. (Lk.2:4-7)

8- To be born of a Virgin: Isaiah 7:14, Matthew 1:18.... Luke 1:26-35.
- Isa.7:14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.
- Mt.1:18 This is how the birth of Jesus Christ came about: his mother Mary was pledged to be married to Joseph, but before they came together, she was found to be with child through the Holy Spirit. (Lk.1:26-35)

9- Time of his birth: Daniel 9:25.... Luke 2:1:
- Dan.9:25 Know and understand this: From the issuing of the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One, the ruler, comes, there will be seven "sevens" and sixty two "sevens." It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble.
- Lk 2:1-2 In those days Caesar Augustus issued a decree that a census should be taken of the entire Roman world. (This was the first census that took place while Quirinius was the governor of Syria.) (Lk 2:3-7)
- Mat.2:1 After Jesus was born in Bethlehem in Judea, during the time of King Herod, Magi from the east came to Jerusalem

10- Slaughter of the Innocent children: Jeremiah 31:15.... Matthew 2:16-18.
- Jer.31:15 This is what the Lord says: "A voice is heard in Ramah, mourning and great weeping, Rachel weeping for her children and refusing to be comforted, because her children are no more."
- Mt.2:16 When Herod realized that he had been outwitted by the Magi, he was furious, and he gave orders to kill all the boys in Bethlehem and its vicinity who were two years old and under, in accordance with the time he had learned from the Magi. [Mt 2:16-18]

11- Flight to Egypt: Hosea 11:1.... Matthew 2:14-15.
- Hos.11:1 When Israel was a child, I loved him, and out of Egypt I called my son
- Mt.2:14 So he got up, took the child and his mother during the night and left for Egypt. (Mt 2:15)

12- He shall be called a Nazarene: Judges 13:5.... Matthew 2:23.
- Jud.13:5 for the child shall be a Nazarite unto God
- Mt.2:23 And he came and dwelt in a city called Nazareth: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets, He shall be called a Nazarene

Passion:

13- Triumphal entry in Jerusalem on a donkey: Zechariah 9:9.... John 12:13-14.
- Zec.9:9 Rejoice greatly, O Daughter of Zion! Shout, Daughter of Jerusalem! See, your king comes to you, righteous and having salvation, gentle and riding on a donkey, on a colt, the foal of a donkey. (Isa.62:11)
- Jn.12:13-14 They took palm branches and went out to meet him, shouting, "Hosanna!" "Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord!" "Blessed is the King of Israel!" Jesus found a young donkey and sat upon it, as it is written. (Mt.21:1-11; Jn.12:12, Mk.11:7-9.)

14- Entry through the "Golden Gate", that shall be shut for ever after his entrance: Ezekiel 44:1-2.... Mark 11:7-8.
On Palm Sunday Jesus entered Jerusalem through the Golden Gate. When you go to Jerusalem look at the Golden Gate, it is shut with stone and cement, and with a Muslim cemetery in its front, through which a Jewish Messiah will never pass.
- Ez.44:1-2 Then the man brought me back to the outer gate of the sanctuary, the one facing east, and it was shut. 2 The LORD said to me, "This gate is to remain shut. It must not be opened; no one may enter through it. It is to remain shut because the LORD , the God of Israel, has entered through it.
- Mk.11:7-8 When they brought the colt to Jesus and threw their cloaks over it, he sat on it. Many people spread their cloaks on the road, while others spread branches they had cut in the fields.

15- Betrayed by a friend, for 30 pieces of silver: Zechariah 11:12, Psalm 41:9... Mark 14:10, Matthew 26:14-15.
- Ps.41:9 Even my close friend, whom I trusted, he who shared my bread, has lifted up his heel against me.
- Mk.14:10 Then Judas Iscariot, one of the Twelve, went to the chief priests to betray Jesus to them. (Mt.26:14-16; Mk.14:43-45)
- Zec.11:12 I told them, "If you think it best, give me my pay; but if not, keep it." So they paid me thirty pieces of silver. (Zec.11:13)
- Mt.26:15 And asked, "What are you willing to give me if I hand him over to you?" So they counted out for him thirty silver coins. (Mt 27:3-10)

