Homosexuals Opposed to Pride Extremism

[Aineo]

There's HOPE for the World
Homosexuals Opposed to Pride Extremism
hopenow@hotmail.com
August 2003

If you don't swing with the Sodomites, you're nowheresville on the A-list
Camille Paglia


Last weekend's attack on the Gay Pride Parade in Stockholm Sweden and the infantile spray painting of 'shame' on the sidewalk in front of St Michael's Cathedral is a sad warning of how ugly and vicious the battle between the so-called right and left could become. My activist brothers and sisters in concert with the judicial elite, the cowed politicians and the liberal media have seriously jeopardized decades of work to ensure
tolerance and privacy, because of their greedy, relentless pursuit of lifestyle affirmation.

It's as easy as eating an ice-cream cone to deconstuct same-sex marriage without the slightest reference to Scripture or church doctrine. Although I hate dogma in any form - be it religious or gay activist - I recognize the universal truth that no major world religion has ever endorsed homosexuality which can be openly practised only in peaceful, affluent and cosmopolitan times. Even in classical antiquity, homosexuality was controversial, and despite the exaggerated claims of todays partisans, there was no place or period where it flourished in complete freedom
from moral opprobrium.

Instead of excoriating the Vatican and misquoting Bishop Henry, the 'choice and diversity' crowd would do well to read the gay press, which normally tows the activist party-line, but which has long been replete with articles, editorials and letters lambasting and lampooning the whole idea of same-sex nuptials. Clearly, a substantial majority of us neither need nor want gay marriage. Lesbian authors, Jane Rule and Camille Paglia, drag queen, Sky Gilbert and the late pioneer activist, Harry Hay are among the numerous prominent opponents of this forced parity.

We neither need nor want the state in our bedrooms. We neither need nor want to be shackled by rules, regulations or paperwork. We've already won the same-sex benefits battle, so there's no longer concern over matters of pensions or estates. Let the straights keep marriage. We need to be liberated from the mainstream, homogeneous, egalitarian mindset that is destroying what is left of gay culture.

Even the January 14, 2001 gay wedding spectacle at Toronto's Metropolitan Community Church, although treated as the social event of the season by a delirious media circus, was shunned and scoffed at by the gay community. Better to stay at home and clean out the fridge when your public image is so embarrassingly represented by such maudlin specimens of martyrdom, who fancy themselves as pioneers and revolutionaries, but who simply reinforce every prejudice against us.

As an openly gay male, I have no problem conceding that heterosexuality is and will always be the great human norm. But I have no time for the modern, feel-good, pop-culture mentality that facilely equates homosexuality with heterosexuality and asks no deep questions about human psychology beyond the the superficial liberal-vs-conservative, freedom-vs-oppression dichotomy. And I have even less time for the unsatiable demands and infantile caterwauling of my radical brothers and sisters who want to make the whole world their closet.

So, I formed HOPE (Homosexuals Opposed to Pride Extremism) in 1997 to
a) expose the lies, myths, distortions and propaganda of modern gay activism, b) deconstruct the oppression and victimology politics, c) give a credible voice to happy, successful and independent gays and lesbians who don't wake up every day finding "hate, bigotry and discrimination" under the bed and who don't go running to the courts, the governments or the human rights commissions for a lifetime of therapeutic preferences. Over the past six years, my supposedly controversial stance has brought me considerable media attention, writing articles or being written about in both the gay and mainstream press, and participating in radio and television interviews and debates. In April of 2001, I was asked to
prepare an affidavit on behalf of the respondents in the same-sex marriage cases being heard in the Supreme Court of British Columbia.

Most Canadians believe that gays and lesbians should be able to pursue any brand of consensual sex as we see fit and form whatever relationships that make us happy. But I'm sick and tired of the activist mantra that my dignity and my relationships are devalued because the state will not codify same-sex marriage. And I'm not so insecure and so selfish to demand that marriage be redefined for everyone else. Marriage is not an arbitrary convention and is not meant to change with the times. We're not talking about music, fashion or art. We're talking about an institution whose 4 prohibitions - you can only marry one person at a time, only someone of the opposite sex, never someone beneath a certain age, and not a close blood relative - have been grounded in morality and in law for millennia (the highlighting etc is mine - RJ). Humankind yearns for these stabilizing factors in our kaleidoscopic world and if we abandon these standards, then everything becomes legal and everything becomes moral. If gay marriages are permitted (a prerogrative of the most decadent Roman emperors), why not polygamy? Why not brother and sister or parent and child?

One does not have to be a "fanatical, right-wing, religious fundamentalist" to oppose gay marriage. It is significant to note that an interfaith coalition of Roman Catholics, Sikhs, Muslims, Anglicans and Evangelicals intervened in the court challenges to the Marriage Act and continue to fight this nihilism to the bitter end. That such a diverse body of religious organizations, all of whom have numerous disagreements in matters of doctrine, theology and practice, are unanimous in their defence of marriage, clearly shows a universal pressing concern for this issue.
So gays need to stop bitching about sincere Christians, Jews and Muslims who are merely exercising their constitutional rights to free speech about homosexuality and whose vast philosophical perspective easily triumphs over the provincialism and amorality of the gay world. Indeed, their position is far more credible and honest than the tortuous casuistry of self-interested clerics who take the path of least resistance by creating their own church, tailor-made to affirm their Rainbow philosophy.

Gay activists and their ever-willing accomplices in the media, relentlessly drive through our skulls that homosexuality is "not a choice", because no one would choose to be gay in a homophobic society. Firstly, there is an element of choice in all behavior, sexual or otherwise. Secondly, despite public fanfare and trendy hypotheses, there is no conclusive scientific evidence as to the biological, genetic, psychological and sociological influences on sexual orientation. The modern change in opinion concerning homosexuality, though presented as a scientific advance, is contradicted rather than supported by science. It is a transformation of public morals
consistent with widespread abandonment of the Judeo-Christian ethics upon which our civilization is based. Though hailed as "progress", it is really a reversion to ancient pagan practices supported by a counter-culture restatement of gnostic moral relativism.

It is well documented that long term relationships and fidelity are extremely rare in the gay world. From Hollywood Boy Parties to Fire Island, from Gay Pride to Gay Games, homosexual men are relentlessly searching for "Mecca" - even if it's just for a weekend. Even at the Annual Global Conference on AIDS, the nightlife is more noteworthy than the daytime activities. Every night the discos are packed with gay doctors, nurses, activists and researchers shamelessly cruising one another.
Likewise the bathhouses do land-office business. In spite of the solemnity and tragedy in dealing dealing with a wasteful and fatal disease, the hedonistic, promiscuous, sex-carnival atmosphere never lets up.

One of the most popular and essential resource guides for gays who travel, are those which reverently chronicle cruising areas for anonymous gay sex, from bathhouses, parks, public washrooms, rural highways to big-city bus stations. Anyone who, thinks that same-sex marriage will quell the gay male compulsion for libidinal excess, is either naive or disingenuous. Recently, Xtra, Canada's gay and lesbian bi-weekly, ran a feature entitled "How to Stay Married and Still Be a Slut", which, at first glance, seems satirical, but which is actually a serious guideline on how to have one's cake and eat it too. Another article in the same journal, spoke of the perverse irony that the right to marry is being fought by those who are already hitched, their youth gone, their kids growing or grown, and their parents shrinking before their very eyes.

