Christian/Muslim ThreadsTrinity ~ God is One not 3!Dear servyn45, kingzson and hisway, May I Amadeus? Sorry my friends I hate to say this to both you and hisway, but both of you lack spiritual sight. I say this in TRUTH not in harsh criticism. I have presented common sense that even a 5 year old can understand. You have been refuted clearly over and over again and have not answered any of my numerous refutations that clearly prove your doctrine as erroneous. Jesus was always the Son of God, The Father was always the Father of Jesus and the Holy Spirit was always the Holy Spirit. I AM THAT I AM. I am not the one who stated that the Father became the Son, you did! YHVH is not what will be, YHVH always was as I demonstrated. If only you knew and understood how frustrated I am because of your lack of comprehension after all that I have presented to you. You are leaning on your own understanding.
Before you call Trinitarians Blind, let me show you how well you see my friend. You state that the Son did not exist until He was conceived by Mary correct?
John 17:5 - And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. Is the Spirit of the Father going to commit His own Spirit unto Himself??? Unless your trying to say that Jesus had two spirits? Do you not see how ridiculous this sounds? For the fourth time I mentioned, God is not the author of Confusion. I present to you common sense and those who have common sense can clearly see this, unless you WILLFULLY want to reject that which is True, humility plays an important role here. The whole process of becoming wiser is to admit your errors and be willing to be corrected. According to you , Jesus the Son had no pre-existence before the virgin birth and that is what you said. God is the only one that is capable of sanctifying, and if the praying human Jesus claimed that He was going to sanctify HIMSELF then you have a HUGE contradiction in itself. And where did the Holy Spirit come from? If you claim that the Father changed into the Holy Spirit then we have another gigantic problem here, why? because the Scripture clearly stated that the Son will sned the Holy Spirit who proceeds from the Father.
Look at this verse very carefully, How is it possible that Jesus can sit down with the Father on His throne if Jesus somehow shifted modes and then became the Father? In the above passage it states CLEARLY that we will also sit down with Jesus just as Jesus sat down with His Father, do you see whats going on here? So according to you this will mean that we will also change modes and become Jesus correct? If you cannot see this then I have no further comments.
How is it possible that Jesus could take something out of Gods Hand if Jesus IS the same person as God??? Now don't get me wrong here, Jesus is Indeed God, He is God the Son and not the Father. You fail to see the Beauty in TRUE UNITY which is not in number. Also if you examine carefully that the above passage states that the Lamb stood while the Father was sitting on His throne. Do you not SEE two distinct beings pictured here? If God is a One personal being than that would mean that the Father is a person and so is the son and so is the Holy Spirit. Now if you are to say that thes are but modes or different titles then that would mean that the one who is in that particular mode is a person correct? So that would mean that each time one of these would appear, the they would have to be a person correct? This would mean that when the Father would appear he is that person who is God correct? and when the Son comes into appearance then He is that person correct? So according to your Modalism doctrine, if all three would appear at the same time then that would make three persons!!! That is not my point however, I am merely pointing out Crystal Clear flaws in the false doctrine that many Modalists teach today. If He is God the Father in the Flesh as the role of a son then how is it possible that Jesus can be God the Father on earth and still speak to God the Father who is in heaven? In laymens terms Jesus had a split personality. What oneness adherents fail to realize is that they are making God schizoid which is not very polite. And as I stated earlier that in this verse even Jesus Himself is describing the True meaning of One as not in number but in UNITY: SEE for yourselves! Mark 12:32 - And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is (one) God; and there is none other but he: Mark 12:32 - And{kai} the scribe{grammateus}said{epo}unto him{autos}, Well{kalos}, Master{didaskalos}, thou hast said{epo} the{epi} truth{aletheia}: for{hoti} there is{esti} (one){heis} God{theos}; and{kai} there is{esti} none{ou} other{allos} but{plen} he{autos}: John 17:23 - I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in (one); and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me. John 17:23 - I{ego} in{en} them{autos}, and{kai} thou{su} in{en} me{emoi}, that{hina} they may be{o} made perfect{teleioo} in{eis} (one){heis}; and{kai} that{hina} the world{kosmos} may know{ginosko} that{hoti} thou{su} hast sent{apostello} me{me}, and{kai} hast loved{agapao} them{autos}, as{kathos} thou hast loved{agapao} me{eme}. Do you or do you not see what Jesus means by UNITY AND ONENESS? On that day when you dwell in Heaven, you will feel as you are actually Truly one with me and the others, almost as if your spirit is within mines. However we will all be separate but in UNITY which is not numerical.