16- Money to be returned for a potter's field: Zechariah 11:13.... Matthew 27:6-7.
- Zec.11:13 And the Lord said to me, "Throw it to the potter"- the handsome price at which they priced me!So I took the thirty pieces of silver and threw them into the house of the Lord to the potter.
- Mt.27:6-7 The chief priests picked up the coins and said, "It is against the law to put this into the treasury, since it is blood money." So they decided to use the money to buy the potter's field as a burial place for foreigners. (Mt.27:3-5,8-10)

17- Judas's position to be taken by another: Psalm 109:7-8.... Acts 1:18-20.
- Ps.109:7-8 When he is tried, let him be found guilty, and may his prayers condemn him. May his days be few; may another take his place of leadership
- Act.1:18-20 (With the reward he got for his wickedness, Judas bought a field; there he fell headlong, his body burst open and all his intestines spilled out. Everyone in Jerusalem heard about this, so they called that field in their language Akeldama, that is, Field of Blood.) "For, " said Peter, "It is written in the book of Psalms, "'May his place be deserted; let there be no one to dwell in it,' and, "'May another take his place of leadership.'" (Ac 1:16-17)

18- Accused by false witnesses: Psalms .27:12, 35:11.... Mt 26:60-61, Mk.14:57.
- Ps.27:12 Do not turn me over to the desire of my foes, for false witnesses rise up against me, breathing out violence. (Ps.35:11)
- Mt.26:60-61 But they did not find any, though many false witnesses came forward. Finally two men came forward and declared, "This fellow said, 'I am able to destroy the temple of God and rebuild it in three days.'"

19- Silent to accusations: Isaiah 53:7.... Matthew 26:62-63, Mark.15:4-5.
- Isa.53:7 He was oppressed and afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth; he was led like a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is silent, so he did not open his mouth. (Ps.38:13-14)
- Mt 26:62-63 Then the high priest stood up and said to Jesus, "Are you not going to answer? What is this testimony that these men are bringing against you?" But Jesus remained silent. The high priest said to him, "I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God!" (Mt 27:12-14, Mk.15:4-5)

20 - Spat and struck: Isaiah 50:6, Matthew 26:67.
- Isa.50:6 I offered my back to those who beat me, my cheeks to those who pulled out my beard; I did not hide my face from mocking and spitting.
- Mk.14:65 Then some began to spit at him; they blindfolded him struck him with their fists, and said, "Prophesy!" And the guards took him and beat him. (Mt.26:27, Mk.15:17; Jn 19:1-3; 18:22)

21- Hated without reason: Psalms 69:4, 35:19, 109:3-5.... John.15:24-25.
- Ps 69:4 Those who hate me without reason outnumber the hairs of my head; many are my enemies without cause, those who seek to destroy me. I am forced to restore what I did not steal. (Ps.35:19, 109:3-5)
- Jn.15:23-25 He who hates me hates my Father as well. If I had not done among them what no one else did, they would not be guilty of sin. But now they have seen these miracles, and yet they have hated both me and my Father. But this is to fulfill what is written in their Law: "They hated me without reason."

22- Soldiers divided his garments and gambled for his clothing: Psalm 22:18... Matt.27:35 (2 Prophecies)
- Ps 22:18 They divide my garments among them and cast lots for my clothing.
- Mt.27:35 And they crucified him, and parted his garments, casting lots: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, They parted my garments among them, and upon my vesture did they cast lots (Mk.15:24).

23- Crucified, "pierced through hands and feet": Zechariah 12:10, Psalm 22:16.... Matthew 27:35, John 20:27.
- Ps.22:16 Dogs have surrounded me; a band of evil men has encircled me, they have pierced my hands and my feet. (Zec.12:10)
- Mt.27:35 And they crucified him.
- Jn. 20:25-26 Now Thomas (called Didymus)... he said to them, "Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe it." (Jn.19:37, 20:27)

24- Crucified with malefactors: Isaiah 53:12.... Mark 15:27-28.
- Isa.53:12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great, and he will divide the spoils with the strong, because he poured out his life unto death, and was numbered with the transgressors. For he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
- Mt 27:38 Two robbers were crucified with him, one on his right and one on his left. (Mk 15:27-28; Lk 23:33)

25- Agonized in Thirst: Psalm 22:15.... John 19:28.
- Ps.22:15 My strength is dried up like a potsherd; and my tongue cleaveth to my jaws; and thou hast brought me into the dust of death.
- Jn.19:28 After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst.