In its affidavit in support of same-sex marriage, EGALE (Equality for Gays and Lesbians Everywhere) contends that if gays and lesbians are excluded from that which is available to the rest of society, we will always remain marginalized and stigmatized. Rubbish! Gay activism has always been naive in its beligerent confidence that "homophobia" will disappear with massive and forced education of the benighted. But such relentless indoctrination cannot be achieved without fascist obliteration of all freedoms. And since freedom always trumps diversity and tolerance, you can rest assured that any perceived threat to freedom will result in a societal backlash which will guarantee oppression of all homosexuals.
Gay males, especially, are forever on the edge of a precipice, because in a political cataclysm we are always the first to be purged.

Another spurious contention from EGALE is that "gender purity" is tantamount to "racial purity". This is not only intellectually dishonest, but is insultingly disrespectful to Blacks, Jews and other ethnic minorities. Lesbian author and professor of humanities, Camille Paglia, succinctly states: " The gay activist establishment has been stupid and narrow in the way it has conducted its civil rights campaign. There is no gay leader remotely near the stature of Martin Luther King, because black activism has drawn on the profound spiritual traditions of the church, to which gay political rhetoric is childishly hostile. The parallel claimed by gay leaders between blacks and gays as oppressed minorities has always been questionable, and many African-Americans have angrily rejected it. Indeed, discrimination against skin color is not wholly comparable to the complicated resistance of virtually all societies to open homosexuality, which involves thorny questions of morality and psychology. Most gays can 'pass' whenever they want - an option available to few blacks." (Vamps and Tramps, 1994)

Whatever society teaches or doesn't teach about homosexuality, no gay or
lesbian, surrounded overwhelmingly by heterosexuals, will feel at home in
his or her sexual and emotional world, even in the most tolerant of cultures. At a young age we learn the rituals of deceit, impersonation and appearance, and anyone who believes political. social or even cultural revolution will change this fundamentally is denying reality. The unhappy truth is that male homosexuality will never be fully accepted by the heterosexual majority, who are obeying the dictates not of "bigoted" society or religion, but of procreative nature. Yet this desperation deepens our artistic insight and allows us to create civilization. Undoubtedly, Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, Tchaikovsky, Somerset Maugham, Gore Vidal, et al experienced hardship and alienation. But look what they gave to the world. Look how they advanced the cultural heritage. They were too cultivated, creative and cosmopolitan to be concerned with the trivialities of sexual pride, queer studies or diversity. One of them glorified God and Church by painting the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel, despite the Vatican's unequivocal denunciation of homosexuality.

By far, the scariest and most insidious corollary to same-sex marriage is
same-sex adoption (already legal in some jurisdictions). This is blatant
child abuse. Children need a biological mother and father. We know this
is not always possible, even in the context of opposite-sex marriage, but
we don't solve the problem or alleviate the inconsistency by augmenting it.
Children are not meant to be guinea pigs for social engineering experiments.

Self-interested partisans will manufacture statistics to support ther specious claims that children of gay marriages fare as well as those of traditional families. But the phenomenon of same-sex parenting doesn't have the longevity needed for such conclusive evidence, whereas the experience of single-parent families has not always, but often shown detriment to the development of the offspring.

When society allows men to marry men and women to marry women, it
perpetuates the alienation of the sexes and contributes to the ever-increasing crisis in the sex roles. Before Stonewall, gays and lesbians mixed socially and in the clubs with a pretty good understanding of and appreciation for one another. But as gay liberation took hold, gay males, feeling ebullient from their new-found freedom, descended into a bacchanalia of narcissism and promiscuity. Segregated bars, orgy rooms and bathhouses exploded in number and luxury. Strange parasitic diseases soon began appearing, and by 1981, a "gay cancer" was identified as AIDS. We must honestly admit that even gay men's attempt to create a world without women failed catastrophically.

Unfortunately, most people's sense of history begins the day they were born, which means all that precedes is outmoded and irrelevant and all that follows is enlightened and progressive. However, we cannot and must not ignore the lessons of history and natural law. Again and again, it has been shown that whenever humankind fails to protect time-honored political, moral and social institutions, whenever humankind attempts to embrace pride as a virtue and mainstream behavior that contravenes natural law, and whenever humankind becomes arrogant, autonomous, egalitarian, nihilistic and foolish, civilization fails - always and without exception. So, here we are repeating the cycle and getting ready to crash and burn one more time.


John McKellar
President, HOPE
Toronto, ON, Canada

[The Shrink]

Hello Aineo....it's your friend, Big Queer Organist. I am back again using my friend's screenname. Before you crap your depends, understand he wanted me to answer this question because I am well, Gay.



This article is definitely something I would agree with. Do you actually think I am PROUD to be gay? Do you think I am PROUD to have people turn their heads and whisper when I walk hand and hand with my boyfriend?

Hell no I am not!!! This sick disease which I have been stricken with is the last thing I would be proud of. My parents are not PROUD they turned out straight, therefore I am not PROUD I turned out gay.


I have never, will never, and wil never date ANYONE who has participated in some sort of "rubbing it in your face" pride movement.

So you ask now...how are you "out" in church. It is not like I have a banner across the gallery organ saying "gay organist plays here" and my boys choir does not wear rainbow colored robes. I dont even wear purple shirts and off color suits to work....it is more conservative black armani suits.

Yeah, my hair may be a little better kept than others, my skin may be softer, my body may smell different, however I am not a walking gay advertisement.

Before people know that I am gay, they know me as a person, a human being and a friend.

So my response to your post......

This is about the most reasonable post you have put up. In fact, if you can find ther website for his movement I would not hesitate to donate money to his cause. I am definitely ANTI PRIDE, ANTI RAINBOW FLAG, and ANTI rubbing it in peoples' faces.

[Episcopalian for Schism]

<I>Hello Aineo....it's your friend, Big Queer Organist. </I>


Big Queer Organist=The Shrink?

As soon as you said 90 per hour I knew you were a fraud.

[LindaBee2]

See, if you would have posted a message that's calm, polite and intelligent, we would not have reacted the way we did.

You may not have chosen to be gay (Something that I'm seriously doubting, as I've heard of plenty of people who did choose to be gay), but you are choosing to participate in the lifestyle. By having sex with your boyfriend or doing things that are supposed to be confined to heterosexual, married couples, you are straying further and further away from God.

I have never, will never, and wil never date ANYONE who has participated in some sort of "rubbing it in your face" pride movement.

Thank goodness! I'm glad that there are more and more people with that exact train of thought.

I wonder how people would react if Christians had a Christian Pride Parade day? This is something I've been wondering ever since I became a B.A.C.

I dont even wear purple shirts and off color suits to work....it is more conservative black armani suits.

GASP!

You avoid purple?! Blasphemy!!

Just kidding. If you don't know already, my favorite color is purple.

Yeah, my hair may be a little better kept than others, my skin may be softer, my body may smell different, however I am not a walking gay advertisement.

What's your beauty secret? I've been trying to find something that won't frizz my hair or cause it to fall out. LOL

Before people know that I am gay, they know me as a person, a human being and a friend.

Problem is, BQO, you don't show them the nastier side of you. If you didn't notice already, people don't react too well to those who threaten other people, just because they don't agree with you. You succeeded not only in getting yourself kicked off of this board, but also in frightening several of the board members. If you had just acted like this from the start, maybe you wouldn't have been kicked to the curb.

