Abortion Memorial ServiceBabies in Hell?Hi, Sophie. I'm not saying He is a pragmatist - you are accusing me of saying that. I am simply saying that God is just and He must punish sin. He cannot accept sin into His heaven, right? Well, if a baby has a sin nature (I'll get to that later), then how can it be accepted into heaven unless God choses to apply His righteousness to it? Christ's death can be construed as a total waste of time for everyone who does not get saved, regardless of their age- why would God even create you if He knows that you'll end up in hell? But we know that it was not a waste, because through His death, some will come to repentance. No, Jesus is eternal God who must receive glory. It's not that His needs needed to be met. It's that He is God and He is just in making sure that even the unrighteous deeds of the wicked will be used to bring Him glory. Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. No one gets to heaven by default. And no one in this thread has shown me any Scripture that says otherwise. Irrelevant. A baby that dies and goes to hell has not lost anything more than a 99 year old man who dies and goes to hell. They both spend an eternity in hell. And again I ask: Where's the Scripture that says this? I don't care what you feel or how you think, logically, that God should act. I only want proof from the Bible. And I have yet to see it. Wow. You hear this all the time? I've been around. I go to a pretty conservative church. But I can count on one hand, probably, the number of times I've heard anyone say this. "Unjust" according to who? You? Thankfully, I know that what is truth is revealed in His Word. And I can rely on it even if it seems unjust in my eyes because I know that God is bigger than I am, and He has a sovereign plan. Interpretation? I've at least posted some Scripture that can be interpreted. No one else has. All I've gotten in response to the verses I post is "But God wouldn't do that, I just know it. It wouldn't make sense for Him to do that." I'm not saying He's cruel. I'm saying He's just. Sin must be punished, and He punishes it. How is that cruel? God is no respecter of persons, remember? Doesn't matter who you are or how old you are, if you're guilty of sin, then you deserve to be punished. I never said it did. I never said this either. Christ's death would have been just as meaningful if those babies had not been killed. The reason they were killed is that Satan tried to stop the fulfillment of the law by moving Herod to try to kill Jesus. I agree. You seem to be forgetting that Jesus said "No man comes to the Father but by me." So you don't believe in a sin nature? The fact that we are all conceived in sin, and that everything we do is stained by sin? Tell me what you think about these verses:
The "concept invented by an empire..." that you are thinking of is the teaching of the Roman Catholic Church that Mary was born without original sin because this is the only way shoe could have given birth to Jesus, a perfect man. The heresy of the RCC is not at all what I'm pedalling here. I don't. I don't. I don't. As I already said, Herod's actions were not from God. They were an attempt by Satan to ruin God's plan of salvation. I completely agree. I never said that they weren't. And I never said that children who are killed are accountable for their own deaths. What I am saying, however, is that they are guilty of sin. Not the sin of their own murder, but the sin which has been passed down to everyone from Adam. They are guilty of this and deserve punishment just like you and I, unless God applies His righteousness to them. Do me a favor. Go back and read the rest of this thread. Make note of all the times that anyone has used any Scripture at all to prove that babies automatically go to heaven. When you're done compliling that list, look over it a couple of times. You should notice that it's blank. That is the point of this thread. I want Scripture that proves me wrong, not a feel-good post that says "God just wouldn't do that." To date, that's all I've gotten. You can make those arguments all day long, but you will not change my mind unless you show me some verses. I'm begging you, please find a verse. I really don't like the idea of babies going to hell anymore than you do, but unless the Bible says they go to heaven by default, then I can't believe it. Thus the only other option is that they are accountable to God for their sin nature, and must face punishment just the same as we do. |
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