26- Given gall and vinegar: Psalm 69:21.... Matthew 27:34, 48, John 19:19.
- Ps.69:21 They put gall in my food and gave me vinegar for my thirst.
- Mat.27:34 They gave him vinegar to drink mingled with gall: and when he had tasted thereof, he would not drink [Jn.19:29, Mat.27:48].

27- No bones broken: Psalm 34:20.... John 19:32-36.
- Ps 34:20 He protects all his bones, not one of them will be broken. (Ex 12:46)
- Jn 19:33 But when they came to Jesus and found that he was already dead, they did not break his legs.

28- His side pierced: Zechariah 12:10.... John 19:34.
- Zec.12:10 They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son.
- Jn 19:34 Instead, one of the soldiers pierced Jesus' side with a spear, bringing a sudden flow of blood and water.

29- Deserted by God: Psalm 22:1.... Matthew 27:46.
- Ps.22:1 My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?
- Mat.27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

30- Vicarious Sacrifice: Isaiah 53:4-5, 6, 12.... Matthew 8:16-17, Romans 4:25, 5:6-8, 1 Corinthians 15:3.
- Isa.53:4-5 Surely he took up our infirmities and carried our sorrows, yet we considered him stricken by God, smitten by him, and afflicted. But he was pierced for transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed. (Is. 53:6, 12)
- Mt.8:16-17 When evening came, many who were demon-possessed were brought to him, and he drove out the spirits with a word and healed all the sick. This was to fulfill what was spoken through the prophet Isaiah: "He took up our infirmities and carried our diseases." (Ro 4:25, 5:6-8, 1Cor 15:3)

31- Buried with the rich: Isaiah 53:9, Matthew 27:57-60.
- Isa.53:9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death, though he had done no violence, nor was any deceit in his mouth.
- Mt.27:57-60 As evening approached, there came a rich man from Arimathea, named Joseph, who had himself become a disciple of Jesus. Going to Pilate, he asked for Jesus' body, and Pilate ordered that it be given to him. Joseph took the body, wrapped it in a clean linen cloth, and placed it in his own new tomb that he had cut out of the rock. He rolled a big stone in front of the entrance to the tomb and went away

32- Deserted by his followers: Zechariah 13:7.... Mark 14:27.
- Zec.13:7 smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.
- Mk.14:27 And Jesus saith unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered.

33- Time of his death: Daniel 9:25.... Luke 2:1, Matthew 2:1:
- Doing the proper computations, the Messiah was supposed to die on April 3, of the year 33 AC (Open Bible pag.833)

34- Resurrection of Jesus: Hosea 6:2, Psalms 16:10, 49:15..... Luke 24:6-7, Mark.16:6-7.
- Hos.6:2 After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.
- Lk.24:6-7 He is not here, but is risen: remember how he spake unto you when he was yet in Galilee, Saying, The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again.

35- Other dead raised with Him: Isaiah 26:19, Ezekiel 37:7-10..... Matthew 27:52-53.
- Isa.26:19 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.
- Ez.37:7-10 So I prophesied as I was commanded: and as I prophesied, there was a noise, and behold a shaking, and the bones came together, bone to his bone. And when I beheld, lo, the sinews and the flesh came up upon them, and the skin covered them above: but there was no breath in them. Then said he unto me, Prophesy unto the wind, prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live. So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army.
- Mat.27:52-53 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