BTW, I kind of had a feeling that Shrink was actually BQO. When I become suspicious, I'm usually right. Woman's intuition.

[LindaBee2]

<I>Hello Aineo....it's your friend, Big Queer Organist. </I>


Big Queer Organist=The Shrink?

As soon as you said 90 per hour I knew you were a fraud.

LOL I know! Shrinks charge at least $150.

Not that I've ever been to one. I talked to a high school counselor twice every month, and that never helped. Guess my mind's a little stubborn when it comes to that.

[The Shrink]

Actually, the SHRINK and I are two totally different people......I am using his screennames, I will sign my name to a post like I did previously.

You may not have chosen to be gay (Something that I'm seriously doubting, as I've heard of plenty of people who did choose to be gay), but you are choosing to participate in the lifestyle.

Right on the money Linda!!!

By having sex with your boyfriend or doing things that are supposed to be confined to heterosexual, married couples, you are straying further and further away from God.

I mentioned one sexual act in my entire postings. That was when I was younger and more confused. Sexual acts between anyone are sacred, it is a sign of full love and compassion. Something only reserved for a deep partnership or a marriage. I look at a male/male relationship is one of deep companionship.

GASP!

You avoid purple?! Blasphemy!!

Just kidding. If you don't know already, my favorite color is purple.

Purple is a good color....however my favorite color is blue. I mean come on...purple...maybe beautiful on a woman but hideous on a man.

What's your beauty secret? I've been trying to find something that won't frizz my hair or cause it to fall out. LOL

WEll, to be honest, I am 1/2 Greek 1/2 American-- I have smooth dark oily skin, and thick black hair on my head, the only downside to my body is that I am 5'6 with a 28 waist...which pretty much makes me look like I am about age 16 maximum.

Here is my formula for success....
SKINI normally use Neutrogena oil free face wash to keep the zits down, I use a neutrogena copper based formula to keep the skin hydrated at night and keep wrinkles free from appearing. I bathe with "Lava" brand soap...found for $2.99 for 2 bars at Wal-Mart...yes I shop there....this not only exfoliates but it leaves you feeling clean. In the mornings I use Nivea firming cream on arms and legs.

HAIR

I wash 2-3 times daily with Herbal Essences Normal shampoo, and condition with the yellow herbal Essences conditioner. Leave conditioner in for about 5 minutes. Style with a silicone based gel (found at www.siggers.com it is an Atlanta company, the same company that does my hair). This pretty much keeps it black shiny and hydrated....hydration is the key.

Problem is, BQO, you don't show them the nastier side of you. If you didn't notice already, people don't react too well to those who threaten other people, just because they don't agree with you. You succeeded not only in getting yourself kicked off of this board, but also in frightening several of the board members. If you had just acted like this from the start, maybe you wouldn't have been kicked to the curb.

Us concert organists get a lot of free time....I only perform Fri and Saturdays and Sundays....so I spend my weeks doing volunteer charity work. I am really a nice guy who IS a human, I can be bitter at times though. I was voted man of the year last year in my home town for work I did with impoverished children.

BTW, I kind of had a feeling that Shrink was actually BQO. When I become suspicious, I'm usually right. Woman's intuition.

I am not the Shrink, the Shrink is my golfing partner who actually is a shrink, He is one of the first members who welcomed me into his church when I began my ministry there, and I am hacking into his name and password (of course, he called me this morning first).[/b]

[Aineo]

Hello Aineo....it's your friend, Big Queer Organist. I am back again using my friend's screenname. Before you crap your depends, understand he wanted me to answer this question because I am well, Gay.



This article is definitely something I would agree with. Do you actually think I am PROUD to be gay? Do you think I am PROUD to have people turn their heads and whisper when I walk hand and hand with my boyfriend?

Hell no I am not!!! This sick disease which I have been stricken with is the last thing I would be proud of. My parents are not PROUD they turned out straight, therefore I am not PROUD I turned out gay.


I have never, will never, and wil never date ANYONE who has participated in some sort of "rubbing it in your face" pride movement.

So you ask now...how are you "out" in church. It is not like I have a banner across the gallery organ saying "gay organist plays here" and my boys choir does not wear rainbow colored robes. I dont even wear purple shirts and off color suits to work....it is more conservative black armani suits.

Yeah, my hair may be a little better kept than others, my skin may be softer, my body may smell different, however I am not a walking gay advertisement.

Before people know that I am gay, they know me as a person, a human being and a friend.

So my response to your post......

This is about the most reasonable post you have put up. In fact, if you can find ther website for his movement I would not hesitate to donate money to his cause. I am definitely ANTI PRIDE, ANTI RAINBOW FLAG, and ANTI rubbing it in peoples' faces.

So your not proud of being gay, yet you promote the lifestyle to others who may want to change and can change with the help of a good professional counselor.

In all my years as an active gay man I never carried a banner, but I never denied who or what I was and I could have cared less what people thought. You on the other hand have to shower people with disrepect, stand on your degrees, and call other people names based on your lack of pride.

However, you have missed the major impact of this article, it has as much to do with admitting that most gay men are promisuous, can't maintain long term relationships, and that any society that accepts homosexuality as an alternate lifestyle is doomed.

You and Shrink had best enjoy your wealth and position while you can as it will soon end. God will not be mocked and you are both shaking your fists in His righteous face with the same attitude Satan had. You both have attempted to set your thrones above His.

Having you post under his screen name demonstrates to me that Shrink does not have the power of his convictions and is standing on money, degrees, position in the community, and an arrogant disregard for what any doctor should accept as his responsibility; help your patient achieve his stated goals.

So you don't wear purple; gray slacks, a lavender shirt with a blue blazer are worn by many straight men. Purple is actually considered a male color by interior designers and is the color of royalty. The early battle cry of the gay liberation front was not purple power it was "lavender power". Are you so insecure in your gayness that you have to wear dark clothes? Hey, many business men are moving away from the drab colors of tradition and adopting more pleasing colors in their clothing.

Any futher posts from you will be deleted and if Shrink lets you use his screen name again he will also be banned.

I would hope that The Shrink can show a bit of integrity on this board even if he can not address people here with the same respect he arrogantly demands for himself.

[The Shrink]

You accomplish nothing by banning anyone Bob, you will never ever rid the world of us. You cannot do it, why? because this is a public forum and until it is made private we will make up more nd more screennames.

You may not want the real truth spread all over your little perfect world you tried to create, but the truth will be spread.

[Aineo]

You accomplish nothing by banning anyone Bob, you will never ever rid the world of us. You cannot do it, why? because this is a public forum and until it is made private we will make up more nd more screennames.

You may not want the real truth spread all over your little perfect world you tried to create, but the truth will be spread.

I have suggested to the webmaster that all posters be required to furnish a verifiable email address other than a hotmail or other throw away email account prior to registration approval.

BQO you are really very transparent. This is your last post I will delete all futher posts from The Shrink and BQO.

I know I will never shut up hypocrits and gay theology proponants who deny Biblical truth, but I can control some of those posts on this forum.

Have a nice day and lets see how many more fantasies you can dream up while you plan your next move.

[The Shrink]

Post edited by Aineo!

[Aineo]

[quote="The Shrink"][/quote]Post deleted! I can either edit or delete. And I will continue to do so!

Good bye!

[LindaBee2]

Post deleted, because there's no point in responding to someone who's not here anymore.

