Muslim & Christian Discussion ForumCalling Aineo - Christian-Muslim DialougeYou are demonstrating the logical fallacy known as Ignoratio elenchi so I will offer my greatest apologies if I decline from answering what you consider to be the crux of the issue ay hand. Your point here proves nothing and is totally irrelevant to what is being discussed. Again you seem to be ignorant of the facts being presented before you. As I have stated “El” was not just used or viewed as a generic term for ‘god’, but it was a divine name in which the God of Israel revealed in reference to Himself. In the Hebrew of Genesis 17:1 we find that Yahweh reveals himself to Abraham as “El Shaddai.” In Genesis 35:10 Yahweh personally renames Jacob with the epithet “Yisraa’el,” I.e. Isra’el. The New Testament records that another name for Jesus was ‘Emanu’el’ (Matthew 1:23). Furthermore, Jesus supposedly called on “El” when he was suffering on the cross (Holy Bible, Matthew 27:46 & Mark 15:34). My conclusion is based on the following evidence: I revealed myself to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob as Ēl Shaddāi, Exodus 6.2–3: “The God of the Bible revealed the names by which he wishes to be addressed and worshipped (YHWH, Elohim, Adonai, Theos, Kurios, etc.) the Jews were not allowed to make up their own names for God but were limited to revealed names.” - Robert A. Morey, Is Allah Just Another Name For God, pg. 2 - Wiining The Radical War Against Islam pg. 135. “…El is the oldest known name for the deity; it was used in varying forms by almost all Semitic peoples as a proper name for God... The patriarchs who also worshipped El, recognized Him as the one true God identified with Elohim and Yahweh who revealed Himself in different ways… - New Catholic Encyclopaedia, Vol. 5, p. 236. “…God revealed Himself to the patriarch’s not as Yahweh but as El Shaddai – an epithet (of unknown meaning ) …” - Encyclopaedia Britannica, 15th Edition, Vol. 10, page 303. “Despite the prominence of name elsewhere among the Semitic peoples, the god Il (El) appears to play a comparatively minor role in the South Arabian inscriptions. Some modern scholars have sought to explain this circumstance by equating Il with the moon god, but this opinion has not prevailed… El, or in a longer form of the same name, Ilah. His veneration at a very early stage is attested by His appearance in theophoric names, that is, personal names of which one element is a divine name (the Biblical name Gabriel is and example). Among nomadic tribes in particular, a residual sense of El as being the god par excellence remained until the time of Islam. - Encyclopedia Britannica Vol.1, pg. 1058, 15th Edition. ELOHIM (Plural of Eloah) One of the Hebrew names for God, of frequent occurrence in the Bible… -The Popular Encyclopaedia, Vol. V, pg. 146. Elohim … A divine name for the God of Israel, the plural form here being purged of its polytheistic meaning, and used as a plural of majesty. There are over 2500 occurrences in the Hebrew Bible, making it one of the most common divine names therein…. - The Cambridge Encyclopedia, pg. 373, third edition. The oldest name for God used in the Semitic world consists of but two letters, the consonant ‘l’ proceeded by a smooth breathing, which was pronounced ‘Il’ in ancient Babylonia, ‘El’ in ancient Israel… -Alfred Guillaume, Islam, p. 7 El, The supreme god of the pantheons of Phoenicia, Canaan, Syria , who forms a triad with his wife Asherat and his son Baal. He was a remote and all powerful god associated with the sky…El Elyon – In ancient Jerusalem, a name of El considered as the creator god. - Guide to the Gods, Marjorie Leach, p. 31. Yahweh or Jahweh, was regarded by the tribes of Israel as the creator of all things and the judge of the nations. He probably originated as a mountain god and was identified with El, the supreme deity of the Canaanite pantheon… - The Ultimate Encyclopaedia of Mythology, Arthur Cotterell and Rachel Storm, p. 329 El, Canaanite high god, El was identified with Yahweh in the Hebrew Bible. - p.419, Sarah Iles Johnston, Religion of the Ancient World, Harvard University Press. The god El, worshipped by Abraham and later identified with Yahweh, was the high god of the Canaanite pantheon…. - p.182, Sarah Iles Johnston, Religion of the Ancient World, Harvard University Press. The overwhelming evidence demonstrates that El was indeed a proper name for the G-d of Israel, scholars here even admit it to be “the oldest divine name for G-d.” Now, if you want to go ahead and argue and call every scholar here a liar, that’s up to you but I rather you be reasonable and take a close look at the evidence I have at my