36- Ascension to Heaven: Psalms 68:18, 24:3.....Lk 24:50-51, Acts 1:11, Mk.16:19.
- Ps.68:18 Thou hast ascended on high, thou hast led captivity captive: thou hast received gifts for men; yea, for the rebellious also, that the LORD God might dwell among them.
- Ps.24:3 Who shall ascend into the hill of the LORD? or who shall stand in his holy place?
- Lk 24:50-51 When he had led them out to the vicinity of Bethany, he lifted up his hands and blessed them. While he was blessing them, he left them and was taken up into heaven
- Act.1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

37- Christ at the Right hand of the Father: Psalm 110:1..... Hebrews 1:2,3.
- Ps.110:1 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
- Heb.1:2,3 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

Ministry:

38- The way prepared by John the Baptist: Isaiah 40:3,5.... John 1:23, Luke 3:3-6.
- Isa.40:3 The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.
- Jn.1:23 He said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said the prophet Isaiah

39- Preceded by a forerunner: Mal.3:1, Luk.7:24-27.
40- Preceded by Elijah: Mal.4:5-6, Matt.11:13-14.
41- Declared the Son of God: Ps.2:7, Matt.3:17.
42- Galilean Ministry: Is.9:1-2, Matt.4:13-16.
43- Speaks in Parables: Ps.78:2-4, Matt.13:34-35.
44- A Prophet: Deut.18:15, Jn.6:14, Acts 3:20-22.
45- Priest after the Order of Melchizedek: Ps.110:4, Heb.5:5-6.
46- To bind up the brokenhearted: Is.61:1-2, Luk.4:18-19.
47- Rejected by his own people, the Jews: Is.53:3, John 1:11.
48- Not believed: Is.53:1, John 12:37.
49- Adored by infants: Ps.8:2, Matt.21:15--16.
50- Anointed and eternal: Ps.45:6-7, Heb.1:8-12.

[oneGOD]

Alpha, I will come across all of those prophecies in later posts. This one only discusses ISIAHA

What kind of garbage is this? You just used the NIV. That site also had that verse from the KJV (which is much older than the NIV and is closer to originals). But you specifically use the NIV to prove this prophecy wrong? I'm not even going to respond to this non sense. Do you even know what a "high place" is? And did you even know that the "proper translation" mentions the GRAVE in the same verse? The grave symbolizes death.

It's still the proper translation. Hebrew translation also. Here is what it says about this translation

The Bible text designated YLT is from the 1898 Young's Literal Translation by Robert Young who also compiled Young's Analytical Concordance. This is an extremely literal translation that attempts to preserve the tense and word usage as found in the original Greek and Hebrew writings. The text was scanned from a reprint of the 1898 edition as published by Baker Book House, Grand Rapids Michigan. The book is still in print and may be ordered from Baker Book House. Obvious errors in spelling or inconsistent spellings of the same word were corrected in the computer edition of the text.

I don't see anything wrong with, you just like the imporoper translation you read

Also, maybe I should remind you that you forg to read this also:

read ISIAIH 52:14:"Just as there were many who were appalled at him - his appearance was so disfigured beyond that of any man and his form marred beyond human likeness"

According to what we have in the New Testament, Jesus was never "disfigured.....beyond human likeness"! Jesus in the New Testament of today was NEVER DISFIGURED! And certainly, the crucifixion does not cause for the person, NOR DID IT CAUSE FOR JESUS IN THE NEW TESTAMENT, to be disfigured beyond any human recognition!

Nothing but speculation on your part. If you are going to use human opinion to challenge the things of God, then why believe in God in the first place? I can understan if you're a pagan or athiest, but you believe in God for crying out loud!

I do believe in God all mighty. I'm not speculating, it's common sense.

This is nothing but your opinion. Is anything too hard for God? When I saw a documentary of the crucifixtion of Jesus, they showed that it is possible the nail can go through the flesh but not through a bone. For example, in the ankle you can stick a nail through your flesh and find a hole between two bones in which the nail does not even touch the bones when it goes through.

Heh, read this below:

it is vitually impossible for Jesus to have his arms spread out on the cross, and later have his dead body's weight being pulled by gravity and not break a single bone from the upper part of the body!

Alpha, you ignored most of the other things I've argued about. Here is the problem. Translation is imporoper and you know it. You just want to stick with the translation that make sense to your faith I understand,but I think you should not overlook this literal translation man.