[Lucio]

Even in classical antiquity, homosexuality was controversial, and despite the exaggerated claims of todays partisans, there was no place or period where it flourished in complete freedom
from moral opprobrium.

While I understand these weren't your actual words, Aineo, I would just like to point out that this statement is false. The Etoro of New Guinea were pro homosexual. In that culture, heterosexuality, not homosexuality, was limited.

[Aineo]

Ten to twenty percent of all tribes in Melanesia -- an Oceania region stretching 3,000 miles from Irian Jaya to Fiji -- have mandatory "boy-inseminating" practices, claims Herdt. Boys here are separated from their mothers when they are 7-14 years old, and installed in "bachelor's houses."

The Marind-anim of Southwest New Guinea -- who were ruthless headhunters -- give the boys to maternal uncles who "top" them in anal intercourse for six years. The nearby Jacquai tribe refers to the adult penetrator as "mo- e" (anus-father) and the receiving child as "mo-mog" (anus- son). Big Namba chiefs of the New Hebrides Islands have numerous boy lovers; the Keraki of the Papuan lowlands sodomize lads at a bull-roarer ceremony; and the Great Plateau Kaluli "engage" youths to older men selected by their fathers.

Although many boys tremble initially ("I felt afraid... the penises were enormous," recalls Kalutuo, a Sambian from the Eastern Highlands) they all adjust quickly, because they believe semen is an elixir for manhood.

http://www.mrcranky.com/movies/hollywoo ... e/191.html

The boys are forced into homosexual activity much like Spartan youth who were artifically segregated at age 7 to be trained as warriors. This is not "natural selection" but a practice based on myths. You can appeal to uneducated cultures to justify a lot of practices civilized societies reject. Even the Greeks did not allow sodomizing youth (other than slaves) and any Greek citizen who submitted to passive anal sex was punished and could loose his citizen status.

[Lucio]

I don't recall claiming the Etoro society was morally justified, just that they were pro homosexual.

[Aineo]

I don't recall claiming the Etoro society was morally justified, just that they were pro homosexual.

If you consider child sex abuse by fathers pro homosexual I guess you are correct; however I consider it pedophilia.

[AngelBaby]

This message deleted since posting the same message on multiple threads is a violation of our posting rules.

Read those rules AngelBaby or your posting privileges will be terminated.

[Rob]

That article is nothing more than media grabbing garbage!

No, I do not agree with the overtness displayed by pro-gays, and some of the stupid things that are done in the name of equality, but none the less, this article only attacks the media's view of homosexuality.

And to believe that the world cannot change is ludacris at best. Obviously this guy knows nothing of history, even though he leads us to believe that history has shown no major change. The world has constantly changed, and has become better and worse, but none the less there has been change from early Mesopotamia to Rome and beyond.

I, quite frankly, am sick of people throwing around this crap that gay people are more promiscuous, and therefore I am. Are they so blinded that they don't see the heterosexual articles in magazines, many of which include tips to cheating as well! Heterosexual society is just as promiscuous as Homosexual society. Do you actually have any idea of how many straight couples are having affairs? No, because it isn't being put into a poll, and perhaps straight people are better at hiding it. I dunno.

As for long-term relationships: I know of a great many couples (married/non-married) who's actual relationship ended quite some time before it became 'official'. And if you think about it, how many marriages fall apart years, emotionally and sexually, before anyone acknowleges it. Plus, what's to say that I am incapable of a long-term relationship.

Quite frankly, I am sick of seeing the promiscous side of gay society on T.V. I haven't seen enought of what being gay is really about (except for Six Feet Under - It goes much deeper it seems), but instead am shown people that are nothing like myself or the gay people I know. And this crap is quite responsible for this idea that we are promiscuos vermon.

And I have even less time for the unsatiable demands and infantile caterwauling of my radical brothers and sisters who want to make the whole world their closet.

I don't want the world to be my closet! I put clothes in my closet, and have lived in there long enough... besides ther isn't enough room for everyone . The point is, that I want to be able to be a part of a world that isn't going to care if I am holding hands with another man. But if anything, Mr.McKellar is only saying that we should stay in our closets and never try to be a part of society.

Robert

[Aineo]

Per the CDC gay men are 5 (syphilis) to 5,000 (HIV) times more likely to contract STD's and the average lifespan of gay men is 45 years, which is about 27 years less than the average straight man (72 years).

We live in a heterocentric world and straight promiscuity is winked at, even by the church. The Bible states that any marriage after a divorce for any reason is adultery. The divorce rate for professed Christian's is 2% higher than non-Christians with Falwell's denomination the Southern Baptist Church having the second highest divorce rate. Approximately 33% of all straight adults in America are in their second, third, etc. marriage.

Rob, you may be sick and tired of the gay community being pictured as promiscuous but the facts are they are. The few monogamous long term relationships in the gay community are overshadowed by the gay activists who promote such stupidity as parading with signs that read "Celebrate Sodomy" and the excesses seen in some gay pride parades; the riots in major cities when local health departments closed down gay baths due to the AIDS pandemic, signs carried by activists that read “We deserve our sex”; etc. If your sick and tired of the perception that gays are more promiscuous blame it on the gay community not the general population.

[Satanisfreedom]

[quote="LindaBee2"]See, if you would have posted a message that's calm, polite and intelligent, we would not have reacted the way we did.

You may not have chosen to be gay (Something that I'm seriously doubting, as I've heard of plenty of people who did choose to be gay), but you are choosing to participate in the lifestyle. By having sex with your boyfriend or doing things that are supposed to be confined to heterosexual, married couples, you are straying further and further away from God.



Im bi buddy i did not chose what I am attracted to so if you dont mind...dont be such a know it all and say you doubt something someone says...please...thank you...btw...purple is the BEST color in the WORLD!

[Blake.L.]

Do you actually think I am PROUD to be gay? Do you think I am PROUD to have people turn their heads and whisper when I walk hand and hand with my boyfriend?

Hell no I am not!!! This sick disease which I have been stricken with is the last thing I would be proud of. My parents are not PROUD they turned out straight, therefore I am not PROUD I turned out gay.

well, for what it's worth, i am proud of you.

[Blake.L.]

See, if you would have posted a message that's calm, polite and intelligent, we would not have reacted the way we did.

oh shut up and take some responsibility for yourself. you sound like a child or a dependent fishwife - "look what the big bad gay man made me doooo!!!". its always someone elses fault, isn't it.

You may not have chosen to be gay (Something that I'm seriously doubting, as I've heard of plenty of people who did choose to be gay), but you are choosing to participate in the lifestyle. By having sex with your boyfriend or doing things that are supposed to be confined to heterosexual, married couples, you are straying further and further away from God.

oh according to who or what? your own ideas, no one elses. you choose to believe this truth and so it is your truth and your truth alone. it must be very difficult and joyless to live in a world where you probably feel many, many people are "straying further and further away from God." Well, guess what honey! not everyone feels they are straying from god. i would rather be a good gay person than a judgmental, shame-throwing, blaming Christian any day of the week. i certainly know which one brings more good to the world on a daily basis, and it ain't the Christian.

I wonder how people would react if Christians had a Christian Pride Parade day? This is something I've been wondering ever since I became a B.A.C.

.

hell, the way Christians bandy about their beliefs with such lack of restraint, EVERYDAY is Christian PRide day. it makes me ill. quiet belief is the only way to go when it comes to belief. if you feel like everyone has to know about it or live exactly the way you do, and you feel like you have to convert them you don't really have that much faith in what you believe, regardless of how much you feel like you do because your actions show otherwise. its as simple as that. all public displays of belief show is not your degree of faith but rather how insecure you are in that faith and how much you need other people to validate you.

