Christian/Muslim ThreadsChauvinism and ReligionThe point I was trying to refute is the fact you claim that such violence was not based on religious beliefs but rather to be directed at “ensuring the sovereignty of the people from any human subservience”, when CLEARLY all references identifying the targets for Muslims to attack (whether it be Muslims in general or specific Muslims at a particular time – that’s besides the point) are according to whether one was a Jew, Christian, Pagan or in general as 9:123 says “disbelievers”. If you can accept that this is justified in your own good conscience then all I have to say is go compare this idea of justice with the idea of justice conveyed in the Bible verses I quoted concerning how faithful servants of God are to act in suppression, or under persecution. The verse explicitly says to fight them until they pay. Thus if one found the tax in itself unjust or for whatever reason felt that he didn’t want to pay it, he would be fought until he does – Allah’s justice. It's funny how Islam recquired violence as a means of "allowing the message to be spread". the holy apostles of Christ preached without a sword or weapon in their hands, they had the weapon of the Holy Spirit, and their message reached the ends of the world as it was prophesied. In fact all the apostles were martyred for their cause - without resistance. “Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven." The initial rises of Christianity and Islam reveal much about the religions themselves in my opinion. On the one hand, Christianity survived using nothing more than passive resistance to the Roman Empire until becoming the official church of Rome several hundred years later-an incredible, some would say miraculous, feat of not only survival, but success. Islam, through any twisting of words, stands in stark contrast to this. The story of Islam's rise is, shall we say, not as inspirational as that of Christianity. Mohammed's religion rose and spread because of conquest. Whatever missionary activity may have come later, Islam was safely entrenched in the Middle East because of Mohammed's military prowess, not his benevolent teachings or inspiring message. In any event, the precondition itself doesn’t get you off the hook, the eye for an eye precondition motif, is not the true compassionate and merciful God’s idea of how he would like us to behave. How can you compare this to the teachings and perfect values present in the verses I pasted in my previous post? There is no comparison, the God of the Bible makes the Allah of the Quran hang his head in shame. Vengeance is for the LORD and those who put their trust in him, Paul under the inspiration says it beautifully when he equates “loving the enemy, and overcoming their evil with good” with “heaping burning coals on their head” – Amen. Eye for an eye motif again… Christ: "You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.'But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.” May the Lord give me this perfect humbleness, and love – this is God’s true and incomparable teaching of how we are to handle such situations – what does earthly revenge mean in comparison to eternal bliss for our patience and obedience and trust to the Lord. Yes but Christ brought out God’s true intent of the Mosaic laws. If you don’t understand the true purpose and historical context regarding the Mosaic law, and if you don’t understand the fact the Mosaic law consists of civil laws (influenced by both environment and customs which do not apply today) and moral laws (some of which Christ expanded upon), then you don’t understand the purpose they serve today. Christ accused the Pharisees of losing sight of God’s true expectations of us, when they lost sight of the purpose of the civil law e.g. by substituting the importance of the washing of the hands with the washing of thei heart. Christ’s purpose was to emphasise what God truly expects of us – emphasisng spiritual aspects of our life that we are to take heed to, whilst "nullifying" the ritualistic aspects in the sense they have been symbolically fulfilled by his coming. E.g. Circumcision was a ritualistic aspect of the civil law of the Mosaic law, designed to set the children of Israel apart from other nations on the basis of their holiness. Christ’s coming however has given everyone the right to become holy in the eyes of God, Jews and gentile, and thus no physical mark distinguishes or sets apart anyone anymore, because God has made “all things clean”. Example of Christ fulfilling the Law: "Again, you have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘Do not break your oath, but keep the oaths you have made to the Lord.’ BUT I TELL YOU, Do not swear at all: either by heaven, for it is God's throne; or by the earth, for it is his footstool; "You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’ BUT I TELL YOU, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.” Matthew 5:38-42. So here Jesus is quoting some of the Mosaic Laws, and he is taking them a step further by completing and fulfilling the initial stages of such laws, he makes light of Gods true intent of these laws. Jesus said he didn’t come to abolish the law, so you might ask, isn’t Jesus in the above quotations abolishing the law and replacing them with his own teachings? On the contrary, these verses PROVE what Christ meant be fulfilling the law, he came to complete them and take them a step further. For example, in the Mosaic law – eye for an eye and tooth for a tooth was applicable form of the civil law. Now God is saying in simple turns “Ok I have let you live like this so far, but now at this stage I have come out of love to lay down my life for you, so the least you could do now is show one another a love like this, and turn the cheek”. He is fulfilling the law, by taking it a step further. Think of the Bible like a story, the Old testament is the early half of the story, and the New Testemant is the completion of that story. The context clearly shows that Christ fulfilled the Law and Prophets by exegeting them as God intended them to be exegeted. So do you have a historical account of how Jesus (pbuh) lived? Are you saying that he wasn't circumcised and that he ate swine? The Holy Bible Amen. Christ was circumcised yes, did he eat swine? Im not sure, I don’t recall the gospels mentioning anything specific concerning that. But His disciplies were accused by the Pharisees of breaking the civil aspect of the Mosaic laws by eating with unclean hands. Did Christ join the Pharisees and rebuke his disciples for acting against the Mosaic law on this issue? No. With the authority he speaks from the Father, the authority that prevails over Moses, he gave a beautiful sermon regarding God’s ideal for how we should live, and the vanity of worship. "Don't you see that nothing that enters a man from the outside can make him 'unclean'? For it doesn't go into his heart but into his stomach, and then out of his body." (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean.) Mark 7:18-19 Romans 7:16 "But now, by dying to what once bound us, WE HAVE BEEN RELEASED FROM THE LAW so that we SERVE IN THE NEW WAY OF THE SPIRIT, and NOT IN THE OLD WAY OF THE WRITTEN CODE." |
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