[Believer]

OneGOD,

Alpha, you ignored most of the other things I've argued about

And you ignore the many amazing prophecies for the Lord Jesus!
You can look up the OT prophecies in an online Tanakh, they're not mistranslations.

Besides, there are NO prophecies for Muhammed showing he's the final prophet. Doesn't this bother you?

[oneGOD]

And you ignore the many amazing prophecies for the Lord Jesus!

we're only discussing ISIAHA here

Besides, there are NO prophecies for Muhammed showing he's the final prophet. Doesn't this bother you?

This sin't the subject
[/quote]

[Alpha]

It's still the proper translation. Hebrew translation also.

Like I said, even if you use this "proper translation," it still mentions the word "grave" in the exact same verse it mentions "high places." Does the grave symbolize death or does the grave symbolize God saving Jesus from death?

it is vitually impossible for Jesus to have his arms spread out on the cross, and later have his dead body's weight being pulled by gravity and not break a single bone from the upper part of the body!

Common sense would tell me that humans cannot resurrect and the seas cannot be split so people can walk across to the other side. My common sense is nothing in comparison to the things of God. If God says no bones will be broken, then no bones will be broken.

You just want to stick with the translation that make sense to your faith I understand,but I think you should not overlook this literal translation man.

It doesn't matter which translation I use, they all teach that God sacrificed Jesus for the sins of the world and you will have eternal life if you accept God's sacrifice and follow His ways.

read ISIAIH 52:14:"Just as there were many who were appalled at him - his appearance was so disfigured beyond that of any man and his form marred beyond human likeness"

According to what we have in the New Testament, Jesus was never "disfigured.....beyond human likeness"! Jesus in the New Testament of today was NEVER DISFIGURED! And certainly, the crucifixion does not cause for the person, NOR DID IT CAUSE FOR JESUS IN THE NEW TESTAMENT, to be disfigured beyond any human recognition!

The New John Gill Exposition says, "though fairer than the children of men, as he was the immediate workmanship of the divine Spirit, and without sin; yet, what with his griefs and sorrows he bore, and troubles he met with; what with watchings and fastings, with laborious preaching, and constant travelling about to do good; what with sweat and blood, with buffetings and scourgings, never was any man's face more marred, or his form more altered, than his was."

The New Testament shows these things- Jesus sweated BLOOD for crying out loud! Stones were throwed at him, he was smacked in the face, pearced in the side, spat upon, wore a crown of thorns. This guy suffered more than all of man combined.

[webmaster]

Another proper translation was done 2100 years ago by "The Essenes in Qumran "!

Dead Sea Scrolls

5. (Chapter 53:1) Who has believed our report and the arm of YHWH to whom has it been revealed (2) And he shall come up like a suckling before us
6. and as a root from dry ground there is no form to him and no beauty to him and in his being seen and there is no appearance
7. that we should desire him. (3) He is despised and rejected of men, a man of sorrows and knowing grief
8. and as though hiding faces from him he was despised and we did not esteem him. (4) Surely our griefs he
9. is bearing and our sorrows he carried them and we esteemed him beaten and struck by God
[There is a scribal thumb print over lines 10 to 12.]
10. and afflicted. (5) and he is wounded for our transgressions, and crushed for our iniquities, the correction
11. of our peace was upon him and by his wounds he has healed us. (6) All of us like sheep have wandered each man to his own way
12. we have turned and YHWH has caused to light on him the iniquity of all of us (7) He was oppressed and he was afflicted and he did not
13. open his mouth, as a lamb to the slaughter he is brought and as a ewe before her shearers is made dumb he did not open
14. his mouth. (8) From prison and from judgement he was taken and his generation who shall discuss it because he was cut off from the land of
15. the living. Because from the transgressions of his people a wound was to him (PP)
16. (9) And they gave wicked ones to be his grave and [a scribbled word probably accusative sign "eth"] rich ones in his death
17. although he worked no violence neither deceit in his mouth (10) And YHWH was pleased to crush him and He has caused him grief. (PP)
18. If you will appoint his soul a sin offering he will see his seed and he will lengthen his days and the pleasure of YHWH {&yod?&]
19. in his hand will advance. (11) Of the toil of his soul he shall see {+light+} and he shall be satisfied and by his knowledge shall he make righteous
20. even my righteous servant for many and their iniquities he will bear. (12) Therefore I will apportion to him among the great ones
21. and with the mighty ones he shall divide the spoil because he laid bare to death his soul and with the transgressors
22. he was numbered, and he, the sins of many, he bore, and for their transgressions he entreated.(PP)

