H2O wrote:
And what makes you think that the YANKIES or the GRINGOS or the PALE FACE or the MODERN AMERICAN CHRISTIAN can?
Didn't you read what I said? I am not white, I have nothing to do with the propaganda you speak of, and I have never said anything about any yankee.
I read perfectly what you said. In my statement I didnt just mention Yankies but also MODERN AMERICAN CHRISTIAN . The purpose of that is such information is stemed from them.
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Arab Chrisitans are more closer to their history and heritiage than white Americans are to their own.
It is amazing that they can't offer up any evidence other than the doubtful inscription you have mentioned. Had there been any solid evidence, do you think they would not offer it up? Why do they have to settle for dubious claims?
ANd the Modern American Christians cant seem to come clean either
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Using what they have been givin them ? Imagine that, but you all cannot , and if you all were so sure of that, produce the proof of the Arabic name they used to refer to G-D in the arabic language prior to islam.
The problem is that there is no evidence to indicate for or against. I said that I am doubtful, I never claimed that I had certainty! He who claims certainty must be because he has proof; so let me see the real evidence! Don't offer up dubious information, that can't even be verified
Well, then if either sides according to you dont have proof then why should American Christians elaborate on something that has no water to hold ?
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You heard it your self what the Christian Arab said about finding the name inscribed on Arab Christian homes dating before islam.
I haven't heard anything. So far, that is some information you haven't even verified. Why has it not been verified?
Remember what I said at the very top of the post:
I found the below so I went chasing after this new discovery and will soon get a hold of Mr Pecerillo
I know what I believe in, the thing is to produce the evidence correct, thats what I am in my Journey to do, wanna come with me ? Anyhow, So what you are saying is that their testamony isnt good enough then thats good to hear
hope you apply this to scrible of what other Christians say against islam.
There is no "heat" coming from no one. It isn't like we are calling them to be in defiance of God or anything of that sort. It is simple discussion.
O really ? Have you ever heard of Chick Pulbications ? You know these little cartoon books being passed around ? Well they had one being passed around one day about the moon god theory and they was urging that Chrisitians who are not Arabs to convince Arab speaking Christians to give up the Use of the name Allah to save them from hell
. If you havent read this propaganda I am sure there are plenty of other Christians in here that know what I am talking about.
In fact, Jesus himself bore the name, for Jesus' name is Yeh'Oshua which is Yehovah Saves, or Yehovah's Salvation
Again, Just like you said you need to show proof. Please show our audience where in the world is the name Yhwh in the Yeshu or its clasical hebrew form "Yeshuah". You have to start from the root of this word and explain where is the word Yhwh at in that name or even its particle form.
And that is why Jesus' name is also setup above all other names, because it bears the name of the Father, as He also said to Moses, "My name is in him." (Ex 23:21)
Is that right, from my understading where there not other people with the same simular name in his time and even before ?
Islam uses the word Allah to refer to God, how do you expect them to refer to him? The thing we are arguing here is whether or not the word Allah is the proper name for God, or not.
Hmm, it was a name that they related to and that they undertood that coincided with their theological beliefs.
This is circular reasoning. The Quran gave the name Allah, so you can't say that the Arab Christians used it, simply because the Quran uses it.
You must have forgotten the other verse I posted with it:
..those who were brought out from their homes unjustly except that they said: "Our Lord is Allah ! " And if Allah did not set some people above others Monastaries, Churches, Synogogues, and Mosques would have been demolished in which Allah's name is being mentioned much....(22:40)
In which I elaborated on :
The verse (22:40) from the Quran makes it clear that the name Allah was being used By the Arabic Speaking Christians and Jews. Pay close attention to the phrase "....those who were brought out from their homes unjustly except that they said: "Our Lord is Allah ! "..." Those where the first band of Muslims who renounced the idol worship of the pagans and declaired their Lord was Allah in which they were persecuited for in which they were expelled from their homes. Some moon god theory that is if Allah was suppose to be an idol that was the supreme deity to the pagans who persecuited those cause they say Allah is their Lord.
The same anomosity shown towards the Muslims by the pagans was the same anomosity held towards the Jews and Christians "....And if Allah did not set some people above others Monastaries, Churches, Synogogues, and Mosques would have been demolished in which Allah's name is being mentioned much..."
Now to the last and most interesting part you so boldly brought forth:
Here is what one of your fellows writes on the subject of Al-ilah:
The `Arabic term "Allah" is a combination of two words, "Al" (ال) and "ilah" (إله). "Al" is the definite article in Arabic. Semitic linguists believe that the original root definite article of all Semitic languages was "Hal." With Hebrew it evolved as "Ha" and Arabic as "Al." Though it is not written as a letter in the Hebrew language the first consonant of the word following "the" (ה) in Hebrew is doubled just as is done by the "Lam" (ل) in the `Arabic "Al" (ال) when it precedes certain letters.