fingertips. Let us move on to your next point My use of western scholarship is certainly no attempt to obfuscate the discussion. What you have done here is a very clever form of the logical fallacy known as Ad-hominem. By suggesting that I am attempting obfuscate this discussion you have thereby called me a liar and a deceiver in a very subtle fashion. Only due to the fact that your position in this discussion has been undermined by a Muslim who you would have thought to rave and rant about such issues. To your surprise I am in deeper than you thought. Therefore you have resulted to the clever type of ad-hominems in order to save face. However, despite the smokescreen tatics you have used, the issue still stands. Is El a generic term for G-d or is it a divine name? my evidence suggests yes, El is a divine name. You have also committed the red herring fallacy by bringing up the Bible as a book of progressive revelation. However my quotation from the Bible restrains the topic from going elsewhere. The subject is not how man came out of the darkness into a new light or G-ds nature and mistakes with Him repenting from sins and drinking wine as the Bible says. You have tried this before even entering this discussion about the moon god. First you tried to take me to square five and knock me there. Talking about the authenticity of the Bible or the Qur’aan could have been discussed if I had followed your red herring, however you would have only jumped back to square one to claim that Allah is a moon god. Therefore I have structured this to debate about Allah, then Muhammad and then the Qur’aan, but once again you want to speak about the Bible! And we haven’t even finished speaking about the topic here! Hoooooold your hoarses, we can discuss the Bible all in due course. Firstly, I will repeat myself again. Al ilah is a generic term in which a person can apply to his own particular deity whilst Allah is a proper name for the true universal G-d! al ilah has been applied to false gods and even the Qur’aan refers to a false god as ilah. But none as Allah! Allah is unique and I present the following evidence to prove this: “It will be useful to point out here, however, that there is nothing unique about the word Allah, nor must it be regarded as coming originally from the pages of the Qur'an. On the contrary it is quite clearly derived from the Syriac word Alaha (meaning "God") in common use among Christians in pre-Islamic times (cf. the authorities cited by Jeffery in The Foreign Vocabulary of the Qur'an, p.66)...” (Chapter 6 Textual History of The Qur’an & The Bible). The site “Answering Islam” confirms this saying: “It seems unlikely that the name Allah comes from al-ilaah "the God", but rather from the Aramaic/Syriac alaha, meaning 'God' or 'the God'. The final 'a' in the name alaha was originally the definite article 'the' and is regularly dropped when Syriac words and names are borrowed into Arabic. Middle-eastern Christianity used 'alah' and 'alaha' frequently, and it would have often been heard. But in the Aramaic/Syriac language there are two different 'a' vowels, one rather like the 'a' in English 'hat' and the other more like the vowel in 'ought'. In the case of 'alah', the first vowel was like 'hat' and the second like 'ought'. Arabic does not have a vowel like the one in 'ought', but it seems to have borrowed this vowel along with the word 'alah'. If you know Arabic, then you know that the second vowel in 'Allah' is unique; it occurs only in that one word in Arabic. Scholars believe that Jesus spoke mostly Aramaic, although sometimes he spoke Hebrew and he might have spoken Greek on some occasions. If Jesus spoke Aramaic, then he referred to God using basically the same word that is used in Arabic. (www.Answering-Islam.org) Secondly Allah has never been used as the name for a moon god and you bear the burden of proof. Moreover, there are no ‘Arabic inscriptions found in any moon god temple which even suggest Allah is a moon god. You will have to go and dig up the past to show me “hard evidence” for your claim to be true. The science of archaeology plays and all important role her, since the evidence is none. Allah was never the moon god. The Jews refused to say what? So you are telling me that they used a “pagan” name in reference to G-d? when the Tanakh clearly states that they must not utter the name of any false god upon their tongue (Bible, Exodus 23:13) this only leaves one possible conclusion! That El was a proper divine name for the one G-d. Ad-hominems do not guarantee you a defeat, in fact they only expose the weakness of your argument. Back to you. |
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