1. (Continue Chapter 54:4) any more. (5.) For your husband is your Maker; YHWH of hosts is his name; and your Redeemer the Holy One of
2. Israel; He shall be called The God of the whole earth. (6.) because as a woman forsaken and grieved
3. in spirit, YHWH has called you, and a wife of youth, because you were refused, says [+YHWH+] your God.
4. (7.) For a small moment have I forsaken you; but with great mercies will I gather you. (8.) In overflowing wrath
5. I hid my face from you for a moment; but with everlasting kindness will I have mercy on you


The Essenes in Qumran who copied this scroll approximately 100 BCE are not to be considered the protectors of an accurate text identical with the Tanach which would have been revered by the Rabbis. They were actually far from the main stream and it is clear that the Q text of Isaiah is a "dialect" of Hebrew. It is not a translation, but is characterized by modifications in spelling and personal pronouns to match the then current Aramaic dialect that the Essenes would have spoken. It was much like changing "ye," "thee" and "thou" to "you" and "thine" to "yours" would be to us. Thus the preservation of an identical letter for letter received text was not at all a part of their motivation in their use of the scriptures. The Qumran texts that I have translated (1QaIsa) and (1QpHab) are dialects of Hebrew and not the Hebrew of the Tanach. Preservation of the original Hebrew letter for letter text was the role played by the Rabbis of the "main stream" in Jerusalem and Babylon (Sura, Nahardea and Pumbidita) and they had a special class, an office called Scribes, who carefully copied manuscripts then kept the new and destroyed the old. The Essenes were not and did not claim to be copyists of the same genre.

With this fact in mind, (that the Qumran scribes used their own discretion to alter the text to fit their own dialect), then the correspondence between the text of the Great Isaiah Scroll and the Masoretic text of Isaiah is all the more remarkable.






18. This is the heritage of the servants of YHWH, and their righteousness is from me, says YHWH. (Chapter 55:1) Ho,
19. every one thirsting, come you to the water, and he who has no money; come, buy, without silver
20. [m..+and eat;+] and without price wine and milk. (2.) Why do you spend money and it is not bread and your labor
21. for that which does not satisfy? Listen diligently to me, and eat the good, and let your soul be pampered in fatness.
22. (3.) Extend your ear, and come to me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make with you
23. an everlasting covenant, the faithful mercies of David. (4.) Behold, I have given him for a witness to the people, [*]
24. a leader and commander to the people. (5.) Behold, a nation that you do not know you shall call, and a nation that you have not known
25. shall run to you because of YHWH your God, and for the Holy One of Israel; for he has glorified you. (PP)
26. (6.). Seek YHWH while he may be found, call upon him while he is near: (7.) Let the wicked abandon his way,
27. and the evil man his thoughts: and let him return to YHWH, and he will have mercy on him; and to our God,
28. for he will excuse greatly. (8.) For my thoughts are not your thoughts, nor are your ways my ways, says YHWH

http://www.ao.net/~fmoeller/qa-tran.htm

[oneGOD]

Peace Webmaster, nice to hear again from you man
Peace Alpha

Common sense would tell me that humans cannot resurrect and the seas cannot be split so people can walk across to the other side. My common sense is nothing in comparison to the things of God. If God says no bones will be broken, then no bones will be broken.

Alpha, when it comes to a crucial prophecy about his bones like that, no doubt should exist. For God to have us believe with NO DOUBT that he sent his son to die for us means he will not be crucified because this will simply leave the doubt in many about bones not being broken on the cross.