[Blake.L.]

Per the CDC gay men are 5 (syphilis) to 5,000 (HIV) times more likely to contract STD's and the average lifespan of gay men is 45 years, which is about 27 years less than the average straight man (72 years).

We live in a heterocentric world and straight promiscuity is winked at, even by the church. The Bible states that any marriage after a divorce for any reason is adultery. The divorce rate for professed Christian's is 2% higher than non-Christians with Falwell's denomination the Southern Baptist Church having the second highest divorce rate. Approximately 33% of all straight adults in America are in their second, third, etc. marriage.

Rob, you may be sick and tired of the gay community being pictured as promiscuous but the facts are they are. The few monogamous long term relationships in the gay community are overshadowed by the gay activists who promote such stupidity as parading with signs that read "Celebrate Sodomy" and the excesses seen in some gay pride parades; the riots in major cities when local health departments closed down gay baths due to the AIDS pandemic, signs carried by activists that read “We deserve our sex”; etc. If your sick and tired of the perception that gays are more promiscuous blame it on the gay community not the general population.

i think such an assumption feeds quite nicely into the hands of the homophobic and self-loathing homosexuals such as yourself, don't you? what is wrong with consenting and safe promiscuity? staight males are equally as promiscuous but no one talks about it or heralds it in the press because its an accepted fact. for better or for worse, it is accepted. why have double standards? and if some homosexuals want to trumpet it from the roof tops, so what. deal with it. its not going to go away. if you want to spend your life boiling in hatred and self-loathing, then you go for it. nobody cares.

homosexuals are not heterosexuals. why should they live their lives according to heterosexual conventions? to make you feel more comfortable? forget it. this world doesn't exist for your comfort. get used to it.

[Aineo]

And your point is what? That sex for sexual pleasure is common to mankind? I know this to be true. However, you statement that straight men are just as promiscuous as gay men denies published fact; facts published in the Advocate and other gay sources. As to safe sexual practices I wonder what my brother’s partner would have to saw about condoms breaking since he is now HIV+ because a condom broke? Do you have “bug chasers” in Australia? Have you heard this term before? It applies to gay men seeking to become HIV+ as a status symbol. As weird as this may seem to some people the phenomenon exists in the gay community.

homosexuals are not heterosexuals. why should they live their lives according to heterosexual conventions? to make you feel more comfortable? forget it. this world doesn't exist for your comfort. get used to it.

This world does not exist for your comfort either, so you had best get used to it. What I shared in the post you quoted is fact, which you have not rebutted. Why? Does the truth scare you? I see that you ignored what I posted regarding heterosexuals is there a reason you decided to ignore this part of my post?

If I have not made my position clear then I will state it for you in plain and simple English. I do not insist that any gay man or lesbian woman change their sexual orientation so I can be comfortable with them as a person. I share good information so that my gay friends can be prepared for reality. If you can't stand the truth then go back to your Pollyannaish world and live in ignorance.

[Blake.L.]

And your point is what? That sex for sexual pleasure is common to mankind? I know this to be true. However, you statement that straight men are just as promiscuous as gay men denies published fact; facts published in the Advocate and other gay sources. As to safe sexual practices I wonder what my brother’s partner would have to saw about condoms breaking since he is now HIV+ because a condom broke? Do you have “bug chasers” in Australia? Have you heard this term before? It applies to gay men seeking to become HIV+ as a status symbol. As weird as this may seem to some people the phenomenon exists in the gay community.

homosexuals are not heterosexuals. why should they live their lives according to heterosexual conventions? to make you feel more comfortable? forget it. this world doesn't exist for your comfort. get used to it.

This world does not exist for your comfort either, so you had best get used to it. What I shared in the post you quoted is fact, which you have not rebutted. Why? Does the truth scare you? I see that you ignored what I posted regarding heterosexuals is there a reason you decided to ignore this part of my post?

If I have not made my position clear then I will state it for you in plain and simple English. I do not insist that any gay man or lesbian woman change their sexual orientation so I can be comfortable with them as a person. I share good information so that my gay friends can be prepared for reality. If you can't stand the truth then go back to your Pollyannaish world and live in ignorance.

my pollyannaish world ended when i was 3 years old. i wonder if yours will ever end. nothing you have said is new. i know my position of letting others just live their lives and loving them anyway is scary and radical for you and i'm sorry if the idea of tolerance for all upset you. your "facts" are contravertible. easily cancelled out by other "facts". all a person can do is live according to their heart and their conscience. facts simply don't cover it when it comes to something as subjective as ones personal sexual preference. that is something you badly need to learn.

let it all out, aintchu. let all your frustration and self-loathing and fear out. scream, shout and rant until you are blue in the face, if it helps you feel better. just let it alllll out. everything will be all right in the long run, you know. everything will be fine.

[Aineo]

my pollyannaish world ended when i was 3 years old. i wonder if yours will ever end. nothing you have said is new. i know my position of letting others just live their lives and loving them anyway is scary and radical for you and i'm sorry if the idea of tolerance for all upset you. your "facts" are contravertible. easily cancelled out by other "facts". all a person can do is live according to their heart and their conscience. facts simply don't cover it when it comes to something as subjective as ones personal sexual preference. that is something you badly need to learn.

let it all out, aintchu. let all your frustration and self-loathing and fear out. scream, shout and rant until you are blue in the face, if it helps you feel better. just let it alllll out. everything will be all right in the long run, you know. everything will be fine.

You are the one ranting, screaming, shouting and just generally making a fool of yourself. I will repeat I accept people for who they are and do not judge them for what they do.

The facts of how sexual orientation is developed is part of psychology and to ignore this is simply to ignore reality. Those who are seeking help is leaving gay life need to know they can change and where they can find help in achieving a personal goal. The fact that gay men are at greater risk of medical and psychological problems is not just my opinion but researched truth.

For someone who claims to believe in letting people make their own choices you are doing your darndest to comdemn and judge me as a person; a person you do not know.

[doodlewacker]

PRIDE <noun> a high opinion of ones self; dignity and self-respect; satisfaction in something well done.

Once again I find myself a little ambivalent in writing about my "pride" in terms of my "gay pride." I dont feel proud that I am gay. Maybe its because I don't feel like I had a choice or that it was something I did to be proud of. What I am proud of is the person I have made myself to be. Now, while I don't feel "proud to be gay," I'm also not ashamed to be gay either. Being gay is just a part of who I am. For example, I wouldn't say I'm proud to have brown hair, or that I'm proud to be 5'7," or that I'm proud that I have two beautiful green eyes. Anyway, you get my point. If we truly believe that being gay is something genetic and not something we worked towards, then how can it be something to be proud of? Am I proud that I have a lover of the same sex? Am I proud that I like to wear clothes of the opposite sex? I don't think pride has anything to do with it.

Now, after saying this I must state that I do understand the need to be heard. Especially as I get older and realize that myself, and the person I choose to love (and there have been many!) are not afforded the same rights as heterosexual couples. Maybe if society didn't put people in two different categories, gay or straight, then we wouldn't feel the need to be so proud of whom we sleep with. Because as far as I'm concerned, that is the only difference between me and my straight counterpart, Brad Pitt.