Please explain to me that if the Father became the Son by switching roles then how is it possible that the (Sons) Throne endures forever??? Do you know what baptism of the Holy Spirit means? A little child can speak in tongues and so can I! So why do I disagree with you? I can assure you that I am more closer to God than you think I am. And am absolutely certain that you are mislead. Even the demons will tell you this, if they could. You have been indoctrinated and programmed by the pentecostal church and their teachings have been sown within you. Do you know what He tells me about you? He is telling me that you are trying to substantiate your theory of modalism by claiming evidence of Baptism of the Holy Spirit, and that you are only deceiving yourself by that comment. Do you how many times elders have layed their hands on me and prayed in the Spirit to baptize me in the Spirit? I say unto you that this does not give me the right to state that yuo are incorrect, SCRIPTURES DO! And the Scriptures prove over and over again that you are incorrect. It is failure to submit to the Truth and striving against it that is blocking you from seeing clearly. The Scripture state that one should NOT STRIVE against the Holy Spirit. DO NOT BE DECEIVED! I say this to you in Love and Concern. I challenge you to pray to God and see for yourself if you are indeed striving against the Truth and if you are a Christian which I'm quite sure that you are, then you will then see that you indeed are. Who really is trying to take away your crown? Let us see if you have learned from this as of yet my friend, ok?
Firstly the word "name" in Greek is onoma which is used 228 times in the New Testament, and it means authority or character and also refers to ones nature. The name is referring to all the 3 Eternal persons stated that all share in the same exact nature, i.e God. Now here lies the error of your Modalism theology, if you are to say that the name being singular is to point out that all three are the ONE GOD, then you have another serious problem here my friends, why? If all three are one person as as you claim they are then why is it necessary to mention all three(The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit), if there is only one person that exists? Do you understand what I am coming from here? So according to yuo and all other modalist adherents, if the three do not really exist simultaneously as individual persons then are we to be baptized into a role that God plays only for a period of time??? So if God is one person at a time then please explain to me why is it necessary to mention the different roles at the same time? If you read the verse very carefully you will notice that it does not say to baptize them in my name but in "The Name" do you not see the Unity here? This is True Unity in beauty and harmony. Unity is better as one being who is one person in itself OR many person who are in Absolute unity and essence? Which is GREATER?
So according to you and other modalists, and I DARE SAY, if Jesus is not a distinct person, then His witness is FALSE! Jesus crystal clearly says that His Father in Heaven bears witness to Jesus on earth. And now if you are to say that 1st witness is the divine spirit of Jesus and that the 2nd witness was the human spirit of Jesus then Jesus would have a personality disorder, now don't get me wrong here, I love God with all my heart, strength, soul and mind and I am merely demonstrating how Ridiculous modalist theology Truly is, claiming to know God as One and not three Eternal persons does not make them closer to God but shows that they do not understand the sheer Beauty of the Unity and oneness of God. I have known MANY of my friend who believed firmly what you believe because it is what they were indoctrinate with as a child or early in their faith, but a closer walk with God and prayer revealed that they were mislead, the amalgamation of prayer, scriptural proofs and continually seeking a closer relationship with the LORD proved otherwise. Now back on recourse. Jesus always claimed that He was on Earth while the Father was in Heaven! So in other words, Jesus the Son and the Father were in Fact in 2 separate places. Do you understand where I am coming from?
Now who was manifested? If the Son is the Father then it would read"The Father was manifested" Now also lets take a look at this famous passage in Scripture: en arche en ho logos kai ho logos en pros ton theon kai theos en ho logos. Now please explain to me how is it that if the Father became the Son that the Word{Lovgos}was WITH Him in the begninning? I quite sure that beginning is a clear reference to before the virgin birth don't you agree?
I assume that you believe that it was the Spirit of the Father that was in Jesus correct? And if He is also fully Human then He would also have to have a human Spirit correct? And if not then He is not Fully Human, furthermore if it is the Fathers Spirit in the Human Body because the Father is "IN HIM" then we have another serious problem that shows common logic and that common sense is not applied to those who deny this example:If I go to have dinner with you, do I become the dinner? because I am in you??? God revealed Himself to us in 3 Eternal Persons. The Father is God and is not begotten, Jesus is God begotten of the Father is and was the Son of God from eternity that have clothed Himself in the human flesh. Jesus Christ died and was reseurrected in the same body and now sits at the right hand of God the Father until He returns at His second coming. The Holy Spirit is also God and God are all different personalities which share in the same essence and Unity of the uncreated eternal spirit. Jesus came not to confuse us but plainly spoke of His Eternal Relationship with the Father From Eternity past. 2 Corinthians 11:3 - But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the (simplicity) that is in Christ. Take Care all of you! God Bless! |
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