As a matter of fact, ISIAIH supports the Islamic theory about Jesus.
1)He was not killed ---> no bones were broken
2) His grave was assigned with the wicked ----> They thought they killed him
3) He will see the light ----> yes he saw the light and was lefted and raised to God with no harm done to him because God is fair and wouldn't punish someone for something he didn't do.

and I say so for the following reason:

Deuteronomy 24:" 16:The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, nor shall the children be put to death for the fathers; every man shall be put to death for his own sin."

Ezekiel 18: "19: "Yet you say, `Why should not the son suffer for the iniquity of the father?' When the son has done what is lawful and right, and has been careful to observe all my statutes, he shall surely live.
20: The soul that sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son; the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.

I didn't bring those verses from home. They are written in YOUR BOOK and it's just so obvious.

About translations : I proved my point about the different texts and the different translation which lead to this misunderstanding of ISIAIH. If Jesus is to bear the sins of mankind then it is just a celar contradiction to
Deuteronomy 24:16, Ezekiel 18:19 and many more.

Salam.

[Believer]

Those sons and fathers and children are the people of Israel, not some prophecy for Jesus Christ.
Nice try.

[Lady Fatima]

Peace Alpha,

Also forgot, Jesus referred to His resurrection as a sign of the prophet Jonah. So one can use that also.

Umm... He failed in fulfilling the sign of Jonah. So it comes to this, either the Bible is lying or Jesus is lying. You choose

Peace and Blessings be to the Believers

[oneGOD]

Those sons and fathers and children are the people of Israel, not some prophecy for Jesus Christ.

ALl I can say is .... LOL

[Alpha]

Alpha, when it comes to a crucial prophecy about his bones like that, no doubt should exist. For God to have us believe with NO DOUBT that he sent his son to die for us means he will not be crucified because this will simply leave the doubt in many about bones not being broken on the cross.

Do you believe the splitting of the red sea with NO DOUBT? If you do, then there is no evidence to support it today and yet you still believe. Why do you still believe in some miracles of God if you've never seen them? Because you realize that God is who He is and when He says something is going to happen, do not question Him. When Nebby was ruler in Babylon, he took three Jews and put them in a fire. Now you would say atleast those Jews would be burned. But when they came out the fire nothing happened to them (Daniel 3:23-27). Now are you going to say they did not enter the fire? Are you going to take away the glory of God and say it is impossible for them to not even be burned a little? So don't say Christ had to brake a bone since He was crucified.

As a matter of fact, ISIAIH supports the Islamic theory about Jesus.
1)He was not killed ---> no bones were broken
2) His grave was assigned with the wicked ----> They thought they killed him
3) He will see the light ----> yes he saw the light and was lefted and raised to God with no harm done to him because God is fair and wouldn't punish someone for something he didn't do.

Your interpreted Isaiah verses have already been refuted in this topic. It prophecies Christ's death.

and I say so for the following reason:

Deuteronomy 24:" 16:The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, nor shall the children be put to death for the fathers; every man shall be put to death for his own sin."

Ezekiel 18: "19: "Yet you say, `Why should not the son suffer for the iniquity of the father?' When the son has done what is lawful and right, and has been careful to observe all my statutes, he shall surely live.
20: The soul that sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son; the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.

I didn't bring those verses from home. They are written in YOUR BOOK and it's just so obvious.

Those verses are talking about the relationship between an earthy father and son. They have nothing to do with the sinless Saviour that died for our iniquities. Apples and oranges my friend. Believer already pointed it out for you. And eventhough Christ died for our sins, that does not take away the aspect of reaping and sowing. If you sow righteousness, you will reap righteousness, and if you sow wickedness, you will still reap wickedness.

About translations : I proved my point about the different texts and the different translation which lead to this misunderstanding of ISIAIH. If Jesus is to bear the sins of mankind then it is just a celar contradiction to
Deuteronomy 24:16, Ezekiel 18:19 and many more.

Already explained.

Those sons and fathers and children are the people of Israel, not some prophecy for Jesus Christ.

ALl I can say is .... LOL

That's either a laugh of defeat or denial. Your arguments have already been refuted.