Let's face it: we all know how fabulous we really are. The best dance clubs, gay! The best fashion designers, gay! The best movie stars, gay! The best parties, gay! The most beautiful people, gay! I hate when I hear all the protests the gay community has when some anti-gay group suggests, "all gay people should live on their own island!" I say LET'S GO! When and where?!? Imagine how fun that island would be! No more women with blue eye shadow, men who wear black socks with sandals, or clueless relatives constantly asking, "when are you going to meet the right girl?" To which I usually flippantly reply, "I am the right girl!" Now that island would be a true paradise. But alas, I don't think that dream is ever going to come true, Dorothy. Instead we will be forced to mingle among the unbent trying to convince them we are not going anywhere and that we are not out to eat their first born male (well, maybe if he's cute).

So I guess I am not so much proud to be gay, as I am proud to be me. And yes, being me is being gay, with brown hair, 5'7 and stunning green eyes. And whether you wear your pride on your sleeve and strut it down some main street USA or quietly let your voice be heard, be proud of who you are and remember, they may win some of the fights, but they will never win the battle.

Till next time, Happy Gay Pride!

[Rill]

PRIDE <noun> a high opinion of ones self; dignity and self-respect; satisfaction in something well done.

Once again I find myself a little ambivalent in writing about my "pride" in terms of my "gay pride." I dont feel proud that I am gay. Maybe its because I don't feel like I had a choice or that it was something I did to be proud of. What I am proud of is the person I have made myself to be. Now, while I don't feel "proud to be gay," I'm also not ashamed to be gay either. Being gay is just a part of who I am. For example, I wouldn't say I'm proud to have brown hair, or that I'm proud to be 5'7," or that I'm proud that I have two beautiful green eyes. Anyway, you get my point. If we truly believe that being gay is something genetic and not something we worked towards, then how can it be something to be proud of? Am I proud that I have a lover of the same sex? Am I proud that I like to wear clothes of the opposite sex? I don't think pride has anything to do with it.

i completely agree. i've never understood being proud of something one had no control over. i've also never considered my homosexuality to be that big a part of my identity either. it makes me attracted to women. aside from that it has little bearing on my personality as a whole. however, i think in the instance of "gay pride," the word pride is used primarily as an antonym of "ashamed" rather than as, say "satisfaction in something well done."

Now, after saying this I must state that I do understand the need to be heard. Especially as I get older and realize that myself, and the person I choose to love (and there have been many!) are not afforded the same rights as heterosexual couples. Maybe if society didn't put people in two different categories, gay or straight, then we wouldn't feel the need to be so proud of whom we sleep with. Because as far as I'm concerned, that is the only difference between me and my straight counterpart, Brad Pitt.

i've always been convinced that if society didn't make a big deal, the whole uber-pride thing would die down and people could just be people. and that goes for anything, not just homosexuality. there would be no need for "gay pride" if gays didn't feel that society expects them to be ashamed.

Let's face it: we all know how fabulous we really are. The best dance clubs, gay! The best fashion designers, gay! The best movie stars, gay! The best parties, gay! The most beautiful people, gay! I hate when I hear all the protests the gay community has when some anti-gay group suggests, "all gay people should live on their own island!" I say LET'S GO! When and where?!? Imagine how fun that island would be! No more women with blue eye shadow, men who wear black socks with sandals, or clueless relatives constantly asking, "when are you going to meet the right girl?" To which I usually flippantly reply, "I am the right girl!" Now that island would be a true paradise. But alas, I don't think that dream is ever going to come true, Dorothy. Instead we will be forced to mingle among the unbent trying to convince them we are not going anywhere and that we are not out to eat their first born male (well, maybe if he's cute).

lol. i wouldn't mind living on that island.

So I guess I am not so much proud to be gay, as I am proud to be me. And yes, being me is being gay, with brown hair, 5'7 and stunning green eyes. And whether you wear your pride on your sleeve and strut it down some main street USA or quietly let your voice be heard, be proud of who you are and remember, they may win some of the fights, but they will never win the battle.

Till next time, Happy Gay Pride!

good on ya for being proud to be you. it's good to see people who are proud of themselves in a world where so many are so self-loathing and lack confidence in themselves. and thanks for the laugh. i haven't read many of these posts yet, but most have been pretty heavy and humorless, so it's nice to come across one that makes me laugh. and not in a derisive way.

[Eshto]

This article is so... pointless.

If there are gays and lesbians who don't want to be politically active, then...

Why are they trying to form a coalition?!?!?!?!?!?

This is just like how my dad would watch TV for hours and scream and complain about the show he was watching.

It's like... um... I dunno... change the channel...?

-E

[Aineo]

This article is so... pointless.

If there are gays and lesbians who don't want to be politically active, then...

Why are they trying to form a coalition?!?!?!?!?!?

This is just like how my dad would watch TV for hours and scream and complain about the show he was watching.

It's like... um... I dunno... change the channel...?

-E

Did you read the whole article or is this just a knee-jerk reaction to a gay man who opposes gay unions?

[biochemrex]

Indeed there is no way that Gay is a narrow Church. Or a peaceful united one.
It is pretty much one of those imaginary coalitions like Ethnics, etc which various unelected individuals pretend to represent.
What is an urgent need for our culture is to do an objective scientific survey to catelogue the variious kinds of people who say they are Gay, or say they are Homosexual, but not Gay, etc. It is just so confusing and this confusion is I think deliberate to so confuse people that they juist sit there confused and helpless so they cannot decide what to do while the world is so totally changed round them.
I have made an intense study and there can be no doubt that the majority of this category are strongly against Gay marriage. One can see that it might appeal to pedophiles, but it may be that most "Gays" are not pedophiles as most people think? We just do not know. All we are fed is propaganda.
It is impossible to make any moral desisions on this matter until we actually know what is involved.

[Aineo]

There has been a plethora of studies into homosexuality and the causes of homosexuality that date back to the 1930's. So I fail to see what you mean by:

It is impossible to make any moral desisions on this matter until we actually know what is involved.

Not all pedophiles are boy lovers, in fact based on numbers alone most pedophiles like girls, not boys. To even put pedophile and gay or homosexual in the same sentence indicates a total lack of understanding either condition.

Moral decisions are not based on psychology or sociology they are based on God's truth.

[onepath22]

They're both nasty either way. Being gay is a sickness, a crime against the laws of GOD. Homosexuality has no other purpose than one's own sexual fufillment, because there is no way a homosexual can produce his/her's own biological family without a person of the opposite sex. Pedophile have a sickness also, so basically they are both the same, and they are both grevious sins in the eyes of God. The fact that one would even argue that homosexuality is less disgraceful" then pedophilia proves that the morality of this world is at an all time low.

[Aineo]

Tell me onepath22, who gave you the right or the authority to judge anyone other than yourself? Your analysis of the gay community falls far short of being accurate. There are many married couples who cannot have children for one reason or another so are they grievous sinners?

What does love your neighbor as yourself mean to you? Is the gay community your neighbor?

1 Corinthians 5:9-13

9 I wrote you in my letter not to associate with immoral people; 10 I did not at all mean with the immoral people of this world, or with the covetous and swindlers, or with idolaters; for then you would have to go out of the world. 11 But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he should be an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler-- not even to eat with such a one. 12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church? 13 But those who are outside, God judges. Remove the wicked man from among yourselves. NAS

[onepath22]

Oh, do not compare a homosexual to a barren woman. I homosexual has a CHOICE to have a child by simply choosing to give up a life of sin. I couple who cannot have children has no choice. Two different situations. You seem to be an advocate for homosexuality. I don't go around telling homosexuals that they are nasty, because frankly it isn't my business and I don't really care. People can do whatever they want and only God can judge. But God also gave me the ability to have an opinion, just as you exercise freely on so many of these threads.