The second word is "ilah." This means "divinity" or "god." But "ilah" is not definite. It can be made feminine (إلاهة), it can be made plural (آلهة) and thus does not always convey the absoluteness of THE ONE God. So accordingly, when speaking of THE One God of Monotheism, the Qur'an says "Al-ilah" (الإله) which is conjugated into "Allah" (الله).
http://www.taliyah.org/articles/moses.shtml
I would love to debate with that brother, as a matter of fact I have incounted many of them with this view in which they now reject. Now where is his proof where is his quote to an
Arabic Lexicons. You where skeptical about what another christian said that doesnt befit you, but why are you not skeptical about this information that you introduced by a Muslim who obviously does not understand Arabic. Now here is a counter attack against such heretical concepts with sound knowledge of Arabic.
“Alllaah”
Not a contraction
The English customary spelling “Allah” syllable as “al - lah” in English dictionaries and encyclopedias has often been misrepresented as to its etymology or nature of the word without any Arabic authoritive sources such as Arabic Dictionaries, Lexicons, or Arabic Scholars them selves.
Due to its English customary spelling it is often viewed by western writers that the English transliterated letters “a,l,l,a,h” are a contraction of two Arabic words based on a linguistical prestige (in English not Arabic). Thus being ignorant of the fact, and the language it self, that the second “L” in Arabic script called “laam” is a double consonant letter.
The first two letters “al” is perceived as the definite article (the), and the three following letters “laah” ( sometimes rendered in English as “lah” ) is the contracted Arabic word “ilaah (deity)” where the weak radical “a”, in Arabic called “alif” - pronounced as an “i” in “ilaah”, is dropped for a contraction.
Example
1) al ilah (the deity)
2) al lah
3) al-lah
4) Allah
Based on this western hypothesis, and its manipulative fraudulent philosophy which is misleading, the word is assumed to mean ‘the god’ or ‘the deity’ denoting the supreme deity out of others as the main one. The double consonant “L”(laam) in the original Arabic has been edited in English exegesis of the word as a single consonant giving it a linguistical prestige in English as an
“al ilah” contraction. This reason because, the double consonant “L”, which would be properly spelled with three L’s(Alllah) serves no purpose in English as it does in Arabic. If the customary English spelling of the name it self is transliterated back into Arabic it would spell “ alif, laam, laam, fatah, ha” reading “allah(a)” (Note: This word in Arabic has NO article) which would be a different word in Arabic meaning “Deification” whereas the name in its original Arabic is spelled as “alif, laam, laam, laam, alif maqsoorah, ha’a” reading “alllaah”. On the other hand, a contraction of the words “al-ilah” is not possible in the Arabic language because the grammar behind it does no permit it as will be shown in the reality of the words in their original language which have been manipulated in English.
In The Arabic language when the second radical letter of a word is doubled, by stressing it, it either enhances the word or changes its meaning all together. When the Arabic word “ilaah”(deity) is pronounced as “illaah” by stressing its second radical consonant “L” to double “ll” it changes the meaning from “deity” to “except him” where the “h” consonant is converted into a masculine suffix pronoun.
With the contraction theory of “al ilah” applied in Arabic, rather than in English, the second radical letter “L” in the Arabic word “ilaah” is doubled when the “i”(alif kasrah) is dropped to take the word “al” in order to contract “al” and “lah” in the Arabic language.
EXAMPLE
1) al ilaah
2) al-llaah
3) alllaah
Such an etymological contraction is not possible in the Arabic language in which the word would be meaningless therefore prohibited
http://www.geocities.com/uwas2001/Dunleep.htm
Also no where will you ever find in the Quran Allah refering to him self as "al-ilah". That title is no where to be found in the Quran other than its plural form al-ilahaat ~ The Gods used to refer to the pagan idols by the Makkan pagans. I think your muslim reference was stuck on the deep end of ignorance and making things up as he thought was such and such
So being that both do not Quote from Arabic Lexicon (I havent pulled those out yet, just waiting for someone to slip who is keeping an eye on me
) what does your skeptical mind tell you now ?
Also, since according to Muslims, 'ilah' is the term used for god, while allah is the term used for the Islamic god, to differentiate between it and the other gods, then why is this an exeption?
Also, if the term ilah is a term for 'god', then it is most definately NOT a name, but a title. Notice that in the New Testament, we do use Theos, which is NOT the name of Yehovah, but it means 'god' -- which is a title.
According to Muslims ? Which muslims ? Hmm let me see if what you are saying is correct lets look at some arabic words :
"
Allah" properly spelled in Arabic "
Alllaah"
proper noun meaning "G-D the Almighty and Powerful ONE and Only Divine"
"
ilah"
common noun meaning "G-d"
"
aalih"
common noun meaning "g-d"
"
aalihaat"
common noun plural meaning "g-ds"
Edward Lane Arabic Lexicon
Page 37 Vol 1
((((
APPLE PIE WHY DONT YOU QUOTE ABDUL MANNAN OMAR'S DICTIONARY OF THE QURAN AND WHAT HE SAYS ABOUT THE NAME ALLAH FOR OUR AUDIENCE ))))
Mr Skeptical, Karaite, where are their proof ~ their Lexicons. You said it your self, you should be skeptical about your muslim source if they are giving accurate information or not even on their own religion.