Umm... He failed in fulfilling the sign of Jonah. So it comes to this, either the Bible is lying or Jesus is lying. You choose

Ummmm.......no He didn't fail to fulfill the sign.

New John Gill Exposition: So shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart
of the earth.
That Christ means himself by the "son of man", there is no reason to doubt; and his being laid in a tomb, dug out of a rock, is sufficient to answer this phrase, "the heart of the earth", in distinction from the surface of it; but some difficulty arises about the time of his continuing there, and the prediction here made agreeable to the type: for it was on the sixth day of the week, we commonly call "Friday", towards the close, on the day of the preparation for the sabbath, and when the sabbath drew on, that the body of Christ was laid in the sepulchre; where it lay all the next day, which was the sabbath of the Jews, and what we commonly call "Saturday"; and early on the first of the week, usually called "Sunday", or the Lord's day, he rose from the dead; so that he was but one whole day, and part of two, in the grave. To solve this difficulty, and set the matter in a clear light, let it be observed, that the three days and three nights, mean three natural days, consisting of day and night, or twenty four hours, and are what the Greeks call (nucyhmera) , "night days"; but the Jews have no other way of expressing them, but as here; and with them it is a well known rule, and used on all occasions, as in the computation of their feasts and times of mourning, in the observance of the passover, circumcision, and divers purifications, that (wlwkk Mwyh tuqm) , "a part of a day is as the whole": and so, whatever was done before sun setting, or after, if but an hour, or ever so small a time, before or after it, it was reckoned as the whole preceding, or following day; and whether this was in the night part, or day part of the night day, or natural day, it mattered not, it was accounted as the whole night day: by this rule, the case here is easily adjusted; Christ was laid in the grave towards the close of the sixth day, a little before sun setting, and this being a part of the night day preceding, is reckoned as the whole; he continued there the whole night day following, being the seventh day; and rose again early on the first day, which being after sun setting, though it might be even before sun rising, yet being a part of the night day following, is to be esteemed as the whole; and thus the son of man was to be, and was three days and three nights in the grave; and which was very easy to be understood by the Jews; and it is a question whether Jonas was longer in the belly of the fish.

[Scorpion]

Can somebody tell me the verses and prophecie's anybody is unsure about.

I will ask my dad when he gets back, he knows alot about the prophecies in the Bible.

Lady fatima: Shall i ask my dad about the Jonah thing your talking about? What would you like to know about it?

Please provide me with details of prophecies yo are unsure of in the Bible 1 at a time and i will refute them 1 by 1 and get back to you.

Thanks

[Mujahideen]

only one prophecy unfulfilled will prove the bible wrong.

I'll get the references.


it says cain will always be a wanderer...2 verses later cain settled in a city.

case closed.

there are more but one is sufficient.

[Scorpion]

Mujahideen ... There are no False prophecies in the Bible ... I agree ... If there was even one, I would leave Christianity, this is not the case though.

Can you give me EXACT details of what you were talking about Cain? Scripture references etc etc.

Thanks.

[Vision]

it says cain will always be a wanderer...2 verses later cain settled in a city.

case closed.

Sorry case has only just opened,

You apparently dont know anything about the hebrew language. Give me the chapter and verse and I will have a look at it.

[oneGOD]

Hey, the word dead is not in the literal original hebrew bible.

No bones will be broken is actually a support of the Islamic claim that Jesus didn't die.

No source to resurrection in three days in the OT and you know better Alpha.

Anyway, people who read thread from both religions can decide now.

[Scorpion]

OneGod:

Im sure people can see wether The Real Rolex comes before or After, or wether Counterfeits come before or after, or wether to beleive Islam and Mohammed's supposed Revelation, or to beleive Mormons and Joseph smith and the other Satanic gang.

Im sure somebody who is wise will make a wise decision.
Also my friend ... can you tell me what part's of Isaiah 53 you dont agree with and think support Islam?

Please give me the exact verses and what you think it means, and i will have me and my dad and my uncle who's an Expert on Christian Apologetics, give you a lovely jubbly reply. Yeh?

Good day and God Bless.