[onepath22]

I'm sorry, but it's just nasty to want to have anal sex and engage in what mostly male homosexuals engage in. If God wanted us to do that, he wouldn't have made that "area" a waste disposal shute. There always seems to be something in the past of homosexuals that creates this attraction to the same sex, it is not something biological that they cannot control. Aineo you changed, and I know of others who sought help, so it is possible for everyone else to also.

[Aineo]

Hey, your the one who brought up lack of procreation not me. Also straights perform the same sex acts gays do so if you are going to bash one community do you bash the majority?

Tell me onepath22, what about all the gay Muslims and what does the Qur'an have to say about gays?

[onepath22]

Well the Quran says that homosexuality is wrong and so is sodomy. But even those who make the mistake of living the life of a homosexual or engaging in haram sexual acts can repent and ask for forgiveness, and make an effort to change.

[Aineo]

Well the Quran says that homosexuality is wrong and so is sodomy. But even those who make the mistake of living the life of a homosexual or engaging in haram sexual acts can repent and ask for forgiveness, and make an effort to change.

You did not answer my question. What does the Qur'an teach about homosexuals and what is Islam doing about all the gay Muslims throughout the world? You are quick to judge Christianity while ignoring what is going on in your own faith.

[onepath22]

Did I say anything about Christianity? No. I commented on Homosexuality. There are homosexuals in all walks of life, Christians, Muslims, Jews, you name it. There probably are some gay muslims out there. I don't know any but I'm sure there are, and they have to deal with Allah when he asks them why they committed these sins. In Islam if a man is invovled in homosexual acts he is punished and told to repent, same for a woman. Do you agree with homosexuality or what? If you are supposed to "love your neighbors" why do you keep attacking muslims? Practice what you preach. I'll admit it, I don't agree with homosexuality, sodomy, or anything Allah tells me not to do, but I also believe people can ask for forgiveness--and be forgiven.

[Aineo]

Did I say anything about Christianity? No. I commented on Homosexuality. There are homosexuals in all walks of life, Christians, Muslims, Jews, you name it. There probably are some gay muslims out there. I don't know any but I'm sure there are, and they have to deal with Allah when he asks them why they committed these sins. In Islam if a man is invovled in homosexual acts he is punished and told to repent, same for a woman. Do you agree with homosexuality or what? If you are supposed to "love your neighbors" why do you keep attacking muslims? Practice what you preach. I'll admit it, I don't agree with homosexuality, sodomy, or anything Allah tells me not to do, but I also believe people can ask for forgiveness--and be forgiven.

Love your neighbor does not equate to accepting false doctrines or false religions. Loving your neighbor equates to treating all people as you want to be treated. Loving your neighbor does not give us the right to denigrate them or judge them as people.

Now what is the punishment in the Qur'an for homosexuality? Simply stating that homosexuality and sodomy are both wrong is a teaching found in many faiths and by those who have no faith.

[onepath22]

Yall just nasty..I'm sorry it's just nasty.

[Aineo]

Yall just nasty..I'm sorry it's just nasty.

I agree but what is nastier homosexuality or suicide bombers who kill innocent men, women, and children so they can go to your paradise to be served by virgins and young boys? What is the purpose of the young boys?

[biochemrex]

There have been a few studies, but very few compared to the importance of the subject and most are corrupt - faking data to produce political results.
Currently the key political objective of Gays is the fight for the right to be able to adopt children. Their preference seems to be for boys.
the Koran teaches that Gays should be killed. there are indeed many Gay Muslims. They have their Forums.

[Geshtinnanna]

There have been a few studies, but very few compared to the importance of the subject and most are corrupt - faking data to produce political results.
Currently the key political objective of Gays is the fight for the right to be able to adopt children. Their preference seems to be for boys.
the Koran teaches that Gays should be killed. there are indeed many Gay Muslims. They have their Forums.

Can you show me your statistical data showing the preference is boys? Because you know around the world heterosexual couples also prefer having boys. So it seems the gays and straights have something in common.

[Aineo]

There have been a few studies, but very few compared to the importance of the subject and most are corrupt - faking data to produce political results.
Currently the key political objective of Gays is the fight for the right to be able to adopt children. Their preference seems to be for boys.
the Koran teaches that Gays should be killed. there are indeed many Gay Muslims. They have their Forums.

There have been a plethora of superficial anecdoctal studies that have been used by the media and gay activists to support a genetic cause for homosexuality, however no molecular geneticist has agreed with any of these studies. I would not go so far to to state the studies were faked that is unless you have information that backs up your accusation.

Gay couples have been pushing for the right to adopt for years so your statement is false, as is your assumption that only gay men are pushing to adopt and then only boys.

Tell me biochemrex what is the basis for your hate filled posts?

[biochemrex]

I hate only lies.
Many Gays are "straight acting" are married to women, so we have no data on normal males.
I do not believe that there is any genetic cause for "homosexuality" and I believe that it is a preventable birth defect.
Faked studies. It is easy to prove that there studied which claim a genetic cause are faked since the results do not accord witha genetic cause. With identical twins you would have identical outcomes if it was a gentic cause. This is not so. If it was a genetic cause the defect would soon be bred out.

[Geshtinnanna]

I hate only lies.
Many Gays are "straight acting" are married to women, so we have no data on normal males.
I do not believe that there is any genetic cause for "homosexuality" and I believe that it is a preventable birth defect.
Faked studies. It is easy to prove that there studied which claim a genetic cause are faked since the results do not accord witha genetic cause. With identical twins you would have identical outcomes if it was a gentic cause. This is not so. If it was a genetic cause the defect would soon be bred out.

How can it NOt be genetic but be a gentic birth defect?
Just answer that question factually, please.

[biochemrex]

A genetic birth defect is caused by a faulty gene and if the defect can breed then this defect is passed on to all descendents.

[Geshtinnanna]

A genetic birth defect is caused by a faulty gene and if the defect can breed then this defect is passed on to all descendents.

But you just said and I quote:

I do not believe that there is any genetic cause for "homosexuality"

If it is a defect gene than isn't still caused by a gene being defective?
Seriously. Stop.

[Aineo]

I hate only lies.
Many Gays are "straight acting" are married to women, so we have no data on normal males.
I do not believe that there is any genetic cause for "homosexuality" and I believe that it is a preventable birth defect.
Faked studies. It is easy to prove that there studied which claim a genetic cause are faked since the results do not accord witha genetic cause. With identical twins you would have identical outcomes if it was a gentic cause. This is not so. If it was a genetic cause the defect would soon be bred out.

I have yet to read any peer reviewed studies that scientifically show homosexuality is genetic. Now if you have information that indicates otherwise trot them out.

[biochemrex]

Most birth defects are not caused by defective genes. Most are caused by external toxins, lack of oxygen due to bungled birth, stress in the mother, starvation, etc.
In the case of "homosexuality" and perhaps all sexual aberations of a psychological kind, it is caused by low androgen levels in the mother - due to stress. With the lesbains - which are very rare it is caused by adrenal hyperplasia - which is very rare.

