Hello Brad!
BradtheImpaler wrote:As per the illustration, each line is sub-ordinate, in a sense, to the whole triangle, which is what I think you mean? Of course, per the labelling of each line, this is incorrect because the Father is not sub-ordinate to anyone or anything, but that is another point (for later perhaps) which will also prove your concept is incorrect.
When I said subordinate, I was not referring to inferiority or to be less equal. If that was the case then therefore the lines were to be less equal also. Subordinate in duties, i.e, compliant with each other. The Son willingly submitted to the Father at the incarnation, the Father was compliant. The Son willingly on His own decided to lay down His life, the Father was compliant.
BradtheImpaler wrote:I'm not sure you can draw a realistic distinction between "seperate" and "seperated" but if I understand where you're going you're just trying to say "one is not the other but they are CONNECTED?"
Hold that thought!
BradtheImpaler wrote:3 Gods which are somehow connected. The reason being if each person is a distinct self- consciousness (and without a distinct self-consciousness they wouldn't each be "persons") then each person is an INDIVIDUAL GOD. It doesn't matter that you call all 3 "one God", you can call anything ANYTHING you want. The reality is that a self-conscious person, who is deity, is "a god/God" - ONE god/God", AUTOMATICALLY. Once you have a person, and that person is a person in and of himself, and that person is not any other person BUT himself, you have ONE BEING already. If that being is deity/divine, that being is a god/God.
OK, I guess one line can represent Brad, the other me and the other Aineo, link them together as a Triangle, are we one? We are separated, not equal, not of the same essence. Read the quote which I posted, the Son describes that He is never alone and that the Father is always with Him and within Him, can you say the same for distinct persons here on Earth or elsewhere? That is the very reason why I quoted those particular verses!
BradtheImpaler wrote:What you're doing is DESCRIBING, in effect, what would be 3 GODS in any theology, then saying they equal one God all together. So your understanding of what this one God is, is just the SUM OF ALL DEITY THAT EXISTS. But to the ancient Greeks and Romans, the "sum of all deity that (in their minds) existed" was their MANY gods, which would certainly be also described as (divine) "persons".
This is what I have been trying to get across to you - the "monotheism" of the doctrine of the Trinity is no different, in reality, from polytheism everywhere else, except you're using the term "God" differently. Your "Godhead" (sum of deity) contains "multiple persons" - pagan religion's Godhead (sum of deity) contains "multiple persons".
Multiple persons who are -
a) deity
and...
b) NOT one another
is MORE THAN ONE GOD, which is polytheism.
If you give a child castor oil, and tell them it's honey, does that MAKE it honey? Would that make it taste sweeter? Your label "one God" is no different, in ESSENCE, than MORE than one God - you're just using the word God differently.
If there is more than one God then there is more than One TRIANGLE!
According to your logic, each line is a god in itself.
Each line is not a separate God. The Triangle is God, the lines which are distinct represent the One Triangle.
- The Father represents the One God
- The Son represents the One God
- The Holy Spirit represents the One God
- The 1st line represents the One Triangle
- The 2nd line represents the One Triangle
- The 3rd line represents the One Triangle
However each are distinct!
BradtheImpaler wrote:Even better. Now you have proven my point by using the SAME TERM (rope/ropes) in this analogy. The "one God" ("united rope") is REALLY 3 ROPES TWINED TOGETHER. So individually each one IS STILL ONE ROPE. Follow your own logic (cause you've got it right this time!)
3 ropes = one (united) rope
3 Gods = one (united) God
But the 3 are ALREADY GODS BY THEMSELVES, WHICH IS POLYTHEISM. You have 3 Gods equalling a "corporate" God.
Did it ever occur to you that all other gods or pagan gods are all of demonic origin? And that some claim to be Triune to distort the image of the True God! Satan himself and all his fallen flunkies know full well that God is triune, inventing false triune gods is an easy method for the enemy to link the True triune God to polytheism. Keep in mind that there is only ONE TRIUNE GOD, all other gods are created and are travesties!
Now using your method of logic, if a husband who is "One" flesh and his wife is "One" flesh, how many does that make?
Matthew 19:5 - And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?
And since Jesus stated that two would become "One" Flesh, would you say that His logic is flawed??
Re-examine these verse by Paul:
- 1 Corinthians 10:17 - For we being many are one{heis]bread, and one{heis}body: for we are all partakers of that one bread.
- John 11:52 - And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one{heis} the children of God that were scattered abroad.
- Acts 23:6 - But when Paul perceived that the one{heis}part were Sadducees, and the other Pharisees, he cried out in the council, Men and brethren, I am a Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee: of the hope and resurrection of the dead I am called in question.
- 1 Corinthians 6:16 - What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one{heis}body? for two, saith he, shall be one{heis}flesh.
- 1 Corinthians 12:14 - For the body is not one{heis}member, but many.
- Romans 12:4 - For as we have many members in one{heis}body, and all members have not the same office: and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
- Acts 28:25 - And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one{heis}word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers,PAUL SPOKE JUST ONE WORD?
- 1 Corinthians 12:13 - For by one{heis}Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one{heis}Spirit. SPIRIT OF TRUTH!
Corinthians 12:20 - But now are they many members, yet but one body. (THERE ARE THEE MEMBERS OF THE GODHEAD, YET ONE GOD! )
Now would it be such an impossibility to realize the God being bonded as Father, Son and Holy Spirit in Absolute Unity
(Uncreated)??? Even when Paul goes to extreme to define the True meaning of One?
The Bible is called the "Word of God" and as the Word of God states, the word is God! Now I am not saying that the Bible is God. Since God is Spirit, He can be understood and revealed by His words. Paul who authored that which is "God-Breathed" made strenuous efforts to reveal God as in Unity and not in number, how you still fail to see it somehow remains a mystery.
Furthermore the Scriptures can explain in much clarity the Deity of Christ and the Distinction from the Father thus proving a Triune God, however for some reason unbeknownst to some, you will not allow me to do so!
God Bless!