[Geshtinnanna]

In the case of "homosexuality" and perhaps all sexual aberations of a psychological kind, it is caused by low androgen levels in the mother - due to stress. With the lesbains - which are very rare it is caused by adrenal hyperplasia - which is very rare.

Where did you get this fact from?

[Aineo]

In the case of "homosexuality" and perhaps all sexual aberations of a psychological kind, it is caused by low androgen levels in the mother - due to stress. With the lesbains - which are very rare it is caused by adrenal hyperplasia - which is very rare.

Where did you get this fact from?

I would also like an answer to Geshtinnanna's question. You need to site your sources of information.

[biochemrex]

I would not be constantly demanded to cite my sources if what I said was anti biblical pro Gay would I? So why is this demand put on me because I am not for Gay Power? Sex and the Brain, Braun Sex Scientoific america. Please tread them before you ask me again. Keith

[On My Way]

I would not be constantly demanded to cite my sources if what I said was anti biblical pro Gay would I? So why is this demand put on me because I am not for Gay Power? Sex and the Brain, Braun Sex Scientoific america. Please tread them before you ask me again. Keith

Keith, buddy, relax,,,
Fine you have continually qouted your sources of those 2 books.

But in this post here

Most birth defects are not caused by defective genes. Most are caused by external toxins, lack of oxygen due to bungled birth, stress in the mother, starvation, etc.
In the case of "homosexuality" and perhaps all sexual aberations of a psychological kind, it is caused by low androgen levels in the mother - due to stress. With the lesbains - which are very rare it is caused by adrenal hyperplasia - which is very rare.

This is your entire post from 4 replies ago
Where is the source? Are we to magicaly assume that it is from one of your two books? I think not, nor is it fair to get all huffy when asked to back up something you state as fact.

OK? OK!

[biochemrex]

I do not expect you to have magical powers. All I expect from you is simple common sense. I offered references which give an extended amount of information on the subject. In fact those books I mentioned have each a huge biblography on the subject in them and I assumed that you would realise that I was offering these as the main reference material i was using for all my viewsd.
So why do you not just read them, then you wouyld have some real knowledge on the subject. However i am very familiar with the extreme hateful response of gays to even the slightest bit of criticism/ the Gays are taking over all our churches and booting us pout - stealign the property then when we complain they say that we are full of hate, have no tolerance fo diversiry etc . Biut it is they who ar ehate filled. They hare the bible becuase it does not endorse theye way of l;ife an fhtey ahrte normal peop;el because they despise everytng normal.

[On My Way]

Uhmm Yeah.. OK.... shure..
I have lots of common sense, so everything you write and post is based on these two books and for future reference this will be cited as your source, these two books. Noted and filed away!

Now are we going to have a system that says book 1 and book 2 just so we know which reference book you mean? cause that would be cool

Everyone clear on this?

[Aineo]

I would not be constantly demanded to cite my sources if what I said was anti biblical pro Gay would I? So why is this demand put on me because I am not for Gay Power? Sex and the Brain, Braun Sex Scientoific america. Please tread them before you ask me again. Keith

Scientific American is not a professional science journal, it is a publication similar to Readers Digest. Now I will again ask you for peer reviewed studies that back up your opinions.

The icons gay apologists just love to quote and quote out of context are Dean Hamer and Simon LeVay. Both men as gay scientists who have publicly stated their is no scientific evidence that homosexuality is genetic and both men has publicly stated that homosexuality is probably caused by a combination of biology, environment, and personality.

What your main references have not taken into consideration is that behavior can contribute to changes in brain structure, which has been demonstrated by how the brains of the blind change as they learn to communicate by the use of braille. No real research has been done on how a learned behavior can also affect such things as the blink response as well as other brain activity that is used to show that gay men have female brains.

Your research is inadequate, superficial and based on prejudice not science or Scripture.

[biochemrex]

Since you are obviously not going to read the books it is pointless to say anymore about them and in any case I have no interest in changing your opinions since I am well aware that no evidence would shift your fixed position, however I am not into conversion. I am into conversation. I want to learn form you. I want to know why you think the way you do and why you hate everyone so much. Perhaps If I was born like you I might be resentful, but it hardly helps your position when you are such great bullys alienating everyone.. Has it occured to you that you are a tiny minory who are only being allowed to get away with so much because people still have not quite realised that you are real. That they do not like you and never will and that they think you are a bad influence opn their children.

How many heads of State, Monarchs, Presidents, Prime Ministers, etc are Gay? How many think you should be encouraged? How popular are the churches that have let you take over? Is the leader of the largest Christain Church in the world, the Pope pro Gay? Is he ever likely to be?

It is only a matter of time and the tests will be done then it will not just be millions like me who know the truth, but everyone will and then what will you do? You will not only lose all the proiviliges you have been granted you will be far worse than before this Gay Power movement started! Before that people toleranted yopu becaus ethey did not know you existed and you were discrete, but now everyone knows about you do you think they will allow you to creep back into your closet?
You have no army. You are all bluff. You do not even have many homosexuals behind you. Most wish you would shut up as they fear that with your demands you will ruin it for all the rest of them.

Surely I don't have to tell you that? But what I want to know is "what do you want?" Do you want a pogrom directed against you? Do you want to be presecuted?
I note this new Gay Movie "Broken back Mountain about a pair of Gay cowboys in the 1950s. The Gay Press is in raptures over it, but I hardly think it is going to be a "Passion of the Christ" block buster?
From what I have read of it it seems to be a nostalgic presentation of the 1950s when Gays did not have the unbridled freedom they enjoy today. Is this what you want? To be hunted out and burned at the stake? Well it seems that this is what you are trying to provoke, so what is it guys?

[Aineo]

Why should I read one person's opinion when I have spent almost 2 decades reading all the scientific information I can find on homosexuality and the what causes this condition? My sources of information range from the Bible to Hamer, LeVay, the Journal of Nature, the Journal of General Psychiatry to what the media has published concerning all the superficial pro-gay studies that don't prove anything except materialistic liberals are out to normalize a sin.

I am not pro-homosexuality I am however pro Biblical Christianity, which tells me to love the gay community regardless of how they treat me or what so-called homophobic Christian leaders have to say in their attempt to advance their socio-political agenda.

Your brought up the Pope. Do you know what John Paul II had to say about the gay community? He said the being gay in not a sin. He said that same gender sexual relationships are sin. He also said that changing ones sexual orientation is probably harmful to the person. In other words he agreed with the American Psychiatric Associations totally unscientific assessment of reparative therapy. So before you throw what the Pope had to say at me I suggest your actually read what he did say.

I have yet to take over any church so your personal attack is nothing more than your bigotry overloading your butt.

Now, either post something that actually discusses homosexuality and its possible causes and treatments or take your hate filled prejudice and homophobia to some other board that refuses to practice Biblical Christianity and what Jesus actually taught.

As to your question concerning gay heads of state, based on your own assessment of the sexuality of heads of state who commit adultery your question seems odd. The list of adulterous heads of state is extremely long and can be found in every nation on the face of the earth.

And BTW, before you judge those in other countries I suggest you clean up the church in Australia. Some of our past and most rabid pro-gay posters are Aussie's. Maybe you should check out The Adventures of Priscilla, Queen of the Desert or the adventures of an Aussie drag queen, or how about the gay overtones of the Mad Max movies? Austrialia is not exactly in the forefront of fighting the gay agenda.